Mini 1516: Mafia in Space (Game Over)

[Regfan]

I linked your ISO to that game in the thread already in Post 1010? I'm not the only person who's read it. SG has and given Ffyerts attention to meta I'd say she'd have from that too but if you really want to keep this up then you can enjoi rope.

You better be scum here because if you're not I don't want to see you around this site again,

ever.

Unvote, Vote: Wake

[Wake1]

I am 100% serious, Garmr.

[havingfitz]

Well...I wake up to find I'm still in the game and there's already 4+ pages.  wow
 
Catch-up:
 
I agree with fferllt that yesterday ended a bit abruptly.  I'm not surprised Kid A was the lynch and it was looking inevitable...but I am a bit surprised how the last few votes dropped.  Seemed unnecessarily sudden.
 
Not sure where Wake is getting fferllt is scum.  Look forward to that case.
 
Annnnd Garmr is surprised penguin was the mason.  The shock!  This despite, iirc, your involvement in discussing the role and clearly saying you weren't one.  Just discussing the role was probably enough to zero scum in on penguin.  Think about it...10 players.  One of them is a mason.  I've claimed Vig.  Assuming 3 scum...that bring the mason pool down to 6.  Whatever intereactions herself may have had with other players probably narrowed it down by 2-3 more.  So now scum have a 1 in 3-4 shot of hitting the mason.  Then looking at those 3-4 possibilities interactions with Herself and/or them saying they weren't (Wake?) probably narrowed the pool down to 1-2.  So for you to be so "surprised" really comes across as disingenuous given your role in helping scum zone in on the mason.  A quick alt-f on your ISO shows you mentioning mason 15 times yesterday.  Not sure what each time revolved around but still seems a bit obsessive/unnecessary.
 
@fferllt wrt Post 1335...three things that come to mind are 1) I had no shot last night, 2) scum obviously had an idea who the other mason was, and 3) wifom.  And as you mentioned...the possibility they have a RB exists too.
 
Annnd Wake has a claim.  I did not see that or the result coming.
 
Hilarious.
 
Not sure why fferllt is willing to accept the possibility Wake is fakeclaiming if she is in fact town (which I was leaning towards yesterday).  I could not restrain myself from that 1v1 if I was town getting a ~fake result on me. 

@fferllt

...what was you read on Wake yesterday?
 
Annnd Garmr thought he was going to be the nk last night.  I hate that.  That and the penguin mason shock.  Look at Garmr...he's town!  He should have been killed last night.  Penguin was a mason!?  /sarcasm
 
Page 55 is a lot of Garmr loving on himself and pulling some ridiculous scum/town ratings out of his arse.  I get the impression Garmr believes Wake's claim (not sure on anyone else) but he (Garmr) hasn't felt inclined to commit to his ~belief with a vote.  As Eek apparently does.
 
OK...so probably the first issue I can recall since D1 with the fferllt slot.  Two players have voiced suspicions towards fferllt today and they are both idiots for it.  With Eek being a "fucking idiot" because he believes Wake's claim?  Not cool.
 
Garmr seems to believe Wake and yet he places his vote on TvK.  I guess I can understand him wanting to wait to her more from Wake before committing with a vote but where does the TvK vote come from?  Your last non-Kid A suspicions were directed towards Wake and you only moved off him to hammer Kid. 

@garmr

...what is your read on Wake today?
Post 1391 clarifies Garmr's thoghts on the Wake claim.  ok..
 
Wake's claiming building steam as a potential fakeclaim. 
 
Undecided on the Garmr scum slip.  I can see Eek's pov more than I can buy Garmr's pun explanation.  But still leaves me on the fence with wrt it being a scumslip....
 
Nice Post 1423 by Eek. 
 
@Garmr....if Eek is obvious scum, does that make TvK even more obvious scum to you and if so....why?
 
Garmr...why would you want TvK to be the hammer on your potential lynch?  OK...you answer that a few posts later.  Do you think hammer place suspicion of the hammerer...with or without taking the alignment of the lynchee into account?
 
Regfan...what makes you think there might only be 2 scum?  I would hope there were 3 as if there are only 2...they probably have more firepower.  Though that might account for them having a RB like role.  LOL...as I read what I am typing staing the hope there are 3 scum makes no sense.  Two would of course be better as that gives us more hope.  So I gues 2 with a little more horsepower behind them would be better than having to find 3.  But still interested in why you think there are 2.
 
