Mini 1525: Tales of The Abyss Mafia GAME OVER!

[Yulia Jue]

Vote Count 1.05

TEAR: Luke, can't you walk a little slower? Mieu can't keep up.

LUKE: Humph! Why do we have to slow down for that thing?

MIEU: *Huff* *huff* Don't worry, *huff* Tear. *huff* I'm okay. *huff*

LUKE: See? Even he says he's fine!

TEAR: Why do you have to be so mean? Can't you treat Mieu like one of us?

LUKE: One of us?! He's the most annoying thing I've ever seen!

MIEU: Oh, please don't fight!

LUKE: Shut up already! It's your fault in the first place for burning up the
ligers' home! If you hadn't done that, the liger queen could've hatched
her eggs without bothering anybody, and everything would've been fine!
You got that? Huh?!

MIEU: Mieu...

ION: Now, now...I'm sure Mieu understands the gravity of what he's done.

TEAR: You could stand to be a bit more mature, Luke.

LUKE: ...Yeah, yeah.

JADE: Well, now that that's cleared up, shall we be going?

LUKE: Little son of a....

With 13 players alive, it takes 7 votes to lynch or no lynch.

Minami no Hana (2): MafiaSSK, Kazekirimaru (L-5)
The Rufflig (2): Tammy, Minami no Hana (L-5)

pitoli (1): Mac (L-6)
Nachomamma8 (1): ProHawk (L-6)
Ms Marangal (1): orcinus_theoriginal (L-6)
Tammy (1): The Rufflig (L-6)
ProHawk (1): Nachomamma8 (L-6)
TheFuzzylogic99 (1): Ms Marangal (L-6)
Not Voting (3): pitoli, Deacon Blues, TheFuzzylogic99

Time Pool Left: 400 Hours Absolute deadline falls on Wednesday, December 18th, at 4PM GMT -7.

This is in (expired on 2013-12-18 16:00:00)

[Minami no Hana]

Random ISO when I have a time~
(This will help me form an updated readlist eventually by the time I finish ISOing.)

Kaze is so town because he's early aggressive omgz

Yes, I am aware of my meta.

And I didn't like this. Why not let Orci explain why you're town instead of running to the meta assumption?

Asking a good question.

No, I didn't like that test either, Kaze.

Why not?

Because it's totally possible someone wouldn't have thought "blue townie" was a literal description of the PM sitting in their inbox. I for one thought you were speaking figuratively so it's weird to me that you would jump on that and assume scum would try to be "in" on a role PM that could be easily verified by the OP.

And I didn't like this. Why not let Orci explain why you're town instead of running to the meta assumption?

That was to fferybork

Mmm yeah that's m'bad.

I am not surprised to see hedginess from a newbie. The part I don't like, however, is that Fuzzylogic seems to be repeating "you are observing X about me, and saying X is scummy. however, town can also do X" and yeah zzzzzzz

The first paragraph is a townslip if not towntell.
The second paragraph, as I said (I think I said it), I'm leaning towards the playstyle clash.

Because it's totally possible someone wouldn't have thought "blue townie" was a literal description of the PM sitting in their inbox. I for one thought you were speaking figuratively so it's weird to me that you would jump on that and assume scum would try to be "in" on a role PM that could be easily verified by the OP.

How is the role PM verified by the OP? I don't see any example role PMs, do you?

Fair enough. I remembered seeing the town wincon and for some reason assumed the rest was there. But still, you don't think it's a possibility that Fuzzy was not taking you at face value when you said "blue"?

Townslip #2.

As far as her general posts goes, it's not aggresssive. I played with pitoli once when she was scum and replaced out. In there, I remember she going aggressive against her pushes (also with a long post = long dick joke lol). In this game, she didn't look aggressive against her pushes so I guess that's another townpoint for her. Also, her general posts looked townish.

So I think she's town.

