In post 5788, The Alchemist wrote: In post 5692, Nautilius wrote: In post 1096, Syryana wrote:Problem #1: 3000 fucking scumreads. Scummy by itself? No. Scummy when considered of the context that he's done jack fuck to narrow the list? Hell fuck yes.
Problem #2: Reaction to scumslip. As town, when somebody else goes up to me and says "LOL YOU SCUMSLIPT LOL", the immediate town reaction (in my humble 13er opinion) is some variant of "lolthefuckyousmokintierce".
What did we get? "What? I scumslipped? Where?" *looks for scumslip for 20 minutes* "Oh, you mean that?" *proceeds to overexplain scumslip*
Hmm...
Problem #3: Best reasoning for anybody being in his scumlist is "X is most likely to flip scum." No reason X is scum. No indication of thought process. No indication of scumhunting. Hell, corollary to that, there's no reason anybody in his list is any alignment. The moral of the story: THERE'S NO INDICATION OF THOUGHT PROCESS OR ANY KIND OF ALIGNMENT HUNTING IN HIS READS LIST OR ISO.
Questions?
Case #2 is made because a player wasn't making an effort to narrow the list of scumreads (doesn't make a whole lot of sense, considering Syryana had a small scum pool when he made his list and didn't appear to be making an effort to increase his pool of scumreads).
The scumslip reaction point is decent, but nothing that gives me confidence he could possibly be town.
The no indication of alignment hunting in his ISO is decent, maybe, but it also ignores a lot of lurkfucks.
I haven't the foggiest what you're trying to say here. You're accusing me of hypocrisy, I guess? If I twist my head slightly and squint it appears you're saying that there's nothing in that case that makes you think I'm town. I'll assume that's what you meant and add to this later.
In post 5692, Nautilius wrote: In post 1133, Syryana wrote:As for Cephrir, my primary reason for scumreading him is because I recently saw him up close and personal as town, and this ain't
nothin
like I saw him play.
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go
It's a bit of reading, but Ceph is laid-back, personable, pops his reads out here and there, scumhunts in a leisurely fashion, etc.
Here? His tone's completely different; he's very serious, almost formal. He's been super serious in his interactions and has been almost totally oblivious to the tempo of the thread; none of the playful banter present in 527, ignoring all the trolling going on, etc. Hell, he's so profoundly literal this game that he latches onto my mollie troll, takes it seriously, and proceeds to agree with the dislike of lurking
right after saying he's seen nothing townish from me.
(which is another reason i think he's scum but it helps my tone point so dealwithit)
His ISO also feels superficial as hell. Like, I dunno how better to describe it. It's that he's trying so HARD to look town. I feel like it's all an act. There's a bunch of on the surface scumhunting, but I don't get a thought process from it. It's just a bunch of stuff. Take his Nautilus read for example. He's got Nacho as "town as fuck", yet in his ISO he interacts with them in one post. In that post, he gives a bunch of responses to Nautilus, but reading them doesn't really give me that good "holy shit I think Nacho is so fucking town" feeling. This is true of much in his reads list; the people he takes stances on are ones he's hardly interacted with and the ones he's interacted with the most (i.e. Thor) is in his null list!
In short, Cephrir isn't playing the way I know he plays as town, he's too serious, and his ISO is devoid of any kind of discernible thought process.
And, number three! It's not an absolutely horrible case, but it's based mostly on gut.
Now, these three posts constitute the majority of content in Syryana's ISO, if not the entirety of anything worth reading. But, if we're looking for nuggets:
Again with the whole not really saying anything bit. "It ain't bad, but it's gut based"? Did you miss the whole tonal analysis bit? Should I have thrown in meta to back it up? What is it you'd have expected from Town-Syr? Last I checked, gut suspicions transformed into a case is sort of my modus operandi. But what the hell do I know about my own meta, right?
Your quoted cases here (you missed the first one, by the by) don't really seem to accomplish anything except to give you something to insert snide little comments like "mostly gut-based" and "nothing that really gives me that town feeling". The second is particularly a flat out lie, considering this:
In post 709, Nautilius wrote: In post 702, macmollie wrote:tammy it is bothering me that tierce did not address my question about you except to blow it off and then syrlacious still...trolls.
am I being overly paranoid
oh and can you stop pestering the love of my life?
merciless trolling with minimal content is a mode of Syr-town and I <3 it.
