A uPick of Ice & Fire - Day 12 - #REKT?

[Messiah Complex]

Nacho is using the same playbook he did in N game with the additional bonus of not having to salvage his slot from a lurky early game--mislynch to late, bus, bus, bus, endgame. He just has a more game "opponent" in Syr than Dante or Mitillos.

Magua goes the other way while Alchemist is the leading wagon on to Borden, who if he had read anything at all would know that there were at least 3 other known Borden votes out there. He gets the waogn he wants on his "#1 scumread with a bullet" and then gets cold feet. Does no compute.

Borden is just scum and it's obvious and the lengths Nacho is willing to go to justify it are embarrassing.

- Des

[Nautilius]

Wait so the similarities in between this game and N game are that I lynched scum in both of them? Do tell me more!

[Nautilius]

Oh sorry, I should realize that turning against someone you had a townread on when they had a guilty against them is a scumtell

[Messiah Complex]

And no, it's not. Your posting levels are significantly higher today than they have been any other day except for the day you pushed spyrex.

Prove it.

And you couldn't have switched... Why? And why didn't you open up voting Borden?

We didn't think Borden was a candidate today. As far as I can tell he still isn't, even with Magua's vote.

- Des

[Nautilius]

No, I won't count your posts by day. I'm on an iPad.

So... You weren't voting Alfred because he wasn't a candidate. Now you are voting him because inertia? Even though he still isn't a candidate?

[Messiah Complex]

Wait so the similarities in between this game and N game are that I lynched scum in both of them? Do tell me more!

No, the similarities are that you lynched town until your team was in an advantageous position, and then you bussed.

Oh sorry, I should realize that turning against someone you had a townread on when they had a guilty against them is a scumtell

Stop pretending like not believing Ooba or Ben wasn't an option.

- Des

[Messiah Complex]

No, I won't count your posts by day. I'm on an iPad.

So... You weren't voting Alfred because he wasn't a candidate. Now you are voting him because inertia? Even though he still isn't a candidate?

Now I'm voting him because I know that Alchemist is also willing to vote him, which means we just need one of the people who is currently against lynching Borden to change their mind.

That is worth more than going back to a wagon that I know already stalled at 4.

[Nautilius]

So two mislynches in a 25 player game meant my team was in an advantageous position? Man, that seems like a perfect time to bus two partners! And I did ask for more. I would love to hear you compare my play here more to my play in N's game: I'm sure ooba would be interested in hearing it too.

It was an option, but not an obvious one. Normally when people claim guilties on other people and it's not lylo, you assume they aren't being idiots and go with it. Neither ooba or Benmage were in the "oh this person is scummy enough to fake a guilty" position. Why did you find it scummy that Llamarble believed it?

[Messiah Complex]

So two mislynches in a 25 player game meant my team was in an advantageous position? Man, that seems like a perfect time to bus two partners! And I did ask for more. I would love to hear you compare my play here more to my play in N's game: I'm sure ooba would be interested in hearing it too.

It was an option, but not an obvious one. Normally when people claim guilties on other people and it's not lylo, you assume they aren't being idiots and go with it. Neither ooba or Benmage were in the "oh this person is scummy enough to fake a guilty" position. Why did you find it scummy that Llamarble believed it?

Your Spyrex push was weak. And I seriously doubt Quadz went into D4 planning to claim so...yeah.

Is Marble unaware of Ben's meta too? Despite Tierce's warnings

in this thread?

- Des

[Nautilius]

um, nothing of import has happened in the game. There is a run up, that is it. No one has pinged me. oh, and what I do, I do well. I don't suck but I don't play the way you do. Learn from it or not. I don't engage in pretend reasons and blah blah blah meta. If I make a meta comment and take time to do it, it is worth attending to. I have nothing right now. 5 pages in on day one and blah blah blah.

My experience with Peacebringer is that he always finds something to pick up on, so the fact he didn't find anything here is strange.

I was not shaking my head at Pride and Joy but rather the whole PnJ run up on a joke. Lack of humor and lack of tolerance for shtick. Just a bunch of knee jerk votes. The end part was just pointing out you had past exposure to my play.

Notice no reads, still.

???

i voted him cus it was a bad post and i wanted to start gathering some reactions and get shit rolling. i poked you because your vote was bad and i wanted a reaction. i now have a multitude of townreads stemming from the former and a townread on you from the latter. dwi

I am calling you a hyprocrite. You engaged in the same kind of behavior I actually just engaged in... you are the one that said his 1st post pissed you off, now you are calling it reaction fishing...make up your mind...

First attack, doesn't vote. I don't find that Peace is particularly stingy with his vote, ever.

vote KKB

Finally moves, and the vote is pretty useless. He doesn't push like I'd expect him to, he just kinda sits on an easy target (you make yourself look that way because of posting style, kanye) and then later moves to a different one. Replace out was weird for the reasons ooba noted.

lots of players seem town but I have a big weakness in giving rhetorically skilled players town reads too often so Im being more cautious
I also think lots of players are using overly ornate language to justify townreads that really arent that solid

I didn't like this.

