Mini 1537: ATTACK ON TITAN (Game Over!)

[pieguyn]

Occam's razor. I'm not going to assume he'd purposely destroy a perfectly good mislynch outlet in some sort of next-level plot because he played well as scum in game X. If that's the way to win the game, all scum should just claim scum in their first post and vote their partners from the get-go because next-level WIFOMsandwiches. You're confbiasing.

exactly, which is why him doing that is null at best. the fact that he did this isn't a scumtell, but it's not a towntell either. I also think that the "all weak = town" got destroyed as soon as mod threw that scum got fakeclaims, and it prob would have been brought up anyway when discussing lynch options. so him bringing it up now probably didn't do anything 0.0

[Plum]

Hmm. Tried reading again. I think he's wrong - that is, I think his view of your play, that lead to his vote, is not actually the design or intent of your play. But I'm not convinced that this is scum nefariousness on his part.

Also Tammy needs to get her ass in here and obvtown up so she can lead. Towns without structure suck :/

I'd be happy to take up the position.

Agree that Bro's stuff regarding the setup and setup speculation isn't a significant Towntell. It's always nice to have common sense about, though.

[Paschendale]

@ Pasch, you haven't explained any of your initial scumreads now jumping onto Kagami. What changed? What you claimed was scummy about Kagami was something she posted much before your initial catch-up posts.

What about Plum did you find scummy?

Nothing changed other than taking some time to consider the implications of Kagami's gambit. Pie is still scummy, but was my second choice vote while typing my first post. Kagami was my first choice, because how obviously asking other weak players to claim was as rolefishing, because we all thought it meant what it usually does. Kagami dropped the explanation about the weak modifier being something different right as I was posting it. I was about to leave for a bit and wanted to think about it, but wanted to vote, so I went with my second choice. I had several comments about all of this at the time, and then she dropped the bomb. I didn't know what to think then, so I said that instead. Then, I had a chance to think about it some more and realized how it all fit together.

Plum is mainly just a reaction to her tone, but she did go along with Kagami right away. She was one of the few not to react with "what's a weak miller?" My asking that was another thing I amended in my first post right before submitting it. But Plum fell in line right away. In general, though, her posts contain quips, emotes, and unsupported votes. But nothing resembling cases or opinions. Some of it is associative to Kagami, and that's unwise without a flip, but the rest is dodgy comments and tone.

It's not that I thought or didn't think there was a third weak player - It's that it sounded like Kagami knew there were more since she said she wouldn't explain the modifier until another person claimed it.

And that doesn't bother you? You are pointing out all the same things I said about Kagami's actions, but somehow you ignore the obvious conclusion. In fact, you have tried really hard to avoid any conclusions about it. Do you think her actions were deliberate? Accidental? Is it scum motivated or town motivated?

If you're right, I was basically handing out mad town-cred.

And outing PRs.

[pieguyn]

Pie is still scummy, but was my second choice vote while typing my first post.

hi
care to answer my questions? 128

also looking back you were agreeing with kaze who never even explained his notions on F-16 or me. why do you think we're scum?

[Kazekirimaru]

And that doesn't bother you? You are pointing out all the same things I said about Kagami's actions, but somehow you ignore the obvious conclusion. In fact, you have tried really hard to avoid any conclusions about it. Do you think her actions were deliberate? Accidental? Is it scum motivated or town motivated?

I've avoided conclusions? My answers to all this questions should be intrinsically obvious at this point. I think her actions were town motivated and deliberately working towards developing the town's position.

Do you always attempt to cast suspicion on those who disagree with you?

[Plum]

Plum is mainly just a reaction to her tone, but she did go along with Kagami right away. She was one of the few not to react with "what's a weak miller?" My asking that was another thing I amended in my first post right before submitting it. But Plum fell in line right away. In general, though, her posts contain quips, emotes, and unsupported votes. But nothing resembling cases or opinions. Some of it is associative to Kagami, and that's unwise without a flip, but the rest is dodgy comments and tone.

