Mini 1516: Mafia in Space (Game Over)

[fferyllt]

Do you think it's possible that eek was trying to stretch it to begin a wagon on me because he is scum.

I'm not ruling out the possibility that he's scum. I'm not ruling out the possibility that you are scum either.

It's day 3 and we've had 2 bad lynches so far. 4 town players down.

The player I feel most town about is RegFan because Empire had a rock solid read on him, comparable to the solidity of the read I had on Herself. I'm depending on Empire's parting words about what to look for as the game progresses if this is scum-reg. So far, I'm not seeing cause for concern.

It's after 2 am here. I'm going to have to wait until tomorrow to do some further digging and rereading.

[Garmr]

Eek that case you made is pretty weak and a awful big stretch aka the fake scum slip and I'm going to tell you in advance if your wagon goes anywhere near l-1 today i'm going to hammer it in heart beat if i'm not already on it.

It is not weak. And your little rebuttals you made Day 1 are worthless. Even though you think they're the pinnacle of any debate. You refuted nothing.

The scum slip, well honestly, it really feels like one, sue me. Of course, I could be wrong depending on what Wake has to say about his gambit preference (Wake?).


Here's what's bugging me about you garm:

1)

You're ready to hammer me. You're calling me scum. You're making threats about my hypothetical L-1 wagon. But, here's the thing. D2, you've been following me around like a puppy. I can link to posts and elaborate if you want me to but the gist of what happened between you and me is:

- I get on the Kid wagon
- You get on the kid wagon
- I get off the Kid wagon and onto the Wake wagon
- You get off the Kid wagon and onto the Wake wagon
- I get off the Wake wagon and onto the Kid wagon
- You get off the Wake wagon and onto the Kid wagon


This night 2 nightkill is very interesting. Not in the "who did they kill" way, but in the "what" way.

2)

My suspicion of you was put on a low fire, as we say in Dutch, during Day 2 and suddenly we became best friends: you agreed with the things I said, voted along with me and even joked around. I didn't get where that was coming from. I was even more confused by your mason posts (interesting things happened tonight with alien dying in that regard) so I didn't really know where to place you. But, as soon as I put you back under heat, you're back to suspecting me, trying to lynch me, nearly yelling (on my very own birthday )

Why are you so reactive in your scumreads? I vaguely remember the same situation happening before. I'd like to say this happened with TvK, where he suspected you, followed by you suspecting him, but I'm not sure. I should reread some parts.

Lol you center it all around yourself I was posting suspicions about kid A day 2 before you even made your first post day 2. Also I was in debate with wake for a while before you even commented on him. Before you say you voted wake when I did look again It was SG and ice arguments that convinced me pretty much to jump on the wake wagon.

Also I hammered my scum read and not liked you cared about the hammer anyway

That's L-1 iirc. Hammer away, anyone.

Also for two don't you read i was suspecting you before you even posted today

@fferylt
Well your probably not going to like my reads at the end of the day and looking back over over day 2 but if there was scum on that wagon it would be TvK and possibly Milked Eek. I still don't like the fact that wake was the only vote on penguin_alien and penguin alien died.

Also wtf is a scoop is that even a real role and does it come with icecream.

What you have is a selective memory and your taking shit out of context this lead me to smanuplative scum and that dutch fire is from a dutch oven because all that's comming from you is hot air and a bad smell.

[Garmr]

I mean manipulative. smanuplative loool

[fferyllt]

While I was indeed pushing hard for Kid A's lynch yesterday, I wasn't expecting the day to end

quite

so fast. I realize I partially share blame for Reg not being able to put down his last post, but that hammer was pretty sketchy.

I wasn't particularly expecting penguin to die last night. I guess scum caught some mason tell, I was guessing either ffery or Reg would have died should fitz have lived.

