Mini 1525: Tales of The Abyss Mafia GAME OVER!

[Deacon Blues]

bork's doing a reset. We'll put down a vote tomorow.

[Ms Marangal]

and, you're hurting my head more than it should be hurting

I want to get rid of that.

(snip)

and, back to fuzzy

How about this

Your comment about No Hana being a more active lurker makes no sense since she has posted alot more than you , have tried to scum hunt and tried to make reads. You answer came off as hypocritical and ungenuine. Your vote on me seems to be based on playstyle... which a better player would know not to do. Honestly this seems like an attack on me bc I questioned if you were scum and were possible going to vote for you. As for your excuse for not replacing out I just dont buy it.... Your vote on Hana seems like a bit of a stretch. Sorry but I am reading you as scum

VOTE: MafiaSSK

There's stuff like this that's bothering the fuck out of me.

Do you know what active lurking is?

because Minami No Hana active lurking and SSK Lurking make sense, albiet it's a little weird to bring that up at this point in time but I can kinda understand where he is coming from in that regard

and I don't even know why you're apologizing to... someone you think is... scum...

Pedit: Nope, not really. Tammy doesn't bother me she's "easy to manipulate" and I'll be able to do it with time

[Ms Marangal]

(snip)

@Ms Marangal:

Talk to me about your FuzzyLogic vote. It seems to me that you ought to have a reason for your votes by this point. However, while I see lots of reads in your postings, I see almost no reasoning behind them. This vote isn't going anywhere without some pushing - pushing that neither you or anyone else is providing.

I am not all that interested in talking to you, really.

I'm pretty sure you have used the "You aren't playing town-you" argument against me when you pushed for my mis-lynch in a game. Nacho.

Probably. I've also used it when pushing for a few scum lynches!

Well, yeah but it still stands that you have used that reason on people who you think is scum but then end up mis-lynching thus not something I really wanna follow.

Hawk was acting a little weird early game, but so was I and he has pretty much gone back to normal hawkie anyway.

[pitoli]

Pitoli, given what's on this page, where you placed your vote surprises me a little.

What are your other reads?

Only just skimmed, have yet to do ISOs, but I'm also worried about Nacho and Rufflig. I was paranoid of Orc too but since I'm believing this is town-Kaze more and more I'm putting that aside for now.

Fuzzy asks a lot of questions that don't seem to really go anywhere, and he seems to be asking them broadly and indiscriminately... I usually expect town to have a little more focus. This is the type of thing that I can imagine newbie scum doing while they don't know where to push. It actually reminded me of the BSG game where several people accused me (correctly) of hiding behind the "I'm-a-newbie wall" a little too often to feel genuine, that is the general feeling I am getting here. It bothers me (it REALLY REALLY bothers me) that almost every post he feels the need to say "I'm not sure" or "I guess ____ could be ____", it's like a weird hedgy disclaimer that might make it easier for him to retreat behind his stated opinions.

[TheFuzzylogic99]

@ Marangal
I guess I dont understand what you mean you by active lurking.... It just seemed like Mafia was lurking too but was trying to make out his lurking as ok while No Hana scummy. I found this suspicious and thought that he needed to justify his actions. As far as the three votes it felt like the vote was rushed to make him seem like he was trying to scum hunt. In other word I felt that he was trying to fake scum hunt to look town. I pressured me to put a vote on him and so I did.

Even you have to admit his scum claim on me was very weak an there were very little to read me as scum

As far saying im sorry , it was obvious that i was trying to be nice about my vote. Sorry but that is just my personality. I am just a nice person. Sometimes I admit i could be too nice. Too say that me saying sorry in front of my scum read like as I did as scummy is ridiculous .

To me you seem to sheeping a very weak claim and i kinda want to know why

You answers to Ruff seems aggressively dismissive. The fact is that part of the game is to answer questions even to those who are acusing you or even those who do not like you Pleas tell me why you think that you do not have to do this also?

[TheFuzzylogic99]

@ Pit
Understandable.... the fact is that I ask alot of questions.... this is how I play even my town game. I like to get all the info I can before I make an accusation. I gather info by acting question. And yes I am unfoccused however I am almost always unfocused. This is who I am. I not going to apologize for that. Being unfocused is one of the many hazard of being Fuzzy. I learned to deal with it in my own way.I can become focused if something gets my attention. You can see that in the way I post.

