The only way to balance Large theme games with multi-scum is via cross kills.. If there aren't any, A) town loses... but really B)its 1 scumteam.In post 5671, Titus wrote:Get out of moonlogic. No night had multiple kilks. No flips of this second team. Just stop please.In post 5667, ooba wrote:There's nothing to say it's not a odd one team-even one team night killing scum teams.In post 5665, Benmage wrote:Dear Faraday
Ooba thinks the game is still 2 scum teams.
Did you balance for that?
At least, I'm thinking about the game in the right terms. We have 11 people and 4 scum. That's 2 mislynches if it's just Chaos. Alfred + 3 people isn't going to cut dice - you give reads now as complete teams - who are the other three scum partners.
A uPick of Ice & Fire - Day 12 - #REKT?
Forum rules
-
Benmage
-
Benmage SurvivorBenmage
- Survivor
- Survivor
- Posts: 13727
- Joined: December 20, 2008
"ITT Benmage is making Shakespeare look cool. I need to bring you to my high school." -Vi
"If i must blantantly follow somone a player cannot do better than blindly following benmage" - tubby216-
Titus
-
Titus She/her/hersMoon Walker Titus She/her/hers
- Moon Walker
- Moon Walker
- Posts: 75991
- Joined: May 3, 2013
- Pronoun: She/her/hers
- Contact:
Magua, did you get your permablock back?
Ooba, so you're saying the odd team is incomptent at killing at all while the even team has only hit town... I will buy that for 5 dollars if you give me one million.ShowThe scum had the misfortune of Titus being absurdly accurate on day one.Really quite impressed by that.~Drixx
You're letting Titus win the game by herself.Good luck now I guess.You have no chance to win.~Tywin
GTKTitus Part 2
Titus Academy
Friend, Enemies, and That Other Person is now in signups. Click here to sign up.
VLA Friday nights until Sunday morning.-
Benmage
-
Benmage SurvivorBenmage
- Survivor
- Survivor
- Posts: 13727
- Joined: December 20, 2008
Oh good 1.In post 5676, Titus wrote:Magua, did you get your permablock back?"ITT Benmage is making Shakespeare look cool. I need to bring you to my high school." -Vi
"If i must blantantly follow somone a player cannot do better than blindly following benmage" - tubby216-
Magua
-
Magua Jack of All Trades Magua
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 6109
- Joined: January 18, 2009
1) Have you ever seen a game with this setup where the teams did not win together?In post 5674, ooba wrote:Good lord. One team kills on odd nights, one on even nights - some amount of crosskill protection\rbing involved.
2) How do you imagine this works if one team is eliminated?
3) Answer my question about why Benmage's guilty is different than yours.-
Magua
-
Magua Jack of All Trades Magua
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 6109
- Joined: January 18, 2009
To be quite honest, I see no reason to answer this question for the same reason that I see no benefit in a mass claim.In post 5676, Titus wrote:Magua, did you get your permablock back?-
ooba
-
ooba Jack of All Trades ooba
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 5616
- Joined: September 14, 2007
- Location: Outpost 31
Sure. Look back at the two fake guilties.In post 5673, Magua wrote:@ooba: Was serious asking about why we should treat Benmage's fake-guilty different from yours. Want this thought process.
- I claimed on D7 to get kanye lynched.
- Benmage claimed on D8 to get Garruk lynched.
Both of us were under no pressure and the claims on each day came out of no-where. However Benmage is different from mine because:
His fake guilty came second.
-As town, he really just saw one fake guilty to atrocious results and decides to replicate it?
- As scum, he has two things going for him - (a) his fake-meta of previous behaviour (b) the fact that he was second and knew he'd be placing himself with me-
ooba
-
ooba Jack of All Trades ooba
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 5616
- Joined: September 14, 2007
- Location: Outpost 31
None that I can remember. If one team gets eliminated, the other team gets to kill on all nights.In post 5678, Magua wrote:In post 5674, ooba wrote:
Good lord. One team kills on odd nights, one on even nights - some amount of crosskill protection\rbing involved.
1) Have you ever seen a game with this setup where the teams did not win together?
2) How do you imagine this works if one team is eliminated?-
Titus
-
Titus She/her/hersMoon Walker Titus She/her/hers
- Moon Walker
- Moon Walker
- Posts: 75991
- Joined: May 3, 2013
- Pronoun: She/her/hers
- Contact:
BM, shut up. I am trying to plan with the town a surefire road to victory.
Ok Magua, fair enough, I am going to suppose you have. If you have it back, use it on your biggest scumsuspect who is not likely to be lynched within the next day to two as we need to slow down the kills. Naut and I are ok if you are compulsive, lack suspects, and don't want to hurt us, as I have no further abilities and Naut should not.ShowThe scum had the misfortune of Titus being absurdly accurate on day one.Really quite impressed by that.~Drixx
You're letting Titus win the game by herself.Good luck now I guess.You have no chance to win.~Tywin
GTKTitus Part 2
Titus Academy
Friend, Enemies, and That Other Person is now in signups. Click here to sign up.
