Mini 1524: Olympian Gods Mafia - Game Over

[Wisdom]

She's distant from the game, comments only on specific things that could earn her some cred, doesn't get engaged in the more important discussions. I also think she would have been defending herself a little, especially with someone who knows her (mala) stating a confident scumread on her. Same goes for my scumread on her; I caught her in our last encounter, so I'd expect a "you're wrong this time" kind of post.

Her claim that she expected ooba to vote nacho doesn't make sense either, and I do think she makes more sense as town.

[Wisdom]

and I do think she makes more sense as town

Didn't word that correctly; I think she actually makes sense when town unlike here.

[Wisdom]

What is it you like about shos? Have you played with him before?

[Whiskers]

@whiskers
It's called meta, and for many of us it's a

primary scumhunting tool.

You'll have to deal with it.

That's stupid.

That's

so

stupid.

If it worked, it would take any fun in the game, out of the game.

Also, it's not consistent or reliable.

Also, it's

stupid

to rely on as your

PRIMARY SCUMHUNTING TOOL ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME??!

[Wisdom]

If we use it, it means it works for us.

[Wisdom]

Why such an overreaction anyway?

[Grimgroove]

What is it you like about shos? Have you played with him before?

I've played with him before yes.
What I like about shos in his catch-up is that he seems to be noticing the same things I do, without actually sheeping anyone. He's got a line of reasoning of his own. I've only seen him play as town though. He was scum in one game that I was in, but he could play easily according to his townmeta because there were several scumfactions, so he could scuimhunt like he normally would. That leads me to believe I haven't really seen his scumplay, but from what I've seen here I see no reason to believe that's what I'm looking at. I see the same town-shos I've seen before: half of his ISO are catch-ups, some arguments seem less relevant, some questions he asks already have been answered, but whenr eading it I see someone trying to figure things out and move things forward, without any bias and with lots of transparency.
I'll try to provide a concrete example of this using one of his catch-ups if you insist, but that's the gist of it.

[Wisdom]

scum-shos
catching up

I don't agree with you at all. shos is actually sheeping others' reads and try to give "original" reasons that aren't really original.
His read on Matt is completely stupid - a drop in activity is not alignment indicative, nor did he mention that scum-Matt is usually inactive.
His catchup walls are an element of his play, and are not indicative of town (see links above).
You actually seemed very confident in townreading shos in your last post, I thought you were still only leaning. That seemed a little off.

[Grimgroove]

What is it you like about shos? Have you played with him before?

I've played with him before yes.
What I like about shos in his catch-up is that he seems to be noticing the same things I do, without actually sheeping anyone. He's got a line of reasoning of his own. I've only seen him play as town though. He was scum in one game that I was in, but he could play easily according to his townmeta because there were several scumfactions, so he could scuimhunt like he normally would.

That leads me to believe I haven't really seen his scumplay, but from what I've seen here I see no reason to believe that's what I'm looking at.

I see the same town-shos I've seen before: half of his ISO are catch-ups, some arguments seem less relevant, some questions he asks already have been answered, but whenr eading it I see someone trying to figure things out and move things forward, without any bias and with lots of transparency.
I'll try to provide a concrete example of this using one of his catch-ups if you insist, but that's the gist of it.

[Grimgroove]

I'll check out those links.

[Grimgroove]

She's distant from the game, comments only on specific things that could earn her some cred, doesn't get engaged in the more important discussions.

I also think she would have been defending herself a little, especially with someone who knows her (mala) stating a confident scumread on her.

Same goes for my scumread on her; I caught her in our last encounter, so I'd expect a "you're wrong this time" kind of post.

Her claim that she expected ooba to vote nacho doesn't make sense either, and I do think she makes more sense as town.

My two cents:
The thing in italics I've seen PA do before as town.
The thing in bold is a stretch, I never read Malakittens' read as a confident scumread, given it was exclaimed after only two posts by PA. PA herself acknowledged considering that an RVS earlier on.
The thing I underlined would require town-PA to behave entirely according to certain expectations you have of her, which is understandable but I think this expectation was a bit too specific in order for it to be reasonable, let alone be an argument for PA-scum.

I've had to deal with certain expectations people have of me as well, and often found that it's the expectations themselves that were misguided in the first place.

The one thing that does bug me about PA is the lack of voting.

