Mini 1537: ATTACK ON TITAN (Game Over!)


Forum rules
User avatar
Kazekirimaru
Kazekirimaru
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Kazekirimaru
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 4037
Joined: June 27, 2013
Location: GMT-4

Post Post #1700 (ISO) » Wed Jan 22, 2014 6:01 am

Post by Kazekirimaru »

So,
In post 1585, Rancid Broderick Drake wrote:Armin Arlert, Weak Vengeful Neighbor
I don't particularly see why Armin would be Vengeful flavourwise.
In post 1665, Tammy wrote:Mikasa Ackerman. Human bodyguard neighbor.

Told you my lot in life was to die this game. Suck it.
This, however, makes sense 100%. Tammy doesn't know the flavour, so it's either a really good fakeclaim or real stuff. Considering her play, I'm leaning the latter. Leaving this slot alone.
In post 1668, pieguyn wrote:Jean Kirstein, human vanilla

kthx is the last one left right
This is the only human vanilla claim we've had, right?

---

So, kthx needs to claim, then we can continue with the Bert lynch. Tomorrow's people of interest should be within Mastin, NatiMuffin, and Pasch depending on Bert's flip.
User avatar
Bert
Bert
Darmok and Jalad at Tanagra
User avatar
User avatar
Bert
Darmok and Jalad at Tanagra
Darmok and Jalad at Tanagra
Posts: 10720
Joined: April 23, 2012

Post Post #1701 (ISO) » Wed Jan 22, 2014 6:02 am

Post by Bert »

In post 1700, Kazekirimaru wrote:Tomorrow's people of interest should be within Mastin, NatiMuffin, and
Pasch depending on Bert's flip.
Thank you for considering that I might be town (however small those percentages are in your big brain!).

:D
User avatar
Rancid Broderick Drake
Rancid Broderick Drake
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Rancid Broderick Drake
Goon
Goon
Posts: 937
Joined: January 11, 2014

Post Post #1702 (ISO) » Wed Jan 22, 2014 6:04 am

Post by Rancid Broderick Drake »

We not be lynching me swabbie! Bert be a good pirate. Sorta.
User avatar
Bert
Bert
Darmok and Jalad at Tanagra
User avatar
User avatar
Bert
Darmok and Jalad at Tanagra
Darmok and Jalad at Tanagra
Posts: 10720
Joined: April 23, 2012

Post Post #1703 (ISO) » Wed Jan 22, 2014 6:05 am

Post by Bert »

Harrharr ye be a ruckas scurvy pirate!
User avatar
pitoli
pitoli
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
pitoli
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2115
Joined: October 15, 2011

Post Post #1704 (ISO) » Wed Jan 22, 2014 7:30 am

Post by pitoli »

VOTECOUNT 2.6


Kazekirimaru (2):
pieguyn, Paschendale
Tammy (1):
: BROseidon
Bert (4):
Kazekirimaru, kthxbye, Kagami, Bert
Mastin2 (1):
Rancid Broderick Drake
BROseidon (1):
Tammy

Not Voting (2)
: mastin2, Brian Skies

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.


Day 2 ends in (expired on 2014-02-01 00:00:00)


Mod Comments:
VC remains unchanged. kthxbye has been prodded.
User avatar
Paschendale
Paschendale
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Paschendale
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2782
Joined: August 29, 2010
Location: The Empire State

Post Post #1705 (ISO) » Wed Jan 22, 2014 7:58 am

Post by Paschendale »

In post 1699, Kagami wrote:Pasch, have you asked pitoli if you would receive notification in the event you were roleblocked?
All I know is that nothing happened. I wasn't told why.
User avatar
Bert
Bert
Darmok and Jalad at Tanagra
User avatar
User avatar
Bert
Darmok and Jalad at Tanagra
Darmok and Jalad at Tanagra
Posts: 10720
Joined: April 23, 2012

Post Post #1706 (ISO) » Wed Jan 22, 2014 8:08 am

Post by Bert »

In post 1700, Kazekirimaru wrote:This, however, makes sense 100%. Tammy doesn't know the flavour, so it's either a really good fakeclaim or real stuff. Considering her play, I'm leaning the latter. Leaving this slot alone.
I'm wary about looking at flavor and gauging how likely roles are after what happened in my past game - FakeGod's Mini 1523 - where the speculation backfired. I worry the same for this game.
User avatar
Kagami
Kagami
Jack of All Trades
User avatar
User avatar
Kagami
Jack of All Trades
Jack of All Trades
Posts: 7065
Joined: November 5, 2013

Post Post #1707 (ISO) » Wed Jan 22, 2014 8:52 am

Post by Kagami »

In post 1705, Paschendale wrote:
In post 1699, Kagami wrote:Pasch, have you asked pitoli if you would receive notification in the event you were roleblocked?
All I know is that nothing happened. I wasn't told why.
It's typically the case (to my limited knowledge) that when actions like this fail due to a roleblock, you are PMed that you were blocked. Unfortunately, Pitoli appears to have only modded one prior game and the roleblocker in it was killed night one having blocked someone without an action, so there's no mod-meta to back it up.