VLA Friday nights until Sunday morning.-
ooba
-
ooba Jack of All Trades ooba
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 5616
- Joined: September 14, 2007
- Location: Outpost 31
If I have to say 4 more Chaos - my money's on Alfred+Alchemist+Messiah+Cephir (Alternatively I can see Nautilus playing a great game and replacing Cephrir for the fourth slot)
Spoiler: Coloured VC for 6 Chaos
Six seems a bit high so I'd speculate 5 normal + 1 traitor.
Colors for my theory teams if anyone wants to take a look
Spoiler: Coloured VC for 3 Evil, 3 Chaos-
Benmage
-
Benmage SurvivorBenmage
- Survivor
- Survivor
- Posts: 13727
- Joined: December 20, 2008
I wasnt being a dick with the Magua comment... that said you're 'surefire road to victory' comment... well..In post 5682, Titus wrote:BM, shut up. I am trying to plan with the town a surefire road to victory.
"ITT Benmage is making Shakespeare look cool. I need to bring you to my high school." -Vi
"If i must blantantly follow somone a player cannot do better than blindly following benmage" - tubby216-
Cephrir
-
Cephrir he/himGoodfellas / Best Social Game
Cephrir he/him- Goodfellas / Best Social Game
- Goodfellas / Best Social Game
- Posts: 22778
- Joined: October 11, 2006
- Pronoun: he/him
- Location: Seattle-ish
Benmage. Fucking. Fullclaim. Now.
Off the top of my head I would pick a scumteam of Messiah, Alchemist, Benmage and I guess Alfred for lack of a fourth suspect, but I could see virtually anyone in that spot atm.
Then again, I have been dead wrong on quite a few players this game, so as I said before I need to reset. The only read I'm pretty confident I'll keep is SD town.
The issue of course being I'm in the midst of literally the busiest week of my entire life right now."I would prefer not to." --Herman Melville,Bartleby the Scrivener-
Cephrir
-
Cephrir he/himGoodfellas / Best Social Game Cephrir he/him
- Goodfellas / Best Social Game
- Goodfellas / Best Social Game
- Posts: 22778
- Joined: October 11, 2006
- Pronoun: he/him
- Location: Seattle-ish
-
Shadoweh
-
Shadoweh Idol Hands Shadoweh
- Idol Hands
- Idol Hands
- Posts: 4276
- Joined: November 9, 2011
I hate you so much. What's your actual role. Didn't you spend yesterday laughing at people for following ooba's claim and making fun of him for it? Did it just seem like a super good idea to have yet another faked lynch or something? Why the fuck did you think that was a good idea? Your excuse being that someone has to be scum is not reasoning, it's insanity.I HATE YOU SO MUCH PLEASE GO JUMP INTO A FREEZING LAKE - Mr. Freeze
And this was like me realizing that you were a serial killer. - Hathor
"but I must declare my love to Edelgard here, i offer you the treasure I stole from Raphael, an idol LOL" - Shamir-
Nautilius
-
Nautilius Goon Nautilius
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 899
- Joined: April 5, 2010
Benmage is the type of player who hard fakeclaims and town and thus I don't really find it the most compelling thing to lynch him because he pulls bullshit like this.In post 5628, Alfred Borden wrote:Benmage does not belong to the category of people who get to hardfakeclaim1v1 and then be allowed to live.
Also, he is scum.
And if Benmage is killed, then do you drop your theory? I will also point out that the alternating kill theory isn't exactly balanced for either scumteam; a crosskill would be absolutely killer, considering they need to get 7 mislynches like they are a full team but only have three people to do it. It's much much much more likely we're only dealing with a single team here.In post 5631, ooba wrote:You want evidence of the two scumteams - you lynch Benmage. Not my fault both teams can't crosskill properly.
I know that I have my part to play in all of this; I take full responsibility for it.In post 5633, SafetyDance wrote:
You pushed the boulder that started the avalanche.In post 5616, Nautilius wrote:This game pisses me off so horribly based on how beautifully it started that I am probably willing to burn a policy lynch today. On Syryana. And Jesus fuck I never thought I would say that.
Have not forgotten who created that 1v1 against town....and is still here.-
Titus
-
Titus She/her/hersMoon Walker Titus She/her/hers
- Moon Walker
- Moon Walker
- Posts: 75991
- Joined: May 3, 2013
- Pronoun: She/her/hers
- Contact:
Naut, how do you feel about a you me, Magua, SD townblock and rebuild from there?ShowThe scum had the misfortune of Titus being absurdly accurate on day one.Really quite impressed by that.~Drixx
You're letting Titus win the game by herself.Good luck now I guess.You have no chance to win.~Tywin
GTKTitus Part 2
Titus Academy
Friend, Enemies, and That Other Person is now in signups. Click here to sign up.