And finally...wow.  So Wake is saying no gambit.  Ok.  ~Cool?  I must say I did not see fferllt as scum.  Before I commit to voting her Wake...can you explain why you selected fferllt to "scope"?  Why her and not penguin who you seemed pretty suspicious of yesterday?
 
I'll place my vote after Wake has a chance to elaborate.
 
p.edit...so Wake...in addition to elaborating on my question above...are you saying you see Regfan and fferllt as team mates and that she would try to discredit your claim becasue Regfan would have informed her of your previous game?  Save me the ISOing and please tell me what your reads on Regfan have been in this game prior to today.
 
p.p.edit.  regfan....why are you voting the person standing by his claim for the person he has a result on?  WTF is going on?

P.p.edit...VOTE: fferllt

[My Milked Eek]

Honestly, I still believe him. Imagine being a one shot cop with a guilty on a player perceived by most players as town. You can't steer the town towards a lynch without claiming, there's no way. I can't imagine scum faking a guilty on fferyllt. It would have been a hell of a lot easier on fitz/garm/me/tvk. I mean, if he's scum going for a mislynch, why not just stay quiet and pile onto TvK? There are easier ways to mislynch and this is most certainly not one of them.

His speculation about reg-fferyllt scum is a very long stretch of his imagination. I meta'd him this morning for about an hour, perhaps less, and I could find references to him gambiting. You can quickly skim iso's you know. not that hard.

Regfan what are your reasons for voting Wake? Is there more than the copclaim?

[havingfitz]

And Wake...still like to hear your thought process in targeting fferllt.

[My Milked Eek]

So, yeah, garm, that wasn't a scumslip.

Unvote garm, Vote: fferyllt

[Regfan]

Fitz, I think there's a chance of 2 scum mostly because of my reads. I have lots of strongs town reads. And I mean, lots. For there to be 3 scum I have to be massively wrong about a few people and I think what's more likely is 2 scum than me having a read I'd bank the entire game on being wrong. I also think there's only two realistic possibilities here 1) Wake is scum thinking he can push a 1 v 1 and win (Which is stupid play) and lynching him is lynching a scum or 2) Wake is town gambiting and if not lynched will just vote Ffyert in lylo making him a massively liability. Either way he's the optimal lynch.

MME, I don't see Masons-1-shot-cop-vig being the setup, far too many chances of confirmable players. Assume cop gets an innocent on a VT and vigs shot goes of on scum or a VT or anything really. That's Cop investigation + Vig + 2 Masons as clear with the cop being considered as highly likely town, that's 5 potential clears, too many for a setup so even alone from a setup speculation standpoint Wake is scum/fake-claiming. To put it simply though Empire (One head of the Street hydra) is someone I've known and played with for 2 years in 100's of games and I know his scum vs town play of by heart and his play here was his town play without a shadow of a doubt, I'd bet everything I own on it being town.

[Garmr]

I will vote fferylt later on but i don't want to rush this day.

UNVOTE: eek

[My Milked Eek]

In what scenario would a scum benefit fake claiming a guilty on one of the top town players (as perceived by blahblah, you know)?
No situation you could serve me would warrant a 1 for 1 trade-off.

[My Milked Eek]

^@Regfan

[havingfitz]

@Regfan....why isn't there a 3rd option that Wake it telling the truth?

[My Milked Eek]

I will vote fferylt later on but i don't want to rush this day.

UNVOTE: eek

So in order not to rush the day, you unvote me?

Or is this related to my unvote of you? Am I suddenly not a suspect of yours anymore because I stopped voting you?

[Regfan]

MME, scum motivation would be to think the fake-claim would be believed and they get a mslynch to occur + remove a strong town player making late game easier for their partners. That said I'm not even wholeheartedly convinced Wake is scum, I still think there's every chance he's a townie gambiting and fucking the game up for us. The person I think has the highest chance of being mafia is TvK but if Wake is going to continue this then I don't want him in a potential lylo down the track since his vote alone would lose us the game if he votes Ffyert then.

Seriously done with this, I'm going to bed but I can't stress how bad I think a Ffyer lynch is enough.

PEdit: Fitz, I ran through it in my last post, I can read Empire like a book, the slots town,

honestly if you seriously lynch Ffyert today then I don't want you to vig at all because I don't trust you with the decision that could essentially be our lylo shot.