[TheFuzzylogic99]

edit * asking questions

[Tammy]

Hey rufflig - pretty sure I asked you a question in there. Pretty sure you didn't answer it. Do you need help finding it or did you ignore it because you knew if you tried to answer it your response would amount to uhbuhduhderwewooflickerspork?

It looked like a rhetorical question.

It was nothing like a rhetorical question. You literally said "I don't ever recall seeing it from Tammy before" regarding my reaction, which would indicate that you had experience with me and my play and how I react to votes/suspicion. I asked you why you were using that as part of your "case" against me.

I figured if you were town, you would oh I don't know do what town do and admit that no you actually don't have any experience with me. You could have said that from that limited time we played that you had developed some idea for how I reacted to suspicion; you know engage me to see if your expectations were correct and maybe determine my alignment a little. Maybe you'd say you followed a game of mine or something. You know some response that indicated that you weren't just spouting bs as part of your reasoning. Something, but you didn't you ignored it.

Btw, do you also want an answer to "do you have something against hugs"? Your most recent post just screams that you're merely trying to get a rise out of me because you've nothing better to do. You're not actually expecting an answer with that sort of attitude.

I actually wasn't expecting a response to whether or not you had something against hugs, and you literally cannot be serious with this statement. That was a rhetorical question. You disregarded a stance I made on someone for a reason I legitimately had. One of the ways I read people is based on how they make me feel when they post. That was the only read I had at the time.

If you haven't noticed by now, I tend to look towards behavior in conjunction with what someone is saying. Your reaction to a facetious post was all wrong. I pointed it out. You came across a lot like a scum caught for the wrong reason. Did I really need to break this down for you? You've tried to hand wave your behavior away by saying that I've only seen your scum game in which you were not under suspicion until end game. So, in essence, you've already admitted that I had not seen that type of behavior from you before. In spite of the length of this disagreement between us, you've failed to make any meaningful explanation of your behavior.

What a great piece of circumlocution. You can talk in straight sentences any time you want. Your reasoning for voting me was scum reasoning. It was totally scum motivated, as I pointed out when I did. And I didn't handwave shit. You literally said "I don't ever recall seeing it from Tammy before" which was total bs and tried to make it sound like you knew how town me would respond to you. The fact that I pointed out that the only experience you have with me is when I was scum who came under no suspicion until endgame is not handwaving my behavior. It's pointing out that you were completely fallacious in your argument. Instead of acting like town and saying, "you're right Tammy I don't really have any experience with you" you're accusing me of handwaving.

And I did make a meaningful explanation of my reaction to you. It was a scum motivated vote you made. And I think if you were town, you'd see where I was coming from. You jump on a wagon, which you later claim was for pressure, but instead of reacting to my reaction to the pressure that was already forming, you commented on something else, me not having read the game. I had already given a reaction to Prohawk's vote (which was a joking response to him as you know what, he's the only person who actually had the right to scum hunt his wagon and he called it a gut read.) I had already given a reaction to Kaze's vote, which I'll address below, who mind you didn't have a right to scum hunt that wagon. Not to mention I had already given a reaction to Nacho's vote on me earlier in the day. You did not comment on any of that at the time; you passed all of that by to vote me for "not having read the thread yet."

And when I went back and looked, both Prohawk and Kaze, both the people voting for me at the time had mentioned that you were also suspicious. FMPOV you jumped on a wagon that seemed to be growing as a means of diverting attention from yourself. And you actually started scumhunting people "off the wagon". I expect a newer player like Kaze to scumhunt a wagon before a flip, but not someone with your experience. Also, why was MafiaSSK your choice for scum off the wagon? What does MafiaSSK have anything to do with that wagon? I just went and looked and he wasn't even posting during the time of the pressure wagon Nacho started on Prohawk, so why did you pick him out of everyone to think was scum "off the wagon"? Because to me, that looks like you were just trying to accomplish busy work and make it look like you were scumhunting when you actually weren't.

Earlier on, you stated that I didn't need to put a vote on you as I could read your reactions from the others voting you. Might I remind you that you went off on Kaze as soon as he voted you as well? Perhaps you'd like to explain why you are so prickly towards everyone who votes for you?

