Mini 1537: ATTACK ON TITAN (Game Over!)

[Kazekirimaru]

Kay.

[umvote][/unvote]
VOTE: ActionDan

[ActionDan]

Kay.

[umvote][/unvote]
VOTE: ActionDan

you are so easily cajoled by scum. shame on you

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Dan, I don't know if you are town or scum, but if town, stop playing coy. I want to know whether or not you have legitimate reads or just BSing them out of nowhere. Walk me through your thought process. How did you arrive at the conclusions you did? Trolling isn't helping.

[mykonian]

Do you have an actual townread on Dan or just because he voted for me? You are going down the conf-bias tunnel of thinking you know someone's meta like you did with Thor in the other game we played together. As far as Dan's play so far is concerned, I don't find him town at all.

No, because he's wrong about the reason. That makes him quite town.

Why? because that means I get the reasoning. The point he makes was the reason why I would often get a scumvibe from you early in the game. It takes a way of looking at things that I recognise, and I don't bother with it as scum. Also, he expects it to be obvious. It kind of is. It's hard to be that certain it's simple if you are scum and your cases are a usually a bit constructed.

Dan is as town as they get.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

@ Myk, you've never played with scum-me and we only have one completed game together.

[mykonian]

the beauty of alts. Also, read a couple of other games last time for exactly the same reason as dan is voting you right now.

So, eh, no. You can keep trying, but you would really prefer to make a different post then 92 if you had been town.

[BROseidon]

1) You suck at reading me.

wow nice discredit. still doesn't change the fact that you jumped on me early game for a sketchy reason

also I'm 1/1 on reading you, so this isn't even correct. the only completed game we have together is imperishable night and although you did fool me D1, I came around to it on D2. so that's a blatant fucking lie

2) I make early pressure moves regardless of alignment

this is a blatant strawman. it's not bc you made an early pressure move, it's bc the early pressure move you made was shit and it p much exactly matches up with how you played in imperishable night. your jump on Varsoon in that game was an early pressure move, but it was bad bc the reasoning for it was sketchy as fuck. what's different about this?

Were you just sheeping BS on your flavor comment, then?

I was sheeping what everyone was saying about the flavor bc if everyone agrees about it then it's probably true. I had no way of knowing whether said flavor was BS or not, and from what people are saying it doesn't appear to be BS in the first place.

why are you assuming I knew said flavor was BS when sheeping it? like you apparently think that I'm scum who was deliberately sheeping BS?

this is exactly why your push on me sucks. first, you said I was scum who was writing off flavor while positioning for a flavor based attack later, citing the differentiation between anime and manga to back it up. but in order for this to the case, I have to be familiar enough with the flavor to know the difference in annie's position between anime/manga, and know which one this game is based off of. this assumption comes straight out of thin air and I don't see at all how the fuck you felt comfortable making an assumption like that. not to mention someone said your idea that the game is based exclusively off the manga is incorrect to begin with. when I told you I don't know the flavor, you completely dodged me. instead you left your vote on me and continued the push, despite one of the underlying assumptions behind your push was demonstrated to be unequivocally incorrect (game being based on manga), which in this case fked up a lot of your reasoning. and now you accuse me of sheeping smth that's BS, which makes the assumption that I knew it was BS. which is the same thing. why would you make an assumption like that considering

I just said I don't know the flavor?

tl;dr: you assumed smth that is completely false and there was no reason for you to assume that. your reason for voting me is entirely fabricated and not coming from a legitimate thought process. your logic is contradictory as fuck and the way you're trying to completely dismiss me with these terribad illogical arguments is, guess what? scummy as fuck. die :>

vote: BRO

and one more thing. go back and look at all your illogic in NY167. you discredited, misrep'd, and strawmanned all over the place. this is the same shit. if I apparently "suck at reading you" as you say, then why are my arguments against you incorrect? you still haven't given an explanation why. good luck ~

1) My reason for jumping on you wasn't sketch. Yeah, early game isn't going to have to most evidence, but that doesn't mean that I'm going to sit around and wait for someone to stumble. I'm going to press something minor and get pressure moving.

