A uPick of Ice & Fire - Day 12 - #REKT?

[Nautilius]

That doesn't make sense and is generally a shitty point.

[Messiah Complex]

What doesn't make sense?

Is that your way of saying we're done here or what?

- Des

[Nautilius]

...

I am trying to express to you that you consistently attributing a hydra read to a single head is a mistake. It has caused you to catastrophically misread two people in this game. I cannot say with 100% certainty how Fish effects my play, but I know that he has. Do you think hydra partners don't affect each other?

If not, why am I having to argue that they do instead of you acknowledging that you haven't done your due diligence?

- Des

My read is based on reading you because that's normally how I read hydra. I have read FF posts, but none stood out in particular to me and we are not people who typically interact much in games we play together. I am not going to engage Fish so you feel I'm reading you two correctly, and I see no reason why Fish hydra presence would cause you to play the way you have this game as town. You pretend like hydra partners change each persons game significantly, but usually the differences are pretty fucking subtle, as you've seen?

[Nautilius]

What doesn't make sense?

Is that your way of saying we're done here or what?

- Des

It doesn't make sense that you are criticizing me for pushing a case om SpyreX that was based mainly on his predecessor when he hadn't done a whole lot of posting at that point. It ESPECIALLY doesn't make sense when you're using me pushing on his predecessor as a way to call my push a weak one.

[Nautilius]

Ooba and I are also waiting for initial similarities to my play this game and my play in n's game, so don't forget about that!

[Messiah Complex]

I have challenged your post count/town leader accusations as well. And of the four games you provided for meta only two supported your case.

It's almost like my posting level isn't alignment indicative and varies widely from game to game.

PS one of those lurky games was a first time hydra with mara. Yet you're ignoring that and calling me scum for it anyway.

- Des

[Messiah Complex]

Ooba and I are also waiting for initial similarities to my play this game and my play in n's game, so don't forget about that!

All I said is that you are using the same playbook in endgame. I didn't promise anything more than that.

- Des

[Messiah Complex]

What doesn't make sense?

Is that your way of saying we're done here or what?

- Des

It doesn't make sense that you are criticizing me for pushing a case om SpyreX that was based mainly on his predecessor when he hadn't done a whole lot of posting at that point. It ESPECIALLY doesn't make sense when you're using me pushing on his predecessor as a way to call my push a weak one.

He didn't need to! You already thought the slot was scum and then it quickhammered a shitty wagon! Casing his predecessor was a bunch of white noise that did nothing but waste time and you know it.

How doesn't that make sense? Since when is pushing a new player's predecessor legitimate scumhunting?

You know what I remember? Scum-Tierce casing Tamuz (or Talah, whoever it was that I replaced) in Red Wedding. Can you link me to town-you casing someone's predecessor?

- Des

[Messiah Complex]

Why are you still voting Alchemist? Ooba, Cephrir, Borden--the battle lines have pretty clearly been drawn. It's me or Borden today.

Own it, Nacho.

- Des

[Messiah Complex]

Also so I can go to bed with some kind of resolution. I have to be up in 4 hours.

- Des

[Nautilius]

I have challenged your post count/town leader accusations as well. And of the four games you provided for meta only two supported your case.

It's almost like my posting level isn't alignment indicative and varies widely from game to game.

PS one of those lurky games was a first time hydra with mara. Yet you're ignoring that and calling me scum for it anyway.

- Des

Response to post count is fair! Response to why you weren't a leader is because people weren't listening to you which is a horseshit response.

That lurky game was also lurky as shit, so it doesn't surprise me that you were low activity.

[Nautilius]

What doesn't make sense?

Is that your way of saying we're done here or what?

- Des

It doesn't make sense that you are criticizing me for pushing a case om SpyreX that was based mainly on his predecessor when he hadn't done a whole lot of posting at that point. It ESPECIALLY doesn't make sense when you're using me pushing on his predecessor as a way to call my push a weak one.

He didn't need to! You already thought the slot was scum and then it quickhammered a shitty wagon! Casing his predecessor was a bunch of white noise that did nothing but waste time and you know it.

How doesn't that make sense? Since when is pushing a new player's predecessor legitimate scumhunting?

