A uPick of Ice & Fire - Day 12 - #REKT?

[Tammy]

Good game scum. Thanks for running it Faraday.

I read Empire totally wrong, but now he doesn't get to yell at me anymore when I get paranoid. I just hate that the little twinges of things that bugged me, I ignored, mostly because some of the things he said and did just matched up with his town game and his claim that he doesn't have the balls to do some things as scum. He played the early game to what Tierce and I would expect from town quite well I think. Pless pointed out a couple things to me though that maybe I'll be able to catch if I'm up against him as scum again. I practically have their iso memorized though because I hated his jump on Thor (and should have gone after him for that instead of Tierce, I felt like one of theirs was bs but picked the wrong one), and past day three I was super paranoid of him. But every time I read his iso, I found things I liked. So good job on fooling me like there was no tomorrow.

I felt so guilty every time Nacho referenced my town case on him as reasons for why everyone should town read him though. His slot was actually confirmed scum to me after he put Kanye to L-1 after ooba's fake claim. And I was spamming faraday right after that about how good a job empire did early game.

I still don't understand why Nacho wanted me to come back for Kanye's hammer. I was swimming in paranoia at that point, and a good portion of that was that I couldn't understand how people weren't seeing kanye town-telling like crazy through ooba's push on him and then eventual fake claim.

I really like neighborhoods and I know that some people thought I used my role suboptimally, but I like being able to discuss my reads away from the thread sometimes and wanted to create a sort of hydra with someone I thought was town and could work with. I think that neighborhoods are great scumhunting tools as well, and the day one neighborhood I shared is what helped me keep my resolve that syryana was more than likely town throughout the game. There is a slight possibility that I would have backed down on that once he checked out and lurked if I didn't have that day to talk with him and maybe day three would have gone differently, and in a different game maybe would have helped town. I also credit the neighborhood I shared with MagnaofIllusion in NY146 as being why I realized he was scum. Also, the neighborhood in The Wire was good as well. We might have left a case on the wrong person, but still, we were able to get reads on people in the neighborhood that were helpful. I do think though that there's a point that people should be kinda open about what's in neighborhoods. In Wingate Mansion, I was super frustrated with the people in the other neighborhood because they were being really sketchy and not forthcoming about what was going on, and it turned out that 3/4 of the people there were scum. So yeah.

Benmage - It has nothing to do with the fact that you got your fake guilty wrong *this* time and that it's been a year or so since you got a fake guilty wrong, it's that you did it at all and then compounded it by your behavior. Your fake guilty was the third day in a row that the decision for who to lynch was taken away from town because either roles or shenanigans. Nacho's was his role; I'm not going to fault him for gladiating who he thought was guilty. It was his role; he can use it how he wants. Then the next day, ooba took the lynch away from the town by fake claiming a guilty. Ooba should never have fake claimed a guilty at all and he doesn't get a pass on his action, but there's a reason people aren't yelling at him and saying they'll never play with him again and they are with you, and that has to do with attitude. Ooba came out the next day with a complete mea culpa, and explained it as being a bit impulsive due to paranoia, and you could track where that was growing because you could see where he was coming from due to his continued and detailed analysis on the previous days. It doesn't make his fake claim right at all.

But you? You blamed it on town. You blamed it on Faraday. You blamed it on everyone else but yourself. No one else made you fake claim that guilty, which for the third day in a row took away town's ability to choose for itself. And noone else made you browbeat that fake guilty through even though some of the town knew you were fake claiming and tried to ignore it and scumhunt around it. And in the midst of you making a mistake which helped to cost town, you mocked other players and the mod. Yes, Tierce and I misread Empire. We were completely and utterly fooled by that slot. But, as Tierce pointed out, the day you called her anti-town and useless, she was voting scum while you were fakeclaiming on an innocent. There's a reason scum tried to kill Tierce three times, and it's not because "anti-town and useless."

You might say that nothing you say is personal in games, but damn Benmage if you don't veer that way. Your attitude is what kills it. And probably, most likely, your ego too because you just think your way is right too often. And you know it works sometimes, like in that lylo. That lylo day, you owned, I'm not going to take that away from you. You got Alfred lynched against most of the odds of the game and that was awesome.