In post 750, Nautilius wrote:Syryana hit his good stride in about #660, I think, and hasn't lost it since. His posts after that are fucking on fire and I feel the same dancing beat that he feels in my heart so you can take the townread as one of the reads I could probably bullshit pretty hard but the truth is that it's a matter of the heart and I trust the little blood pumping motherfucker.
...huh. I'd swear you thought I was town. Yet, if I recall correctly, your above case to this point says you never saw anything in me that you thought could have been town. Maybe you changed your mind shortly thereafter?
In post 2764, Nautilius wrote:
This doesn't really feel like Syryana's scumplay; I can't really see him showing up in thread just to give Tierce the middle finger and then disappearing back into the dark inky abyss.
In post 2755, Tierce wrote:They aren't my strongest Townread by far, and probably fall among the chaff that needs to be culled if the game isn't over at some point, but I don't think they're scum.
As long as you have this perspective, you're still alright with me.
In post 5046, Nautilius wrote:I'm willing to vote The Alchemist as soon as someone tells me why Syryana wouldn't give his coin to a buddy and just stay quiet about it. Do you think Faraday told him he couldn't give the coin to buddies? Because that just sounds stupid.
He could have given it to me, who wouldn't have shot one of his buddies. Why wouldn't he have done that?
...and almost four thousand posts later, you're still defending me. Why the hell would you defend a scumread? Why does your "case" as to why I'm scum imply you never thought I was town when you've been hard defending me all game? Let's set that aside as well and continue through your case.
In post 5692, Nautilius wrote: In post 2690, The Alchemist wrote: In post 2688, Tierce wrote:Oh, please. That is a hell of a push on AGar, truly impressive.
Considering you've come out of hiding purely to mislynch two, almost three townies now, you're running a great track record yourself.
I don't think that this is something Syryana says to a townTierce. I don't think that Syryana would fire back when he knows he's lazy and playing like shit to the whole "well you've mislynched people!". In HunterxHunter when he got lazy as fuck, I do remember him pulling a bit of a "oh hello hello I'm being lazy as fuck so kill me" act, but never do I remember him ignoring the fact that he isn't doing shit and discrediting someone else (a friend, no less) and saying that they are mislynching people.
This was copied and extrapolated almost directly from a post in Tierce's ISO. I forget which one it was and frankly can't be arsed to look it up at the moment. Two points of interest about this here: first, Tierce (whose name you've incidentally been waving about like some long-dead saint's underdrawers) initially made this point, yet ultimately didn't believe I was scummy for it. Why? Note the lack of Alchemist votes in her ISO. If she'd thought I was scum, she'd have voted me. Simple. Easy. Point number two, compare the above quote to this one:
In post 2764, Nautilius wrote:
This doesn't really feel like Syryana's scumplay; I can't really see him showing up in thread just to give Tierce the middle finger and then disappearing back into the dark inky abyss.
Well. Why the change of heart, old boy? You didn't think I was scummy for it then, why do you now? (Note: I'm leading up to a theme here, can you guess which one?)
In post 5692, Nautilius wrote:
This reads a bit strange to me, considering he wasn't pushing any sort of case on quadz earlier (when I was suggesting that I no longer thought quadz was town for shitty moonlogic, Syryana event went "well a bunch of other people were pushing moonlogic earlier"). He'd later jump onto quadz, sure, but the timing of this is still pretty strange.
I don't think I've pushed a case on anybody since Day 1, excepting possibly Titus. How does this make me scum? Furthermore, I was asking you that because I was beginning to suspect quadz. You reinforced that suspicion with your comment about the moonlogic (I was concerned he wasn't town precisely for that reason), but your comment about his scum meta being lurky as hell and generally nothing like his play here assuaged it to the point I discarded my suspicions and figured "hell with it, he's probs town". Of course, all you have for this is my word, as I never bothered to document my thought process ITT. Take it as you will.
In post 5692, Nautilius wrote: In post 3723, The Alchemist wrote: In post 3710, Tammy wrote:Alchemist - you know what I am. Taking into account a swingy upick that has some claimed bastardish time elements, and taking into account roles before alignments, what do you think the likelihood of me
(Town!)
, a macho cop
(Town!)
, a permanent roleblocker
(Town!)
, a global roleblocker
(Scumfuck!)
, and a joat with a roleblock
(Scumfuck!)
all being on the same team is! I might need help before I jump down the rabbit hole.