(1/12)

[Kazekirimaru]

@ Kaze
You know I am town.....my argument might of been bad but you have a strong town read on me. That is why you left me alone. Plus you know that voting for me bc I said sorry would be a bit weak especially since it is clearly me trying to be nice.

Actually, no. I have a weak town read on you if a town read at all, I'm leaving you alone because I already decided to, and you saying sorry is bad no matter how you spin it.

Jedi mind tricks don't work on me.

(pitoli ISO)

Feel free to explain the townslips you see when you have the time.

[Minami no Hana]

Easy.
As fery said last time, during that rxn test, scum would've looked back at OP.
Not remembering what was in the OP is psychologically unlikely to come from scum's mind.

[Nachomamma8]

Town: {

Orci

,

Tammy

,

Fuzzy

, Mac, Kaze,

ProHawk

}
Null (L-R = T-S): {Pitoli, Rufflig, GifSakura, SSK, Mara}
Scum: {

Nacho

}

Nacho is my current conclusion based on the prohawk push but I'm annealing my take on it still. Wouldn't take to bank.

Orcinus/Kaze due to Kaze claim and Orci nod.


#UPDATE

Minami read is surprising to me, what's going on there? The gif head has been a hell of a lot more active and engaged than he ever was in touhou and providing a lot more good shit to boot.

[Nachomamma8]

That question goes to both of you, by the way: ffery post was a lot shorter and thus less obnoxious to quote.

[Nachomamma8]

I recognize that a lot of people have a town hardon for Nacho, even though I think I see some cog-dis with how he's personally treating prohawk's play ("your play is shit this game") vs how he's treating our read of prohawk ("if you have a townread on him then you're underestimating him"). Can't have it both ways. If those people townreading Nacho could at least attempt to give their own take on him, I'd appreciate it, otherwise I probably just have to let him be today.

I want pitoli off the table for the moment - she's not active on-site right now; give her a bit to get into this.

I want

SSK to be prodded

because he IS active on site but otherwise has no footprint in this game and isn't a compelling lynch either because of that.

Leaves {Gifkura, Rufflig, Mara}, for the moment, pending responses from others.

VOTE: GifSakura

that 'Ima quote my half-game old reads' post does not seem town motivated.

Initially I said his reaction to my wagon was shit because it was shit. I then said if you had a toe read on him based on his reaction to my initial attack, you were underestimating him because there was still a lot lacking. I don't understand where this got overblown to me insulting prohawk as a player.

[Nachomamma8]

ProHawk would immediately go after me for being antitown as hell with my big wagons without any debate. A wagon forming in the way that it did means that there's no real way to distinguish between town or scum jumping on the wagon; Prohawk would be likely to express that as well. I didn't like the ease that he picked two names to be scum from the wagon with (considering the wagon gave no information whatsoever based on who jumped on it), and I didn't like I wasn't named in his suspects until I reaffirmed my push on him. Timing was late.

Want to know the real fun part about all of this conjecturing about what town-hawk would do?

I am pretty sure Nacho hasn't even been remotely familiar with scum-hawk.

Who said you weren't a suspect before that?

The whole "I think Tammy and Rufflig are the scum on my wagon" implied that when I started the wagon on you in the first place. Why didn't you mention my name if I was a suspect?

I see where you got the idea I suppose. You didn't ping my gut like those two at the time I posted - to answer your question. It took a bit more re-reading and analyzing for me to come to that conclusion. Why does me suspecting you after pushing me make me scum? What real scum-motivation would I have to make today into a Hawk vs Nacho?

Oh Rufflig, would you be so kind as to tell me your thoughts on SSK?

P-EDIT: Have you ever town-read me Hana? Your strat should change to: Scum-Reading ProHawk = Town ProHawk. Town-Reading ProHawk = Scum ProHawk. You will have much better results this way.

I don't need to have a baseline for scum prohawk in order to call you out for acting differently; all I need is a baseline for town prohawk. I never said you were playing to your scum meta, I said you were playing differently and I think that's because you're scum. Why do I need experience with scum prohawk to say as much?