And you know what that's great if you feel like you have an ego and are good at this game, but damn figure out a way to work with the people you think are town instead of mocking them. You can't win this game alone.

(although I'm going to just chuckle a bit because the person on day one, I tried to lynch you tried to tell me was town and that I needed to evolve past low hanging fruit to become a better player and that's the person you took out with your final shot. also, i'm stingy with my vote, especially in later days, and that shouldn't be a surprise to anyone who plays with me often...look at what i'm saying. also also you need to get over scumreading or mocking people who want to take their time in lylo to reread through things and be sure. I get it you probably have your mind made up, but some people are a bit more cautious and that's part of their personality, and they'd rather make an informed decision than rush into one, you need to recognize when it's a playstyle difference and an alignment difference.)

/rant

I should have listened to Syryana's suspicions on cephrir day one but listened to nacho instead. He was one of those people that I never had a clear read on. I called him town a bunch but I knew that scum was in my town reads I just couldn't figure out where. And I couldn't understand people town-reading Titus. The need to post the notes to prove she was reading read scummy to me as did zdenek's jump off of spyrex. His reasonings were complete trash and I hate that I let my resolve on that fade somewhat. One of my biggest weaknesses in mafia is thinking that stronger players/or my townreads have better reasons for me than their reads and letting it affect my own. Which is all right in some instances, but sometimes is detrimental. I'm just going to try to stop being so damn waffly!

[SpyreX]

Lynching thor was silly, and I hold to that.

[Cephrir]

I had to force seeing Titus' notes as better than I thought they were in places. I think she might be lucky no one but me actually went through them carefully.

[quadz08]

lynching thor was absolutely silly, IMO

As a note, Ooba's case on me was fucking spectacular. I read that thing and absolutely knew I was completely fucked. Well done to him.

[Titus]

LOL. I'm surprised you could read them after awhile. Towards the end they got sloppy. I wrote them legitimately before I understood which scum were replacements (before my own). Then again, read walls always look worse to scum mates than real people. Someone else even said based on my notes that TA and Titus were not likely on the same time. I can't remember who that was.

Thor lynch wasn't that bad IMO. Most of the roles didn't relate directly to labels. Even then, there was miller AND hated in the same game, which naturally doesn't seem plausible. If I was in the game at that time, I would have wanted Garruk or Thor dead (as town or scum).

[Titus]

Tammy, you were absolutely right in reading me and my motivations. I would have just straight up posted them but technical difficulties prevented me from doing that.

[Alfred Borden]

Abracadabra

Our hydra was kind of like a support group.
Neither of us were happy to be scum, though we did manage to enjoy the early game.
Sustaining a decent level of towniness through 11 days proved beyond my self-motivational powers.
I find that a lot of the time when I'm scum I'm pretty obvscum to a lot of the people in the game but I'm able to see where things are going well enough to make mislynches happen.
I was pretty scared I'd die after MC simply because my fakeclaim was purely for the purpose of surviving one more day and getting one more mislynch; it wasn't built to last.

Messiah flipping scum was terrifying and completely unexpected; I was not at all sure we were still going to win when that happened.
I had Nacho pegged for the traitor to such an extent that I didn't bother checking with Faraday whether Dragon Ridering him would reuse the QT Tierce and I used (confirming me as scum).

Benmage was one of our best assets this game. He was also a somewhat dangerous.
He found so many new low places to go that made it really hard to justify scumreading him.
I didn't think it was fair to mention communications with the mod; I guess it's not THAT different from hydra-discussion but bleh.

[Tierce]

I didn't think it was fair to mention communications with the mod; I guess it's not THAT different from hydra-discussion but bleh.

I agree with this.

[Tammy]

Tammy, you were absolutely right in reading me and my motivations. I would have just straight up posted them but technical difficulties prevented me from doing that.