VLA Friday nights until Sunday morning.-
Titus
-
Titus She/her/hersMoon Walker Titus She/her/hers
- Moon Walker
- Moon Walker
- Posts: 75991
- Joined: May 3, 2013
- Pronoun: She/her/hers
- Contact:
Forgot Shadoweh. He's town too.ShowThe scum had the misfortune of Titus being absurdly accurate on day one.Really quite impressed by that.~Drixx
You're letting Titus win the game by herself.Good luck now I guess.You have no chance to win.~Tywin
GTKTitus Part 2
Titus Academy
Friend, Enemies, and That Other Person is now in signups. Click here to sign up.
VLA Friday nights until Sunday morning.-
Benmage
-
Benmage
-
Nautilius
-
Nautilius Goon Nautilius
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 899
- Joined: April 5, 2010
Case #2 is made because a player wasn't making an effort to narrow the list of scumreads (doesn't make a whole lot of sense, considering Syryana had a small scum pool when he made his list and didn't appear to be making an effort to increase his pool of scumreads).In post 1096, Syryana wrote:Problem #1: 3000 fucking scumreads. Scummy by itself? No. Scummy when considered of the context that he's done jack fuck to narrow the list? Hell fuck yes.
Problem #2: Reaction to scumslip. As town, when somebody else goes up to me and says "LOL YOU SCUMSLIPT LOL", the immediate town reaction (in my humble 13er opinion) is some variant of "lolthefuckyousmokintierce".
What did we get? "What? I scumslipped? Where?" *looks for scumslip for 20 minutes* "Oh, you mean that?" *proceeds to overexplain scumslip*
Hmm...
Problem #3: Best reasoning for anybody being in his scumlist is "X is most likely to flip scum." No reason X is scum. No indication of thought process. No indication of scumhunting. Hell, corollary to that, there's no reason anybody in his list is any alignment. The moral of the story: THERE'S NO INDICATION OF THOUGHT PROCESS OR ANY KIND OF ALIGNMENT HUNTING IN HIS READS LIST OR ISO.
Questions?
The scumslip reaction point is decent, but nothing that gives me confidence he could possibly be town.
The no indication of alignment hunting in his ISO is decent, maybe, but it also ignores a lot of lurkfucks.
And, number three! It's not an absolutely horrible case, but it's based mostly on gut.In post 1133, Syryana wrote:As for Cephrir, my primary reason for scumreading him is because I recently saw him up close and personal as town, and this ain'tnothinlike I saw him play.
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go
It's a bit of reading, but Ceph is laid-back, personable, pops his reads out here and there, scumhunts in a leisurely fashion, etc.
Here? His tone's completely different; he's very serious, almost formal. He's been super serious in his interactions and has been almost totally oblivious to the tempo of the thread; none of the playful banter present in 527, ignoring all the trolling going on, etc. Hell, he's so profoundly literal this game that he latches onto my mollie troll, takes it seriously, and proceeds to agree with the dislike of lurkingright after saying he's seen nothing townish from me.(which is another reason i think he's scum but it helps my tone point so dealwithit)
His ISO also feels superficial as hell. Like, I dunno how better to describe it. It's that he's trying so HARD to look town. I feel like it's all an act. There's a bunch of on the surface scumhunting, but I don't get a thought process from it. It's just a bunch of stuff. Take his Nautilus read for example. He's got Nacho as "town as fuck", yet in his ISO he interacts with them in one post. In that post, he gives a bunch of responses to Nautilus, but reading them doesn't really give me that good "holy shit I think Nacho is so fucking town" feeling. This is true of much in his reads list; the people he takes stances on are ones he's hardly interacted with and the ones he's interacted with the most (i.e. Thor) is in his null list!
In short, Cephrir isn't playing the way I know he plays as town, he's too serious, and his ISO is devoid of any kind of discernible thought process.
Now, these three posts constitute the majority of content in Syryana's ISO, if not the entirety of anything worth reading. But, if we're looking for nuggets:
I don't think that this is something Syryana says to a townTierce. I don't think that Syryana would fire back when he knows he's lazy and playing like shit to the whole "well you've mislynched people!". In HunterxHunter when he got lazy as fuck, I do remember him pulling a bit of a "oh hello hello I'm being lazy as fuck so kill me" act, but never do I remember him ignoring the fact that he isn't doing shit and discrediting someone else (a friend, no less) and saying that they are mislynching people.In post 2690, The Alchemist wrote:
Considering you've come out of hiding purely to mislynch two, almost three townies now, you're running a great track record yourself.In post 2688, Tierce wrote:Oh, please. That is a hell of a push on AGar, truly impressive.
This reads a bit strange to me, considering he wasn't pushing any sort of case on quadz earlier (when I was suggesting that I no longer thought quadz was town for shitty moonlogic, Syryana event went "well a bunch of other people were pushing moonlogic earlier"). He'd later jump onto quadz, sure, but the timing of this is still pretty strange.