I'm surprised you didn't directly ask her what happened given that you should be very curious why it didn't go through.
User avatar
Kazekirimaru
Kazekirimaru
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Kazekirimaru
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 4037
Joined: June 27, 2013
Location: GMT-4

Post Post #1708 (ISO) » Wed Jan 22, 2014 9:46 am

Post by Kazekirimaru »

In post 1706, Bert wrote:
In post 1700, Kazekirimaru wrote:This, however, makes sense 100%. Tammy doesn't know the flavour, so it's either a really good fakeclaim or real stuff. Considering her play, I'm leaning the latter. Leaving this slot alone.
I'm wary about looking at flavor and gauging how likely roles are after what happened in my past game - FakeGod's Mini 1523 - where the speculation backfired. I worry the same for this game.
The advertisement said that flavour is indicative of roles(but not alignment).
User avatar
Kazekirimaru
Kazekirimaru
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Kazekirimaru
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 4037
Joined: June 27, 2013
Location: GMT-4

Post Post #1709 (ISO) » Wed Jan 22, 2014 9:47 am

Post by Kazekirimaru »

In post 1707, Kagami wrote:
It's typically the case (to my limited knowledge) that when actions like this fail due to a roleblock, you are PMed that you were blocked. Unfortunately, Pitoli appears to have only modded one prior game and the roleblocker in it was killed night one having blocked someone without an action, so there's no mod-meta to back it up.

I'm surprised you didn't directly ask her what happened given that you should be very curious why it didn't go through.
Pitoli, if one is roleblocked, would they be notified of the failure's reason, notified of the failure but not the reason, or not notified at all?
User avatar
Kagami
Kagami
Jack of All Trades
User avatar
User avatar
Kagami
Jack of All Trades
Jack of All Trades
Posts: 7065
Joined: November 5, 2013

Post Post #1710 (ISO) » Wed Jan 22, 2014 9:49 am

Post by Kagami »

Pasch: Do you have a QT already, or were you to receive a QT link with your first invite?

p-edit: already asked this essentially. I don't think pitoli wants to answer publicly, but she might be willing to answer privately if pasch asks.
User avatar
Kagami
Kagami
Jack of All Trades
User avatar
User avatar
Kagami
Jack of All Trades
Jack of All Trades
Posts: 7065
Joined: November 5, 2013

Post Post #1711 (ISO) » Wed Jan 22, 2014 10:26 am

Post by Kagami »

Actually pasch, since we've all fully claimed, could you describe your role as thoroughly as possible (without directly quoting your role pm), together with any other information that would help us determine that you're telling the truth?
User avatar
Paschendale
Paschendale
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Paschendale
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2782
Joined: August 29, 2010
Location: The Empire State

Post Post #1712 (ISO) » Wed Jan 22, 2014 10:37 am

Post by Paschendale »

In post 1707, Kagami wrote:
In post 1705, Paschendale wrote:
In post 1699, Kagami wrote:Pasch, have you asked pitoli if you would receive notification in the event you were roleblocked?
All I know is that nothing happened. I wasn't told why.
It's typically the case (to my limited knowledge) that when actions like this fail due to a roleblock, you are PMed that you were blocked. Unfortunately, Pitoli appears to have only modded one prior game and the roleblocker in it was killed night one having blocked someone without an action, so there's no mod-meta to back it up.

I'm surprised you didn't directly ask her what happened given that you should be very curious why it didn't go through.
In my experience, there is never information as to why a night action failed. So, I didn't find it fishy that I wasn't told. That's normal as far as I know. Like, a cop investigation that failed would just get back "no result", regardless of whether the cop was roleblocked, the cop or target was jailed, the target was immune or was a commuter, or some other way I'm not thinking of at this moment.

It seems like Pitoli is acting more to what I'm used to than what you are.
In post 1710, Kagami wrote:Pasch: Do you have a QT already, or were you to receive a QT link with your first invite?

p-edit: already asked this essentially. I don't think pitoli wants to answer publicly, but she might be willing to answer privately if pasch asks.
I did ask privately since my last post. The answer was no.
In post 1711, Kagami wrote:Actually pasch, since we've all fully claimed, could you describe your role as thoroughly as possible (without directly quoting your role pm), together with any other information that would help us determine that you're telling the truth?
I'm Marco Bodt. I don't have much flavor, but it contains justifications for having both the 3-D gear (piloting skills) and my neighborizing ability (friendly demeanor). My PM didn't come with a QT, so I assume it would have been created after my ability resolved. The ability is called "Friendly Comrade". Also, despite looking kinda Japanese, this guy has a lot of freckles.
User avatar
pitoli
pitoli
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
pitoli
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2115
Joined: October 15, 2011

Post Post #1713 (ISO) » Wed Jan 22, 2014 10:55 am

Post by pitoli »

In post 1709, Kazekirimaru wrote:
In post 1707, Kagami wrote:
It's typically the case (to my limited knowledge) that when actions like this fail due to a roleblock, you are PMed that you were blocked. Unfortunately, Pitoli appears to have only modded one prior game and the roleblocker in it was killed night one having blocked someone without an action, so there's no mod-meta to back it up.