2) You read me in the game where I was trying to get lynched on day 2, so grats on that

3) What's different about this is that my reasoning was fine. You awkwardly postured around Bert's claim. I attacked you for it.

4) BS = Brian Skies, obviously. You missed that part, which is super suspect, give that he's the one who said Annie's alignment in the show was ambiguous, which you then worked off of. The fact that you then didn't catch me referring back to that point indicates a lack of solid trajectory, aka scum trying to bullshit reasons without understanding what those reasons are

5) I didn't cite a difference b/w the manga and the anime, I assumed that the anime hasn't gotten as far as the manga, so that someone watching only the anime might not have known how that arc would have ended.

6) I didn't dodge that you didn't know the flavor; I tried to work out where you got that idea from, and tracked it back to BS (Brian Skies, so you can't misrep me again on this. You then COMPLETELY MISSED THAT.

You're now going to try to play off that you didn't realize BS=Brian Skies in my previous post, and that you forgot that he was the one (and only one before you) who first said that Annie's alignment in the series is ambiguous.

Holy shit you're worse than mastin was in Anything Goes with the mist.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

the beauty of alts. Also, read a couple of other games last time for exactly the same reason as dan is voting you right now.

So, eh, no. You can keep trying, but you would really prefer to make a different post then 92 if you had been town.

Dan is voting me because he is probably scum.

I've never made a post like 92 before as town or scum. This was unique. Calling it scummy by itself could at least be forgiven for a misguided townie. If you calling it scummy on a meta-level, show me similar posts I've made as scum.

[BROseidon]

now I need lots more votes on BRO, and anyone who disagrees needs to go up and look at how none of his logic is actually correct. my tl;dr at the end explains it p well. hardly ggs

Building an argument about how my logic was wrong based on misinterpreting "BS" is pretty... bs...

Oh I'm so punny.

[BROseidon]

why do you think he'd always do the most obvious strategy? this is the same guy who stole a weak neighborize and suicided on his partner just to give her a ridiculous amt of towncred. it's obvious BRO would NOT necessarily make the obvious scum play all the time and I could totally see him doing this for the towncred

"He's scum because he's a strong scum player, so he'd make that sort of play as scum."

...

...

...

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

BRO, thoughts on Mykonian and Dan?

[BROseidon]

I also think that the "all weak = town" got destroyed as soon as mod threw that scum got fakeclaims, and it prob would have been brought up anyway when discussing lynch options. so him bringing it up now probably didn't do anything 0.0

Why didn't it get brought up immediately, though?

Probably because scum were hoping to obfuscate it to stall out for as long as possible, or to set up some sort of play.

pedit: mykonian seemed okay from his first post and I haven't gotten to a Dan post yet.

[BROseidon]

I'd be happy to take up the position.

Then start building some structure.

Because so far everyone's running around with their heads cut off.

[BROseidon]

Anyway, we should lynch this.

It needs pressure, but I have reservations about him being scum.

Namely, why would he push Kagami when she's positionally weak in a Kagami-town/Pasch-scum gamestate?

I'm gonna backend that thought a bit.

[BROseidon]

pasch, I'm quite sure I'm correct about everything I said regarding the weak modifier, the "danger" was that scum would know what it is (either through their fake-claim information or through special mod-granted setup knowledge as bro suggested) and would use that knowledge to snatch some town-cred. The fact that nobody jumped on being the third "claim" suggests to me that they weren't given explicit setup knowledge regarding the modifier, and if one of them has the modifier in their fake-claim, they didn't figure out what it meant (it's not obvious, as bert proved, and would be even less obvious to scum who wouldn't have it on their real PM despite lacking maneuver gear).

This is super WIFOM and not a good assumption to make.

Scum claiming weak, given knowledge of what it was, would be a gambit similar PGO or miller claiming. I don't know most people's scum games who are here (I've only seen Bert/Muffin/Tammy as scum), but I don't get the impression that we have a lot of gambit-happy players.

[BROseidon]

151 makes me think Bro might be too, but I've heard he's a very competent scum, so I'm less certain.