And then, immediately after this, he suggests quadz is town again for claim. We all know Syryana has a weak point for calling his partners town for their fakeclaims when they probably won't get lynched when they make them, but the complete readflip is again a bit strange.In post 3723, The Alchemist wrote:
There you go. As to your question of does it make sense to have all that shit on one side, nope nope nope (scum would get REKT, town would be essentially vanilla against all that)! Dive gracefully into the rabbit-hole, ex-wife!In post 3710, Tammy wrote:Alchemist - you know what I am. Taking into account a swingy upick that has some claimed bastardish time elements, and taking into account roles before alignments, what do you think the likelihood of me(Town!), a macho cop(Town!), a permanent roleblocker(Town!), a global roleblocker(Scumfuck!), and a joat with a roleblock(Scumfuck!)all being on the same team is! I might need help before I jump down the rabbit hole.
And again, a case of not the response I was expecting. Me saying that I was going to policy lynch Syryana was more of a testing for reactions as opposed to a serious charge (I happily defended the fuck out of him in HunterxHunter because he was infinite town then), but him sort of shrugging at my suggestion and going with "yeah you're a bit too late on that one" seems less like a normal reaction to me and more like a lazy scum reaction because he knows he still has a decent chance of surviving a couple more days thanks to noise noise noise.In post 5604, The Alchemist wrote:
Yer like four Days late on that one mate.In post 5603, Nautilius wrote:The part that resonated with me is that he usually gives up when guilted this late in the game. I'm probably going to lynch Syryana tomorrow regardless of what the hell happens.-
Eddard Stark
-
Eddard Stark Mafia Scum Eddard Stark
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 1378
- Joined: May 10, 2010
- Location: Not the crypt.
-
Nautilius
-
Nautilius Goon Nautilius
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 899
- Joined: April 5, 2010
Second piece of the case on him is this. Quadz, on N3, hadn't killed anyone. Now quadz on N3 hadn't under an approximate fuckton of pressure, but he wasn't at all in a better position than any of his other scumteam members. Zdenek? Ooba? Benmage? Cephrir? No, no, no. What would make sense is Alchemist submitting the kills because he's a ninja, and quadz not doing so as a result. This theory would make kkb's results useless, but I think it makes sense given the quadz result on N3 especially (and maybe even the alfred result for some of you for still suspect the hell out of him).In post 5240, kanyeknowsbest wrote:n1 elle had not killed anyone
n2 goat had not killed anyone
n3 quadz had not killed anyone
n4 pnj, resulted in "VICTARION"
n5 alfred had not killed anyone
n6 ceph had not killed anyone
There is a hoop to jump through in order to believe Alchemist-scum that comes in the form of Tammy and "why give coin to town?", but let's talk about both of those things now. For one, immediately jumping out of the neighborhood with Tammy in order to be a useless shit and pretend to be not-Syryana is scummy. Why not use his free vig kill as an additional scumkill? Well, there is the matter of being neighborized by Tammy before he could even give it away, needing something to claim, and then not being able to make a magical kill appear without Tammy being dead. Scumteam might have had different priorities Night 1, didn't want to kill Tammy like that, so Syryana went for the towncred route. It's also a bit... strange? He waited so long to give his coin away/didn't look for someone to give his coin to? If town, he would be wanting to pass his coin off early and get a kill early, but talk of passing it off only came after he claimed, which again is strange.-
Nautilius
-
Nautilius Goon Nautilius
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 899
- Joined: April 5, 2010
Meta Reasons:
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go
Here is a newbie game where Syryana quickhammered a jailkeeper on D1 in a newbie game. There are his normal townmarkers of posting more content in this newbie game than he has in a 228 page Large Theme with a great playerlist, but the biggest takeaway that I got from his play in this game is his play after the quickhammer; he realizes that he did something stupid, plays townie as hell and ends up getting nightkilled because of his aggression and the fact that he managed to outplay so many others despite the bumpy start that would get most players lynched. I think that Syryana does care about the town when he plays, and is willing to admit where he's experiencing failings in his play and adjust as a result; the fact we're seeing no such evidence here is alarming as hell.
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go
Here is an open game where I ended up pegging the fuck out of him D1 for "not trolling". I think this scumgame significantly changed Syryana's scumgame in a way where he realized that opening "feelings" were just as important to his scumgame as producing words and pushing lynches were. It would explain why his opening was so trolly, so playful; he might have been trying to avoid the pitfall that happened this game. I will also note that his content is a bit lacking in this game (in part due to V/LA, but also in part due to being scum), although he did end up producing more content in this scumgame than he has here (which isn't a good thing, I promise you).
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go
This is an old but pretty impressive scumgame of Syryana's. The similarities in this game compared to that game are the periods of inbetween, where he doesn't feel so much like posting. He doesn't mind coasting for short periods of time when he can get away with it, doesn't mind bussing a partner whenever they fuck up. Multiball, so easier to legitimately scumhunt.
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go
Jokey opening, nothing else of import, replaced out.
No content! (scum)
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go
Lazy as fuck, no content, busses a fuckton. Also uses a similar "I will help you bus" attack on our slot that is voting scum which reminds me of the Titus attack elsewhere in the game.
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go
Another town game, another demonstration of more content than he's posted in this game.
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go
Another towngame, has decent posting. #478 blows all of the posts that he's made in this game completely out of the water, meaning that it's yet another towngame where he's posted more content there than he has here.