I'm surprised you didn't directly ask her what happened given that you should be very curious why it didn't go through.
Pitoli, if one is roleblocked, would they be notified of the failure's reason, notified of the failure but not the reason, or not notified at all?
Please refer to the MS wiki for site conventions on role actions.
Last edited by pitoli on Wed Jan 22, 2014 9:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Kagami
Kagami
Jack of All Trades
User avatar
User avatar
Kagami
Jack of All Trades
Jack of All Trades
Posts: 7065
Joined: November 5, 2013

Post Post #1714 (ISO) » Wed Jan 22, 2014 10:58 am

Post by Kagami »

Ok, I'm maybe misinterpreting something important, when you said "I wasn't informed of anything," did you mean that you didn't receive a PM at all, or that you weren't told why you failed?
User avatar
Paschendale
Paschendale
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Paschendale
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2782
Joined: August 29, 2010
Location: The Empire State

Post Post #1715 (ISO) » Wed Jan 22, 2014 11:29 am

Post by Paschendale »

I didn't get a PM at all. As I said, I asked more since this discussion began, and have received no other information.
User avatar
Bert
Bert
Darmok and Jalad at Tanagra
User avatar
User avatar
Bert
Darmok and Jalad at Tanagra
Darmok and Jalad at Tanagra
Posts: 10720
Joined: April 23, 2012

Post Post #1716 (ISO) » Wed Jan 22, 2014 11:30 am

Post by Bert »

Why would the mod tell you when you're blocked? In my past game Mini 1523 VisCon, I had no idea my roleblocks weren't working at all.
pieguyn
pieguyn
Survivor
pieguyn
Survivor
Survivor
Posts: 10493
Joined: August 23, 2013

Post Post #1717 (ISO) » Wed Jan 22, 2014 11:34 am

Post by pieguyn »

In post 1700, Kazekirimaru wrote:I don't particularly see why Armin would be Vengeful flavourwise.
I can see it, but just to make sure
@muffinati:
what's the flavor for your ability?
User avatar
Tammy
Tammy
Survivor
User avatar
User avatar
Tammy
Survivor
Survivor
Posts: 15361
Joined: January 13, 2012

Post Post #1718 (ISO) » Wed Jan 22, 2014 12:20 pm

Post by Tammy »

Holy crap people, you are not informed if you're roleblocked in almost all instances.
User avatar
Kagami
Kagami
Jack of All Trades
User avatar
User avatar
Kagami
Jack of All Trades
Jack of All Trades
Posts: 7065
Joined: November 5, 2013

Post Post #1719 (ISO) » Wed Jan 22, 2014 12:43 pm

Post by Kagami »

In post 1718, Tammy wrote:Holy crap people, you are not informed if you're roleblocked in almost all instances.
Firstly, no. If you are a role that receives a response (like, here's your neighborhood QT, you can start talking tomorrow night), you get a PM saying you failed. If you didn't, it would be unclear whether or not the mod simply forgot to inform you of your results, which would be bad for several reasons.

If neighborizing doesn't receive a response, then 1342 becomes very suspicious. Why wouldn't he think the neighborization went through?
User avatar
Tammy
Tammy
Survivor
User avatar
User avatar
Tammy
Survivor
Survivor
Posts: 15361
Joined: January 13, 2012

Post Post #1720 (ISO) » Wed Jan 22, 2014 1:14 pm

Post by Tammy »

Yes, but you do not get a message saying you were roleblocked.
User avatar
Kagami
Kagami
Jack of All Trades
User avatar
User avatar
Kagami
Jack of All Trades
Jack of All Trades
Posts: 7065
Joined: November 5, 2013

Post Post #1721 (ISO) » Wed Jan 22, 2014 1:52 pm

Post by Kagami »

In post 1713, pitoli wrote: Please refer to the MS wiki for site conventions on role actions.
Wiki - Roleblocker wrote: Players are not told that they are blocked unless it cannot be helped. For instance, a Cop who is blocked by a Roleblocker has to be told something for their investigation result. Normally the Cop is given a message like "No Result". (It is terrible form to simply not give the Cop any result at all and assume that the Cop understands that they were blocked - the Cop may instead question if the moderator forgot about their investigation.)
If the neighborizer would have been notified of a success, he has to be notified of a failure. If he wasn't notified of a success, he wouldn't have known it didn't go through without asking bert about it.

I'm sure many of you have seen this role, and usually what happens is the claimed neighborizer begins the day by asking his target if he got neighborized/monkizer/masonized. Pasch didn't.

I really don't think pasch got blocked anyway, so that discussion is ultimately pointless.

