League of Legends (Old)

[JasonWazza]

I may have ks'd a penta last game as soraka, so glad i was in a teamspeak with who i kill stealed from i was laughing so damn hard.

[Tamuz]

But seriously that's a really dumb question, LoL doesn't lower or raise your marks. You lower / raise your markets depending on how you allocate your time, if you weren't playing LoL when you should be working you'd be doing something other then work anyways.

Thank god you killed that strawman! His leering was almost lifelike!
!

[Glork]

I may have ks'd a penta last game as soraka, so glad i was in a teamspeak with who i kill stealed from i was laughing so damn hard.

Excellent. Pentas should be earned, not given.

[chesskid3]

nah I bought nidalee instead cuz lol aram

[chesskid3]

also supports really do get no love
was with a terribad adc, kept her from dying like 10x at least, end up 1/5/35 or so, team barely manages to win, saved so many fucking teamfights
I was giving ashe pointers and advice early and shit and then she spends the rest of the game telling me I suck because like at the time I was 0-2 and she was 2-5
ya thanks ashe
needed that

[JasonWazza]

Yeah it was entertaining, bottom was fed because my adc was being crap, adc was completely blaming me, 20 minutes later, it was obvious that i was saving the entire team, and everyone else started blaming the adc.

I may have ks'd a penta last game as soraka, so glad i was in a teamspeak with who i kill stealed from i was laughing so damn hard.

Excellent. Pentas should be earned, not given.

I don't know about earned, stolen sounds a bit more accurate

[chesskid3]

total disrespect garen is funny

[PJ.]

Me and Lil G were discussing supports tonight, and it's like in an absolute god awful state. You either have to be a guy who scales well or a guy who becomes a full on tank, because of how much gold you get and the vision changes. If the game goes late and you're s3 support build Nami and the other support is AP Nidalee, you lose. Especially with the vision changes, you can't use your gold to dominate the vision war cause you can only slap down 3 wards, so the utility support is gone, you have to be tons of damage support or tons of tank support.
The kicker is, supports are still kinda not do very much in lane guys and now they aren't even vision bots so they don't even have that little vision mini game to play while they support their shitty team.

I am personally not sold on these vision changes. Cause late game it feels like there is no possible way to get vision and there are a handful of champs that were shut down by oracles that are running rampant in lower games because people don't understand what to do. Lost a 50 minute game after being continuosly backdoored then when we finally place *some* vision to defend the backdoor we got surprise pincered because we used our limited vision defensively instead of offensively and we had some members of the team not even placing their 1 ward. I feel lower level games and even mid level games are gonna fall into a state on entropy based on the vision changes because people are gonna refuse to keep a 6th spot open for vision. While I feel the old vision game was kinda binary(get ahead, get oracle's take the other team's vision) this one really isn't better, as the team that's ahead now gets 5 infinite duration traps and can keep the team holed up even worse than by just sweeping them. It's an anti-snowball measure that facilitates snowballing.

[chesskid3]

I don't like it when a lane goes 2/14 and our lane is chillin and like 3/3 and then all the sudden it's game over

[Jahudo]

One plus is that thresh and blitz aren't banned much now, so at least supports can pick a tank.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

This is basically why I either play Nid/Annie support if we need damage or Leona if we need a tank.

Edit: Why do I feel like Ez does no damage? Like by far the weakest adc? No matter how I build him I still feel like I'm barely doing a fraction of the damage of any other adc...

Is he supposed to combine AAs with Q during teamfights or?

[mykonian]

Nothing changed about nid supports problems. It was never the lack of money that held her back, it was that she gave up lane dominance, and that counterplay was relatively easy. You are throwing your adc to the wolves for a shot at "being useful late as a support" with still a very poor teamfight presence. Yes you deal poke damage, but how far is that going to get you if there's actually nothing to keep the enemy for going on you/your allies.

[JasonWazza]

Edit: Why do I feel like Ez does no damage? Like by far the weakest adc? No matter how I build him I still feel like I'm barely doing a fraction of the damage of any other adc...

Is he supposed to combine AAs with Q during teamfights or?

Ez does a ton of damage if he is done right, i have been fucked by him tons of times.

His passive increases his attack speed quickly so as long as you actually hit your spells you hit hard and fast.

If you hit more then one champ with his R or W it gains multiple stacks.

The main thing about Ez is that he is a mixed champ, his W/E rely entirely on AP, his R relys on both. and his Q relys on ad.

If you don't mind your W/E being purely for getting passive bonuses and build pure damage then he should just hit hard and fast, you just have to make sure you use spells often and accurately.

[quadz08]

I played support karma today

god I am so glad that I she's playable on SR now.

[DeathRowKitty]

She was playable on SR before her rework.

[FakeGod]

My friend is really big on playing support Karma these days.

I guess she's ok.

[quadz08]

I <3 karma allatime

[JDodge]

Me and Lil G were discussing supports tonight, and it's like in an absolute god awful state. You either have to be a guy who scales well or a guy who becomes a full on tank, because of how much gold you get and the vision changes. If the game goes late and you're s3 support build Nami and the other support is AP Nidalee, you lose. Especially with the vision changes, you can't use your gold to dominate the vision war cause you can only slap down 3 wards, so the utility support is gone, you have to be tons of damage support or tons of tank support.
The kicker is, supports are still kinda not do very much in lane guys and now they aren't even vision bots so they don't even have that little vision mini game to play while they support their shitty team.

