Mini 1516: Mafia in Space (Game Over)

[Wake1]

You could Scumhunt players using this time, SG, instead of coming in here when I'm questioning PA and calling it inane and whatnot.

When was the last time you questioned PA?

[Wake1]

*Mental notes in my head*

*"OK... so if PA flips Scum both Fitz and SG have tried to diminish my questioning of her..."*

[Squirrel Girl]

You could Scumhunt players using this time, SG, instead of coming in here when I'm questioning PA and calling it inane and whatnot.

When was the last time you questioned PA?

Friday November 29th.

[TvK]

@TvK

….do you have any completed scum games on this site?

No, sorry.

[havingfitz]

Mental note - Wake continues to flagrantly avoid questions directed at him.

[Wake1]

Actually, I'm getting ready to take care of a parking ticket.

[Garmr]

best scum game ever

Why are you providing additional information when you weren't asked for it? Unlike your post, my (1227) and (1229) were directly related to the fiasco that's soaked up much of my time. Your informational post, however, just came out of nowhere. Why?

Because I am a open book and I want people to have as much information on me as they can, plus I like to brag.

[ICEninja]

why would I be a NK target tonight? Why wouldn't scum make an attempt to hit the other mason? Especially if the Odd qualifier to my claim is accurate and I don't have a shot tonight?

Leaving me alive would only contribute to suspicions towards me and my claim. i.e. saying I am most likely the NK target tonight doesn't make much sense.

Because if they kill you tonight you cannot shoot tomorrow night. The last game where I was a vig, I died and brought a scum with me on a night I could shoot. It was a wonderful trade.

Wake sure is PR hunting today. First it was trying to get a claim out of Kid A and now asking people about setup speculation. Town does not benefit from this yet. Day 3 maybe when we've got a dead scum, a doctor that can confirm someone as town, and a mason who can claim, then we can take confirmed town to lylo. Right now if we out our PRs, then there's a good chance they'll all be dead and we'll end up taking suspicious VTs to lylo and that's a good way to lose.

I'm seeing a hell of a lot of scum motivation from you. If you're town, you're doing scum's job for them.

I don't want to contribute too much to the setup discussion but occasionally games that have a vig in them have a bulletproof scum in them.

Actually, I'm getting ready to take care of a parking ticket.

I've let it slip previously, but the number of "boo hoo me" posts are frequent, and feeling increasingly like AtE. Please stop it.

[Wake1]

We're in a 13-player game. How likely is it that we're dealing with a 3-member Scumgroup with Daytalk? I think it's unlikely, and that instead we're up against a 2-man team.

Or, we're dealing with 3 Scum + Daytalk... + a few more Town PRs?

In a 13 player game I always assume 3 mafia.  With a slight chance of an SK.  Though not sure how likely there would be a chance of an SK in a game with a vig as well.  So I don’t think there is an SK in this game.  Plus there would have potentially been even more kills.  So I would assume 3 mafia.  Not sure what impact daytalk would have on the set up but my assumption is, without knowing what PR’s scum might have, that it points to town having a bit more power.  Vig and masons is a good start.  IMO there is probably also either an investigative ability of some kind and a/or a protective ability of some kind (which could explain a failed night kill).  And that goes for either town or scum. 
 

Tl:dr;

Too many options to consider.
 

Fitz, yesterday you said you were an Odd-Night Vigilante. You claimed Herself's death, and only one person died last Night. How so? Do you think you could have been protected last Night, or that someone blocked Mafia? That would have had to have been the case, otherwise your claim is a downright lie.

How so?  How would I know?  Some possibilities that may have been mentioned already and which I’m sure you could imagine include:
 
- Mafia held off on their NK to implicate me
- Mafia’s shooter was JK’d or RB’d
- Mafia’s target was JK’d or Doc’d
- Mafia shot Herself also since they didn’t know for sure who I was targeting
- I was RB'd and Mafia shot Herself
- I’m fakeclaiming and there was only the potential for 1 nk all along
 

Why exactly, in your own words, did you decide to shoot Herself? ...and no, I'm afraid it wasn't pretty obvious that Herself was in your target pool.

Umm…I’m afraid it was pretty obvious that I suspected Herself.  I spelled this out to you in a response to a question from you and that was obvious to at least one other player (TvK).  And given my inclination as a Vig was to shoot who I suspected….that points to Herself.  Assuming I even got the chance to take my shot, I wasn’t going to waste it on a lurker or some unknown.  I wanted scum. 
 
You yourself said:

Herself wasn't my biggest Townread, and

I was surprised she flipped Town.

So my target should not be coming across as that unreasonable from at least your pov.
 

If Bard hadn't robbed us of time we may have gotten around to discussing your target. Undoubtedly there were reservations about your claim which may in part explain people's reluctance to discuss it, and as for the Masons it's extremely unlikely they'd have the inclination to poke their heads out of the earth and reveal themselves to the world of their own volition.

We will never know what the conversation may have led if TSB hadn’t essentially quick hammered himself.  I assume there would have been further discussion about Vig targets and like I said to someone…I would have been fine with providing a few names.  My only concern, after having already having had to reveal myself, was that if I gave an exact name…scum would have info they didn’t need to have.
 