Cool, and I'll reiterate. Why was my reaction to Kaze if I went off on him not part of your reasoning? Also, if you really really think asking someone a few questions to figure out their alignment and reasoning for voting you going off, then you haven't seen going off. Kaze was scumhunting a wagon he was on. On someone whose alignment he couldn't know if town. On people who were voting for the same exact reasoning he was voting for. If you can't see how that looks then I don't know what to tell you.

As far as me being prickly, I'm town.

[TheFuzzylogic99]

Edit should of said Ifelt he he pressured me to vote for him.


I really need to read these post before I submit them......

[Tammy]

@ Tammy
who is scum

The Rufflig

[Tammy]

Town: Deacon Blues, Kaze, orcinus & Mac

Tentative Town: Nacho, pitoli, fuzzy

Scum: Rufflig.

Don't know about anyone else.

[pitoli]

@ Pit
Understandable.... the fact is that I ask alot of questions.... this is how I play even my town game. I like to get all the info I can before I make an accusation. I gather info by acting question. And yes I am unfoccused however I am almost always unfocused. This is who I am. I not going to apologize for that. Being unfocused is one of the many hazard of being Fuzzy. I learned to deal with it in my own way.I can become focused if something gets my attention. You can see that in the way I post.

Hmmm. That's not quite the response I was expecting. Not sure I should consider you less scum for it...

Fuzzy if you don't mind can you explain your quick turnaround on your Kaze?

[The Rufflig]

I think I'll spare everyone the wall war.

So, Tammy, your case on me boils down to:

1) I made a pressure vote on you in a flippant way
2) I pointed out out a strange reaction in your play
3) I didn't include a serious case with my original flippant post.
and
4) I waited until after my vote turned serious to start making a case on you.

That is a wonderful case, Tammy -- for me being town.

---

No, you haven't explained your reaction in any meaningful way. I don't believe that you can read my original post with the vote on you in a serious manner. It is obviously not serious. The fact that you are unwilling to admit it is very telling.

[TheFuzzylogic99]

.[/quote]

Hmmm. That's not quite the response I was expecting. Not sure I should consider you less scum for it...

Fuzzy if you don't mind can you explain your quick turnaround on your Kaze?[/quote]

@ Pitoli
Welcome to the world of FuzzyLogic


The reason for my turn around for both Kaze and Orcinus is Kaze's claim. I tend to believe him.

One reason is the time and circumstance of the claim. Yes scum could claim but I find it very unlikely they would do it in the way he did and the time he did, This makes me believe he is the town stalker. I could be wrong but I would be very very surpprised if he flipped scum. I am 95% sure both are townies

The other reason is the way he answers the question when asked why he believed Orcinus was town. He basically said because he is. I believe this was bc he couldnt think of a reason and didnt want to claim. He knew Orcinus was town but didnt know how to express that.

[Tammy]

So, Rufflig, you gonna admit any time soon that you actually have no experience with me to claim that "you've never seen me react this way" any time soon or what?

I don't think anything about your play reads town. There's no inquisitiveness, no attempt to discern alignments, no actual anything.

I didn't say you voted me in a flippant way. YOU DID. I said you voted me for scummy reasoning. I said you didn't react to what you should have if it was a pressure vote.

ALSO ALSO, this shows proves rather that it wasn't just flippant:

Here are your two posts with votes that night:

Haven't read the game.

Here. Have some incentive to do so.

VOTE: Tammy

I'm also up for MafiaSSK, if anyone wants to go a hunting off wagon.

This means it was not just flippant. That second post shows you "scumhunting" on and off the wagon. Something you have no right to do if you don't actually know Prohawk's alignment. ALSO nice of you to ignore my question about MafiaSSK and why you were scumhunting off the wagon for someone who was not here for the wagon.

You made an opportunistic as fuck jump onto a wagon and tried to label it as flippant and pressure after the fact. You did it for a scummy reason because you are fucking scum. It's nice of you to absolutely misrep the hell out of what I argued and claim it makes you town. You look nothing like town, and it's really super specially sweet of you that you're actually handwaving away the points I raised.

But this is my last bit of interaction with you. You are nothing but a distraction and scum. I'm not arguing with scum anymore here. And you're not going to get this thing going anywhere. ANYONE who has ever played with me knows I'm fucking town here. So, if on the really tiny off chance you happen to be town here, you should actually start scumhunting, but I have no way you can actually even resemble town, because if you were you'd actually look like it and you don't.