Oh god it's this again.

I might actually go on hiatus if this becomes a thing. My mislynch rate is high enough as it is; I don't need to functionally become a PL :/

[BROseidon]

Ugh brb have to take a shit. On Mykonian's response to me.

[Kazekirimaru]

I sure do love spam posting.

Anyway, I feel pretty damn uncomfortable voting with F-16 right now.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: F-16

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

I sure do love spam posting.

Anyway, I feel pretty damn uncomfortable voting with F-16 right now.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: F-16

Why?

[Kazekirimaru]

I don't like how you're interfacing with Dan and Myko, though I'm not quite sure why yet.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

I've been trying pretty hard to figure out Dan's affiliation. In 252, I attempt to prod him into the game and start providing reasoning for his reads. I clarified his misrep to see if he understands where he went wrong. I have been trying to pressure him into towntelling if he is town.

In my interactions with Myk, I debunked his claim of meta. I pointed out that he has never played with me as scum before. I also asked him to show an example of me making a post like 92 as scum.

Compare Myk's and Dan's responses:
Dan continues to troll and provide no reasoning for his reads despite being probed about it.
He says "don't be cajoled by scum" which doesn't do anything to advance the gamestate.
Myk continues to provide no reasoning despite his being debunked.

I mean, compare and contrast, how is my interaction with them something you don't like?

[Tammy]

Here we go!

So, I was really super stoked that I got a special one-shot commuter role, then I saw that it was the vanilla role and was bummed, then came the weak discussion and I feel semi-special again. kagami is almost definitely town based solely on the confidence she seemed to have with the whole weak discussion. I don't get Pasch's argument at all. The Vanilla role has the one-shot commuter thingy, so there's no way she was trying to get people to out having power roles by wondering if there was one more weak person. All the weak thing seems to do is not have that commuter thing and there's really nothing stating that a weak person couldn't have another role, which is backed up by Bert claiming Weak Human Miller. So, yeah that argument is super wtf land and I'm not sure I even buy that he buys it. I mean I get role shit confused all the time, so I would sympathize but he looks like he's pushing an argument just to push an argument. My only experience with Pasch is mafiastuck though where he was super obvious scum. If I feel like it later, I'll look back at that game but it was a year ago and I think he was new then, so it might be meh. Nothing he's said has looked town though.

I think that Plum looks town too and mostly that comes from what looks like spontaneous posting. I followed the On the Boat game once empire replaced in and Plum's posting there was more calculated and seemed planned there, which is different from here. Also, I'm just not sure this comes from Plum!scum:

Also Tammy needs to get her ass in here and obvtown up so she can lead. Towns without structure suck :/

I'd be happy to take up the position.

I'm pretty sure I remember empire telling me that Plum isn't very confident in her scum game. (I don't have my chat logs with him anymore, so don't quote me on this). But, she's comfortable with her town game, so I think that she'd be less likely to offer to take a leadership position as scum.

also oops I forgot tammy
TOWN BLOCK: me, Brian, F-16, Tammy

Tammy hasn't posted yet?

I'm always town, duh.


Bert is probs town, but I feel like I will be able to read him correctly soon enough. And I do agree with whoever said that Bert probably wouldn't fake claim miller as scum, because he just isn't comfortable enough with his scum game to do that. HOWEVER, I did see Salamance fakeclaim miller on day one of a game and ride it to endgame even though he relished the fact that he was a Vi and was uncomfortable playing scum. Not to compare the two of them, but I've seen it done though so. Bert can be quite obvious town when he wants to though, so I'm just hoping he'll bring that thang.

I'm not getting the Falcon hate though. Myko, I really don't see what you see in Post 92. That's exactly the type of analysis I'd expect to see from Falcon!town, so I'm not sure why you think it's out of place or that it's scum motivated. If I squint, I might be able to see where Dan is coming from. He's either looking for a vote or a follow up to the original question? But I don't see why that's scum. I mean he literally posted one minute after Bert's claim to suggest to Brian that they lynch the miller claim. Let's say Falcon is scum and Brian is town, that would mean in that one minute, Falcon!scum went well I know that Brian is town and he was lynched as a miller before, let's see if I can make a gambit in hopes of what? making Brian look town? It seems far more likely to me that he suspected Brian in the first place, saw a way to test him, and did.

