Mini 1533: No More Heroes - Abandoned

[Skullduggery]

Also, before I forget...

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

[Minions]

Wake flip and increased activity from some of the inactive slots means a reread and a reboot is in order; I appreciate other heads keeping up on things while I was off on my business trip.

First, I will say that my townreads on

PeregrineV

,

Skullduggery

, and

TheIrishPope

have only strengthened since recent posting; they have all been strong, active contributors since I've been gone and the rest of my heads pretty much agree. I won't bother to explain these reads again since they got a decently thorough explanation in 125 and our feelings haven't changed at all since then.

I have developed a very strong town read on

masky

ever since he's inhabited the slot, despite low post count and small contributions. The basis of this town read is pretty much completely coming from 181 , where masky turns on the person who is townreading him with the reasoning of "I think you've already figured out I am a townie and you're trying to get people against me". Now, it is rare for experienced players to turn on those scumreading them, so a newbie doing so makes up a strong townread on the slot.

I have a moderate townread on

Bicephalous Bob

for his posting. His push on aptil throughout all of his posts feels genuine (especially when there are almost certainly targets he could go for who already had support), and in particular I like his vote on TiP which he immediately retracts, found in 169 and 170 . In them, he brings up a decent meta reason to vote TiP, and then backs down because the vote doesn't "feel right". This is an odd move from scum that doesn't really serve any purpose but seems like a fairly believable town move.

I also have a moderate townread on

aptil

. A couple of his moves feel honest, like things scum watching their image would be sure to avoid (see: 150 for an example of this), his reaction to Bob is fairly convincing. He also has a very acute observation in 220 which pretty much sum up my thoughts on him completely, and is not the thing I would expect aptil to say about a partner he wasn't bussing.

I lean town on

Kagami

. I thought that her Minions-Wake theory from Wake's RVS vote on us was interesting and something she would be unlikely to come up with as scum (it doesn't strike me as a "reasons used to mislynch") type of reasoning. The Varsoon-Wake observation is a good one, and Varsoon's reaction of "he's obsessed with me, idk" is not exactly a convincing one. I also liked his reaction to Bob initially calling her wagon shit in 275 , in a similar way that I liked masky reaction to being called town, but mitigated due to Kagami being a bit more experienced.

I have small townreads on, but are mostly null on,

SMP

and

Saki

. SMP has been following his strategy as he promised he would, and defended his position when he could have decided to fake a couple reads in order to compromise with the town; his push on aptil also feels fairly genuine, and is not a bad push. I still have a townread on Saki based on cristovo play, but that isn't significant enough for a good read at this stage in the game.

I lean scum on

Varsoon

. I think that Kagami had a very good point when she pointed out the Varsoon-Wake connection, and i have a paranoid theory his questions wall in 145 were coordinated with Wake's Annihilator Beam to clog up the thread unnecessarily, especially keeping in mind that Varsoon once used clogging up the thread as a scum tactic. His pushes in the game so far seem to lack any sort of belief in the target being scum, such as his vote for Bob in 163 or his vote for Kagami in 200 . He's not my strongest scumread (which I will get to shortly and will talk about later), but he's a solid choice and probably the lynch for the day.

My strongest scumread in the game is currently

Mac

. There is a head familiar with both's meta whose advice to posting heads was essentially "if they post a lot and have plenty of conviction in things, town. If they prod dodge here and lurk while being active elsewhere, scum". Now, Antihero replaced out for perfectly reasonable reasons, but Mac is hard lurking while posting elsewhere and we have found that's a strong indicator for him in particular to be scum. We will be keeping an eye on this one as the days go on.

VOTE: Varsoon

To clear up a few things about how our hydra operates:

There are posting heads and non posting heads. Generally, when the main posting heads agree with something, we count it as a "unanimous" read; heads that are more invested in the game get more priority over others. The posting heads all believed Kagami was either scum, or had a null read on them.

Kagami, I wasn't a posting head before this game. If you saw my tag in a different game, it was likely a dummy head.

~Rufio

[Varsoon]

I guess this is the part where I claim scum and say that you guys need me alive more than dead, since you'll never catch my partner without me?

[Varsoon]

@Skull:

Spoiler:

[Kagami]

I hate that all your links are broken, minions -_-

[Skullduggery]

Re: Post 87
* Asks Varsoon about Antihero, policy lynches, and his Scum game
* Asks Skullduggery about Pope, Minions, and my Scum game
* Asks SMP about Skullduggery, Varsoon, Kagami, and his Town and Scum game
* Asks Minions about Skullduggery, Varsoon, SMP, and Aptil
* Asks Aptil about...nothing important
* Asks Pope about Cristovo, Varsoon, Pieguyn, and his Scum game
* Asks Kagami about Skullduggery, Varsoon, and her Scum game
* Asks Peregrine about his Town reads and his meta

Number of times he asks other players about Varsoon: 4
Number of times he asks other players about Skullduggery: 3
Number of times he asks other players about Kagami, Antihero, Pope, Minions, SMP, Aptil, Cristovo, and Pieguyn: 1

He also makes it a point to ask Varsoon, Skullduggery, SMP, Pope, and Kagami about what our Scum games look like. Why do you suppose he was so fixated on asking us how we play as Scum? And why the five of us specifically?