Bert, I don't suppose you got a PM inviting you to the neighborhood, but you just never checked it?
User avatar
BROseidon
BROseidon
Expert Marxman
User avatar
User avatar
BROseidon
Expert Marxman
Expert Marxman
Posts: 8242
Joined: April 18, 2013

Post Post #1722 (ISO) » Wed Jan 22, 2014 2:50 pm

Post by BROseidon »

@Tammy

Spoiler: Oratio in L. Catilinam
ORATIO IN L. CATILINAM PRIMA

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33
[1] I. Quo usque tandem abutere, Catilina, patientia nostra? quam diu etiam furor iste tuus nos eludet? quem ad finem sese effrenata iactabit audacia? Nihilne te nocturnum praesidium Palati, nihil urbis vigiliae, nihil timor populi, nihil concursus bonorum omnium, nihil hic munitissimus habendi senatus locus, nihil horum ora voltusque moverunt? Patere tua consilia non sentis, constrictam iam horum omnium scientia teneri coniurationem tuam non vides? Quid proxima, quid superiore nocte egeris, ubi fueris, quos convocaveris, quid consilii ceperis, quem nostrum ignorare arbitraris? [2] O tempora, o mores! Senatus haec intellegit. Consul videt; hic tamen vivit. Vivit? immo vero etiam in senatum venit, fit publici consilii particeps, notat et designat oculis ad caedem unum quemque nostrum. Nos autem fortes viri satis facere rei publicae videmur, si istius furorem ac tela vitemus. Ad mortem te, Catilina, duci iussu consulis iam pridem oportebat, in te conferri pestem, quam tu in nos [omnes iam diu] machinaris.

[3] An vero vir amplissumus, P. Scipio, pontifex maximus, Ti. Gracchum mediocriter labefactantem statum rei publicae privatus interfecit; Catilinam orbem terrae caede atque incendiis vastare cupientem nos consules perferemus? Nam illa nimis antiqua praetereo, quod C. Servilius Ahala Sp. Maelium novis rebus studentem manu sua occidit. Fuit, fuit ista quondam in hac re publica virtus, ut viri fortes acrioribus suppliciis civem perniciosum quam acerbissimum hostem coercerent. Habemus senatus consultum in te, Catilina, vehemens et grave, non deest rei publicae consilium neque auctoritas huius ordinis; nos, nos, dico aperte, consules desumus.

[4] II. Decrevit quondam senatus, ut L. Opimius consul videret, ne quid res publica detrimenti caperet; nox nulla intercessit; interfectus est propter quasdam seditionum suspiciones C. Gracchus, clarissimo patre, avo, maioribus, occisus est cum liberis M. Fulvius consularis. Simili senatus consulto C. Mario et L. Valerio consulibus est permissa res publica; num unum diem postea L. Saturninum tribunum pl. et C. Servilium praetorem mors ac rei publicae poena remorata est? At [vero] nos vicesimum iam diem patimur hebescere aciem horum auctoritatis. Habemus enim huiusce modi senatus consultum, verum inclusum in tabulis tamquam in vagina reconditum, quo ex senatus consulto confestim te interfectum esse, Catilina, convenit. Vivis, et vivis non ad deponendam, sed ad confirmandam audaciam. Cupio, patres conscripti, me esse clementem, cupio in tantis rei publicae periculis me non dissolutum videri, sed iam me ipse inertiae nequitiaeque condemno.

[5] Castra sunt in Italia contra populum Romanum in Etruriae faucibus conlocata, crescit in dies singulos hostium numerus; eorum autem castrorum imperatorem ducemque hostium intra moenia atque adeo in senatu videtis intestinam aliquam cotidie perniciem rei publicae molientem. Si te iam, Catilina, comprehendi, si interfici iussero, credo, erit verendum mihi, ne non potius hoc omnes boni serius a me quam quisquam crudelius factum esse dicat. Verum ego hoc, quod iam pridem factum esse oportuit, certa de causa nondum adducor ut faciam. Tum denique interficiere, cum iam nemo tam inprobus, tam perditus, tam tui similis inveniri poterit, qui id non iure factum esse fateatur. [6] Quamdiu quisquam erit, qui te defendere audeat, vives, et vives ita, ut [nunc] vivis, multis meis et firmis praesidiis obsessus, ne commovere te contra rem publicam possis. Multorum te etiam oculi et aures non sentientem, sicut adhuc fecerunt, speculabuntur atque custodient.

III. Etenim quid est, Catilina, quod iam amplius expectes, si neque nox tenebris obscurare coetus nefarios nec privata domus parietibus continere voces coniurationis tuae potest, si illustrantur, si erumpunt omnia? Muta iam istam mentem, mihi crede, obliviscere caedis atque incendiorum. Teneris undique; luce sunt clariora nobis tua consilia omnia; quae iam mecum licet recognoscas.

[7] Meministine me ante diem XII Kalendas Novembris dicere in senatu fore in armis certo die, qui dies futurus esset ante diem VI Kal. Novembris, C. Manlium, audaciae satellitem atque administrum tuae? Num me fefellit, Catilina, non modo res tanta, tam atrox tamque incredibilis, verum, id quod multo magis est admirandum, dies? Dixi ego idem in senatu caedem te optumatium contulisse in ante diem V Kalendas Novembris, tum cum multi principes civitatis Roma non tam sui conservandi quam tuorum consiliorum reprimendorum causa profugerunt. Num infitiari potes te illo ipso die meis praesidiis, mea diligentia circumclusum commovere te contra rem publicam non potuisse, cum tu discessu ceterorum nostra tamen, qui remansissemus, caede te contentum esse dicebas?