Cases are scummy, haven't you heard? But I'll tear you apart a little if you like. I might even enjoy it.

I'm someone named Annie lionhart

Weak human miller aka miller

G2g though to watch bama sooners game at dinner

????

Very odd claim. How is your Millerhood described in your Role PM, if you can paraphrase please.

I'm going to put my evaluation on hold until Bert answers my earlier question, anyway. It should help clear up what 'Weak' is doing here, too.

There was a reason I asked what I did the way I did, you know.

Your case against Kagami is blatantly disingenuous and a very bad move on your part. She never, contrary to your statements, implied that it was the Normal Weak modifier:

The "Weak" thing is legit, it doesn't mean weak in the traditional sense. Since Bert is the first to mention it, he's town.

It don't know that anyone thought 'Weak' meant what it usually does - it was pretty clear to me by the time she explained it that it probably meant what she then went on to say it means and that she believed scum didn't have access to the fact that such a modifier would be part of the setup.

She never asked for another 'Weak' claim - only stated what she'd do in the event of a third one - which, considering what she assumed about scum knowledge, was a pretty reasonable approach.

I think it is far more likely that she or part of the scum team is a goon and has the weak modifier, hence how they know what it means.

This isn't even remotely plausible. Scum don't and can't have the Weak modifier; they are Weak by default.

Anyway, we should lynch this.

[Kagami]

pasch, I'm quite sure I'm correct about everything I said regarding the weak modifier, the "danger" was that scum would know what it is (either through their fake-claim information or through special mod-granted setup knowledge as bro suggested) and would use that knowledge to snatch some town-cred. The fact that nobody jumped on being the third "claim" suggests to me that they weren't given explicit setup knowledge regarding the modifier, and if one of them has the modifier in their fake-claim, they didn't figure out what it meant (it's not obvious, as bert proved, and would be even less obvious to scum who wouldn't have it on their real PM despite lacking maneuver gear).

Anyway, the argument seems fabricated.

VOTE: Pasch

[Kagami]

Plum, pie, and bert are town.

151 makes me think Bro might be too, but I've heard he's a very competent scum, so I'm less certain.

[mykonian]

It's pleasant to see such youthful exuberance, but you'll have to excuse me, I'm not yet able to reply.

Lets read what you've said so far

[mykonian]

Bert claim. Fine. Sounds like something for the next couple of days.

but if F-16 and I were scum would we really buddy each other out in the open like this?

WIFOM. Not helping your case.

Can you please stop being a scumbag. As a person. It's messing with my reads.

If we were judging based on flavor, Annie would make no sense as a miller given how the manga goes (btw the manga is like 10000000x better than the anime). Since flavor isn't alignment indicative, Bert's probably town.*

I'm assuming F-16 has some sort of history with pie that would cause him to reach out there over me or muffin.

wtf is Mykonian's read list.

VOTE: Pie

I don't like the way you're pushing the Annie flavor based on the anime when the game's based on the manga, with Annie's alignment in the manga being incredibly clear. It's like you're simultaneously trying to write-off the flavor while using it to potentially position an attack later.

*subject to change based on how much he leverages the equity on his claim. Weak thing also needs to be explained.

idk, it was late, and I wanted to have a post out but couldn't actually get my mind going. So I wrote up what I thought of the playerlist. Get acquainted, I guess. Also, I'm aware I might not always be the most easy person, and some of the people playing were in recent games... might help to tell them what I think without playing the game yet. Avoid the worst about it this game, I guess.

Don't fish for this kaze, he's legit.

AAAAARG. The amount of truth in these words hurt my eyes.