Does it feel to you like Varsoon's being subtly Townish?

What

does

"subtly Townish" mean, anyway? This seems like an attempt to plant seeds of doubt in Kagami's mind.

Skull may be Town, but I reckon she's also smart enough to be concealed. Knowing this I do wonder about the confidence of Varsoon and Peregrine, and I think it would be prudent to suspect both of them should she flip Scum in the future.

Wake, knowing full well that I will flip Town, implores the other players to look at Varsoon and Peregrine if I do flip Scum. If either of them are Scum, he's basically telling us to be suspicious of them for something that he knows won't happen.

In this situation, I'd incite the walling, participate in it, and try to kick up as much dust as possible.

I'd want an early lynch on Skullduggery (if Skull's slot is town), because I could probably feed a later mislynch on Minions (if minions slot is town). S

kull's got a strong, reliable town meta and scum-me would want that mislynched immediately unless I had some sort of way of recruiting Skull (neighborhood, cult, etc).

A kill on Skull is unlikely, since a protect/track/etc on town-skull is likely. I've been in this sort of a situation before (as scum):
C9++, where I tried to make the most amount of noise possible on D1. It backfired, but that wasn't entirely my fault. I think this tactic could work if there were other people walling hard as well.
Calvin & Hobbes Mafia, where I neighborhood'd Psyche, who soft-confirmed me as town, and avoided killing Skull because Skull was obv-town. I also tried to neighborize Skull but was busdriven and tracked to the other team's NK, which I then navigated my way out of.

I don't like policy lynches either. If I had to PL someone this game, it'd be one of SMP or Peregrine. I'd say Aptil, but the V/LA clears that.

Are you sure you wouldn't be a sweet and cheeky pro-Town helper who'd try to allay fear and suspicion while positing nice little morsels of pro-Town goodness?

Like this?

Yeah, we should focus much more on the game instead of the theory.

At the very least, your snark feels very town to me. :3

Can we focus on the players who have the most to gain out of taking a backseat to the Skull/Minions walling?

Also, can you guys stop walling? It kicks up so much dust that scum can hide in it and it's WIFOM-able to a degree that a wagon either way could easily be strung along by scum.
I'm pretty sure you're both town.

Pardon my musings. If you were Scum, you could always go after lynchbait Day 1 and then NK her. If you were Scum I don't really see you raring for her Day 1 lynch. I wonder if anyone else here has any thoughts on this, because it doesn't seem like something Scum-Varsoon would do. I mean, really. If she's got a strong, reliable Town-meta according to you, how does that jive with Scum-Varsoon trying to lynch her Day 1? Um, as for the issue of recruiting Skull, as of this very moment I don't think you need to discuss it any further.

Here we see Wake telling Varsoon what he should be doing if he was Scum. He dissuades theoretical Scum-Varsoon from killing me on Night 1 -- presumably so Scum can use their night-kill to recruit Wake instead. (That's how Spies/Traitors work, right?) The very last sentence ("As for the issue of recruiting Skull, as of this very moment I don't think you need to discuss it any further.") reinforces this idea. He knows two things: I'm not Scum and Varsoon-Scum should recruit him tonight.

Uh, I'd like some sort of explanation for why you'd try to policy lynch SMP or Peregrine over the multi-headed elephant in the room.

Redirecting Varsoon's attention to Minions again. If Varsoon and Minions are Scum buddies, why would he do that?

Kagami, you seemed satisfied with Wake's explanation in 156 of the question he asked in his first post. Since you're suspecting Minions now, is it safe to say that that's no longer true?

204 and 206 don't look like questions he'd ask a Scum buddy. Town points for Kagami.

212 seems like an honest attempt to figure out Pope's motivations. He primarily asks Pope about (surprise, surprise) Varsoon, Skullduggery, and Minions. Either he thinks/knows we're all Town and he's just trying to stir the pot or one of us is Scum and he trusts that person to survive any suspicion that is placed upon them.

-----------

So, conclusions! Wake asking so many people about their Scum games could indicate that he doesn't know who the main Scum team is, but I'm more inclined to believe that he was just trying to throw us off and it's the other way around -- the main Scum team doesn't know who the Spy is, bu the knows who they are. (Disclaimer: I've never played a game with a Spy/Traitor in it before, so I'll defer to the more experienced players on this one.)