[8] Quid? cum te Praeneste Kalendis ipsis Novembribus occupaturum nocturno impetu esse confideres, sensistin illam coloniam meo iussu meis praesidiis, custodiis, vigiliis esse munitam? Nihil agis, nihil moliris, nihil cogitas, quod non ego non modo audiam, sed etiam videam planeque sentiam. IV. Recognosce tandem mecum noctem illam superiorem; iam intelleges multo me vigilare acrius ad salutem quam te ad perniciem rei publicae. Dico te priore nocte venisse inter falcarios--non agam obscure--in M. Laecae domum; convenisse eodem complures eiusdem amentiae scelerisque socios. Num negare audes? quid taces? Convincam, si negas. Video enim esse hic in senatu quosdam, qui tecum una fuerunt.

[9] O di inmortales! ubinam gentium sumus? in qua urbe vivimus? quam rem publicam habemus? Hic, hic sunt in nostro numero, patres conscripti, in hoc orbis terrae sanctissimo gravissimoque consilio, qui de nostro omnium interitu, qui de huius urbis atque adeo de orbis terrarum exitio cogitent! Hos ego video consul et de re publica sententiam rogo et, quos ferro trucidari oportebat, eos nondum voce volnero!

Fuisti igitur apud Laecam illa nocte, Catilina, distribuisti partes Italiae, statuisti, quo quemque proficisci placeret, delegisti, quos Romae relinqueres, quos tecum educeres, discripsisti urbis partes ad incendia, confirmasti te ipsum iam esse exiturum, dixisti paulum tibi esse etiam nunc morae, quod ego viverem. Reperti sunt duo equites Romani, qui te ista cura liberarent et sese illa ipsa nocte paulo ante lucem me in meo lectulo interfecturos [esse] pollicerentur. [10] Haec ego omnia vixdum etiam coetu vestro dimisso comperi; domum meam maioribus praesidiis munivi atque firmavi, exclusi eos, quos tu ad me salutatum mane miseras, cum illi ipsi venissent, quos ego iam multis ac summis viris ad me id temporis venturos esse praedixeram.

V. Quae cum ita sint, Catilina, perge, quo coepisti, egredere aliquando ex urbe; patent portae; proficiscere. Nimium diu te imperatorem tua illa Manliana castra desiderant. Educ tecum etiam omnes tuos, si minus, quam plurimos; purga urbem. Magno me metu liberabis, dum modo inter me atque te murus intersit. Nobiscum versari iam diutius non potes; non feram, non patiar, non sinam. [11] Magna dis inmortalibus habenda est atque huic ipsi Iovi Statori, antiquissimo custodi huius urbis, gratia, quod hanc tam taetram, tam horribilem tamque infestam rei publicae pestem totiens iam effugimus.

Non est saepius in uno homine summa salus periclitanda rei publicae. Quamdiu mihi consuli designato, Catilina, insidiatus es, non publico me praesidio, sed privata diligentia defendi. Cum proximis comitiis consularibus me consulem in campo et competitores tuos interficere voluisti, compressi conatus tuos nefarios amicorum praesidio et copiis nullo tumultu publice concitato; denique, quotienscumque me petisti, per me tibi obstiti, quamquam videbam perniciem meam cum magna calamitate rei publicae esse coniunctam.

[12] Nunc iam aperte rem publicam universam petis, templa deorum inmortalium, tecta urbis, vitam omnium civium, Italiam [denique] totam ad exitium et vastitatem vocas. Quare, quoniam id, quod est primum, et quod huius imperii disciplinaeque maiorum proprium est, facere nondum audeo, faciam id, quod est ad severitatem lenius et ad communem salutem utilius. Nam si te interfici iussero, residebit in re publica reliqua coniuratorum manus; sin tu, quod te iam dudum hortor, exieris, exhaurietur ex urbe tuorum comitum magna et perniciosa sentina rei publicae. [13] Quid est, Catilina? num dubitas id me imperante facere, quod iam tua sponte faciebas? Exire ex urbe iubet consul hostem. Interrogas me, num in exilium; non iubeo, sed, si me consulis, suadeo.

VI. Quid est enim, Catilina, quod te iam in hac urbe delectare possit? in qua nemo est extra istam coniurationem perditorum hominum, qui te non metuat, nemo, qui non oderit.

Quae nota domesticae turpitudinis non inusta vitae tuae est? quod privatarum rerum dedecus non haeret in fama? quae lubido ab oculis, quod facinus a manibus umquam tuis, quod flagitium a toto corpore afuit? cui tu adulescentulo, quem corruptelarum inlecebris inretisses, non aut ad audaciam ferrum aut ad lubidinem facem praetulisti? [14] Quid vero? nuper cum morte superioris uxoris novis nuptiis domum vacuefecisses, nonne etiam alio incredibili scelere hoc scelus cumulasti? quod ego praetermitto et facile patior sileri, ne in hac civitate tanti facinoris inmanitas aut extitisse aut non vindicata esse videatur. Praetermitto ruinas fortunarum tuarum, quas omnis inpendere tibi proxumis Idibus senties; ad illa venio, quae non ad privatam ignominiam vitiorum tuorum, non ad domesticam tuam difficultatem ac turpitudinem sed ad summam rem publicam atque ad omnium nostrum vitam salutemque pertinent. [15] Potestne tibi haec lux, Catilina, aut huius caeli spiritus esse iucundus, cum scias esse horum neminem, qui nesciat te pridie Kalendas Ianuarias Lepido et Tullo consulibus stetisse in comitio cum telo, manum consulum et principum civitatis interficiendorum causa paravisse, sceleri ac furori tuo non mentem aliquam aut timorem tuum sed fortunam populi Romani obstitisse?