Now this brings me to an interesting point: why did scum shoot the probably mason instead of the claimed vig who will shoot tomorrow?
Here is what we do know:
-Fitz almost certainly made the shot on Herself night 1. Regardless if it was mafia shooting or vig shooting, we can be almost certain fitz was the one who shot.
-If fitz is a town vig, we very likely have one of [doctor, roleblocker, jailkeeper] within town's remaining ranks. Being that last night's kill for scum was certainly successful and night 1's scum kill looks dubious (depends on fitz's alignment) I'm guessing that town doesn't have a role blocker. We're probably looking at a doctor.
-Fitz gave his reads in this post. Scum could have used those reads to decide if they wanted to keep him around another day. If a vig is town or even null reading all the scum, it is actually in their best interest to keep him alive for one more bullet. 2 townies dying tonight would be disastrous, even if we lynch scum today.
-Fitz's role SHOULD be confirmable tonight but he is, at the moment, unconfirmed.

What I gather from this information is that fitz is slightly more likely to be scum having lived the night than he was day 1 FMPoV, however if he is indeed town then his scum reads are probably also town. If fitz dies tonight and flips town (he virtually has to die tonight if he is a vig, as his kill tonight will clear him beyond doubt in everyone's mind) then I'll more or less clear TvK and Wake based on that alone. There's no way in hell scum would have let fitz lived if they felt like he would probably shoot one of them tonight.

We can't lynch fitz today, though, as if he is town he's going to pull the bullet away from more useful players (or leave confirmed town alive, I'm cool with either honestly), and if he's scum we'll know more or less certainly by tomorrow and can happily speedlynch him.

Then, whoa. Wake's claim. 2 masons, an odd night vig, and one shot cop feels like a reasonable town strength, maybe a tad on the strong side (but could easily be balanced by day talk) so that seems to check. The wording, though, claiming "scope" is weird to me. I've never heard a cop called a scope here before, only cop and investigator. This leads me to believe that he doesn't actually have a role PM that says scope. Also, I've been pretty hardcore townreading Ffery and would find it hard to believe she's scum at this point. I've been wrong before, but even so. It is indeed very concerning, because Ffery scum implies that my reads all game have been wrong. I'll need to think more about this.

Wake if you are fake claiming, retract your claim

immediately

or I will go through lengths to ensure I never play with you again. I've never even once seen a VT claiming power role help town at all, and I've seen it cause unnecessary mislynches on no fewer than 2 (and probably more than that) occasions.

I probably fucked this post up, I'm tired as hell and didn't want to wait until the morning to catch up. As a result I don't have the energy to go through and review it for errors and idiocy like I normally do. I apologize if it isn't up to my usual standards of posting.

If fitz is the vig, then the fact that he's alive today makes me think that scum have a roleblocker. Otherwise they risk him getting an accurate shot off tonight.

[My Milked Eek]

@garm:
If you're always posting on someone before I have (which might technically be true, but I don't recall you making even the faintest case on Wake before I started on him and Kid A was going to be a wagon, even a blind man could see that coming), why have you always waited to vote until after I voted? It might be coincidental, but it's a pattern I noticed. Which can be tied back to the case I made D1: you sheep and you buddy.

That wagonhopping piece I summarized isn't about me, this is about you buddying up to whomever the majority of players find town. First SG, then me, now fferyllt. You're not bringing forth new things. You're here rehashing things town-looking players have said. Buddying up to them. I could not find a better example of buddying even if I spend months reading games.

If it isn't true:
What are your suspicions right now?

Let me guess; Me, for voting you and suspecting you, TvK, for being the obvious suspect of the day, and ...?

[My Milked Eek]

Also, you mention you were suspicious of me before I even posted today. I can't say I got that vibe.

Until, I voted you, that is.

[Garmr]

Between fferrylt which is less likely after the escapade and regafan. But to be honest I really don't mind getting mislynched at this point because it will be obvious that your scum.

[My Milked Eek]

Why would that be obvious?

The only thing you have against me is that I'm voting and suspecting you.

[Garmr]

eek I'm going to give you some advice. If you some how are town and you really are content on lynching me. I would put all your effort in getting me lynched today and not in mylo or lylo that's were i'm at my weakest. This way you won't fuck up town chances of winning.