There you go. As to your question of does it make sense to have all that shit on one side, nope nope nope (scum would get REKT, town would be essentially vanilla against all that)! Dive gracefully into the rabbit-hole, ex-wife!
And then, immediately after this, he suggests quadz is town again for claim. We all know Syryana has a weak point for calling his partners town for their fakeclaims when they probably won't get lynched when they make them, but the complete readflip is again a bit strange.
Your perspective here seems to be a "how does this fit scum-Syr" instead of "how does this make Syr scum". I more or less answered the part about quadz just a moment ago. Saying I townread quadz for his claim is an oversimplification even without my thought process documented in thread, and your second sentence is particularly guilty of confirmation bias at the very least.
In post 5692, Nautilius wrote: In post 5604, The Alchemist wrote: In post 5603, Nautilius wrote:The part that resonated with me is that he usually gives up when guilted this late in the game. I'm probably going to lynch Syryana tomorrow regardless of what the hell happens.
Yer like four Days late on that one mate.
And again, a case of not the response I was expecting. Me saying that I was going to policy lynch Syryana was more of a testing for reactions as opposed to a serious charge (I happily defended the fuck out of him in HunterxHunter because he was infinite town then), but him sort of shrugging at my suggestion and going with "yeah you're a bit too late on that one" seems less like a normal reaction to me and more like a lazy scum reaction because he knows he still has a decent chance of surviving a couple more days thanks to noise noise noise.
My lazy scum reaction is to not post at all, as you very well know. Second, your policy lynch suggestion was not a reaction test and we both know it. If it was a reaction test, you'd not only have said so then but you wouldn't have bothered to say it again here:
In post 5616, Nautilius wrote:This game pisses me off so horribly based on how beautifully it started that I am probably willing to burn a policy lynch today. On Syryana. And Jesus fuck I never thought I would say that.
If the first post was a reaction test and I failed, why on earth didn't you say it immediately? I'll tell you why. It's because that post and the following one were leading up to (trajectory change! <3 fery) this lovely masterwork of a shitpot case calling me scum. Reaction test my ass, you just didn't want it to look weird when the Syr-scum-case popped out. I'll elaborate after your second half.
In post 5694, Nautilius wrote: In post 5240, kanyeknowsbest wrote:n1 elle had not killed anyone
n2 goat had not killed anyone
n3 quadz had not killed anyone
n4 pnj, resulted in "VICTARION"
n5 alfred had not killed anyone
n6 ceph had not killed anyone
Second piece of the case on him is this. Quadz, on N3, hadn't killed anyone. Now quadz on N3 hadn't under an approximate fuckton of pressure, but he wasn't at all in a better position than any of his other scumteam members. Zdenek? Ooba? Benmage? Cephrir? No, no, no. What would make sense is Alchemist submitting the kills because he's a ninja, and quadz not doing so as a result. This theory would make kkb's results useless, but I think it makes sense given the quadz result on N3 especially (and maybe even the alfred result for some of you for still suspect the hell out of him).
Side note: these results aren't useless, because I'm not scum.
REMEMBER THIS IF/WHEN I DIE
In post 5694, Nautilius wrote:There is a hoop to jump through in order to believe Alchemist-scum that comes in the form of Tammy and "why give coin to town?", but let's talk about both of those things now. For one, immediately jumping out of the neighborhood with Tammy in order to be a useless shit and pretend to be not-Syryana is scummy. Why not use his free vig kill as an additional scumkill? Well, there is the matter of being neighborized by Tammy before he could even give it away, needing something to claim, and then not being able to make a magical kill appear without Tammy being dead. Scumteam might have had different priorities Night 1, didn't want to kill Tammy like that, so Syryana went for the towncred route. It's also a bit... strange? He waited so long to give his coin away/didn't look for someone to give his coin to? If town, he would be wanting to pass his coin off early and get a kill early, but talk of passing it off only came after he claimed, which again is strange.
Boiling it down:
1)immediately jumping out of the neighborhood with Tammy in order to be a useless shit
I jumped out of the neighborhood due to the fact that it turned us into lovers, which we explained. The useless shit was due to a combination of RL reasons, pissiness with the Thor lynch and more recently, quitting Mafia altogether. Not scummy.