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go
This scumgame he has a similar light opening to this one, once again fails to post any content.
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go
Confirmable town, has a hell of a day 1 where he dumps an approximate fuckton content into thread Day 1 (again more content than he's posted in this game).
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go
HunterxHunter Mafia, the closest game that I compare to his play in this one, but the end result isn't actually very close for two reasons. 1) Syryana made a giant case on me and pursued it for a very, very long time. Secondly, the town was stomp thwomping the fuck out of the game and he fell off and lurked because busy, but even then he never expressed the same attitude he did here, instead adopting a bit of a "kill me, this is absolute trash" attitude.
So, as you can see, there's a trend of him posting more content in one day of any of his towngames that he's posted in this current game that is on Day 9. I think that his Day 1, in the end, is sort of townish based on the trolling and the smooth interactions with people, but I think that interaction is at a level he can fake and is comfortable faking. I know that he has been getting apathetic with mafia as of late, but I don't see his apathy not translating into any kind of guilt and instead into a blame-shifting game like it has in his reactions to Tierce, and I don't see him posting so motivated on D1 yet somehow managing not to produce any of the content that is so consistently present in his towngames. I could see him posting to a lower level in later days maybe for a little while, but this being the last game that he will most likely play for his break, I can't see him neglecting everything so thoroughly, so completely unless he is scum. There's also his behavior in and of itself; he's willing to push for his own directions and yell at people when they don't follow him, why? He never expressed that kind of attitude in any of his towngames. He's shown pretty much zero signs of his normal "I've fucked up, either I gotta die or step up my game" attitude that I would be expecting if he were actually town in this game. He's also nudged along weak not perfect reasoning for him being town and jumped on wagons in an opportunistic way that didn't happen the last time he was lazy town.-
Nautilius
-
Nautilius Goon Nautilius
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 899
- Joined: April 5, 2010
In the end, we're looking at this game of Syryana's being the worst town game he's ever played (despite strong motivation on Day 1 + a playerlist where a large majority of them are sounding boards that should be working with him excellently). The fact that his coin wasn't used as a scumvig is a point to him being town that is explained by him being neighborized by Tammy so early and being expected to fullclaim quickly (in which case, saying that he was a ninja with a one-shot commute probably wouldn't cut it). I can't see him reacting the way he has a couple of ways as town, and I don't see why he wouldn't have hit his stride somewhere in this game, despite him finding a way to hit his stride in literally every other towngame ever.
Vote: The Alchemist
This is where I strongly feel we should go today.-
Nautilius
-
Nautilius Goon Nautilius
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 899
- Joined: April 5, 2010
I still think Alfred Borden is town. I see Empire posting that I'm fairly confident that he cannot fake as scum, I also present to you this:
Which is the strongest endorsement I have ever seen Tammy give of anyone ever.In post 4936, Tammy wrote:Nacho darling, I hope you're happy for what I'm about to put myself through. Also, quote stripes. *shudder*
He interacted with me immediately and followed my line of thought regarding kanye.In post 35, Alfred Borden wrote:(You should watch the movie. You'll change your mind, promise.)
Also, would you judge me if I said kanye made me swoon?
He's doing a dance about being town here. He tried trolling Marble about their alignment and failed. I know, because we talked before the game, that he would have been miserable drawing scum here. Well, he's just miserable drawing scum anywhere because he hates it, but him joking about trolling his hydra partner when I know he was looking forward to hydraing with Marble because he respects how well he can scumhunt makes sense if he's town.In post 5, Alfred Borden wrote:Are you watching closely?
Vote: Stupendous Man
With this hydra, you're going to be getting Llamarble posting at weird hours while I stick mostly to the morning/afternoon.
Also, we won't be signing our posts as we feel our styles are distinctive enough that you should be able to tell who is who.
Also also, I tried trolling 'marble about our alignment in this game but it failed miserably =/
Two things. Only slight thing of concern is that he likes to bus, but this could just as genuinely be him scumreading quadz and being right.In post 295, Alfred Borden wrote:
I remember not too long after #194, Llamarble pointed it out to me and we both had the same kneejerk "WOW LOOK AT THE OBVSCUM" reaction. I'll do my best to sum up our AIM convo about quadz but it basically ended up resulting in this:In post 243, Tammy wrote:But I also don't think much of the quadz wagon. However, he's easy to read, yeah? Empire? I mean I know you guys are voting there, but he doesn't seem off the wall to me?
-> Llamarble found the post scummy because something either is a slip or it isn't; he found the "this looks like a slip" comment to be scummy because scum want to go after things that :look like: slips in order to bolster the credibility of their votes and make them appear more believable.
-> I hate to use the "o" word here, but personally, I found his vote opportunistic given the above "slip" logic. Scum tend to care a lot more about making sure their actions appear justified in the eyes of everyone at large so I feel like he shoved the slip logic in there for that reason.