[Garmr]

if you are*

[TvK]

Garmr needs rope v2.0

Garmr's read on Eek:

Day 1
1. Eek is scummy because he hasn't posted (same reasons why Garmr thought Orestes was scummy).
2. Eek is scum because he made a case on Garmr ("one of Fitz and Eek is scum, highly likely both"). However, Garmr has debunked it and torn it apart and even literally said. Despite this effort, Garmr still was the second biggest wagon at the end of day 2. To underline how much crap the case of Eek was, Garmr literally said "I also really can't be fucked being in a game where cases like eeks are considered semi decent. It was horrible and debunked with one post."
3. Fitz claims Vig. Eek is town for putting in effort to make a case instead of just jumping on Fitz. Garmr consideres himself a target for Fitz's nightkill (who knows why?). Garmr's main scumread now is TvK.
Day 2
1. Eek needs another look because his wagon (of 4 votes) dismantled too quickly.
2. Garmr likes Eek's case on Kid A (if one of them is scum, the other is town. Seeing that he put his vote on Kid A shortly afterward, he has to assume Kid A is scum and Eek is town).
3. Repeats point 2 again (and adds that the only suspicion he had of Eek was that his wagon dismantled too quiclkly).
4. Eek votes Wake and Garmr tries to follow him with a badly fabricated case of himself.
5. Garmr takes Eek's comment (hammer away) quite literally and hammers Kid A.
Day 3
1. Eek and TvK were the scum on Kid A's wagon.
2. Thinks Eek is twisting his words after his really hard to understand pun.
3. Once again, Eek's case is weak. Getting ready for more debunking. Informs everyone again how easily he debunked the last case on him.

I think Eek summarised this perfectly: if you suspect Garmr, you will be suspected by him.

Garmr's read on TvK

Day 1
1. TvK is nullscum.
2. TvK is null (could reach town with a little more effort).
3. Fitz claims Vig. Bard and TvK drop down to scum because of recent behavior. (To clarify, this behavior was not being on the Fitz wagon and voting Garmr at the time).
4. TvK is scum (one of the reasons being not going for Kid A that day, even though it was obvious that Garmr was my main scumread).
5. TvK is still scum, but Garmr rather votes Bard.
Day 2
1. Garmr points out that Regfan convinced him to get my wagon (a huge 2-vote wagon) over to a mislynch on Bard.
2. TvK is Garmr's strongest scumread, the second time even right above Kid A. Did Garmr simply forget to vote me? Or would he be too suspicious if he was the only one doing so.
3. Garmr starts to lean more towards Kid A, because TvK's posting has improved (I indeed had said nothing bad about Garmr for a bit, ergo my posting improved. Seriously, this is got to be the way he is thinking).
4. Garmr asks Eek what he would say if he said that TvK was a townread now.
5. Garmr apparently thought I was a Cop or something ("The theory revolved around you knowing I was town day 2 through certain night actions and being embarrassed as shit talking about me"). I go back to the scumlist for still finding Garmr scummy.
Day 3
1. TvK and Eek are Garmr's top scumreads.
2. Garmr votes TvK, because he feels I should have pushed him harder at the start of day 2.

What have we learned?
1. If you don't say anything (bad) about Garmr, you move up in his townlist. This works the other way around too.
2. If you are Garmr's top scumread, you practically never will have his vote on you.
3. Garmr's puns are incredibly hard to understand. Not understanding them equals misrepping.

If this is not the way scum plays, than I don't know at all how they do... Also, mind the fact that Garmr loves bragging about himself, and that he's constantly reminding us all of how brilliant his scum skills are. Why would town brag about their skills as scum in the game?

And finally the thing that absolutely bugged me most of all were his final two quotes:

But to be honest I really don't mind getting mislynched at this point because it will be obvious that your scum.

eek I'm going to give you some advice.

If you some how are town and you really are content on lynching me. I would put all your effort in getting me lynched today and not in mylo or lylo that's were i'm at my weakest

. This way you won't fuck up town chances of winning.