[pitoli]

The reason for my turn around for both Kaze and Orcinus is Kaze's claim. I tend to believe him.

One reason is the time and circumstance of the claim. Yes scum could claim but I find it very unlikely they would do it in the way he did and the time he did, This makes me believe he is the town stalker. I could be wrong but I would be very very surpprised if he flipped scum. I am 95% sure both are townies

The other reason is the way he answers the question when asked why he believed Orcinus was town. He basically said because he is. I believe this was bc he couldnt think of a reason and didnt want to claim. He knew Orcinus was town but didnt know how to express that.

Before the claim you had Kaze as your leading scum read according to your ISO >> so you didn't consider any scenarios in which Kaze could be fakeclaiming? Scum-Kaze knows Orc's alignment after all. It wouldn't be a stretch to consider that Kaze/Orc's flavor characters are really linked somehow

Your switch looks off to me.

I still feel in the dark about Tammy/Rufflig so I'm off to read their ISOs now.

[The Rufflig]

It is hard to scum hunt when I have to spend so much time defending myself from made up BS. Perhaps, you've never been in such a situation, so you won't understand. However, there is only so much time that I'm willing to devote to this game. If I'm required to spend all that refuting complete BS, then that is what my play will look like.

---

@Ms Marangal:

I'm sad that you don't want to talk to me, but your quoted reason for your vote is insufficient. Fuzzy bringing up lurking is odd, but you can see where it could come from? That isn't a ringing endorsement of scum. An apology for voting another player seems to be the main basis for your vote.

[TheFuzzylogic99]

@ Pitoi
At the beginning I thought Kaze was scum and Orcinus as a likely scum buddy. After the claim I considered he could be fake claiming but dismissed it as very very unlikely. You could be right but as I said his behavior before the claim and the time of the claim makes me believe it is true.

[Ms Marangal]

@ Pit
Understandable.... the fact is that I ask alot of questions.... this is how I play even my town game. I like to get all the info I can before I make an accusation. I gather info by acting question. And yes I am unfoccused however I am almost always unfocused. This is who I am. I not going to apologize for that. Being unfocused is one of the many hazard of being Fuzzy. I learned to deal with it in my own way.I can become focused if something gets my attention. You can see that in the way I post.

Scum slip?

[Ms Marangal]

@Ms Marangal:

I'm sad that you don't want to talk to me, but your quoted reason for your vote is insufficient. Fuzzy bringing up lurking is odd, but you can see where it could come from? That isn't a ringing endorsement of scum. An apology for voting another player seems to be the main basis for your vote.

That isn't a post to you, shush

and read that post a little more closely

[Ms Marangal]

@ Marangal
I guess I dont understand what you mean you by active lurking.... It just seemed like Mafia was lurking too but was trying to make out his lurking as ok while No Hana scummy. I found this suspicious and thought that he needed to justify his actions. As far as the three votes it felt like the vote was rushed to make him seem like he was trying to scum hunt. In other word I felt that he was trying to fake scum hunt to look town. I pressured me to put a vote on him and so I did.

Even you have to admit his scum claim on me was very weak an there were very little to read me as scum

As far saying im sorry , it was obvious that i was trying to be nice about my vote. Sorry but that is just my personality. I am just a nice person. Sometimes I admit i could be too nice. Too say that me saying sorry in front of my scum read like as I did as scummy is ridiculous .

To me you seem to sheeping a very weak claim and i kinda want to know why

You answers to Ruff seems aggressively dismissive. The fact is that part of the game is to answer questions even to those who are acusing you or even those who do not like you Pleas tell me why you think that you do not have to do this also?

Active Lurking = Being around and reading the thread while not posting, or Posts but doesn't really have anything worth reading in said post. In other words, fluff

His claim on you was weak, and I have my reasons to suspect him as well, however that doesn't mean there you aren't scum. There are more than enough reasons, I just don't like the ones stated in thread

I am not sheeping

and it's the truth. I'm not interested in interacting with Ruff. at least not at this point in time. The whole point of the game is to find, and lynch scum as town and to be able to deceive town long enough to win the game and lynch enough townies as scum. There's nothing there that says I have to talk to every single person in the game, and having to many convo's going on at a single time can impede of the ultimate goal as either alignment

[pitoli]

@ Pit
Understandable.... the fact is that I ask alot of questions.... this is how I play even my town game. I like to get all the info I can before I make an accusation. I gather info by acting question. And yes I am unfoccused however I am almost always unfocused. This is who I am. I not going to apologize for that. Being unfocused is one of the many hazard of being Fuzzy. I learned to deal with it in my own way.I can become focused if something gets my attention. You can see that in the way I post.