If your support is not doing much in lane, they're a really goddamn awful support and should feel bad. A support who is doing nothing deserves to sink to the fucking depths. That being said, it's a hell of a lot easier to win your lane with an incompetent support as an ADC (unless they're outright feeding) than it is to make your incompetent ADC win a lane as a support.

I am personally not sold on these vision changes. Cause late game it feels like there is no possible way to get vision and there are a handful of champs that were shut down by oracles that are running rampant in lower games because people don't understand what to do. Lost a 50 minute game after being continuosly backdoored then when we finally place *some* vision to defend the backdoor we got surprise pincered because we used our limited vision defensively instead of offensively and we had some members of the team not even placing their 1 ward. I feel lower level games and even mid level games are gonna fall into a state on entropy based on the vision changes because people are gonna refuse to keep a 6th spot open for vision. While I feel the old vision game was kinda binary(get ahead, get oracle's take the other team's vision) this one really isn't better, as the team that's ahead now gets 5 infinite duration traps and can keep the team holed up even worse than by just sweeping them. It's an anti-snowball measure that facilitates snowballing.

I feel like the season 4 changes underscore the fact that Riot is balancing around a theoretical game that they want to exist instead of looking at how the game is actually played. People who say that "it keeps it fresh and exciting!" are the worst kind of lying to themselves - a game can remain fresh and exciting by the diversity of strategies viable within it without completely overhauling every ding-dong system in the game once a year (see: Starcraft). A good example of this is the death of the carry jungler. A lot of the reason why support/tank junglers became the meta was because at some point in time, Riot saw only certain junglers that could sustain their way through being viable (season 1), and saw this as a problem. They then proceeded to dumpster gold/xp values in exchange for making taking jungle camps the easiest thing in the world. Then they saw Karthus taking wraiths and decided that was a problem (season 2), so they further weakened the gold/xp values out of the jungle to make it much less worth people's time. The jungling role became more and more starved for gold as time went on.

This season, they decided "let's put in a bunch of gold generation items so the gold-starved supports can have some!". Well, fucking hooray for them. Supports can start a gold generation item and get stuff going from the get-go. Junglers have to put

2k gold

into getting their gold generation item.

That makes no fucking sense unless the generation on the item is as strong as Hand of Midas is in Dota.

It's just not good design - it's almost taunting in a way. "We're going to make sure junglers get a lot more gold!" they said, like a late-night infomercial for the vaguely sexual-looking weight loss device du jour. Then the little asterisk with the fine print pops up saying

only

if you can get 2k gold into your farming item of the day (which means you have to choose between delaying boots and severely gimping your ganking potential, or delaying your gold generation and getting even further behind where you could be

if a small amount of that gold was on machete/spirit stone to begin with

),

only

10g per camp (by the way, we nerfed gold values on most of the camps. At least there's one more for you to farm! That makes up for it, right?), and by the way we're nerfing smite so you can spam it but your objective control is now shit.

All of these changes came about because Riot saw a strategy and determined it was a problem, and took the worst steps they possibly could to fix it. This is not a sustainable strategy for balance. You cannot punish innovation by immediately nerfing it into the ground. So what if pros wanted to 2v1 every game? A strategy would have (and in fact was in Korea) been devised to counter it. The vision war is in a similar position. Riot saw supports spending lots of money on vision, and determined that was a problem. Now they get to be tanks or underfed mages.

Fucking hooray

.

I didn't play support and think "gee, this would be a lot more fun if I could trade away my vision control for pieces of a hat so I can almost do damage!". I played support because I

loved

that vision war the way it was. The day they made oracles last through death was one of the happiest patches I ever had as a player because it came during a period where I was playing support regularly and was just beginning to fully understand how the vision game worked. Instead of just being some guy sitting in a lane occasionally throwing CC down and hoping my carry was intelligent enough to realize that MAN IS CC'D SHOOT MANS or MAN IS CC'D RUN AWAY FROM MANS WHILE SHOOTING, I had this sort of chess match going on between myself and the enemy support - a battle of wits, not the fucking game of whack-a-mole it's been replaced with.

[mykonian]

"aaaah the game changed make it stop make it stop". It doesn't help that on top of the sillyness you are arguing, you choose hyperbole as your trope of choice.

[JDodge]

"aaaah the game changed make it stop make it stop". It doesn't help that on top of the sillyness you are arguing, you choose hyperbole as your trope of choice.

it's entirely opinion? change isn't always good? i dont really see what youre trying to actually say beyond trying to stoke fires like you usually do

[FakeGod]

League changes too often for me to invest my time in working out the numbers, etc on a build on a champion and investing my time to get good with him/her.

I wish riot would stop changing them so often.

[mykonian]

"aaaah the game changed make it stop make it stop". It doesn't help that on top of the sillyness you are arguing, you choose hyperbole as your trope of choice.

it's entirely opinion? change isn't always good? i dont really see what youre trying to actually say beyond trying to stoke fires like you usually do

That you are making your argument look silly if you start saying things like "smite got less damage so my objective control is shit". Or silly analogies how it's "a fucking game of whack-a-mole". Or in other words, you are complaining because you like to and use the most fun words you can think of to "support" that position. It's hard to argue points, because there's not a clear reason

why

you are complaining, other then that you like to.

If I wanted to stoke a fire, all I would have wanted was an ad-hom in response. Thanks, I guess, that you thought about that.

[BROseidon]

In all fairness junglers are making good gold right now.

The bigger issue I have is that gold income across the board is up right now, and death timers are shorter early. It makes the games all feel too long.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

showdown super fun

[TheButtonmen]

The best part of Showdown is that it lets me inflict HP regen Gangpank on people who don't know what they're getting into.