-> Shadoweh already pointed it out, but I really dislike his unvote in #213. Seems more like a backpedal after he began drawing some heat for it rather than it being a genuine "my bad". #227 doesn't make sense either since there's plenty of scum motivation in unvoting once something like 4 people react to the vote negatively.
As far as elleheathen goes, both of us really disliked #110 -- lots of stuff had happened between that post and her first one, so her coming returning to the thread again only to comment on a fairly throwaway post by PB was fairly shitty. Llamarble also thought her responses to the wagon felt like scum responses ("huh what I do" -> "that's not worth voting me for", which I agree because it implies that the conclusion, e.g. that she herself is scum, is true). However, #282 seemed townish to me and I want to give your game a good once over since I didn't really follow it while it was ongoing (and I definitely want to get 'marble's second opinion as well). The "Wight" discussion went way over my head because I know almost nothing about the flavor and it completely slipped my mind to ask Llamarble what that was all about >_>
Oh you have absolutely no idea how much I was dreading opening that PM box and I think the sheer force of my sigh of relief when I saw I was town caused extensive property damage to my immediate area. Plus, you know I wouldn't be posting as scum as I'd have already drowned in an ocean of my own tears so I'm pretty obvtown already.In post 247, Tierce wrote:I had hoped Empire would draw scum for my long-delayed revenge.
But look at his response to Tierce here. I like the way he responded to Tierce and called himself obvtown. He'd most likely do it as scum too because it would be expected, but it wouldn't feel natural. The drowning in an ocean of his own tears thing reads real.
This is the way empire talks about his suspects. Also, the shadoweh thing reads real because we had just been playing in Wingate where Empire defended and town read a scum!Shadoweh.In post 297, Alfred Borden wrote:
The meta reference thing didn't really resonate with me here because it's pretty easy for an experienced player to fake and there wasn't a whole lot of meat to it.In post 296, Tammy wrote:What did you think about him making a meta reference concerning me and the difference in behavior in his experience?
Also, do you have a read on shadoweh yet?
As far as Shadoweh goes, not really. Too early for it and I frankly don't trust my ability to read her.
I loved this "Nacho your catchup was crap, please towninate faster" because that was exactly how I felt with Nacho's entrance. Also, Nacho would be one of the people that Empire would expect to be able to read him, so I'm not sure how much he would call attention to him this way. I mean I think he might say *something* to Nacho, but not in this way.In post 353, Alfred Borden wrote:Almost done with this letter I've been writing! I'll move on to the consolidated reads list/meta stuff tonight.
[In post 312, Thor665 wrote:
@Nacho:I expected way more blazing glory from your catch up and I feel very unfulfilled =/ Please please please towninate faster.
Also, what do you think of Andy and his PR in particular? (I have meta markers for him but it's tough for me to find stuff while looking through it personally.)
Town. Scum!Empire doesn't check the game while standing in line at a restaurant/fast food place and feel compelled to comment like this. Town!Empire thinks about the games he's in nonstop. He checks the games while he's out and he posts because the game is on his mind. Scum!Empire doesn't really care a whole lot about the games he's in so his check ins are much more methodical than this. This tells me he cared and is far more likely town.In post 372, Alfred Borden wrote:
I'm waiting in line at a Chipotle but I just want to say, holy fucking shit, my kingdom for a doublevote right now.In post 370, StupendousMan wrote:@Tammy- Care to elaborate on that vote?
Hmm... nope.In post 367, Shadoweh wrote:I wish people would townread me for being snippy.
I'm cutting out all the reads because this stupid quote stripe wall is going to be long and cluttered enough, but his trying to connect with Nacho on his reads and put his out there and see where Nacho is wrong felt real. I'm just not so sure that scum!Empire interacts with a town!Nacho in his reads this way.In post 613, Alfred Borden wrote:@Nacho:Let's talk about some stuff while I'm still around (well, I'll have to reply to it later but you know what I mean <_<).
He sounds irritated that someone is discounting his reads in this way. I just don't know if he would interact with a buddy this way. He values the time he puts into a mafia game, and takes it really seriously, I can totally see him getting irritated that it was discounted as "noise" and "substanceless".In post 614, Alfred Borden wrote:
Yawn.In post 607, PeaceBringer wrote:did you not get maybe culture, when you are used to the noise factor it is not quite as noted but there was nothing of meaning there...just space. There is a lot of that... please note I come from where no one really explains thoughts and a paragraph would be considered a lot of detail... it is quite different than when I played before where there was a distinct lack of noise or any real engagement... but that is a side note, just to me came off as a lot of words with little meaning
I write lots of words because I actually value complete transparency and engagement, especially when the game's of this size (it becomes easier to miss things). Sometimes, I'll direct things at specific people because either I'm trying to sort the player in question out or I'm trying to see where that person is coming from on a particular read (especially if the player in question is someone I've played with a lot/trust/respect).
But thanks for dismissing my actual thoughts/method as "noise" and "substanceless". Really fucking appreciated.