Suspecting me after I reaffirmed your push on me is scummy because it evolved in a way that felt disingenuous, and I explained why already. But, in case you need that explanation again, I figured you would have more of a knee jerk response to the wagon on you instead of a strange delayed reaction. You don't have much motivation to make today me versus you, but that's not what you're doing. You're trying to push the wagon off you, and you think that conviction in pushing me is something that people will see, go "why would prohawk do that?", and leave you alone. I also notice that you didn't respond to a significant portion of my rebuttal/requests to clarify your position. Why?

[Nachomamma8]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: rufflig

Would you like to build a snowman?

[Nachomamma8]

Why did you choose Tammy to push on in your opening post?

Because her opening post was boring, seemed overly terse. Thought I was sensing a bit of weakness, couldn't pass up the opportunity to catch Tammy-scum in one post and make up for chosen mafia. I did research into her other opening posts and everything!

You did?

I'd really like to know what recent town games have been wordy? Or what games you're comparing it to for my openings that you are comparing it to.

I thought chef, hoh (even though more content to focus on), and wingate were all more amusing then your opening here.

[Ms Marangal]

I'm pretty sure you have used the "You aren't playing town-you" argument against me when you pushed for my mis-lynch in a game. Nacho.

[Deacon Blues]

Town: {

Orci

,

Tammy

,

Fuzzy

, Mac, Kaze,

ProHawk

}
Null (L-R = T-S): {Pitoli, Rufflig, GifSakura, SSK, Mara}
Scum: {

Nacho

}

Nacho is my current conclusion based on the prohawk push but I'm annealing my take on it still. Wouldn't take to bank.

Orcinus/Kaze due to Kaze claim and Orci nod.


#UPDATE

Minami read is surprising to me, what's going on there? The gif head has been a hell of a lot more active and engaged than he ever was in touhou and providing a lot more good shit to boot.

For me, the short answer is that I needed something from gif or something from sakura to firm up the read at that point. And I think I got what I needed.

On a more global level, I'm finding that my reads tend to be a little more generious than bork's. I'm ok with his reads as the consensus stance, because I think we start at the zero-content point with different default positions, and over time we'll converge. I'm pretty sure that's borne out in the one game I remember where we were both town. I feel like there have at least 2 games where we were both town, but the only one I can remember right now is Walking Dead.

[Tammy]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: rufflig

Would you like to build a snowman?

I don't get it. Are you saying yay lets have fun your vote is super duper dreamy or is it a new buzzword to tell me my vote sucks? If its the former, let me get my gloves.

[Tammy]

Why did you choose Tammy to push on in your opening post?

Because her opening post was boring, seemed overly terse. Thought I was sensing a bit of weakness, couldn't pass up the opportunity to catch Tammy-scum in one post and make up for chosen mafia. I did research into her other opening posts and everything!

You did?

I'd really like to know what recent town games have been wordy? Or what games you're comparing it to for my openings that you are comparing it to.

I thought chef, hoh (even though more content to focus on), and wingate were all more amusing then your opening here.

That's okay you didn't get my joke.

I think they're Ll on par with each other though. Except hoh? That was your opening

[The Rufflig]

You people are awfully chatty.

I think Kazekirimaru's claim looks towny (though I'm a sap for a good claim). Even if I put Kaze's alignment aside for a moment, I think it would be a very gutsy move for a scum Kaze to confirm a scum buddy - this isn't a sense I got from Kaze. I believe that orcinus is probably town.

pitoli is slipping back down towards null.

I think Nacho may actually be town. This is just based on my previous games with him.

MafiaSSK initial foray into the game looks encouraging, but I'd like to see him keep it up.

---

Minami no Hana is obviously skimming which I do not like. Case in point:

Rufflig: Leaning Scum, I didnt like his vote hoping everytime someone did as much as suspect him, and his vote on prohawk seemed opportunistic (bus?)