Ac iam illa omitto--neque enim sunt aut obscura aut non multa commissa postea--quotiens tu me designatum, quotiens consulem interficere conatus es! quot ego tuas petitiones ita coniectas, ut vitari posse non viderentur, parva quadam declinatione et, ut aiunt, corpore effugi! nihil [agis, nihil] adsequeris [, nihil moliris] neque tamen conari ac velle desistis. [16] Quotiens tibi iam extorta est ista sica de manibus, quotiens [vero] excidit casu aliquo et elapsa est! [tamen ea carere diutius non potes] quae quidem quibus abs te initiata sacris ac devota sit, nescio, quod eam necesse putas esse in consulis corpore defigere.

VII. Nunc vero quae tua est ista vita? Sic enim iam tecum loquar, non ut odio permotus esse videar, quo debeo, sed ut misericordia, quae tibi nulla debetur. Venisti paulo ante in senatum. Quis te ex hac tanta frequentia totque tuis amicis ac necessariis salutavit? Si hoc post hominum memoriam contigit nemini, vocis expectas contumeliam, cum sis gravissimo iudicio taciturnitatis oppressus? Quid, quod adventu tuo ista subsellia vacuefacta sunt, quod omnes consulares, qui tibi persaepe ad caedem constituti fuerunt, simul atque adsedisti, partem istam subselliorum nudam atque inanem reliquerunt, quo tandem animo [hoc] tibi ferundum putas?

[17] Servi mehercule mei si me isto pacto metuerent, ut te metuunt omnes cives tui, domum meam relinquendam putarem; tu tibi urbem non arbitraris? et, si me meis civibus iniuria suspectum tam graviter atque offensum viderem, carere me aspectu civium quam infestis omnium oculis conspici mallem; tu cum conscientia scelerum tuorum agnoscas odium omnium iustum et iam diu tibi debitum, dubitas, quorum mentes sensusque volneras, eorum aspectum praesentiamque vitare? Si te parentes timerent atque odissent tui neque eos ulla ratione placare posses, ut opinor, ab eorum oculis aliquo concederes. Nunc te patria, quae communis est parens omnium nostrum, odit ac metuit et iam diu nihil te iudicat nisi de parricidio suo cogitare; huius tu neque auctoritatem verebere nec iudicium sequere nec vim pertimesces?

[18] Quae tecum, Catilina, sic agit et quodam modo tacita loquitur: "Nullum iam aliquot annis facinus exstitit nisi per te, nullum flagitium sine te; tibi uni multorum civium neces, tibi vexatio direptioque sociorum inpunita fuit ac libera; tu non solum ad neglegendas leges et quaestiones, verum etiam ad evertendas perfringendasque valuisti. Superiora illa, quamquam ferenda non fuerunt, tamen, ut potui, tuli; nunc vero me totam esse in metu propter unum te, quicquid increpuerit, Catilinam timeri, nullum videri contra me consilium iniri posse, quod a tuo scelere abhorreat, non est ferendum. Quam ob rem discede atque hunc mihi timorem eripe; si est verus, ne opprimar, sin falsus, ut tandem aliquando timere desinam."

[19] VIII. Haec si tecum, ita ut dixi, patria loquatur, nonne impetrare debeat, etiamsi vim adhibere non possit? Quid, quod tu te ipse in custodiam dedisti, quod vitandae suspicionis causa ad M'. Lepidum te habitare velle dixisti? A quo non receptus etiam ad me venire ausus es atque, ut domi meae te adservarem, rogasti. Cum a me quoque id responsum tulisses, me nullo modo posse isdem parietibus tuto esse tecum, qui magno in periculo essem, quod isdem moenibus contineremur, ad Q. Metellum praetorem venisti. A quo repudiatus ad sodalem tuum, virum optumum, M. Metellum, demigrasti; quem tu videlicet et ad custodiendum diligentissimum et ad suspicandum sagacissimum et ad vindicandum fortissimum fore putasti. Sed quam longe videtur a carcere atque a vinculis abesse debere, qui se ipse iam dignum custodia iudicarit!

[20] Quae cum ita sint, Catilina, dubitas, si emori aequo animo non potes, abire in aliquas terras et vitam istam multis suppliciis iustis debitisque ereptam fugae solitudinique mandare? "Refer" inquis "ad senatum"; id enim postulas et, si hic ordo [sibi] placere decreverit te ire in exilium, optemperaturum te esse dicis. Non referam, id quod abhorret a meis moribus, et tamen faciam, ut intellegas, quid hi de te sentiant. Egredere ex urbe, Catilina, libera rem publicam metu, in exilium, si hanc vocem exspectas, proficiscere. Quid est, Catilina? ecquid attendis, ecquid animadvertis horum silentium? Patiuntur, tacent. Quid exspectas auctoritatem loquentium, quorum voluntatem tacitorum perspicis?