I had an early scum read on Pie, but I'm starting to lean away from that based on his whoa posts against Broseidon as they kinda remind me about how up in arms I can get when I think that scum is pushing on me. Though Pie, you do realize that BS is Brian Skies right? I think you're misunderstanding a good part of that. Though what I absolutely hate hate hate about Pie's reactions to Bro is the default to throw out the buzzwords. He's not discrediting you by telling you that you suck at reading him. He's telling you your read is wrong; now you can argue that he's lying about that, but that's not a discredit. I tell people they suck at reading me all the time when they consistently read me wrong and being someone who is super easy to read, I'm shocked by the people who continually do. Anyway, I'll look at a scum game of Pie's to see if he's capable of sounding this riled up as scum.

Myko - Could you just speak clearly and out with it? Your prolonging this thing about the falcon scum read and acting all secretive about it isn't helping. And I can't tell if I find you suspicious because I really think you're suspicious or because you're just irritating the hell out of me.

I think Muffin is prob town for the incredibly bold roleclaim

This isn't a good reason to town read muffin. Though I do agree with muffin that there's a good chance that there's scum in the main characters and things he said in his first or second post.

and Kaze might be scum. He doesn't really feel like he's trying to figure out the game and there's this:

I wasn't exactly serious about the emoticon thing.

Regarding F-16: I

think

I see it, but I'll think on it rather than beg you for more explanation.

I hate this. In Post 194 he asked what was so bad about Post 92. Mykonian, *twitches, cracks neck and knuckles* doesn't explain in Post 198 he rather challenges Kaze to see it. Myk should have explained it, but he doesn't. So what does Kaze think he sees? It looks like Kaze is gearing up to be persuaded by this scum read. HOWEVER Kaze is new at this game. It is possible that he thinks he's supposed to see something there, and doesn't want to admit that he has no clue what Myk is talking about.

Also Tammy needs to get her ass in here and obvtown up so she can lead. Towns without structure suck :/

Haven't you only seen me as scum?

VOTE: paschendale

Falcon - What's your read on Pie?

[BROseidon]

idk, it was late, and I wanted to have a post out but couldn't actually get my mind going. So I wrote up what I thought of the playerlist. Get acquainted, I guess. Also, I'm aware I might not always be the most easy person, and some of the people playing were in recent games... might help to tell them what I think without playing the game yet. Avoid the worst about it this game, I guess.

So there wasn't any intention off of it; nothing you were trying to gauge or push?

[BROseidon]

- setup is single faction, 10:3 (not explaining this, don't ask)
- scum don't have day talk (see above)
- one of the three main characters is scum (mod insistence that flavour has nothing to do with alignment has me thinking this is likely the case, as does something else - and if i had to guess which, i'd say eren)
- scum probably already know my character flavour. not that it really matters

1) Probably
2) Maybe; day talk seems like a pretty good balancing factor to ~8 1-shot commutes
3) Maybe; there's almost definitely some number of "good" guys as scum and "bad" guys as town.
4) k

[BROseidon]

the point is, BRO knows I get sidetracked easily, and he also knows that I don't back down often, based on a 1v1 I had early game v. Varsoon (this was also where I referenced him making a sketchy jump early game). so that kind of defense is exactly what I would expect from scum-BRO in this kind of situation. "oh look, pie's making an early push on me. I'll just completely brush it off, then respond with some aggression so that he backs off and goes to look elsewhere! I don't even have to address anything which will give him a foothold to make a better push on me, so that I get to avoid an early game push from him. and no one will notice how I'm not actually answering anything at all bc of all the towncred I get by pointing out the flaw in Kagami's plan." ok mb that was exaggerated a bit but you get the idea

Wtf I respond directly to you, ask you questions, and keep the pressure on you, and you turn around and say that I'm trying to brush you off?

No.

You're my main focus now.