2)pretend to be not-Syryana is scummy
Pretending to be someone else when handed a golden opportunity to do so is scummy coming from someone who's a known troll? (Or at least known for trolling, I do actually play Mafia from time to time)
3) didnt give the coin away for so long
Well, yeah. Nobody knew anyone else's name, which the coin-kill was completely dependent on. I in fact gave it away at the earliest opportunity I had to know someone else's name: Tierce's mention of knowing a name. I didn't give it to Tammy because I suspected she'd be an early NK and cause the only names we knew were each others' (can't remember if she mentioned it ITT or in the QT). There was no point in flavor fishing early on to throw the coin out there, for obvious reasons.
Again, you're cramming me into the scum-mold while flat out ignoring all the inconsistencies. Gotta run fast over that thin ice, eh?
In post 5695, Nautilius wrote:Meta Reasons:
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go
Here is a newbie game where Syryana quickhammered a jailkeeper on D1 in a newbie game. There are his normal townmarkers of posting more content in this newbie game than he has in a 228 page Large Theme with a great playerlist, but the biggest takeaway that I got from his play in this game is his play after the quickhammer; he realizes that he did something stupid, plays townie as hell and ends up getting nightkilled because of his aggression and the fact that he managed to outplay so many others despite the bumpy start that would get most players lynched. I think that Syryana does care about the town when he plays, and is willing to admit where he's experiencing failings in his play and adjust as a result; the fact we're seeing no such evidence here is alarming as hell.
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go
Here is an open game where I ended up pegging the fuck out of him D1 for "not trolling". I think this scumgame significantly changed Syryana's scumgame in a way where he realized that opening "feelings" were just as important to his scumgame as producing words and pushing lynches were. It would explain why his opening was so trolly, so playful; he might have been trying to avoid the pitfall that happened this game. I will also note that his content is a bit lacking in this game (in part due to V/LA, but also in part due to being scum), although he did end up producing more content in this scumgame than he has here (which isn't a good thing, I promise you).
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go
This is an old but pretty impressive scumgame of Syryana's. The similarities in this game compared to that game are the periods of inbetween, where he doesn't feel so much like posting. He doesn't mind coasting for short periods of time when he can get away with it, doesn't mind bussing a partner whenever they fuck up. Multiball, so easier to legitimately scumhunt.
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go
Jokey opening, nothing else of import, replaced out.
No content! (scum)
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go
Lazy as fuck, no content, busses a fuckton. Also uses a similar "I will help you bus" attack on our slot that is voting scum which reminds me of the Titus attack elsewhere in the game.
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go
Another town game, another demonstration of more content than he's posted in this game.
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go
Another towngame, has decent posting. #478 blows all of the posts that he's made in this game completely out of the water, meaning that it's yet another towngame where he's posted more content there than he has here.
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go
This scumgame he has a similar light opening to this one, once again fails to post any content.
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go
Confirmable town, has a hell of a day 1 where he dumps an approximate fuckton content into thread Day 1 (again more content than he's posted in this game).
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go
HunterxHunter Mafia, the closest game that I compare to his play in this one, but the end result isn't actually very close for two reasons. 1) Syryana made a giant case on me and pursued it for a very, very long time. Secondly, the town was stomp thwomping the fuck out of the game and he fell off and lurked because busy, but even then he never expressed the same attitude he did here, instead adopting a bit of a "kill me, this is absolute trash" attitude.
So, as you can see, there's a trend of him posting more content in one day of any of his towngames that he's posted in this current game that is on Day 9. I think that his Day 1, in the end, is sort of townish based on the trolling and the smooth interactions with people, but I think that interaction is at a level he can fake and is comfortable faking. I know that he has been getting apathetic with mafia as of late, but I don't see his apathy not translating into any kind of guilt and instead into a blame-shifting game like it has in his reactions to Tierce, and I don't see him posting so motivated on D1 yet somehow managing not to produce any of the content that is so consistently present in his towngames. I could see him posting to a lower level in later days maybe for a little while, but this being the last game that he will most likely play for his break, I can't see him neglecting everything so thoroughly, so completely unless he is scum. There's also his behavior in and of itself; he's willing to push for his own directions and yell at people when they don't follow him, why? He never expressed that kind of attitude in any of his towngames. He's shown pretty much zero signs of his normal "I've fucked up, either I gotta die or step up my game" attitude that I would be expecting if he were actually town in this game. He's also nudged along weak not perfect reasoning for him being town and jumped on wagons in an opportunistic way that didn't happen the last time he was lazy town.
