Mini 1537: ATTACK ON TITAN (Game Over!)

[Kazekirimaru]

Pretty sure both Pieguy and Bro are town because their argument sounds a lot like the argument Pie had with me in Ace Attorney mafia when we were both town.

Pasch completely relenting, stating F-16 is "puking all over the page", and subsequently voting Bro because Muffin is voting him stings pretty hard and I'll happily see him lynched if you guys decide F-16 can't be a thing today(but I hope you go through with it, regardless.)

F-16 probably sees Pasch's weakness and that explains why he's jumping on the chance to vote him in 406. Can I get "Desperate Attempt to Counterwagon" for 500, Alex?

407 is pretty much rubbish, btw. For all its lovely walling, the entire thing is a strawman argument. Myko's stance being his 92 being too early to be effective and basically one big posture-fest(as far as I follow) and F-16's response is something akin to "What's wrong with developing early reads????" No. No. Hush.

Let's get on with the lynch, already.

[BROseidon]

I'm saying that it looks like what town does without being what town does, and without progressing the gamestate.

Stop twisting my words.

pedit: Kaze, didn't the Pasch wagon start before the F-16 wagon?

Which would make F-16 counter to Pasch.

And why the fuck are you trying to cut the day short?

[BROseidon]

Yup, Pasch had 3 votes before F-16 had one.

[Kazekirimaru]

The Pasch wagon lost steam. He's trying to rekindle its fire, so to speak. Don't waste your time arguing semantics with me.

Cut the day short? We found scum. We generally lynch scum when we find it.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Pretty sure both Pieguy and Bro are town because their argument sounds a lot like the argument Pie had with me in Ace Attorney mafia when we were both town.

Pasch completely relenting, stating F-16 is "puking all over the page", and subsequently voting Bro because Muffin is voting him stings pretty hard and I'll happily see him lynched if you guys decide F-16 can't be a thing today(but I hope you go through with it, regardless.)

F-16 probably sees Pasch's weakness and that explains why he's jumping on the chance to vote him in 406. Can I get "Desperate Attempt to Counterwagon" for 500, Alex?

407 is pretty much rubbish, btw. For all its lovely walling, the entire thing is a strawman argument. Myko's stance being his 92 being too early to be effective and basically one big posture-fest(as far as I follow) and F-16's response is something akin to "What's wrong with developing early reads????" No. No. Hush.

Let's get on with the lynch, already.

Respond to my post then. It wasn't a strawman. It addressed all of Myk's arguments. YOU are strawmanning me.

[BROseidon]

Day 1 ends in 11 days, 5 hours, 30 minutes

You never cut the day short with 11 days left.

Ever.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

I'm saying that it looks like what town does without being what town does, and without progressing the gamestate.

Stop twisting my words.

What the fuck do you even mean "it looks like what town does without being what town does?" How does backing off of a line of questioning look like what town does if town don't actually do it?

[BROseidon]

Also, why aren't you questioning why the Pasch wagon lost steam?

Three wagons built up pretty evenly, which can imply one of two things:

1) Highly disorganized townies not applying lots of pressure in any one spot.

2) Scum counterwagoning to divert pressure away from one of their own.

#2 feels more true to me, especially given that Pie put out bs reasons against me, and people called it "good reasoning" despite it being clearly based on a misrep of what I said.

Hey Pie, when "bs" stands for "bullshit" it's not capitalized because it's not a fucking proper now. Asshole.

[BROseidon]

I'm saying that it looks like what town does without being what town does, and without progressing the gamestate.

Stop twisting my words.

What the fuck do you even mean "it looks like what town does without being what town does?" How does backing off of a line of questioning look like what town does if town don't actually do it?

Holy shit, why isn't this obvious to you.

Scum try to imitate town play. Town poke and prod and ask questions to try to figure out who's scum. Scum therefore need to imitate that process, but they want to do it in such a way that it obfuscates who they are. One way to do that is to ask various questions that don't really lead anywhere. It makes scum look engaged with the game, but it doesn't ultimately help town.

Orc was threatening to bus me to hell in my first scum game because I was doing that too much. Thankfully he died first, so I got to carry him, but I digress...

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Holy shit, why isn't this obvious to you.

Scum try to imitate town play. Town poke and prod and ask questions to try to figure out who's scum. Scum therefore need to imitate that process, but they want to do it in such a way that it obfuscates who they are. One way to do that is to ask various questions that don't really lead anywhere. It makes scum look engaged with the game, but it doesn't ultimately help town.

Orc was threatening to bus me to hell in my first scum game because I was doing that too much. Thankfully he died first, so I got to carry him, but I digress...

That's not what I am taking issue with. ActionDan claimed that me dropping a line of questioning is scummy. But town also drops questioning as I explained in depth which makes it null. He is painting null things as scummy. Why do you find it town-motivated?

[BROseidon]

He's taking the scum-reading of the null event and pushing off that position. Seems fine to me.

[BROseidon]

Again, how is this different from me just not believing that Pie just lost track of his thoughts instead of his misrep->push being intentional?

He's also used your reaction to try to discern which reading to take. That demonstrates consistency.

[Kagami]

Day 1 ends in 11 days, 5 hours, 30 minutes

You never cut the day short with 11 days left.