I wouldn't be at all surprised if F-16 was scum this game. Post 92 is not town at all. 4 pages to go but I don't think I'll find a better vote that easily.

vote f16

Paschendale's entrance is decent.

hmm. Mod stepping in, but I think that goes either way. It's usually a bad sign. But I think I have to give pitoli the benefit of the doubt here. Maybe she would rather put that sentence out if bert is indeed town and we confirm him without intended reason, but on the other hand, I don't know pitoli well enough to say she wouldn't pity town "confirming" scum as town under false assumptions.

But please, please be careful pitoli. Kaze speaks some true words in 124. Shame it's to the mod, if only he could be just as reasonable when playing a game...

oooh, pie likes me! woo. Hi pie! Def taking pie's side in 165. Lets not seem ungrateful to subdued buddying. It's an art.

Also without joking, pie is right about bro's defense. It's awkward, it's contained on purpose, it's discrediting rather then addressing. It doesn't look good. Don't know bro well enough to say it's style or allignment.

[mykonian]

I think I'd like more time to sort out bro. As said, I don't actually know him and I could be reading things he considers normal. Like our beloved Kaze, the permanent scum.

I have seen f-16 before, a couple of times now. I think I've started to get a feel for the guy. Possibly maybe. I think that's the first place we should look.

[zMuffinMan]

i'm basically an innocent child

i dare scum to try and lynch me

[zMuffinMan]

a couple assumptions i'm making about this setup based on my role:

- setup is single faction, 10:3 (not explaining this, don't ask)
- scum don't have day talk (see above)
- one of the three main characters is scum (mod insistence that flavour has nothing to do with alignment has me thinking this is likely the case, as does something else - and if i had to guess which, i'd say eren)
- scum probably already know my character flavour. not that it really matters

also, plum is scum

Vote: Plum

bro might be scum, too. and kaze

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Pie, I am not convinced that BRO's assumptions about whether you know the anime = scum. He is null for now. I'll go through his other games to see how he opens his attacks as town or scum. That should shed a better light on his affiliation. Can you link the games you have played with BRO? Pasch is leaning scum.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Muffin, explain Plum-scum.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

What about post 92 didn't you like, Mykonian?

[pieguyn]

myko stop voting F-16 and sheep me onto BRO

he was scum v. me in this game. in that game the game was in MYLO on D3 (there were 7 people alive with 2 scum), although we didn't know it. BRO as scum had got lynched on D2 and the two remaining scum were his partners (zmuffin and GIF/Nacho hydra). I pegged one of the scum, had the other scum as my 3rd, but then got manipulated onto my other scumread who wasn't scum on the basis that it wasn't XYLO and lost the game bc of that.

the point is, BRO knows I get sidetracked easily, and he also knows that I don't back down often, based on a 1v1 I had early game v. Varsoon (this was also where I referenced him making a sketchy jump early game). so that kind of defense is exactly what I would expect from scum-BRO in this kind of situation. "oh look, pie's making an early push on me. I'll just completely brush it off, then respond with some aggression so that he backs off and goes to look elsewhere! I don't even have to address anything which will give him a foothold to make a better push on me, so that I get to avoid an early game push from him. and no one will notice how I'm not actually answering anything at all bc of all the towncred I get by pointing out the flaw in Kagami's plan." ok mb that was exaggerated a bit but you get the idea

[pieguyn]

Pie, I am not convinced that BRO's assumptions about whether you know the anime = scum. He is null for now. I'll go through his other games to see how he opens his attacks as town or scum. That should shed a better light on his affiliation. Can you link the games you have played with BRO? Pasch is leaning scum.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=32587
that's the only one. he was scum I was town

also it's not just the fact he made that assumption. it's how his "engagement" with me was nothing but a bunch of loaded questions that made said assumptions. it's bad enough he made said assumption (especially after I told him I didn't know flavor) but then he used it to come up with a bunch of fake reasons to throw blame at me and get me off him. there's also how he blatantly ignored the fact that another assumption he was making was incorrect. IMO it makes way more sense in the context of my above post. unless that's what you meant

[pieguyn]

@zmuffin:

do you think BRO's play is similar to imperishable night? also why not wagon BRO with us

[Kazekirimaru]

It's pleasant to see such youthful exuberance, but you'll have to excuse me, I'm not yet able to reply.