Here he is pointing out towntells for himself. There are some things that I just don't see scum!Empire having the *balls* to say. This is one of them.In post 617, Alfred Borden wrote:Anyway, I need to go over the Thor/Benmage argument once more when I come back since I haven't looked too deeply into it, as well as finally sort out the meta stuff.
Also, Syryana, your vote actually rather sucks and you need to step it up. Pretty sure I've posted a lot about my balls. Those are pretty slam dunk towntells here.
ab wrote: P-edit: above applies to you too Thor (also, I'm thinking Benmage and Amrun are probtown from what I've read).
Also, really natural trolling of me. I think he'd troll me regardless, but this sounded playful.In post 908, Alfred Borden wrote:
Maybe later, I'm huntingIn post 718, Syryana wrote:MacTammyTierceEmpireThorNastyrashaNacho vote this with me plswabbitscats. Also, you could have done way better than Tammy. Way to suck.
I love love love this post and connection with Mollie. Also, what he brings up is true. He had just taken a 3 month hiatus from mafia due to studying for the bar exams. He missed playing mafia during that time and even before that time had felt like he was sucking at mafia. I just don't see his first game back, after the hiatus with a person he was looking forward to hydraing with, making the posts he has as scum.In post 933, Alfred Borden wrote:Holy shit, I don't think I can ever even bring myself to suspect mollie after #895. Call me a sucker or whatever but that shit was just way too genuine and just hit way too close to home.
Spoiler: An Empire Mafia Autobiography
A moment of marble being adorable.In post 1282, Alfred Borden wrote:It's 4am so I'm just going to go through a few people.
Agar is probably town. Scumhunting energy pattern. Andrius' replace out post was a townping too.
Also since Empire wrote most of our posts I probably haven't corrupted the TET daymasonizing system
Amrun might actually be scum. Will revisit when sentient.
I'll have to check the timeline, but this all of a sudden determination that Thor being scum might fit with the Cross-site game in which Thor was scum.In post 1546, Alfred Borden wrote:Hey, I've adventured so far as to attempt eggs with salsa and candycorn. Also I once made a fish and on one half I melted half a hershey bar and on the other half I melted some brie. Neither half was really improved though.
And one time I gave some underclassmen bars of soap and they had to not drop them during the duration of a Prison themed scavenger hunt with shivs and rock breaking.
In other news, Thor is pretty opaque and could be scum.
This feels like the way that Empire reacts to someone he thinks is town but just bad.In post 1668, Alfred Borden wrote:Unvote
Oh my god, I want this guy to be scum so so fucking badly but I just can't bring myself to keep my vote on him. Based on what I know of him, I'll be absolutely fucking floored if he's reacting this way as scum.
Thor's probably the least bad of the major wagons right now since my last talk with 'marble had lessened my scumread on ooba considerably.
Vote: Thor
One of 'marble/myself will be around near deadline, I think, if anything happens.
P-edit: Really kanye? In that one scum game I looked at, this dude pretty much awkwardly clammed up under pressure. The reaction here is like night and day.
No reason whatsoever to try to talk me down from my frustration. As scum, he'd probably find me getting so irritated hilarious and might give a nominal "Tammy you should calm down" but I think that he'd find the noise appreciable whereas as town he'd want me to come down off the ledge and focus.In post 1669, Alfred Borden wrote:Tammy, if you read this, you need to seriously step away for a bit and calm down. This reminds me exactly of how mad I got at Saki in Xenologue to the point where I ended up not giving a shit about the dude's alignment and that ended up at least partially contributing to the loss there. Regfan went and pointed out every single one of Saki's towntells after it was over and I felt like an idiot (well, to a point).
SafetyDance just flat out isn't scum and I think you'll be able to see that once you go over this recent stuff again.
This happened.
Feels incredibly town. Also, this happened so.In post 2074, Alfred Borden wrote:
Well, the obvtownie fun club is pretty exclusive. I just checked your background and it would seem that after games like Wingate Mansion you are, in fact, not the kind we're looking for (on a more serious note, this is why I'm just deferring to my other head completely on you). Also, this dragon is in a bit of a funk after Tammy rejected us so sorry, you're going to have to wait for us to learn to love again.In post 1951, Shadoweh wrote:Tierce what do I have to do to join this TET thing you guys have going, doesn't TETS just roll off the tongue? Would I have to stop being really good at fooling you all specifically into townreading me, is that what the problem is? Tammy and Empire probably hate me again but I haven't done anything to you lately! Well, that's not technically true but etc.
Tammy shutup, how could I have suspected that Llamarble and Empire combined was anything but a hunk of man meat?! I mean come the fuck on! (actually I kind of thought if King of the Seals was a miller then finding a not-human was a possible scum result, so I wasn't asking ahead of time. >_> ) Besides, I'm not marrying anyone, it's more like oh giggity yes.
He thought it was CES and he was excited. He likes playing with CES and really respects his ability as a scumhunter. I can't imagine Empire being happy that CES replaced into a game where he was in a scum hydra with Marble as he would expect to be caught instantly.In post 2078, Alfred Borden wrote:
I never was, I'm just stoked that that player (if I'm right anyway) replaced someone I had a townread on for reasons I don't want to get into right now. Worded it poorly probably because I'm not 100% here mentally right now.In post 2077, macmollie wrote:when were you scumreading syrlacious?