What I can't seem to understand is why you didn't take your claim and ergo role more seriously, and didn't take the initiative to broach the subject of your target yourself while you had so much time to do so.

How does someone not take a claim seriously?   I claimed.  Look at my avatar…does that look un-serious?  And I take offense at your accusation that I am not taking my role seriously.  Everyone is different and has different opinions/suspicions/concerns.  Your thoughts might not be the same as mine (aside from the fact Herself’s flip surprised you) but no one is always right.  And what “so much time to do so” are you referring to?  TSB self-hammered less than 24 hours after I claimed and I made at least one post in that time that indicated my views on my targets.  What more did you expect in such

limited

time?
 

As Scum you likely felt you didn't have to, or need to. If I were the Vig, and found myself outed, I'd waste no effort in discussing the matters of the pool. You somehow lacked the initiative and the fire in your belly because it is you, Fitz, who is suspicious.

    
I did not have as much time as you would have everyone believe and the subject of my target had been broached. Unless I cared who others wanted me to target (which I did not)...how would I have acted differently?
 
Also…on the subject of my claim….I am perfectly capable of making a good claim.  I’ve been applauded for it before and my ability to fakeclaim has been instrumental in winning games before.  I know how to claim.  Point is, if I was scum working out a fakeclaim I can tell you my first option would not have been role that would result in me potentially outing myself the very first night.  I don’t know what my first option would have been since that wasn’t my train of thought but if I was scum…I would have known I would be under even more suspicion following a disparity in kills after N1.   I.e. Odd night Vig (or any Vig) would not have been it.
 

Fitz, please educate us all on how anyone who thought you weren't shooting anyone other than Herself and Garmr wasn't reading the game.

You said you might have a 2-3 player target pool, yet insinuate that people who didn't for sure know it was either Herself or Garmr were ignorant.

Because I spent most of D1 with my suspicions/my vote on Herself and when that was going nowhere…on Garmr.  That’s how.  Plus as shown in the links I provide earlier in this post wrt to a reply to you and from TvK.
 

You never made your targets obvious, and you squandered the time you had to discuss your targets.[/u] Although I don't think you've explicitly lied to me, my trust in you is shaken, Fitz. At the moment I have you in my Scum pile.

 
They should have been obvious to anyone who looked at my posting/voting history.  I find it hard to believe you are making my choice out to seem like it was not a given.  And less than 24 hours is not a lot of time.  It feels slightly misrepresentative of you to paint it as such.
 

Do you know what's really weird? Kid A's reaction to my vote on him Day 1.

Why?
 

---

Havingfitz

 

———✹

What does your gut tell you about who's Scum?

I still suspect Garmr but the fact I'm still here has me doubting that read. Plus, one quality post is not enough to “a town read” make.  As far as my list is concerned, he’s still on it.  The other two ATM on my mind are TvK and Kid.  Lol didn’t come to mind because they seem to have flaked…out of sight out of mind.  I haven’t voted anyone yet today because the day has just begun and I need to digest things.
 

I thought Kid A's vote there was understandable given the lack of two nightkills and

no claim of a kill at the time by Fitz

Given the fact I had claimed my kill at the time Kid voted me…and he still is.  I understand we both posted at the same time so he might not have seen my shot revelation but it would have been immediately obvious to him and nothing changed wrt his vote.  So is his remaining vote still understandable? 

Hm.

Did you explicitly say you were going to shoot Herself? Because if you didn't, then it wasn't perfectly obvious. And although you say you wanted Scum, you got a Mason.

You say your target shouldn't have come off as unreasonable to me, but that's not the point. The point is you saying it was obvious you were going to shoot her when you didn't outright say you would. It could very well be that you're Scum, sniffed out Herself as Mason, and the offed her while pretending to be an Odd-Night Vigilante... and apparently not really going out there and discussing your target of your own volition sort of fits in with all of that now doesn't it?

And no, you didn't take your role seriously. You, as an outed Town Vigilante, should have taken the initiative in discussing your role and target, but you didn't. You did have time before Bard killed himself. I expected more from you in that window of time. If I were in that situation I would have spared no expense generating discussion over who I should of killed, and could have done so within even one hour of time.

You would have generated discussion. It is not difficult, and I do it effortlessly. You could have done that. If I were Scum at L-1 I'd definitely claim as an Odd-Night Vigilante, because I can get at least one NK in and then look at the disparity in kills and say "oh well I don't know why."

Just because your suspicions and votes were on Herself does NOT mean we should all assume you were going to kill her Night 1. And you did have time. You can do a lot in even ONE hour. So no, if you're online, you can do a lot within 24 hours.

Kid A's reaction to my vote was weird, because he didn't respond to it at all. Like he pretended it didn't exist.

And who do you suspect the most as of now? I want to know your exact points as to why I'm Scum so that I can dismantle them.

Did I miss any questions? If I did please spare no expense pointing them out.

[Wake1]

best scum game ever

Why are you providing additional information when you weren't asked for it? Unlike your post, my (1227) and (1229) were directly related to the fiasco that's soaked up much of my time. Your informational post, however, just came out of nowhere. Why?