What. The. Fuck? Town has already mislynched twice this game. We are incredibly close to LyLo is mislynch again. How will it ever be in the best interest of town if he would just let himself get lynched? It won't even prove that Eek is scum if he gets you lynched! I simply cannot, cannot see Garmr as town anymore.

VOTE: Garmr

[TvK]

Also, happy birthday Eek.

[TvK]

I will comment on the Wake situation later in the afternoon.

[Garmr]

I got a request TvK think you can do this for me. If I get to l-1 can you take your vote off let someone else get on it then hammer it yourself. please

[My Milked Eek]

D3 is not even 12 hours long and you're already talking about lynching yourself.

[Garmr]

Because i already thought this day through and I want to go out with a bang that will hurt scum .

[My Milked Eek]

I'm not seeing it. Aside from a very vague PR claim which I wouldn't place in a normal game.

[Garmr]

Plus the vengeful modifier is on the basis of a policy lynch.

[Garmr]

plus claiming

[Regfan]

Pretty fucking pissed off you all lynched without me getting back in time to catch up, especially since I cancelled plans to meet up with friends to go away to get to the thread to see a lynch already reached. I'm at the holiday house now though and if all goes well I should be able to get on once a day around this time for an hour, if not then you'll see me every two days or so for the next week.

I'm not in the mood to be fucked around so lets make this absolutely clear:

Wake, if your claim is fake I want it completely retracted in your next post.

I am very very confident that Ffyert is town (I can read Empire like the back of my hand) and I am relatively confident you're town (I still think the sheer amount of effort you've put in and interactions with ICEninja for instance read town and read your post-hammer comment in Post 1313 as insanely genuine and more town motivated plus don't see scum going in a 1 v 1 here) but if you don't retract then I don't give a fuck and I'm policy lynching the fuck out of you because either you're dumb scum or a moron townie I don't want to play with if that's the case.

I still don't understand how TvK isn't lynched yet, process of elimination points towards him being likely mafia, I also don't like TvK's reasoning for avoiding mentioning Garmr in Post 1168; when I have a scum read I constantly restate it even if there's little traction on the list - I don't want town going to the end of the game without my thoughts and concerns voiced. Also don't like his Post 1169 given the flip, allows him to maintain a presence on the Kid A wagon while also setting up to scum read Wake upon a Kid A town flip. Again don't like him suddenly joining Milked on Garmr here, reads as just him setting up future votes without him having to do any real pushing and putting himself in the limelight a whole lot. It's the kind of advice I'd be giving a partner in daytalk and can see his partners giving it to him.

Really the only partial doubt I've had about my Garmr town read is the hammer given that he should know better than not to wait for me, I'll save his ISO in tabs so when I disconnect the internet (Using a internet USB that I have limited time on per day) I can read through it and make sure that I haven't missed anything but I did like his Post 1433 and think it was genuine.

The more I look at this though the more I think 2 scum might actually be the case which is kind of painful to admit given that Wake was the one that suggested it first. I really can't see 3 people here being scum and while it's possible I might be totally sucking this game and be made fun of post-game for it I think the simpler solution is most of my strong town reads are town.

Now can we fucking do this please:

Vote: TvK

[Wake1]

I don't do gambits anymore. I investigated Ffery, she came back Scum, and we need to be lynching her now.

[Regfan]

Oh boy, you really want to be voted, don't you.

Giving you one last chance because if you don't retract and it turns out you're town I'm blaming this entire mess on you.

[My Milked Eek]

Oh snap!

[Wake1]

I'm not afraid, Regfan, given that you provided Ffery the knowledge about my fake Doc claim in KA's C9++ game. I have about 1500 posts total on MS. Ffery never played in my C9++ game, yet so quickly she found that one post in over a thousand. Guess who's here who played in that game with me and was there and knew all about it vividly? You. Scum have Daytalk. Ffery is Scum. You are her Scum partner who informed her so quickly through Daytalk of that one past event, which allowed her to try and mount a very fast defense.

[Garmr]

So your def not doing a gambit wake and your being 100% serious?