Mini 1531 ~ Mafia Pinnipedum (Game Over!)

[kanyeknowsbest]

so whos scum then selkso and why

[penguin_alien]

More specifically, Selkies, where was the scum on my wagon? Given that as an unknown I should have been a higher priority for a lynch than the claimed VT Smudger?

[walked into a club]

VOTE: Garmr

So I happen to know something you don't want us knowing. Care to explain it to the class?

[Garmr]

VOTE: Garmr

So I happen to know something you don't want us knowing. Care to explain it to the class?

???? I don't know wtf your on about care to explain.

[The Purple Plague]

Purple Plague should be a stronger read probably, but nacho. Recent history says I can't read him for shit but I'm always optimistic that \I'll get him right next time. Until it's next time. In our last few games I think we've both been very suspicious of each other at first when town. The one that gets there first maybe gets a townread from the one who lags a little.

Probably?

yeah, but if you can't sort out nacho, maybe you can try me?

I think I've left some pretty nice stuff.


Hey Syry!

my reads kinda line up with nacho's quite nicely. the DBK read is especially one that I like

everyone who isn't LLD, DDD, or Selkies are decently town

[The Purple Plague]

well, Garmr and nats are more middlish town

and

you, Kanye, and Club make the top (non-confirmed) tier

[Garmr]

I'm really interested Cabd now and what gambit his pulling this time.

[Garmr]

EBWOP
in cabd now

[The Purple Plague]

Does it sound like me as scum?

It has a powerlynch feel to it. But the tempo is off for a powerlynch.

Because I have absolutely no problem switching gears if you want me to.

I want you to do what it takes to get an accurate read. I'll do the same.

Dancing shoes are on, music is playing, I'm doing my stretches and I'm ready to sort you.
You should find this tempo more to your liking.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

oh I cannot wait until I get back into a place where my posts won't be coming from a well of pure rage.

Because if I had to post today, I think I'd probably tear Nacho a couple new assholes, just so he can get out all his bullshit easier.

[The Purple Plague]

I feel the significant thing you did was that wall was bring up your small bits of meta awareness of DDD, and the accuracy of his assessment of an ideal RVS.

197 shows a small step towards sorting Bo, but the "your defensiveness is bothering me some" was a strange thing to pick up on; it's not necessarily something I think you wouldn't pick up on, but it wasn't exactly something that was worth the comment or the meta dive, even.

I asked you how reads we're going in 331 because I noticed nothing seemed to be developing on your end, so your "reads are going well!" response didn't seem consistent with what you had dropped in thread so far. Your major engagement in this wall is with Smudger, who was the flavor of the day at that point; I appreciate that you were trying to gauge my pushes, but normally you're making pushes of your own that I have the opportunity to gauge elsewhere and I didn't feel that was happening earlier in the game.

I liked you warning me off the Smudger wagon early, it was nice, but I already started to move off and the warning was pretty quiet. And as far as a day in a whole goes, I didn't really feel you tried to interact with me much or sort me like you usually do; you had no clear read on me by the end of day 1 (and I not such a clear read on you at the end of day 1), and I was freaking out about it a significant degree more than you were. And you say that I haven't made a significant effort to sort you so far, while those small signs that I expect you to pick up on are all over my ISO (ffery, can you tell me what Smudger is missing? What do you think of my penguin push? Don't fucking hammer until I talk with my parents.).

I saw the Garmr townread, but it was instantly formed and never talked about and never touched again. DBK read was decent because he was seriously town, but you didn't even touch on that all that much. DDD has fallen into obscurity again and you're still calling him town for early activity, no clue what your read on Cabd is composed of, Plum and Kaze reads were immediate and not really explained, no read on Kanye/LLD, no read on us and a tiny sign of being uncomfortable with us. None of these reads really have any depth or trajectory, they're just sort of there.

[The Purple Plague]

oh I cannot wait until I get back into a place where my posts won't be coming from a well of pure rage.

Because if I had to post today, I think I'd probably tear Nacho a couple new assholes, just so he can get out all his bullshit easier.

If you need an outlet for rage, I'm generally a good target for it. I will listen to the words behind the anger AND won't be even a little offended by it.

