A uPick of Ice & Fire - Day 12 - #REKT?

[Titus]

Naut

riddle me this. In what game could a town llamarable/empire hydra be alive Day 9?

Riddle?

Tierce a threat? Doing nothing? Tammy a threat? Doing nothing... Oh right.. cause llamarable empire is scum. Period. Riddle riddle.

I know I am not Naut but that question has obvious answers. 1) Scum likely tried to kill him or 2) Scum are killing the useful players and they haven't been useful.

[Magua]

Alchemist claimed scum. There's no way we're not lynching him today unless someone else wants to claim scum.

But don't fucking put him at L-1 because I want to read Nautilus' magnum opus because Lord knows I do not feel Alfred can be town *at all*.

[ooba]

I'll bite. Give me the reads without their being 2 scum teams, and I will too.

Your turn.

[Nautilius]

Well, that was fascinating.

Can I die now? Please?

A man can only hope.

- The first part - "Tammy contacting him early made him full-claim" is a stretch - maybe worth seeing how much he\his scum teams talk fake claims in his earlier games. The fact that he waited is a decent point but I can see me having the same role and waiting out D1 for flips. D2 was a non-day because Amrun speedmislynch.

Town-Syryana neighborized by Town-Tammy would be expected to fullclaim. He doesn't need to talk fakeclaims with his scumpartners at all because roles =/= alignments. For example, I believe quadz told the complete truth about his role, minus the whole being scum part.

I *can* see Alchemist being ultra lazy town. (RL circumstances can really bog someone's game down; granted I need to read meta and other ongoing too to get a baseline). Can I suggest a compromise? You think Messiah has good chances to be scum. I think Messiah has good chances to be scum in both the 6-Chaos (since the conviction on SpyreX = a likely bus is good) and a bonus for the 3-evil theory as well.

At least Alchemist has the coin that needs explaining away - Messiah has really done nothing protown (leading a lynch, suspicion, role based) that comes to mind. Give TA a day - lynch Messiah today.

Read those links; you'll see what I'm talking about. The coin isn't something that really needs a whole lot of explaining away, and considering Syryana claimed scum after the case on him, well.

Naut riddle me this. In what game could a town llamarable/empire hydra be alive Day 9?

In a game where scumteam misses 4 kills, I can see Empire/Llamarble being alive pretty late into the game.

The big question for now is, how can you have Ooba AND Benmage in your townpile considering their play and how does that attest to Syry?

I don't think ooba's fake guilty was scum motivated. I think it was stupid, but I don't think it was scum motivated.
Reasons for ooba being town are in a really really big post.

Benmage fake guilties as town a lot, doesn't really pull the same shit as scum. I'll probably read into him later, but I think that both fake guilties came from stupid, townish places. Why do one of them have to be scum?

I know I am not Naut but that question has obvious answers. 1) Scum likely tried to kill him or 2) Scum are killing the useful players and they haven't been useful.

Did you see the case I made on you?

because I want to read Nautilus' magnum opus because Lord knows I do not feel Alfred can be town *at all*.

post #4890
+
Tammy-post.

[Cephrir]

functionally vla until the 22nd

[The Alchemist]

Considering I've wanted to be dead since, like, Day 5, how is me wanting to be dead now claiming scum?

[SafetyDance]

It's not you claiming town

[Benmage]

Naut riddle me this. In what game could a town llamarable/empire hydra be alive Day 9?

In a game where scumteam misses 4 kills, I can see Empire/Llamarble being alive pretty late into the game.

Over Tammy who spent her last day voteless... Over Tierce who spent her last day going la-la-la I have no scum reads....like holy shit... WAKE THE FUCK UP.

[Benmage]

I'll bite. Give me the reads without their being 2 scum teams, and I will too.

Your turn.

This will be an exercise in futility. But for your little hearts content:

Alfred/Alch/Shadoweh/MC

[Titus]

SD, one of the two fake cops needs to die. Join us on BM, then we can deal with/focus on ooba?