Lets read what you've said so far

Emoticons! myko is town!

I wouldn't be at all surprised if F-16 was scum this game. Post 92 is not town at all. 4 pages to go but I don't think I'll find a better vote that easily.

What's so bad about 92?

a couple assumptions i'm making about this setup based on my role:

- setup is single faction, 10:3 (not explaining this, don't ask)
- scum don't have day talk (see above)
- one of the three main characters is scum (mod insistence that flavour has nothing to do with alignment has me thinking this is likely the case, as does something else - and if i had to guess which, i'd say eren)
- scum probably already know my character flavour. not that it really matters

also, plum is scum

Vote: Plum

bro might be scum, too. and kaze

It's not me, muffin.

[zMuffinMan]

@f16,

Why shouldn't we lynch you today, Paschendale?

this was where i started thinking plum scum

although none of plum's earlier posts were all that great, this is just the type of question i hate the most. i've never seen a town player ask this sort of question, and i can recall examples of scum players using it (like, most recently, pa in FEA)

also didn't like #180. i'm pretty sure you've read imperishable night, or at least skimmed the important parts. how do you not see similarities to my play re varsoon/pie there?

[zMuffinMan]

This isn't even remotely plausible. Scum don't and can't have the Weak modifier; they are Weak by default.

oh, also, i don't really get this part

[mykonian]

myko stop voting F-16 and sheep me onto BRO

he was scum v. me in this game. in that game the game was in MYLO on D3 (there were 7 people alive with 2 scum), although we didn't know it. BRO as scum had got lynched on D2 and the two remaining scum were his partners (zmuffin and GIF/Nacho hydra). I pegged one of the scum, had the other scum as my 3rd, but then got manipulated onto my other scumread who wasn't scum on the basis that it wasn't XYLO and lost the game bc of that.

the point is, BRO knows I get sidetracked easily, and he also knows that I don't back down often, based on a 1v1 I had early game v. Varsoon (this was also where I referenced him making a sketchy jump early game). so that kind of defense is exactly what I would expect from scum-BRO in this kind of situation. "oh look, pie's making an early push on me. I'll just completely brush it off, then respond with some aggression so that he backs off and goes to look elsewhere! I don't even have to address anything which will give him a foothold to make a better push on me, so that I get to avoid an early game push from him. and no one will notice how I'm not actually answering anything at all bc of all the towncred I get by pointing out the flaw in Kagami's plan." ok mb that was exaggerated a bit but you get the idea

that last paragraph is not that great pie. Please leave that out, you'll be turning people off. That's classic tunneling, it's looking for meaning in random things and paranoia about a person you know. Your points are valid otherwise, just don't bring that up, please.

Also, F-16 is more obvious. Lets get him first.

What about post 92 didn't you like, Mykonian?

the manner of posting. I seriously doubt you could have made that post as town. Even if that could happen, you wouldn't been very enthusiastic about it if you were town. You would rather have written something different.

It's pleasant to see such youthful exuberance, but you'll have to excuse me, I'm not yet able to reply.

Lets read what you've said so far

Emoticons! myko is town!

I'm pretty sure I explained why that tell works on me. Makes it a bit doubtful. Lets not do a double wifom dance here. Making a tell out of someone overcompensating conciously isn't very advisable, I'd say.

I'm also rather curious about the plum mumblings. How many of you know her?

[mykonian]

also, kaze, now you are here. You can see why 92 is scummy, right? I only have to explain to f-16 why he got caught, I hope. He's obviously unaware or he wouldn't have made 92.

[Kazekirimaru]

I wasn't exactly serious about the emoticon thing.

Regarding F-16: I

think

I see it, but I'll think on it rather than beg you for more explanation.