Your point in five words: lack of content = scum. You're ignoring a hell of a lot of context and misrepping the fuck out of the HxH game to throw yet more reasons why I'm scum at the thread. I'm not going to debate this on a game by game basis (unless someone asks me to) but you're basically going "hey he lurks as scum lurklurklurk look how good these towngames are gaiz he's not town killkillkill). For those of you reading these games, here's a tip: check the dates. I haven't had a good game in a while as either alignment, due to fuckery (mod and player instigated) and flagging interest. Lurking's not a scumtell for me anymore, folks. Hell, go read any hydra game I've participated in as Rift Adrift or Pyrotechnics. I've a grand total of <10 posts in any recent game from those hydras. In fact, Nacho, why'd you leave all our Oil Tycoons games out of this? You should know full well how my game's been progressing (regressing, really) lately. You didn't mention Time War, The-Game-That-Shall-Not-Be-Named, Oz...
In fact, your whole goddamn case is a conglomeration of "strange things", confirmation bias out the ass, contradictory to things you've said in the past, with a healthy dose of out and out lying. Also, allow me to summarize your trajectory on my alignment up to this point: you thought I was town as fuck until pretty much toDay, barring one comment about how you're gonna policy me yesterDay. Then, two comments about PLing me and BAM! Massive scumcase on me out of nowhere, with immediate moving onto "reads" of other people to cover up just how pathetic and weak your case actually was. You're heading up the lynch wagon on me and pressing rather damn hard and fast to kill me, considering how long you thought I was town for. I also find the timing of this case damned convenient, coming as it does just as Tammy and Tierce both die. Both of them would have nailed the shit out of you with this, just like I'm doing right now. Mighty suspicious. Add that to how fast you're pushing my lynch... If I were a betting man (and betting weren't against the rules, of course) I'd make a healthy wager that you're trying to kill me before I nail the shit out of your scum ass. Like this:
VOTE: Nautilius
I'm pretty sure I'm dying toDay regardless of this. When I flip town, you lynch the fuck out of this guy. Town-Nacho would
never
, and I mean
NEVER
, come up with some half assed pile of shit like this case right before LyLo (I'm pretty sure tomorrow is LyLo). It's superficial as all get out and ignores one hell of a lot of question marks in its effort to put me out there as scum. The timing on it is suspicious as fuck, as is the complete turnabout from town as fuck to policy this to scum. Even the tone and content itself is all wrong. When Nacho's town and trying to get that scumlynch, he pours EVERYTHING in there. This collection of "stranges" and "doesn't give me town vibes" and "don't see town-Syr doing this's" has none of that passion and fire he gets for shit he really believes. He made a half arsed case that he's trying to push through before someone wakes up and crushes him for it. Kill his ass.
In post 5741, Alfred Borden wrote:Benmage might be town thanks to the Tales of Benmage and Faraday, which sucks.
People need to let me win them the game instead of aborting everyone's clearthinking with false roleclaims.
I'm pretty sure more than 60% of my town losses are due to either town fakeclaiming or false innocent results.
ANYWAY.
We are still going to win this game.
There are 8 days until deadline.
Nacho is still town.
Magua is still town.
TA and MC are not bad lynch choices and one or both of them ought to flip scum.
I will try to figure out which one will do it harder tomorrow.
Why is Nacho town?
Why is Magua town?
In post 5742, Nautilius wrote: In post 5730, The Alchemist wrote:Considering I've wanted to be dead since, like, Day 5, how is me wanting to be dead now claiming scum?
You didn't beg for death until I cased you today.
Does that mean you're claiming scum?
No. In fact, before Magua managed to piss me the fuck off, I was going to just give you a thumbs up and a happy face for pushing through the PL on me I wanted to happen on like Day 5. Instead, I'm sitting here taking a shit on your face. Thanks, Magua!
In post 5773, Alfred Borden wrote:@Magua:
My Proficiency would look a lot better without 2 faked guilties a 1v1 a fast scumhammer and a deadlined lynch on Thor.
On Garruk we had Nacho's roleblock-nokill on top of Benmage's claim. I can't not make that play.
Obvious lynches get a fact check and a hammer or a STOP THIS, not a full-game solving session.
We didn't use our vote much because we wanted to agree on votes but failed at schedule overlap.
TA, how hard is your guarantee that the name you were given is not in the setup?
Don't have access to the exact words he used, but it was to the effect of "this person does not exist".
In post 5786, Magua wrote:
You don't have anywhere near enough money.
Think Titus is town.
Bedtime now.
Since nothing is priceless, you're technically correct.