A lot has got to do with the bad impression Malakittens left on me from the start, and I haven't seen her do anything to shake that off. The fact she's pushing the PA-case makes me lose faith in it from the get-go.

[Wisdom]

It seems unreasonable to me; you've only seen town-shos, which means you don't know what scum-shos looks like. Why is your stance "That's town-shos" instead of "It kinda looks like town-shos, but since I haven't seen scum-shos, maybe it could be scum-shos"?

[Wisdom]

Ok, that's definitely weird. Since when do you shoot down my scumreads like this?

[Grimgroove]

It seems unreasonable to me; you've only seen town-shos, which means you don't know what scum-shos looks like. Why is your stance "That's town-shos" instead of "It kinda looks like town-shos, but since I haven't seen scum-shos, maybe it could be scum-shos"?

At first sight the links you showed do show the same shos I've seen as town. I'm not going to go into the details of that game and try to figure out which arguments he made in that catch-up are scummy, but that's obviously the essential part. Big catch-ups are the form and obviously null, but it's what is contained in them that should give you an idea (I hope) of what his alignment is.
I'll get that concrete example of a shos-wall in this game that I liked and state reasons why. Should give you something to work with.

[Wisdom]

This made no sense.
You're scum, Grim, eh?

[Wisdom]

I showed you you have shos as town for reasons that are completely null and you respond with "I'll show you shos catching up as town".
wtf? Did you even get my point? I KNOW he does it as town too, that's what I'm telling you, he does it as BOTH.
I have no need for you to show me that.

[Grimgroove]

Ok, that's definitely weird. Since when do you shoot down my scumreads like this?

If you're going to use meta, please use it well.
Legends of the Hidden Temple ring a bell?
Mainstream Mafia maybe?

[Wisdom]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Grim

[Grimgroove]

I showed you you have shos as town for reasons that are completely null and you respond with "I'll show you shos catching up as town".
wtf? Did you even get my point? I KNOW he does it as town too, that's what I'm telling you, he does it as BOTH.
I have no need for you to show me that.

I got your point. The point is that you didn't get my point.
My point is that shos' STYLE of catching up is obviously null, but that the CONTENT of said catch-ups probably aren't.
What I further said was that I am in no position to review shos' CONTENT in that other game as it would require too much effort. The only thing I could discern was the STYLE being the same.
What I proposed to do was show you why I liked the CONTENT of shos' posts here.

[Wisdom]

In those games you DISCUSSED reads with me, you weren't all "no your reads are wrong because this this and this".

I said "okay, he clearly does not know shos and penguin enough, thats why he doesnt see what I see" but clearly you don't care to see what I see, you just want to keep saying that they have to be town at all costs, being unreasonable in the process. You're not the town-Grim I know.

[Grimgroove]

Here we go again

[Wisdom]

show you why I liked the CONTENT of shos' posts here.

ok, do this

[Grimgroove]

In those games you DISCUSSED reads with me, you weren't all "no your reads are wrong because this this and this".

"no your reads are wrong because this this and this" = discussion
It's the exact same thing that has happened before.

I said "okay, he clearly does not know shos and penguin enough, thats why he doesnt see what I see" but clearly you don't care to see what I see, you just want to keep saying that they have to be town at all costs, being unreasonable in the process.

I simply provided reasons for my disagreement over your reads. You haven't even addressed them (not at all in PA's case, and you missed the point in shos' case). And you're calling me unreasonable?

You're not the town-Grim I know.

You're definitely the Wisdom-town I know. Hissyfits and jumping to conclusions.

I am NOT getting into a wall-war with you again, precisely for that reason. Someone else will have to talk sense into you.

[Wisdom]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: penguin

I simply provided reasons for my disagreement over your reads. You haven't even addressed them (not at all in PA's case, and you missed the point in shos' case). And you're calling me unreasonable?

Your reasons are bad. You basically said "no she does it as town, she could do that as town, it could happen if she was town". Clearly if I think she is scum, I think that the way she would do certain things as town would be different.

I'm back to thinking you just don't know her or shos enough.

[Wisdom]

The thing in bold is a stretch, I never read Malakittens' read as a confident scumread, given it was exclaimed after only two posts by PA. PA herself acknowledged considering that an RVS earlier on.

And this is wrong. Mala has stated recently she thinks this is peng-scum meta. All penguin had to say about it was 213, which is

shrugging the scumread off

instead of trying to interact with Mala.