[Garmr]

Well guys I got a feeling if fitz isn't lying that bullets heading my way so lets milk my last day that pretty much the only reason why I didn't mind the the fact i could of been lynched. But since wake isn't bluffing this will be good.

@eek
oh no your still suspect but fferylt came back guilty whats the point in voting someone else at this stage?

[fferyllt]

And Wake...still like to hear your thought process in targeting fferllt.

The only way that he is telling the truth is if he or I have explicitly non-normal roles. A mini has one per game max.

If he is a paranoid or insane one shot cop, then his role is pure negative utility and he had zero chance to test his sanity. If that sort of role was approved in the normal review process, then those reviewers will never hear the end of it from me.

The other possibility would be me being an un-self-aware miller. un-self-aware is also pure negative utility, but doesn't lead directly and inevitablly to a second town lynch after my flip.

This is 1v1 now. I know my alignment is correct. I can't know Wake's. All I know is that his report is false.

Vote Wake88

If you decide to lynch me then for fucks sake give me time to reevaluate my reads. At least 24 hours. I want to do a from scratch reread with a fine tooth comb.

[My Milked Eek]

MME, scum motivation would be to think the fake-claim would be believed and they get a mslynch to occur + remove a strong town player making late game easier for their partners.

Clueless.

What player was fferyllt focusing on? TvK had her vote iirc. (assuming in your scenario TvK-Wake)
Wake was being let off the hook by most players after a turbulent Day 2.

If scum is a duo as you suspect, why would Wake-scum make himself a dead scum for just one player? To avoid TvK from being suspected? As if that would happen. If they are scum, they would have had TvK fakeclaim.

That said I'm not even wholeheartedly convinced Wake is scum, I still think there's every chance he's a townie gambiting and fucking the game up for us. The person I think has the highest chance of being mafia is TvK but if Wake is going to continue this then I don't want him in a potential lylo down the track since his vote alone would lose us the game if he votes Ffyert then.

Why would Wake gambiting as town pick fferyllt, of all people, to pin a fake guilty on? He hasn't voiced any strong suspicions (iirc, I'd search but walls walls walls) on fferyllt. End of day 2 he posted: "

Should I die tonight and Kid flips Town, I suspect ICE, SG, MME, and Garmr.

". I imagine him gambiting would have him pick someone from that list and go from there.

PEdit: Fitz, I ran through it in my last post, I can read Empire like a book, the slots town,

Unfortunately for you, the slot did not contain just Empire. Have you ever played with Empire where he was in a hydra?

A few things to note:
I just remembered that Street said it (hydra) had to wait on its other head to post early something. This was in the game. I don't remember why or which head said that, but it seemed odd at the time.
Also, the bigger part of the last posts of Street Hassle were by fferyllt, as Empire was too busy to post. It is very likely you misread that slot as Empire-town if you realize that the slot wasn't empire for most of the game.


I understand that you might be unwilling to come back on a strong town read of yours, but you need to get over it and look at the game again.

[havingfitz]

If fferllt ends up the lynch (not sure why it wouldn't be her) and she flips scum...I'd like to get a consensus on who I should shoot tonight. We would have the room for me to take a chance with the shot and since sentiment is I'm a poor aim...kma and let's see town do better

If fferllt flips town....I'm targeting Wake tonight.

[My Milked Eek]

Yourself.

[Wake1]

And Wake...still like to hear your thought process in targeting fferllt.

Earlier in the game I had mentioned that Ffery was far too reserved, calm, and subtle to be genuine. So, I decided to investigate her, and I received a "guilty."

@Regfan....why isn't there a 3rd option that Wake it telling the truth?

Exactly.

Two more votes needed.

[My Milked Eek]

We're not lynching anyone until everyone posts their opinion.

[Wake1]

We're not lynching anyone until everyone posts their opinion.

Agreed.

[My Milked Eek]

Wake. Who is her scumpartner?

Don't say regfan, unless you have a better reason than the daychat meta link thing.

[fferyllt]

for fucks sake give me time to reevaluate my reads. At least 24 hours

. I want to do a from scratch reread with a fine tooth comb.

This game has been plagued by premature hammers. Not to mention town fucking self-hammering.

Don't rush this again.

[My Milked Eek]

We're not lynching anyone until everyone posts their opinion.

[My Milked Eek]

That included you.