[Benmage]

Titus... wake up to everyone who knows me. Don't be so stubborn. Try to elevate yourself above what anger or emotion your feeling.. They blind you at this game. There was ZERO scum rationale to fake claim...So just try and think a little more.

***You're pleading SD to vote me, lynch me today... so tomorrow you can also lynch ooba. This either reads as a scum claim. Or just the stupidest statement ever.

You think the scum team did back to back fakeclaims?

Really...

FARADAY

[Titus]

Benmage, I think one of you is scum. You are the bigger threat and most likely fake claimer IMO. Ooba is a useless spaced out guy if town. However, that can be corrected. Being a prick cannot. One of you is scum. I doubt two fake claimers are also town. There is rationale for your fake claim. Ooba fake claims. Scum you sees he's not getting lynched, decides to fake claim to take out another target. I would have bought whichever of you claimed insane but neither of you are.

[Shadoweh]

What Benmage is saying is kinda why I agree it's weird Alfred is still alive despite those good days. Now if only he would stop avoiding claiming and stop pairing me with Alfred. >_>

[Benmage]

I did say it was an exercise in futility.

[Titus]

Benmage, if you want to be believed, full claim. It's the best shot you have at my vote moving.

[Alfred Borden]

It's not like there have been a ton of nightkills for me to get hit by.
Scum probably even think I'm lynchable.

[Alfred Borden]

Benmage might be town thanks to the Tales of Benmage and Faraday, which sucks.
People need to let me win them the game instead of aborting everyone's clearthinking with false roleclaims.
I'm pretty sure more than 60% of my town losses are due to either town fakeclaiming or false innocent results.

ANYWAY.
We are still going to win this game.
There are 8 days until deadline.

Nacho is still town.
Magua is still town.

TA and MC are not bad lynch choices and one or both of them ought to flip scum.
I will try to figure out which one will do it harder tomorrow.

[Nautilius]

Considering I've wanted to be dead since, like, Day 5, how is me wanting to be dead now claiming scum?

You didn't beg for death until I cased you today.
Does that mean you're claiming scum?

Over Tammy who spent her last day voteless... Over Tierce who spent her last day going la-la-la I have no scum reads....like holy shit... WAKE THE FUCK UP.

They had obvtowniness on their side in order to make themselves juicier targets. Alfred had the benefit of townies wanting to lynch him and distracting from obvscum (like The Alchemist).

One of you is scum. I doubt two fake claimers are also town.

Why?
Why does fullclaiming matter? Why are you still ignoring my case on you? I thought it would weird you out just a tiny little bit, considering you were just proposing to start a townblock with me a few pages earlier.

[Nautilius]

##Vote: Quadz
Way too many non-sequitors not enough lynching mafias. Also don't like the unvote, you were convinced way too easily to drop something you thought was a slip.

First serious vote being a scum vote is some serious ++ points.

I mean, either I'm town or so hilariously bad you'll be able to follow me to all of my buddies, so you have a whole future to look forward to!

In VisCon where Shadoweh was scum I distinctly remember a line that was "I'm offended you think my scumgame is that horrible", so seeing the complete opposite line here is a pretty good sign! Probably.

Nacho, before I tell you who I think is a 'notable presense' can you tell me why it's actually relevant to anything? If you're questioning my alignment I would hope you'd ask something more relevant then who I think the cool people are. It's the kind of question I'd gladly answer as scum because it doesn't mean anything.

Self meta is seriously great sometimes!

##Vote: Alfred

I need you to answer one question for me, who are you?

You know, I'd be madder about Thor's wagon because of the miller thing etc, except uhm. Did no one notice that he kind of.. lied about who he was? I'm not a Game of Thrones scolar but that didn't look like the King of the Seals did it? It was still a terrible wagon for other reasons but I don't think over the top posts about how dare a liar get lynched are going to find teh scums.

Amrun are you going to vote all the people voting you because you suck, because that's what your vote looks like and there's a long list if you want to catch them all.