[21] At si hoc idem huic adulescenti optimo, P. Sestio, si fortissimo viro, M. Marcello, dixissem, iam mihi consuli hoc ipso in templo iure optimo senatus vim et manus intulisset. De te autem, Catilina, cum quiescunt, probant, cum patiuntur, decernunt, cum tacent, clamant, neque hi solum, quorum tibi auctoritas est videlicet cara, vita vilissima, sed etiam illi equites Romani, honestissimi atque optimi viri, ceterique fortissimi cives, qui circumstant senatum, quorum tu et frequentiam videre et studia perspicere et voces paulo ante exaudire potuisti. Quorum ego vix abs te iam diu manus ac tela contineo, eosdem facile adducam, ut te haec, quae vastare iam pridem studes, relinquentem usque ad portas prosequantur.

[22] IX. Quamquam quid loquor? te ut ulla res frangat, tu ut umquam te corrigas, tu ut ullam fugam meditere, tu ut ullum exilium cogites? Utinam tibi istam mentem di inmortales duint! tametsi video, si mea voce perterritus ire in exilium animum induxeris quanta tempestas invidiae nobis, si minus in praesens tempus recenti memoria scelerum tuorum, at in posteritatem impendeat. Sed est tanti, dum modo ista sit privata calamitas et a rei publicae periculis seiungatur. Sed tu ut vitiis tuis commoveare, ut legum poenas pertimescas, ut temporibus rei publicae cedas, non est postulandum. Neque enim is es, Catilina, ut te aut pudor umquam a turpitudine aut metus a periculo aut ratio a furore revocarit.

[23] Quam ob rem, ut saepe iam dixi, proficiscere ac, si mihi inimico, ut praedicas, tuo conflare vis invidiam, recta perge in exilium; vix feram sermones hominum, si id feceris, vix molem istius invidiae, si in exilium iussu consulis ieris, sustinebo. Sin autem servire meae laudi et gloriae mavis, egredere cum inportuna sceleratorum manu, confer te ad Manlium, concita perditos cives, secerne te a bonis, infer patriae bellum, exsulta impio latrocinio, ut a me non eiectus ad alienos, sed invitatus ad tuos isse videaris.

[24] Quamquam quid ego te invitem, a quo iam sciam esse praemissos, qui tibi ad Forum Aurelium praestolarentur armati, cui iam sciam pactam et constitutam cum Manlio diem, a quo etiam aquilam illam argenteam, quam tibi ac tuis omnibus confido perniciosam ac funestam futuram, cui domi tuae sacrarium [scelerum tuorum] constitutum fuit, sciam esse praemissam? Tu ut illa carere diutius possis, quam venerari ad caedem proficiscens solebas, a cuius altaribus saepe istam impiam dexteram ad necem civium transtulisti?

[25] X. Ibis tandem aliquando, quo te iam pridem ista tua cupiditas effrenata ac furiosa rapiebat; neque enim tibi haec res adfert dolorem, sed quandam incredibilem voluptatem. Ad hanc te amentiam natura peperit, voluntas exercuit, fortuna servavit. Numquam tu non modo otium, sed ne bellum quidem nisi nefarium concupisti. Nactus es ex perditis atque ab omni non modo fortuna, verum etiam spe derelictis conflatam inproborum manum. [26] Hic tu qua laetitia perfruere, quibus gaudiis exultabis, quanta in voluptate bacchabere, cum in tanto numero tuorum neque audies virum bonum quemquam neque videbis! Ad huius vitae studium meditati illi sunt, qui feruntur, labores tui, iacere humi non solum ad obsidendum stuprum, verum etiam ad facinus obeundum, vigilare non solum insidiantem somno maritorum, verum etiam bonis otiosorum. Habes, ubi ostentes tuam illam praeclaram patientiam famis, frigoris, inopiae rerum omnium, quibus te brevi tempore confectum esse senties. [27] Tantum profeci tum, cum te a consulatu reppuli, ut exsul potius temptare quam consul vexare rem publicam posses, atque ut id, quod esset a te scelerate susceptum, latrocinium potius quam bellum nominaretur.

XI. Nunc, ut a me, patres conscripti, quandam prope iustam patriae querimoniam detester ac deprecer, percipite, quaeso, diligenter, quae dicam, et ea penitus animis vestris mentibusque mandate. Etenim, si mecum patria, quae mihi vita mea multo est carior, si cuncta Italia, si omnis res publica loquatur:

"M.Tulli, quid agis? Tune eum, quem esse hostem comperisti, quem ducem belli futurum vides, quem expectari imperatorem in castris hostium sentis, auctorem sceleris, principem coniurationis, evocatorem servorum et civium perditorum, exire patiere, ut abs te non emissus ex urbe, sed immissus in urbem esse videatur? Nonne hunc in vincla duci, non ad mortem rapi, non summo supplicio mactari imperabis? [28] Quid tandem te impedit? mosne maiorum? At persaepe etiam privati in hac re publica perniciosos cives morte multarunt. An leges, quae de civium Romanorum supplicio rogatae sunt? At numquam in hac urbe, qui a re publica defecerunt, civium iura tenuerunt. An invidiam posteritatis times? Praeclaram vero populo Romano refers gratiam, qui te, hominem per te cognitum nulla commendatione maiorum tam mature ad summum imperium per omnis honorum gradus extulit, si propter invidiam aut alicuius periculi metum salutem civium tuorum neglegis. [29] Sed, si quis est invidiae metus, non est vehementius severitatis ac fortitudinis invidia quam inertiae ac nequitiae pertimescenda. An, cum bello vastabitur Italia, vexabuntur urbes, tecta ardebunt tum te non existumas invidiae incendio conflagraturum?"