You know what I remember? Scum-Tierce casing Tamuz (or Talah, whoever it was that I replaced) in Red Wedding. Can you link me to town-you casing someone's predecessor?

- Des

It's legitimate scumhunting when i am doing a reread and resetting things, which is context I got from rereading my ISO. I probably could, but again won't because it's a waste of time.

[Messiah Complex]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TqbxZG6FMeI

[Messiah Complex]

I'm Stringer, Cephrir is the white guy, Borden is Brother Mouzone and Ooba is Omar.

[Messiah Complex]

And you're David Simon.

- Des

[Nautilius]

Why are you still voting Alchemist? Ooba, Cephrir, Borden--the battle lines have pretty clearly been drawn. It's me or Borden today.

Own it, Nacho.

- Des

I'm still not sure where people want to go today. If the people want Messiah, the people will get Messiah.

[Nautilius]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TqbxZG6FMeI

I do still love you, you know.
Go to bed. I doubt we will get much further on this until something new turns up.

[Alfred Borden]

Empire and I having trouble getting on at the same time to decide who to lynch isn't news.
And we liked Spyrex for scum, or at least I did.

My hammers were on obviously-going-to-happen lynches.
Kanye was always more an Empire townread and got guiltied.
Garruk wouldn't have been my choice going into the day but had 2 different guilties on him.
It would've been awesome had I somehow fixed those days and I should've waited for Agar to claim his result (though in this game it prob lynches Garruk) but I'm more displeased about missing D1 / D2.

Anyway, I have 3 abilities (all active):
Dragon Rider - On days where I don't currently have a dragon rider I can target somebody; they become my dragon rider at beginning of night and we get an anytime-QT.
Dragon's Feast - Once during the game I can consume the corpse of a dead player and learn one of their abilities. Further attempts to target that dead player will fail. Requires a dragon rider.
DRAGON FIRE - Not claiming this yet because it's less useful claimed. Requires a dragon rider.

Actions:
D1 - try to Dragon Rider Tammy, fail, reason unknown.
D2 - Dragon Rider Tierce, succeed.
N2 - Tierce makes a comment about a role quest she likely can't achieve thanks to dead Sansa probably having the hairnet required (she didn't tell us she was vanillized until later); we decide to eat Sansa because she didn't get to claim and perhaps it can help Tierce. This succeeds and we find out Amrun had He's a Monster (described earlier). We were pretty pumped about this result, obviously.
D3 - Mentioned Joffrey to Tierce. When the coin came up, it made most sense for Tierce to take it. Probably should've been us in retrospect but meh.

Rest of actions are DRAGON FIRE.

[SafetyDance]

Ugh, there's things I want to respond to from way back when ooba gave his theory. I'm short on time though. Ironically may have more time on Chrissy day itself since most the family is off on their own holidays. Thank god for the extension at least.

I'm finding Nacho very town, but I can't really stomach the AB!Town thing, especially how it would appear like that from his perspective when others are falling. Or that the two false-claimers can be town as well. The problem with all this metarrhea is that most have may not have played with Empire or have to time to trawl through millions of posts. Not to mention, we're playing this game. First and foremost play this game needs to be assessed.

Don't get why it's finally on Day 9 and with an imminent lynch that TA decides he's in this game. How can we process that?

SPOILER THE FUCKING THING WHEN QUOTING A WALL! Holy fucking scroll of doom.

I agree with Magua. In just 2 hours a flash wagon forms on Alfred to L-1? That's pretty much confirming scum in that pool of 4.

Shooting off a list for sake of brevity today:

Nacho - Town
Ceph - Town
Magua - Town

That PoE's it to the others.

Benmage/Ooba/Syry/Titus

Messiah/Shadow/Alfred

That's how I'd group them, not sure which group would mean one is more scummy than the other but 4/7 means we're going to end up really unlucky if we can't lynch some sort of scum out of this group.

I'd prefer to lynch TA still. We really do need him gone. I honestly can't work out which of the others he's with has been scum or just anti-town atm. Ooba's VCA just highlights need to down own analysis but fucking time. I didn't necessarily trust Benmage pre-d9 but he made a fuckton of sense so the whole towel-throwing thing he started yesterday was annoying. Titus is the same as TA really, I was hoping to re-assess after his flip but that hasn't really happened.