I don't think Wake would leave so many connections to both of his Mafia partners, so I imagine that there is one Scum player in {Varsoon, Minions, Kagami} while the other Scum player is probably somewhere in {Mac, Bob, Aptil, Masky, Saki} -- players that he had very little interaction with. Kagami's Wake/Varsoon/Minions theory does make a degree of sense, but I don't think I buy it. Of the three main suspects, Kagami and Minions both have Town points in their favor. I'm struggling to think of a good reason not to lynch Varsoon, so...

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Varsoon

This seems like the best choice for now.

[Skullduggery]

@Skull:

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

[Varsoon]

Skull, didn't you read? I am scum! But you need my help, right?

Spoiler:

[Varsoon]

I was actually pretty sure you were our spy, Skull. Please review our image exchange.

[Minions]

In case it isn't clear, Kagami and Skullduggery are made pretty much confirmed town due to Varsoon interactions ("Are you the Wolf Among Us?" makes it pretty clear Varsoon was genuinely hunting for the traitor thus Skull is not a buddy), and the initial push by Kagami to nail Varsoon is most certainly not buddy interactions unless Kagami has wonderful perception as scum and the fullest confidence town would pick up on the interactions (which is enough to bring her into the Peregrine/Skull/TiP group).

I also don't see another player who Wake's interactions point so definitively to, which suggest a second buddy who wasn't around at all (Antihero/Mac), lending credence to the Mac scum theory from earlier.

~Rufio

[Bicephalous Bob]

WHAT IS GOING ON

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Varsoon

[SMP]

Did Varsoon just claim scum at L-4? That's confusing to say the least.

[Kagami]

Seems like the opposite of confusing to me.

[TheIrishPope]

ok yeah minions why did you call Pere and active contrivutor

[Kagami]

Skull: Please save me the trouble of rereading the walls. Why do you think Varsoon thought you were the spy? Were you interacting in a way with anyone other than minions that would give the impression that you

knew

they were scum?

[Kagami]

Ok, too curious to be so lazy. First impression so far is TiP, unbelievable though that may be...

[Saki]

hi and hi I'm having site issues but hi

VOTE: Varsoon

die varsoon

[Skullduggery]

Skull, didn't you read? I am scum! But you need my help, right?

...I'm honestly not sure how to respond to this. Need your help with what?

If you're Scum, why are you saying this? If you're Town, why are you saying this? Your mind is a dark and scary place, Varsoon.

I was actually pretty sure you were our spy, Skull. Please review our image exchange.

("Are you the Wolf Among Us?" makes it pretty clear Varsoon was genuinely hunting for the traitor thus Skull is not a buddy)

Ooooooooooh.

Okay, yeah, that went right over my head. I had no idea there was a Spy in the game until Wake flipped, so it didn't occur to me that Scum would be looking for one until the mod-kill happened. I was just posting silly pictures for the sake of posting silly pictures.

I also don't see another player who Wake's interactions point so definitively to, which suggest a second buddy who wasn't around at all (Antihero/Mac), lending credence to the Mac scum theory from earlier.

Makes sense. If I live to see tomorrow, Mac will be a top priority on Day 2.

Why do you think Varsoon thought you were the spy?

I didn't at the time. See above.

Were you interacting in a way with anyone other than minions that would give the impression that you

knew

they were scum?

Can you rephrase this? I'm not sure what you're asking.

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

[Kagami]

Varsoon believed you were the spy from around post 200 at latest, at which point he decided to set up a means of communicating with you. Something you said before that made him think you knew who the scumteam was. I don't think you were especially suspicious of varsoon, so the scumbuddy is in your posts.

[Kagami]

actually, before 162.

[Kagami]

bah, nvm. It was 157. Things are never so simple :<

[PeregrineV]

Never one to look a gift horse and his rider in the mouth.

Or whatever.

Vote: Varsoon

[Varsoon]

You idiots! If you lynch me, you won't be any closer to finding my partner!
If I die, you get nothing. Keep me around and you can ALWAYS kill me. I'll even hammer myself after you find my ally.
But kill me and you never will.

[Varsoon]

Look at it this way:
I won't be committing any night kills.
There's two scum left (me and partner).
I'm useless to you dead.

Spend today finding my partner instead, you weaklings.
Or lynch me and admit your weakness, I guess.
Your choice.
RISE TO THE CHALLENGE OR GIVE UP LIKE SISSIES
WHY WOULDN'T YOU WANT VARSOON IN YOUR GAME?
C'MOOOON!

[Varsoon]

Really though, I think it's anti-town to lynch a confirmed scum when there's another scum out there.
Furthermore, I really want to stay in this game with you guys.
Killing me now is anti-fun and anti-town.