Ever.

My feeling is the opposite. More time just means the actual town gets frustrated/disinterested. Power roles get revealed (often by non-PRs leaking their non-PRness). A crisp, clean lynch well before deadline is a very welcome thing.

[Plum]

It's true. I'm not pro letting the Day linger. We're already at 18 pages. No one needs a 50-page Day 1, especially not in a Mini.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

I don't see how you don't get it. If something is null, it can come from both town and scum. Why would it be a reason to push at all? His reading based on my reaction was bullshit as well. Why would town be "self-conscious" at all, much less self-conscious of non-existent errors?

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Plum, what do you think of BRO's interpretation of Dan's statements. I could see a scenario where Dan is town and BRO is scum buddying him.

[BROseidon]

...really?

Two reasons I like longer days:

1) Forces more content, which allows scum to fuckup more.

2) Gives me more time to backend process things. My subconscious thinking often points me in the right direction, but that takes some time to get rolling.

[Kazekirimaru]

Respond to my post then. It wasn't a strawman. It addressed all of Myk's arguments. YOU are strawmanning me.

What's there for me to respond to? I don't argue with scum.

Also, why aren't you questioning why the Pasch wagon lost steam?

Three wagons built up pretty evenly, which can imply one of two things:

1) Highly disorganized townies not applying lots of pressure in any one spot.

2) Scum counterwagoning to divert pressure away from one of their own.

#2 feels more true to me, especially given that Pie put out bs reasons against me, and people called it "good reasoning" despite it being clearly based on a misrep of what I said.

And, what, you think F-16 is the scum counterwagon?

...really?

Two reasons I like longer days:

1) Forces more content, which allows scum to fuckup more.

2) Gives me more time to backend process things. My subconscious thinking often points me in the right direction, but that takes some time to get rolling.

Guess what? Longer days gives town more time to fuck up, too. And when it's scum's #1 priority to mislead the town, this essentially gives scum more breathing room to do so. When you find scum, you lynch it. End of story.

[BROseidon]

lol falcon, your answers are kind of shit and you're either being kind of dense or not following my logic, let me lay it out for you:

It can come from both town or scum, but he chose one interpretation and ran with it. Then he followed up on it in a way to check that assumption, and came to the conclusion that his initial assumption was right. I'm not getting why you aren't following that sequence of positions; it's not like it's hard.

You're second point is actually worth responding to (grats on that ). However, he's likely working off the assumption that you'd look at his posts in some depth and try to figure out what he's gunning and, and try to figure out why town might interpret things a certain way. It's like my response to Muffin after he voted me; I looked back at what he was saying to try to gauge his trajectory. The fact that you didn't do the same and come to the same conclusion as him would set off alarm bells from a townDan, wouldn't it?

So yeah, can you give me more things that are worth my time? I'd appreciate it kthx.

[Plum]

Plum, what do you think of BRO's interpretation of Dan's statements. I could see a scenario where Dan is town and BRO is scum buddying him.

He . . . seems to be pointing out that it's perfectly conceivable that someone finds letting a line of questioning go like that scummy. Which is true. Right now I don't think that in this case it's a particularly good argument on ActionDan's part (for reasons that go beyond the actual instance he argues about). I

don't

think Dan's trajectory is particularly good. To be honest, you started this discussion by asking Bro what he thought of Dan. Tempo and timing don't suggest that Bro is taking in-the-moment advantage of the question to buddy up to Dan. His position here is reasonable - which is to say null on both scumminess and buddying for Bro here. I think you're reaching and blowing this specific series of interactions out of proportion, to be honest.

Don't want to get into a long theory discussion, but a long Day 1 is often not good for Town.

[BROseidon]

Kaze, I was thinking that scum were splitting votes on me/F-16, but F-16's shit answers are making me question that.

[Kazekirimaru]

Vote F-16 and find out.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

lol falcon, your answers are kind of shit and you're either being kind of dense or not following my logic, let me lay it out for you:

Nice discredit.

It can come from both town or scum, but he chose one interpretation and ran with it.

Then he followed up on it in a way to check that assumption, and came to the conclusion that his initial assumption was right. I'm not getting why you aren't following that sequence of positions; it's not like it's hard.

You're second point is actually worth responding to (grats on that ). However, he's likely working off the assumption that you'd look at his posts in some depth and try to figure out what he's gunning and, and try to figure out why town might interpret things a certain way. It's like my response to Muffin after he voted me; I looked back at what he was saying to try to gauge his trajectory. The fact that you didn't do the same and come to the same conclusion as him would set off alarm bells from a townDan, wouldn't it?

So yeah, can you give me more things that are worth my time? I'd appreciate it kthx.

That is dependent on the assumption that there is an ERROR in my statement where it isn't. Also, how does his "trajectory" on me make sense?

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Kaze, I was thinking that scum were splitting votes on me/F-16, but F-16's shit answers are making me question that.

HOW THE FUCK ARE MY RESPONSES SHIT? YOU ARE A FUCKING MORON. I EXPLAINED EVERYTHING OVER AND OVER AND YOU ARE STILL NOT GETTING IT.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

What's there for me to respond to? I don't argue with scum.

Because you strawmanned my argument, not me Myk's.