The other three have very much flown under the radar. MC's postings look genuine but that's what I felt early in the game and I felt the same with Spy which didn't work out well and I really can't tell the head's apart except when Des signs, not likely on a team with Nacho at least. I'd probably be happy with Shadoweh because of that Alfred quick-wagon was bad which leaves her from that group.

I don't even want to get into the doubts I have over the town reads. Ugh.

Really hoping to be able to knock things on a head and reply and case things before someone is hammered so please hold off the need for that as long as possible.

[Shadoweh]

The other three have very much flown under the radar. MC's postings look genuine but that's what I felt early in the game and I felt the same with Spy which didn't work out well and I really can't tell the head's apart except when Des signs, not likely on a team with Nacho at least. I'd probably be happy with Shadoweh because of that Alfred quick-wagon was bad which leaves her from that group.

I'm reading what's going on but uh I wasn't part of any Alfred quickwagon so what are you talking about?

Alfred what part of that claim has to do with the song, were you talking about trying to neighbourize? And unless you can't neighbourize married people, do you not have a reason for that to have failed? Actually it probably won't be hard to tell if this is accurate based on attitude. One moment!
Alright I see slight hintage that you understood what me and Tammy were talking about early. So question since she didn't tell us, what was her role, and what were her reads going into today? She probably told you to vote Cephrir didn't she? Why did you start off with Benmage?

[Shadoweh]

The her is referring to your rider, not Tammy, who probably didn't tell you anything. you were basically rejected by two girls on the same night >.>b

[Titus]

Four pages of wall spam... And I am on holiday. :$

[ooba]

And also, could I ask you which part of TA's refutation was the best part so I can refute it harder?

TA's refutation had fairly little to do with my read.

Also, close to LyLo, I believe it's best to lynch the guy that everyone calls not-town and is on their scum lists but not the person they're voting for.

I think they're both scum, so lynching either of them seems optimal.
If TA's refutation didn't convince you, run me through one more time why you think TA is town.

Well, it boils down to two things: D3 and my opinion of Syryana's play.
D3: A lot of minor things add up in his favour
- Passing the coin
- Voting SpyreX when I asked him to
- The fact that Quadz, SpyreX both avoided Agar to push TA and Zednek respectively (as explained to Shadoweh a couple of posts back)
- Quadz was also insistent that we lynch Syr after Tierce started the push. How likely is it that scum quadz wanted to lynch ninja-scum TA?

His play D3-D8 lacks any motivation. He's obviously a skilful player; I cannot see him letting his scum team down like that if he drew scum. (The only possibility being traitor-scum that doesn't know who the other scum are - I can people losing motivation in that case)

---

Lemme catch up on this wall

[ooba]

Also we ate amrun corpse and learned of Hes a Monster
If Joffrey baratheon is in the setup hes scum with means of

concealing identity

and 1shot death immunity

Did the role have more info on the concealing identity part? I'm assuming it is to do with role cop results.. (Janitoring seems extreme)

---

Speculation: If Joffrey's in the setup, I'm trying to see how he fits in with 6 scum.

All 6 on the same team

- Joffrey is the scum godfather type roles with both kill and investigation protection
- All scum know who Joffrey is (aka the player with the role)
- They know other scum's role names but not player
- King Jofferey decides which scum to take the kill (He probably cannot kill unless he's the last scum)
- Probably can forsake kill to bring one scum player into the "small council" (scum QT which had only Jofferey at the start)

Overall thoughts on this spec: Not sure since scumhunting becomes much harder - it's like reverse-AITP variant (Assassin's in the palace) where every scum knows king Joffrey. Cop quadz (who I believe claimed his real role - not sure about targets) who can search for his partners via results seems to fit into this setup.
Also, this comment by SpyreX - that has been bothering me for a long time - could be refering to his scum partners who bussed him unknowingly.

So, good luck and may the Others take every one of you that deserve it.

YOU KNOW WHO YOU ARE

Two teams

4:2 with the 2 member team having Jofferey with kill and investigative protection. Don't like this theory because it seems too hard on the 2-member team. Like the above better.

[Benmage]

ooba do yourself a favor and vote alfred