Scum slip?

How so?

[TheFuzzylogic99]

@ Marangal
I guess I dont understand what you mean you by active lurking.... It just seemed like Mafia was lurking too but was trying to make out his lurking as ok while No Hana scummy. I found this suspicious and thought that he needed to justify his actions. As far as the three votes it felt like the vote was rushed to make him seem like he was trying to scum hunt. In other word I felt that he was trying to fake scum hunt to look town. I pressured me to put a vote on him and so I did.

Even you have to admit his scum claim on me was very weak an there were very little to read me as scum

As far saying im sorry , it was obvious that i was trying to be nice about my vote. Sorry but that is just my personality. I am just a nice person. Sometimes I admit i could be too nice. Too say that me saying sorry in front of my scum read like as I did as scummy is ridiculous .

To me you seem to sheeping a very weak claim and i kinda want to know why

You answers to Ruff seems aggressively dismissive. The fact is that part of the game is to answer questions even to those who are acusing you or even those who do not like you Pleas tell me why you think that you do not have to do this also?

Active Lurking = Being around and reading the thread while not posting, or Posts but doesn't really have anything worth reading in said post. In other words, fluff

His claim on you was weak, and I have my reasons to suspect him as well, however that doesn't mean there you aren't scum. There are more than enough reasons, I just don't like the ones stated in thread

I am not sheeping

and it's the truth. I'm not interested in interacting with Ruff. at least not at this point in time.

The whole point of the game is to find, and lynch scum as town and to be able to deceive town long enough to win the game and lynch enough townies as scum. There's nothing there that says I have to talk to every single person in the game, and having to many convo's going on at a single time can impede of the ultimate goal as either alignment

I find this a very odd statement coming from a townie.

[Kazekirimaru]

I've came around to TownTammy after that exchange. Mhmm.

---

@ Pit
Understandable.... the fact is that I ask alot of questions.... this is how I play even my town game. I like to get all the info I can before I make an accusation. I gather info by acting question. And yes I am unfoccused however I am almost always unfocused. This is who I am. I not going to apologize for that. Being unfocused is one of the many hazard of being Fuzzy. I learned to deal with it in my own way.I can become focused if something gets my attention. You can see that in the way I post.

Scum slip?

How so?

I think I see it, too. I'll let Mara answer, though.

[Kazekirimaru]

@ Marangal
I guess I dont understand what you mean you by active lurking.... It just seemed like Mafia was lurking too but was trying to make out his lurking as ok while No Hana scummy. I found this suspicious and thought that he needed to justify his actions. As far as the three votes it felt like the vote was rushed to make him seem like he was trying to scum hunt. In other word I felt that he was trying to fake scum hunt to look town. I pressured me to put a vote on him and so I did.

Even you have to admit his scum claim on me was very weak an there were very little to read me as scum

As far saying im sorry , it was obvious that i was trying to be nice about my vote. Sorry but that is just my personality. I am just a nice person. Sometimes I admit i could be too nice. Too say that me saying sorry in front of my scum read like as I did as scummy is ridiculous .

To me you seem to sheeping a very weak claim and i kinda want to know why

You answers to Ruff seems aggressively dismissive. The fact is that part of the game is to answer questions even to those who are acusing you or even those who do not like you Pleas tell me why you think that you do not have to do this also?

Active Lurking = Being around and reading the thread while not posting, or Posts but doesn't really have anything worth reading in said post. In other words, fluff

His claim on you was weak, and I have my reasons to suspect him as well, however that doesn't mean there you aren't scum. There are more than enough reasons, I just don't like the ones stated in thread

I am not sheeping

and it's the truth. I'm not interested in interacting with Ruff. at least not at this point in time.

The whole point of the game is to find, and lynch scum as town and to be able to deceive town long enough to win the game and lynch enough townies as scum. There's nothing there that says I have to talk to every single person in the game, and having to many convo's going on at a single time can impede of the ultimate goal as either alignment

I find this a very odd statement coming from a townie.

What's odd about it?