[The Purple Plague]

danmniel whos scum

If I had a top read I'd be voting for them; right now I'm still evaluating in light of flips and such.

it takes you a really long time to evaluate, danny

Sure, or it was the freaking holidays which means I was never home. Beyond that you want to know one of the biggest reasons why I'm stuck in limbo? Because frankly I want to poke at LLD, the vote yesterday sucked and she just sat on it. There are several problems here, she's not posting but then again I wasn't posting maybe she's lurking but maybe the holidays happened to her as well and I can't fault anyone for that, then there's the fact that I never seem to read her quite right her faux-rage always makes me read town and the apathy I usually associate with scum showed up more in the League mafia when she was town which means I never know what to think with her and finally I'm not sure that's a fight I want to pick simply because it'll be a pain in the ass no matter what I decide in the end.

If you want to poke at LLD, poke at her. You actually putting your balls to the wall and going after someone who will "rip you a few assholes" would certainly go a long way towards me reading you as town; all I can see here is "I have no scumreads except someone who I can't read worth a shit" which is for many reasons.

[The Purple Plague]

Syryana: I'm thinking your slot is town because DBK was genuine as fuck and I'm pretty sure his scumgame doesn't look anything like that. LLD scum for a moment was because I had a paranoid moment because I was getting boxed in by townreads, but then I realized Natirasha and Cabd townreads aren't actually made out of anything solid so Kanye held my hand and told me everything was okay again and I'm generally doing okay.

[The Purple Plague]

If you were to selectively read the first 35 pages, I would selectively read Selkies and the PLAGUE side by side so you can understand my read on ffery, you'll probably see it. Alternatively, don't read the first 35 pages because you really don't need to.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

oh I cannot wait until I get back into a place where my posts won't be coming from a well of pure rage.

Because if I had to post today, I think I'd probably tear Nacho a couple new assholes, just so he can get out all his bullshit easier.

If you need an outlet for rage, I'm generally a good target for it. I will listen to the words behind the anger AND won't be even a little offended by it.

Nah, it's not good for me. I'm trying to step away from rage in circumstances where I can control it.

I'll be back in newfoundland on Tuesday (I fly out Monday night), and out of this hell hole. Then I have 10 pages of game to read .

[Selkies]

I feel the significant thing you did was that wall was bring up your small bits of meta awareness of DDD, and the accuracy of his assessment of an ideal RVS.

197 shows a small step towards sorting Bo, but the "your defensiveness is bothering me some" was a strange thing to pick up on; it's not necessarily something I think you wouldn't pick up on, but it wasn't exactly something that was worth the comment or the meta dive, even.

What meta dive? At that point in the game, his defensive reactions were what stood out to me. I think it was a little later that I started to see the self-deprecation. I'm not sure that's the right word for it, but he switched from reacting defensively to others' comments to sort of agreeing with them and explaining how he tried to compensate for weaknesses in his game.

I asked you how reads we're going in 331 because I noticed nothing seemed to be developing on your end, so your "reads are going well!" response didn't seem consistent with what you had dropped in thread so far. Your major engagement in this wall is with Smudger, who was the flavor of the day at that point; I appreciate that you were trying to gauge my pushes, but normally you're making pushes of your own that I have the opportunity to gauge elsewhere and I didn't feel that was happening earlier in the game.

At that point I had some middling town reads and some null reads and no idea what orcinus was thinking beyond what he'd put in this thread.

I liked you warning me off the Smudger wagon early, it was nice, but I already started to move off and the warning was pretty quiet. And as far as a day in a whole goes, I didn't really feel you tried to interact with me much or sort me like you usually do; you had no clear read on me by the end of day 1 (and I not such a clear read on you at the end of day 1), and I was freaking out about it a significant degree more than you were. And you say that I haven't made a significant effort to sort you so far, while those small signs that I expect you to pick up on are all over my ISO (ffery, can you tell me what Smudger is missing? What do you think of my penguin push? Don't fucking hammer until I talk with my parents.).

I felt the same about you. I chalked it up to holidays and too many games with high demands. I saw the invitations to engage, I tried to meet them. There are similar invitations in my ISO.

I saw the Garmr townread, but it was instantly formed and never talked about and never touched again. DBK read was decent because he was seriously town, but you didn't even touch on that all that much. DDD has fallen into obscurity again and you're still calling him town for early activity, no clue what your read on Cabd is composed of, Plum and Kaze reads were immediate and not really explained, no read on Kanye/LLD, no read on us and a tiny sign of being uncomfortable with us. None of these reads really have any depth or trajectory, they're just sort of there.

I've asked you about players, trying to figure out why you're comfortable with them. That's where most of my questions lie, except for Nati.