Interestingly enough it had nothing to do with you taking notes, but really feeling like you needed to prove that you were reading. It was similar to Tierce in Abarat 2, where even though she was busy and legitimately v/la saying that she could produce her receipts to prove that she was actually busy and not able to post. It was then, before I replaced in as her teammate, that I read her as scum. People tend to give themselves away in tiny moments like that. You know you're lying. You know you're reading the thread for superficial stuff; you know you're not reading the thread. But even when you're actually doing stuff that's not lying, you want to prove yourself that you're not in that tiny little ineffectual thing.

I had a partner once post a bunch of notes though, so the idea of notes didn't mean much. Also, I think when we had the discussion about the posting of notes at my other site, some people claimed that they only took notes as scum, so that colored my view too.

But, mainly i was averse to your slot based on zdenek's actions day three and I really should have pushed that harder.

[kanyeknowsbest]

think im glad town lost after the stupid bullshit that was pulled, but im also mad that the the obvscum as hell scumteam won. i really wish that mc could have won on his own or that there was a 3rd party to take the win. oh well

[Shadoweh]

Did anyone read Titus's notes? I saw a picture of a notebook and went NOPE.

[kanyeknowsbest]

i skimmed them very briefly to see the kind of content in them and then yelled at everyone that titus was scum and no1 cared and ooba decided to do the stupidest fucking thing. thjats my story lol

[kanyeknowsbest]

hey nacho remember when you were gettin real down on me like ":whos your scum reads if its not these people who i know 100% are real fucking town but you think are scum" and then it turned out EVERY FUCKING ONE of them was scum?

[kanyeknowsbest]

and im the bad boy you fell for???????????????????????????????????????????????????

[kanyeknowsbest]

tellin me those things while gettin the reacharound from llamapire? for fucking shame. for fucking shame

[kanyeknowsbest]

Lynching thor was silly, and I hold to that.

agree w. this i wish we had lynched ne1 last minute but thor

[kanyeknowsbest]

also not sure how benmage somehow managed to be more awful than ooba

[Tammy]

Did anyone read Titus's notes? I saw a picture of a notebook and went NOPE.

I'm really self-absorbed so I skimmed her notes to see what she said about me. Dunno if that counts :/

[Cephrir]

Did anyone read Titus's notes? I saw a picture of a notebook and went NOPE.

I read a solid 70% of them before getting bored, made a stream of consciousness awful post, then never mentioned them again.

[Katsuki]

didnt read game did titus get a clear based on his role alone? Because I hope he didnt after I stated how that could easily be a scumrole

alas i got shot else titus was dead next day regardless.

[Cephrir]

Did anyone read Titus's notes? I saw a picture of a notebook and went NOPE.

I read a solid 70% of them before getting bored, made a stream of consciousness awful post, then never mentioned them again.

I also didn't do this until like 3 game days after she posted them or so and only because I knew there was no way I would not read them if I were town >.>

[Cephrir]

I had all this brilliant ATE/paranoid flip-out planned out when I thought Titus was gonna blow up, I wish I got to try using it

[Titus]

Cephrir, I don't flip out until votes come. I had partially but figured come and get me plus my notes would clear me. If I got votes on me, I would have indicated even stronger to bus me. When Shadoweh flipped, I should have died. Dunno why I didn't.

[Cephrir]

(I mean the mod troll, silly )

[Empire]

I was originally not going to post anything here because I usually feel I don't have anything to contribute in post game discussions but this post actually made me upset.

Tierce reads Empire wrong, Benmage lays into her because that is "horrid play".
Benmage fakes guilties, he is a god at Mafia and the fault is all Faraday's.

Yep~

I played a bad game... I never claimed to be playing a good game. My wrong reads ended up costing the game... But rest everything on my shoulders.. it'll help you vent.

Sorry but no, this doesn't work this way. You don't get to force the entire game on your shoulders and then go on to say "well I wasn't the only one who played badly." That makes you look like a coward who only takes responsibility for their actions when it is convenient (e.g., when everything goes right). Add me to the chorus of people who never want to play a game with you again.

Thanks for modding the game Faraday. I want to apologize to my scum team (and especially to Llamarble) for being unable to finish the game like I wanted to. Some very serious personal stuff that prevented me from doing so. You guys deserved way better from me.

I also want to give a shout out to the Messiah Complex hydra for especially playing a strong game. I believe at no point did we ever suspect you could be our traitor.