XII. His ego sanctissimis rei publicae vocibus et eorum hominum, qui hoc idem sentiunt, mentibus pauca respondebo. Ego si hoc optimum factu iudicarem, patres conscripti, Catilinam morte multari, unius usuram horae gladiatori isti ad vivendum non dedissem. Etenim si summi viri et clarissimi cives Saturnini et Gracchorum et Flacci et superiorum complurium sanguine non modo se non contaminarunt, sed etiam honestarunt, certe verendum mihi non erat, ne quid hoc parricida civium interfecto invidiae [mihi] in posteritatem redundaret. Quodsi ea mihi maxime inpenderet tamen hoc animo fui semper, ut invidiam virtute partam gloriam, non invidiam putarem.

[30] Quamquam non nulli sunt in hoc ordine, qui aut ea, quae inminent non videant aut ea, quae vident, dissimulent; qui spem Catilinae mollibus sententiis aluerunt coniurationemque nascentem non credendo corroboraverunt; quorum auctoritate multi non solum improbi, verum etiam inperiti, si in hunc animadvertissem, crudeliter et regie factum esse dicerent. Nunc intellego, si iste, quo intendit, in Manliana castra pervenerit, neminem tam stultum fore, qui non videat coniurationem esse factam, neminem tam improbum qui non fateatur. Hoc autem uno interfecto intellego hanc rei publicae pestem paulisper reprimi, non in perpetuum comprimi posse. Quodsi se eiecerit secumque suos eduxerit et eodem ceteros undique collectos naufragos adgregarit, extinguetur atque delebitur non modo haec tam adulta rei publicae pestis, verum etiam stirps ac semen malorum omnium.

[31] Etenim iam diu, patres conscripti, in his periculis coniurationis insidiisque versamur, sed nescio quo pacto omnium scelerum ac veteris furoris et audaciae maturitas in nostri consulatus tempus erupit. Quodsi ex tanto latrocinio iste unus tolletur, videbimur fortasse ad breve quoddam tempus cura et metu esse relevati, periculum autem residebit et erit inclusum penitus in venis atque in visceribus rei publicae. Ut saepe homines aegri morbo gravi cum aestu febrique iactantur, si aquam gelidam biberunt, primo relevari videntur, deinde multo gravius vehementiusque adflictantur, sic hic morbus, qui est in re publica, relevatus istius poena vehementius reliquis vivis ingravescet.

[32] Quare secedant inprobi, secernant se a bonis, unum in locum congregentur, muro denique, [id] quod saepe iam dixi, secernantur a nobis; desinant insidiari domi suae consuli, circumstare tribunal praetoris urbani, obsidere cum gladiis curiam, malleolos et faces ad inflammandam urbem comparare; sit denique inscriptum in fronte unius cuiusque, quid de re publica sentiat. Polliceor hoc vobis, patres conscripti, tantam in nobis consulibus fore diligentiam, tantam in vobis auctoritatem, tantam in equitibus Romanis virtutem, tantam in omnibus bonis consensionem, ut Catilinae profectione omnia patefacta, inlustrata, oppressa, vindicata esse videatis.

[33] Hisce ominibus, Catilina, cum summa rei publicae salute, cum tua peste ac pernicie cumque eorum exitio, qui se tecum omni scelere parricidioque iunxerunt, proficiscere ad impium bellum ac nefarium. Tu, Iuppiter, qui isdem quibus haec urbs auspiciis a Romulo es constitutus, quem Statorem huius urbis atque imperii vere nominamus, hunc et huius socios a tuis [aris] ceterisque templis, a tectis urbis ac moenibus, a vita fortunisque civium [omnium] arcebis et homines bonorum inimicos, hostis patriae, latrones Italiae scelerum foedere inter se ac nefaria societate coniunctos aeternis suppliciis vivos mortuosque mactabis.[/quote]


DENOUNCED.

Waiting for kthx. I agree that the Bert lynch needs to happen.
Last edited by pitoli on Wed Jan 22, 2014 9:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
BROseidon
BROseidon
Expert Marxman
User avatar
User avatar
BROseidon
Expert Marxman
Expert Marxman
Posts: 8242
Joined: April 18, 2013

Post Post #1723 (ISO) » Wed Jan 22, 2014 2:51 pm

Post by BROseidon »

GOD DAMMIT I FUCKED UP SPOILER TAGS

@mod can you fix the spoiler tags in the above post so that it doesn't bog down the thread?
User avatar
Imperium
Imperium
Jack of All Trades
User avatar
User avatar
Imperium
Jack of All Trades
Jack of All Trades
Posts: 7078
Joined: August 21, 2013

Post Post #1724 (ISO) » Wed Jan 22, 2014 2:57 pm

Post by Imperium »

Yeah but see now that you know I'm town, I should have a speech about my awesomeness.
Locked