DDD has faded. So has LLD. So have a ton of players in a bunch of my games. It puts reads kind of on hold and at a different time of year it would probably make me a lot more jumpy than it is here and now.

Plum was so different from the on a boat mini game - so much more transparent, with reads I could understand - that I was happy to call her town. It never changed. With Kaze, I think with nearly every game we've played so far I wound up either trying to peel players off his wagon or trying to peel him off the wagon of someone I thought was town, or both. He's not hard to read, though I'm watching as his depth of play increases for signs that I could be underestimating him.

Cabd townread developed pretty late, and in fact wasn't a townread until after the fact. The one really significant interaction with him was the clash over my PA vote.

I haven't talked about Nati but his entrance into day 2 raises concerns. I can't tell what/why you're thinking about him, and the opaqueness of your reaction there worries me. Similar worries about you and kanye. It seemed like you had suspicions early on and they evaporated, but I can't see why. I've asked you about Kanye a few times and you really haven't given me anything to hold onto regarding his play.

[Selkies]

Purple Plague should be a stronger read probably, but nacho. Recent history says I can't read him for shit but I'm always optimistic that \I'll get him right next time. Until it's next time. In our last few games I think we've both been very suspicious of each other at first when town. The one that gets there first maybe gets a townread from the one who lags a little.

Probably?

yeah, but if you can't sort out nacho, maybe you can try me?

I think I've left some pretty nice stuff.

Yeah you have. Maybe I should be focusing more on your thoughts. You and I still have trouble reading each other, but it's more of a level playing field in some ways.

Hey Syry!

my reads kinda line up with nacho's quite nicely. the DBK read is especially one that I like

everyone who isn't LLD, DDD, or Selkies are decently town

So you're happy with Kanye and Nati also.

[Selkies]

More specifically, Selkies, where was the scum on my wagon? Given that as an unknown I should have been a higher priority for a lynch than the claimed VT Smudger?

Do you really feel like an unknown in this player list?

This was the penultimate vote count. You went to L-1 IIRC with my vote between this count and smudger's lynch. At the time, I thought the way the smudger wagon came back to life looked possibly scum-driven, and if it weren't for your communicating your masonry before Kaze' flip I'd still be feeling pretty squinty-eyed about you. It kinda reinforces a caveat about town players sometimes winding up in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Smudger (L-2) ~ Lady Lambdadelta, penguin_alien, Kazekirimaru, Plum, Garmr
penguin_alien (L-2) ~ Debonair Danny DiPietro, Natirasha, Smudger, The Purple Plague, Does Bo Know

Nati jumps out of this list. Maybe nachomara, but nacho had a convincing case to go with his vote. Possibly DDD.

Who do you think are the scum on your wagon?

[The Purple Plague]

you went "oh, I see defensiveness in DBK, better do a meta dive". I don't know why his actions were that significant at that point, or even why you found his defensiveness so troubling. It was also a little blah because, if my memory isn't going away because this game got cast to the side a little bit, DBK push had already seemed to form, then you moved. Same with Smudge & penguin wagons, you always seemed to be one step behind and I didn't really know why.

what are your reads looking like now? I'm not as interested in orci's read, but if he actually got engaged in this game and has reads, hit me with them.

your plum read is the strongest evidence of you being town, for some strange reason. I sort of liked Nati trying to bait the SK but when the most significant thing he's done is hunt for a third party then well, I'm not really that satisfied with him being town. Kanye read is usually a read based on what pushes he makes and his interactions with me; not too much more although he does have his extremely town moments. We are currently decently synced up now, so he is not a worry for me.

[The Purple Plague]

What's your opinion of #871?

[penguin_alien]

More specifically, Selkies, where was the scum on my wagon? Given that as an unknown I should have been a higher priority for a lynch than the claimed VT Smudger?

Do you really feel like an unknown in this player list?

Unknown role, not unknown as a player. Mafia scum at least would have figured it quite likely that Smudger was actually just a VT; running up and lynching a VT versus at least running up a potential PR is suboptimal.

This was the penultimate vote count. You went to L-1 IIRC with my vote between this count and smudger's lynch. At the time, I thought the way the smudger wagon came back to life looked possibly scum-driven, and if it weren't for your communicating your masonry before Kaze' flip I'd still be feeling pretty squinty-eyed about you. It kinda reinforces a caveat about town players sometimes winding up in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Smudger (L-2) ~ Lady Lambdadelta, penguin_alien, Kazekirimaru, Plum, Garmr
penguin_alien (L-2) ~ Debonair Danny DiPietro, Natirasha, Smudger, The Purple Plague, Does Bo Know

Nati jumps out of this list. Maybe nachomara, but nacho had a convincing case to go with his vote. Possibly DDD.