It was the other way around. I voted Prohawk then Prohawk named me as scummy. I voted Tammy then Tammy named me as scummy.

---

@Ms Marangal:

Talk to me about your FuzzyLogic vote. It seems to me that you ought to have a reason for your votes by this point. However, while I see lots of reads in your postings, I see almost no reasoning behind them. This vote isn't going anywhere without some pushing - pushing that neither you or anyone else is providing.

[Nachomamma8]

I'm pretty sure you have used the "You aren't playing town-you" argument against me when you pushed for my mis-lynch in a game. Nacho.

Probably. I've also used it when pushing for a few scum lynches!

[Tammy]

@ The ruffling
Please explain you motivation(s) for puttting a vote on Tammy. From my POv it seem like a kind of weak reason... If it is a push it kinda seemed like a pointless push. Meaning there are better reason to push a player.

It was a pointless push. I had already stated that I was going to reconsider Prohawk today. With that in mind, no vote of mine could have been considered all that serious. When Tammy said she hadn't read the thread, I couldn't help making a flippant comment and put a vote with it. I had absolutely no expectations of anything happening because of it. Tammy certainly wasn't in any danger of getting lynched, but then she blew up and took it so seriously. That is not a reaction that I see often and I don't recall ever seeing it from Tammy before.

It looked like a scum push to me for all the reasons I said last night. I also think that Kaze's was problematic but he's so new it's hard to pin down exactly.

If you think that's blowing up you've never seen me react to votes on me in a blowing up manner. Why are you using the "I don't recall ever seeing it from Tammy before?" The only time I remember us playing together was when I was scum and I wasn't even voted until endgame where I argued my way out of my votes.

Hey rufflig - pretty sure I asked you a question in there. Pretty sure you didn't answer it. Do you need help finding it or did you ignore it because you knew if you tried to answer it your response would amount to uhbuhduhderwewooflickerspork?

[Nachomamma8]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: rufflig

Would you like to build a snowman?

I don't get it. Are you saying yay lets have fun your vote is super duper dreamy or is it a new buzzword to tell me my vote sucks? If its the former, let me get my gloves.

Yes your vote is super dreamy.

[The Rufflig]

Hey rufflig - pretty sure I asked you a question in there. Pretty sure you didn't answer it. Do you need help finding it or did you ignore it because you knew if you tried to answer it your response would amount to uhbuhduhderwewooflickerspork?

It looked like a rhetorical question. Btw, do you also want an answer to "do you have something against hugs"? Your most recent post just screams that you're merely trying to get a rise out of me because you've nothing better to do. You're not actually expecting an answer with that sort of attitude. I'll answer your question anyway.

If you haven't noticed by now, I tend to look towards behavior in conjunction with what someone is saying. Your reaction to a facetious post was all wrong. I pointed it out. You came across a lot like a scum caught for the wrong reason. Did I really need to break this down for you? You've tried to hand wave your behavior away by saying that I've only seen your scum game in which you were not under suspicion until end game. So, in essence, you've already admitted that I had not seen that type of behavior from you before. In spite of the length of this disagreement between us, you've failed to make any meaningful explanation of your behavior.

Earlier on, you stated that I didn't need to put a vote on you as I could read your reactions from the others voting you. Might I remind you that you went off on Kaze as soon as he voted you as well? Perhaps you'd like to explain why you are so prickly towards everyone who votes for you?

[Tammy]

Holy shit. You're scum.

I'm busy right now and will give a proper response later. But holy shit that's not town at all.

[orcinus_theoriginal]

Thanks

[TheFuzzylogic99]

@ Tammy
who is scum

@ Marangal
I would also like to know your reason for putting a vote on me

[pitoli]

VOTE: Fuzzy logic

[Deacon Blues]

Pitoli, given what's on this page, where you placed your vote surprises me a little.

What are your other reads?

[orcinus_theoriginal]

Fery vote rufflig