Also, re: that alt being cryptic/roleplaying/whatever, I don't think so; there's only one player on the site who posts like that.
Town.In post 2427, Alfred Borden wrote:
This bit just bugs the ever living shit out of me and I have no idea why and I hate myself for it.In post 2385, Shadoweh wrote:I've been considering what to say because ooba's responses have made me a little more depressed at the idea of an ooba wagon working, also because I don't think they're bad, even if I agree with like.. none of his reads beyond the obvious ones. Come on ooba, just admit your Messiah case is better and stop joining the hammer outrage, it makes you look bad in general.
He thought he was interacting with CES here; this feels natural and not at all nervous.af wrote:
Well, the main reason I asked is because Llamarble and I have been going back and forth on it. Honestly, every time I take a look at his ISO, I do get some townpings. I liked the bit where he talked about how he wanted to be more careful in reading Tierce as it was a pretty stark contrast to the way he approached my slot in The Game That Won't Be Mentioned where he just basically excessively sucked up to us. As far as the PR thing goes, I don't know, my impression is that he wouldn't have the balls to fake it as scum "to prove a point" either. Basically what I guess I'm asking with all of this is do you really think he's competent enough to fake this the way that he did? Because my impression from That Game was that he's actually really bad at scum.In post 2423, The Alchemist wrote:Glass Towers, I don't have much meaningful to add to Nautilus' analysis of Andrius. Though for the sake of concision: Andrius' play was null. I see nothing in his ISO that's beyond his faking abilities as scum.
Don't think this is how he'd give up a perfect opportunity to bus.af wrote:
Don't feel like it, sorry m8.In post 2424, Zdenek wrote:You should probably just vote for Spyrex.
Really really natural way to discuss with me my reads and tell me I was wrong. Also, bonus for you who think it's only day one we're town reading them off of, this is day three. I cut off the part where he goes into details about the reads he disagrees with me on, but you can follow that if you want.In post 2614, Alfred Borden wrote:Ugh, had a rough weekend so sorry for my lack of engagement recently. On a positive note though, I don't think I've been happier to see lots of pages in this thread than I am now. I'm staying up all of today to reset my sleeping schedule so expect more hours in this game with this half of Your Favorite Magician.
Ok, you and I need to talk because I've been townreading a lot of the people in your suspect pool and I want to know what's up here:In post 2515, Tammy wrote:Town: Benmage, Cephrir, Garruk, Goat, Messiah, Shadoweh, Tierce,
Probably Town: Alfred, quads, the alchemist, zdenek, nautillus, safetydance
i will lynch any of: SPYREX, elle, ooba, prideandjoy, kanye, (at least on scum is in my town reads...I need to reread)
So yes, his last two hammers sucked and marble could be bringing with the adorable and thompstopping any second now, but I've been through their iso several times and I just keep finding more and more posts that ring town. Like if they're scum here, I'll congratulate him for going god tier after a hiatus, in a game where he'd hate to draw scum, with people he'd hate to be scum against, but I just don't see it happening here.
TET has been a reliable thing for a few years, the scummiest things Alfred Borden has done include hammering which people think is scummy because of dumb CHAOS LADDER theories. Llamarble has not had very energetic posting as of late, but he's known to lack energetic posting in his towngames (see: Crosstown #1 in MTGS) and I don't think that on its own is enough to call him scummy because scum.
I would also like to know why the Desp head of the Messiah Complex hydra is ignoring Tammy's STRONG STRONG endorsement of Empire-town.-
Nautilius
-
Nautilius
-
Nautilius
-
Nautilius Goon Nautilius
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 899
- Joined: April 5, 2010
First thing that concerns me about the Messiah Complex hydra is that they currently have less than a post per page and I can't remember anything that they've posted recently. The current people hitting less than a post per page are:
Alfred Borden (Empire/Llamarble) - Concerning, would be more concerning if Empire was still in the game. I can see Llamarble-town having trouble getting into a game where his partner who was doing the lion's share of the work abandoned him.
elleheathen Magua - elle flaked for a hell of a while, Magua is a replacement, not surprising.
Messiah Complex (Desperado/Formerfish)
ooba - generally a low rate poster, not a concern.
SafetyDance - generally a low rate poster, not a concern.
Shadoweh - I figured she would have more posts by now, but :hitoshrug:
The Alchemist - lurking scum which explains low postcount
Messiah Complex most likely shouldn't be close to this postrate. He should be a leader by now because the list is getting pretty fucking small and the game is getting pretty fucking close to the bad stages, but he's not. This is concerning. Not a smoking gun quite yet, but concerning in a bad way considering the last large games I remember him in he had postcounts like this and this (lurkfuck game) and this (incredibly lurky Desperado-town) and this, and I wouldn't expect him to lose an incredible amount of energy and good posting like he has lately.
Copyright © MafiaScum. All rights reserved.
-
-