This post was pretty okay.

(actually I kind of thought if King of the Seals was a miller then finding a not-human was a possible scum result, so I wasn't asking ahead of time. >_> )

This was a pretty nice rabbit hole!

It doesn't help that by now I just assume I should have a healthy town-read on the Nacho half of you, but I don't feel like you're going anywhere. Normally you're just more driven. A leader. You feel like you're hanging back and it makes me edge slowly away from your posts hoping you won't notice me. Even posting my suspicion of you makes me feel like I need witness protection.

I liked this post when I saw it too.

No, I'm pretty confidant in calling it terrible right now. Live by the hammer, die by the hammer and all that.

Re: SpyreX lynch.

<_< Honestly we had a long argument about it and it was my decision. I don't think the full reasoning matters now, but it comes down to weird interactions with quadz.

I was pretty happy with the vig kill happening when it did + last minute deliberation between two townies being a town tell.

I mean I suppose I could explain Shadoweh town more thoroughly but her reads suck + not worth the effort and probably not scum + it's fun trolling her.

[Nautilius]

TA and MC are not bad lynch choices and one or both of them ought to flip scum.

Titus is also scum and playing the "lynch the easy mislynches because we're close to a win" game.
I know you don't believe me on Magua quite yet, so I suppose you have one shot in my townreads if you don't get mislynched.
Motivation!

[Magua]

Considering I've wanted to be dead since, like, Day 5, how is me wanting to be dead now claiming scum?

Oh, shit, my bad Syryana. I had thought you were a competent player. You don't want to fucking play, get the fuck out, Jesus Christ. If you're town,

man

shut the fuck up with the whining and goddamn play. If you're town, just save us all the

aggravation

noise and be quiet.

"Waaaaaaaaaaaah, people want to lynch me, I'll take my ball and go home" is just bullshit.

---

Anyways.

@ooba:

The problem I have with your read on Benmage is that your only complaint about Benmage's fake guilty is that he did it after you, full stop.

Your argument is essentially, "I did a terribly stupid thing, and then when I didn't get instalynched for it, Benmage did the same terribly stupid thing I did, and that's scummy."

I find several things missing from your thought process here:

1) Any indication that you're aware that Benmage has way more of a history of doing this terribly stupid thing than you do,

2) Any indication yesterday that Benmage might've been lying, given that you lied in the exact same circumstance the Day before, even when it was brought up by other people,

3) Any indication that you're aware that what you did was bad, and any attempt to explain why, really, anyone should listen to you at all.

I read your posts and the feeling I get is duplicitous. They don't feel like they have thought behind them, and they don't feel like someone who is actually trying to think things through. They feel like you're pushing a lynch-all-liars case right after you lied, and that feels off.

---

@Nautilus:

Pardon me for abbreviating your "Alfred is town" case, but it seems to boil down to these two points:
1. "Man, they played a good D1-D3"
2. "Tammy thought they/Empire was town (and then Tammy got shot)"

I don't find this compelling.

For point 1, I just feel it's a weak point. Both Empire and Llamarble are perfectly capable of playing a strong town game as scum (eg, Llamarble+mith in 2012 Team Mafia). For point 2, it just seems to devolve to WIFOM: the obvious counterargument is "Llamarble/Empire-town still alive D9", but that's really just as much bullshit, isn't it? The kills don't make a super amount of sense regardless of how you look at them, so I'm not going too far into the deep end of NK analysis at this point.

What bothers me is (of course) their play after I've entered the game, to whit, not much, and almost zero effort. No comprehension of Benmage lying D8, coupled with "That dastardly Benmage" post starting D9 just reads as so incredibly fake. "TA or MC are not bad lynch choices and one or both of them ought to flip scum" is so wishywashy; it's like not even trying. Raises the hairs on the back of my neck when that gets combined with someone naming as suspects solely weak/consensus players as their scumlist, which is what they're doing.