Who do you think are the scum on your wagon?

As you said, seeing as you voted me right after this vote count, my wagon more accurately looked like: penguin_alien (L-1) ~ Debonair Danny DiPietro, Natirasha, Smudger, The Purple Plague, Does Bo Know, Selkies

Smudger = conftown, if DBK is scum of any variety I'll be shocked, and I highly doubt Natirasha is Mafia-scum at least. So PoE says scum on my wagon is in {DDD, TPP, Selkies}

The TPP case on me was that I was town-reading them too easily, I asked a question of Garmr that wasn't viewed as helpful, and they didn't like my reasoning for Smudger-scum for nebulous reasons. In my experience, scum tend to object to being town-read for unclear reasons more readily than town, Garmr throwing mud on Smudger without following up with a vote for incredibly sketchy reasons is more clearly scummy now (more on that in another post), although I'll somewhat concede their dislike of my read on Smudger, although given that I was pretty confident scum had daytalk him seeming to take a dive fit with him being scum receiving coaching. What part of the case on me did you like enough to put me at L-1 and never move your vote?

What about Natirasha is making you think scum?

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Sure, or it was the freaking holidays which means I was never home. Beyond that you want to know one of the biggest reasons why I'm stuck in limbo? Because frankly I want to poke at LLD, the vote yesterday sucked and she just sat on it. There are several problems here, she's not posting but then again I wasn't posting maybe she's lurking but maybe the holidays happened to her as well and I can't fault anyone for that, then there's the fact that I never seem to read her quite right her faux-rage always makes me read town and the apathy I usually associate with scum showed up more in the League mafia when she was town which means I never know what to think with her and finally I'm not sure that's a fight I want to pick simply because it'll be a pain in the ass no matter what I decide in the end.

This kinda makes me want to lynch you. Let's shelve LLD for a moment. What are your top two townreads and scumreads? Why?

Note to self: honesty not effective, resume lying as town. Scum reads: living people on the Smudger wagon, it was a bad wagon. Town reads: PA due to likely masonness, I would've said Garmr but there might be something interesting going on there, too early to tell.

If you want to poke at LLD, poke at her. You actually putting your balls to the wall and going after someone who will "rip you a few assholes" would certainly go a long way towards me reading you as town; all I can see here is "I have no scumreads except someone who I can't read worth a shit" which is for many reasons.

Thanks for the blandtastic advice, if I wanted to do something rest assured I would. And trust me I'm opportunistic enough that I calculated in the value of town-cred for playing with LLD in my calculations. Unfortunately, I remain confident of my ability to talk my way out of anything and that road still seems both ineffective and unfun.

[Selkies]

you went "oh, I see defensiveness in DBK, better do a meta dive". I don't know why his actions were that significant at that point, or even why you found his defensiveness so troubling. It was also a little blah because, if my memory isn't going away because this game got cast to the side a little bit, DBK push had already seemed to form, then you moved. Same with Smudge & penguin wagons, you always seemed to be one step behind and I didn't really know why.

I don't remember saying I was going to do a meta dive. I didn't do one. By the time I might have gotten around to one if I had concerns, he'd already obvtowned as far as I was concerned, and he was the only real read that Orcinus had. I had 2 MS games with Bo and one offsite game. It was enough data to like how he reacted to his wagon. It reminded me some of the day he was lynched in the newbie game where I replaced scum-Smudger.

what are your reads looking like now? I'm not as interested in orci's read, but if he actually got engaged in this game and has reads, hit me with them.

My reads are all over the last page or two. I'm having trouble believing they aren't obvious.

your plum read is the strongest evidence of you being town, for some strange reason. I sort of liked Nati trying to bait the SK but when the most significant thing he's done is hunt for a third party then well, I'm not really that satisfied with him being town. Kanye read is usually a read based on what pushes he makes and his interactions with me; not too much more although he does have his extremely town moments. We are currently decently synced up now, so he is not a worry for me.

What kanye pushes are giving you a townfeel?

[Selkies]

What's your opinion of #871?

I liked the tone. The frustration feels genuine.

The run-on, overworked feel of the sentences kinda pings in a generic way, but a lot of MS players ping in that way and I don't usually flag something like that anymore unless there's a lot else that bothers me.