More importantly though: I have role-reasons for wanting that hammer. I also want this one.

Neither of his predecessors so much as hinted at this, which I find suspicious. Hammer powers are something that gets crumbed an obnoxious amount, and when town usually results in you asking for the hammer. As scum, you usually get it in sneaky ways like this.

@Nacho et all:

What needs to happen to make my wish come true of the first group lynching the second group. HELP ME HELP YOU.

I don't like that a majority of his time has been invested in defending himself versus burning the bad people. It's easy as scum to defend yourself from people going after you because of a quickhammer because reasonable people will see the bad arguments against you and they will feel you're town because you're generally stomp-thwomping the arguments around you, and inviting the bad attacks is a fine investment because you can get the more influential voices on your side. What I want to see is his thought processes on other people developing and I don't see anything of the sort in his play so far which sucks because Elli and I wanted Spy Spy to be town.

This was my initial pushon spyrex. There was plenty of follow up. What did my push lack that made it weak?

[Messiah Complex]

I'm not going to just ignore hard claimed hard guilties unless the target is a STRONG townread or the claimer is OBVIOUSLY lying.

It's BENMAGE. What more proof do you need that he's lying? Benmage pulls this shit all the time and your absent hydra partner would be yelling at you about it![/quote

Oh look it's Tierce begging Marble to listen to her and even envoking Empire.

- Des

[Nautilius]

No, he's not. That still didn't make Benmage fake claiming after someone else fake claimed particularly likely.

[Messiah Complex]

This was my initial pushon spyrex. There was plenty of follow up. What did my push lack that made it weak?

It's more like what did it contain, which was a ton of outs if the pressure went away. Your case was on his predecessors, which guaranteed that it wouldn't be engaged properly.

- Des

[Nautilius]

You also never answered how former fish affects your play.

[Messiah Complex]

That's because the answer would be incomplete. The point is that you aren't even bothering to factor in his presence.

- Des

[Nautilius]

This was my initial pushon spyrex. There was plenty of follow up. What did my push lack that made it weak?

It's more like what did it contain, which was a ton of outs if the pressure went away. Your case was on his predecessors, which guaranteed that it wouldn't be engaged properly.

- Des

My original case was on his predecessors, then I began engaging with him. If I recall correctly, your case was a mirror of that (starting out with scumreading him thanks to mollie scumread, then attacking him after quickhammer). What is your point? It's more likely a bus because I made a case on his predecessors?

[Nautilius]

That's because the answer would be incomplete. The point is that you aren't even bothering to factor in his presence.

- Des

I'm asking how the hell im supposed to factor in his presence when I don't know much about him and it doesn't seem like he affects your play significantly. You can't answer?

[Messiah Complex]

This was my initial pushon spyrex. There was plenty of follow up. What did my push lack that made it weak?

It's more like what did it contain, which was a ton of outs if the pressure went away. Your case was on his predecessors, which guaranteed that it wouldn't be engaged properly.

- Des

My original case was on his predecessors, then I began engaging with him. If I recall correctly, your case was a mirror of that (starting out with scumreading him thanks to mollie scumread, then attacking him after quickhammer). What is your point? It's more likely a bus because I made a case on his predecessors?

No, we scumread his slot thanks to mollie's read on peace, and then Spyrex replaced in and quickhammered a wagon that we had been fighting all day.

My point was that by attacking his predecessors first you were giving him every opportunity to talk his way out of your read on him.

- Des

[Nautilius]

How? How could he explain peace's actions?

[Messiah Complex]

That's because the answer would be incomplete. The point is that you aren't even bothering to factor in his presence.

- Des

I'm asking how the hell im supposed to factor in his presence when I don't know much about him and it doesn't seem like he affects your play significantly. You can't answer?

You could start by engaging anything he's posted.

And I can't answer in anything but generalities without a completed game to reference.

- Des

[Nautilius]

...

[Messiah Complex]

How? How could he explain peace's actions?

Read what I said again. Voting Spyrex while pushing a case on his predecessor was you giving Spyrex an opportunity to defend himself while still being on his wagon.

- Des

[Messiah Complex]

...

I am trying to express to you that you consistently attributing a hydra read to a single head is a mistake. It has caused you to catastrophically misread two people in this game. I cannot say with 100% certainty how Fish effects my play, but I know that he has. Do you think hydra partners don't affect each other?

If not, why am I having to argue that they do instead of you acknowledging that you haven't done your due diligence?

- Des

[Nautilius]

How? How could he explain peace's actions?

Read what I said again. Voting Spyrex while pushing a case on his predecessor was you giving Spyrex an opportunity to defend himself while still being on his wagon.

- Des

While voting SpyreX while making a case on him wouldn't be giving him the opportunity to defend himself...?

[Messiah Complex]

How? How could he explain peace's actions?

Read what I said again. Voting Spyrex while pushing a case on his predecessor was you giving Spyrex an opportunity to defend himself while still being on his wagon.

- Des

While voting SpyreX while making a case on him wouldn't be giving him the opportunity to defend himself...?

...without making it more difficult to jump off his wagon.

- Des