---

Am I misremembering, or is there some Night action reason to indicate Titus-town? I could've sworn there was something like that but now I see Nautilus floating Titus-scum and so am doubtful.

---

Also also Nautilus, if you could quote stripe less, or spoiler them at the very least, that'd be great, because wheeee, I'm not reading that shit at all.

[Messiah Complex]

Naut, Desp is working on a reply to your wall on us. He should have it done in a day or two.

All you others taking shots at us I will be addressing hopefully tomorrow.

[Eddard Stark]

Day 9, Vc 4

The Alchemist (3) -

Messiah Complex, Nautilius, Benmage

Benmage (2) -

Alfred Borden, Titus

ooba (1) -

SafetyDance

Messiah (1) -

ooba

Not voting (4)

: Cephrir, Magua, Shadoweh, The Alchemist

With 11 alive it takes 6 votes to lynch

• Deadline Date: 24th of December 19:30 EST
  
• Deadline Countdown: (expired on 2013-12-24 19:30:00)
  
• Cephrir is V/la

[Nautilius]

For point 1, I just feel it's a weak point. Both Empire and Llamarble are perfectly capable of playing a strong town game as scum (eg, Llamarble+mith in 2012 Team Mafia).

Show me one good Day 1 scumgame that Empire has played on this site. One.
All I want for you is to show me a single scumgame where Empire played anywhere close to the way he did here with as many meta threats as he had here and then I'll sheep you onto Alfred for decades and decades. But what people seem to be missing (constantly, consistently) is that Empire cannot and has not played a scumgame that is anywhere near to his play in this game while he was alive. He cannot and has not played to this level when he didn't have serious RL things on his plate (like, you know, the things that stopped him from playing). You and Benmage can say Empire has a good scumgame all you'd like and you can say "oh what if he's playing really really well", but there's nothing close to him being able to play to the capability he would have played to as scum on this site. I don't mind you abbreviating the case as long as you know that there are actually a few years of meta behind this instead of "lulz, he played a good Day 1".

For point 2, it just seems to devolve to WIFOM: the obvious counterargument is "Llamarble/Empire-town still alive D9", but that's really just as much bullshit, isn't it? The kills don't make a super amount of sense regardless of how you look at them, so I'm not going too far into the deep end of NK analysis at this point.

Tammy/Tierce, two other confirmed town who can read Empire like a book, were still calling him town before they died.
So wait! Two people with meta authority on Empire call him town, a third person with meta authority on Empire calls him town... I'm sure he's scum because the case on him is so compelling, right?

What bothers me is (of course) their play after I've entered the game, to whit, not much, and almost zero effort. No comprehension of Benmage lying D8, coupled with "That dastardly Benmage" post starting D9 just reads as so incredibly fake. "TA or MC are not bad lynch choices and one or both of them ought to flip scum" is so wishywashy; it's like not even trying. Raises the hairs on the back of my neck when that gets combined with someone naming as suspects solely weak/consensus players as their scumlist, which is what they're doing.

1) The only people who have been putting effort into this game other than you is me. We're in an incredibly shitty position because no one gives a shit; Llamarble is not the sole offender and if you're going to pull the "he's a better player than that", well. Everyone here is a better player than that. Also, weak/consensus players in their scumlist? It's Day 9. The game is sorted. The scumteam is mostly made up of consensus players who didn't get lynched because three people got greedy with who they wanted to get lynched.

Also also Nautilus, if you could quote stripe less, or spoiler them at the very least, that'd be great, because wheeee, I'm not reading that shit at all.

I won't have a computer after today, so prepare for my quote stripes to be even more annoying than they are right now.
I don't really need you to read things except for things you really care about. Hell, all I need you to read is the people who I want dead and when I want them dead and that's not even necessary since you're on the deathlist.

[Shadoweh]

Nacho you have no idea how much you've trolled me. Your trolling started before this game even began.
*fume* Fine I will stop attempting to throw pottery at Alfred. So you're going with Titus/MC/TA/elle?