Because I am a open book and I want people to have as much information on me as they can, plus I like to brag.

...

Wake sure is PR hunting today. First it was trying to get a claim out of Kid A and now asking people about setup speculation. Town does not benefit from this yet. Day 3 maybe when we've got a dead scum, a doctor that can confirm someone as town, and a mason who can claim, then we can take confirmed town to lylo. Right now if we out our PRs, then there's a good chance they'll all be dead and we'll end up taking suspicious VTs to lylo and that's a good way to lose.

Actually, I'm getting ready to take care of a parking ticket.

I've let it slip previously, but the number of "boo hoo me" posts are frequent, and feeling increasingly like AtE. Please stop it.

Why does your post reek of dubious manipulation? It just sort of reminds me of the Mafioso who rubs his greasy hands together and utters "INDEED. YES.. HE SURE IS DOING THAT...," in response to some other discussion going on.

Oh yeah, and if I can't respond at that moment because I have to pay a parking ticket or whatever, I'm going to say so. Going to pay a parking ticket? AtE?

[TvK]

Kid A's reaction to my vote was weird, because he didn't respond to it at all. Like he pretended it didn't exist.

Kid A's only reaction to any vote on him was his "hi guys im not scum so it would be gr8 if everyone voting me unvotes me". What does that make him? Town or scum?

[Wake1]

Kid A's reaction to my vote was weird, because he didn't respond to it at all. Like he pretended it didn't exist.

Kid A's only reaction to any vote on him was his "hi guys im not scum so it would be gr8 if everyone voting me unvotes me". What does that make him? Town or scum?

...has anyone asked him how long he's been playing?

Because that answer of his smells of Newbie.

[Wake1]

TvK, since you're here...

...do you think going to go pay a parking ticket is an appeal to emotion?

That's a new one.

[Wake1]

Garmr and TvK, do you get the feeling that ICEninja is bringing stuff up to distract people and shift attention elsewhere?

...Ffery, if you're around here somewhere, please answer this question as well.

[Wake1]

Also…I find your vote on penguin a bit confusing.  Is if for poor grammar or word choice?

That's all you were able to discern from it?

[TvK]

TvK, since you're here...

...do you think going to go pay a parking ticket is an appeal to emotion?

That's a new one.

No, but unless we're 10 minutes from the end of the day, I don't think it's necessary to post it in here.

Garmr and TvK, do you get the feeling that ICEninja is bringing stuff up to distract people and shift attention elsewhere?

...Ffery, if you're around here somewhere, please answer this question as well.

No, I don't.

[Garmr]

Garmr and TvK, do you get the feeling that ICEninja is bringing stuff up to distract people and shift attention elsewhere?

...Ffery, if you're around here somewhere, please answer this question as well.

This is typical Town play from the Iceman judging from my last game with him it's also what I used to get him mislynched last game as well heu heu heu heu.

[fferyllt]

Garmr and TvK, do you get the feeling that ICEninja is bringing stuff up to distract people and shift attention elsewhere?

...Ffery, if you're around here somewhere, please answer this question as well.

No, I don't.

This is one of those irony moments because someone could easily make a case that you are doing this.


In other news, PA bugs me. Hence my asking Reg if he has experiential meta with her.

When you're around, Reg, I'd like to compare notes if you do have some past games with her.

[penguin_alien]

What bugs you? I'm in and out today, so hit me.

[fferyllt]

What bugs you? I'm in and out today, so hit me.

You seem to be all about the commentary rather than choosing to engage directly of your own volition.

[Wake1]

I'm going to keep modifying my gameplay.

Falcon, I'll be V/LA until 12/5/13. More LA than V.

[Squirrel Girl]

You seem to be all about the commentary rather than choosing to engage directly of your own volition.

I've played some games with Penguin, and currently her play feels to be more or less in line with what I expect. She isn't often the screaming leader of anything.

[penguin_alien]

What bugs you? I'm in and out today, so hit me.

You seem to be all about the commentary rather than choosing to engage directly of your own volition.

That's fair; I guess I'm trying to decide if Kid A or TvK makes more sense as scum and whether HF is on the up-and-up. As far as Kid A vs. TvK, I feel like the info is there. I like the people on the TvK wagon better, but I have more faith in being able to figure TvK out more later, as opposed to not being sure if we're going to get much of a content increase from Kid A.

fferyllt, what's your read on TvK after Wake88's case that TvK was a mason, given the anti-town nature of the case and the fact that mafia apparently have day talk? I'm trying to decide if scum-TvK would react like that if he had coaching available.

[penguin_alien]

Heh, 'not often a screaming leader' isn't the worst epithet to be left with.

[fferyllt]

You seem to be all about the commentary rather than choosing to engage directly of your own volition.

I've played some games with Penguin, and currently her play feels to be more or less in line with what I expect. She isn't often the screaming leader of anything.

She and I have a couple of recent games played on opposite sides. She replaced in to both games. In the one where she was town and I was scum, she came after me pretty quickly and pretty strongly IIRC. "Strongly" is relative, though. She's no kuribo (hi kuribo egosearch!).