Newbie 1471: Italian Ice (Game Over!)

[GuyInFreezer]

VC 1.4

Nachomamma8 (L-2):

AbboTT | TierShift | bjc

AbboTT (L-3):

Nachomamma8 | ika

ika (L-3):

emeraldemon | Rob W

bjc (L-4):

RayFrost

Not Voting:

Lynch Me Bro

The deadline is in Feburary 3, 5:00 PM EST.
Deadline counter: (expired on 2014-02-03 17:00:00)

[Nachomamma8]

What did you get from my response, ika?

[GuyInFreezer]

Eh major fuckup on the VC. I'm fixing them at the moment.

[ika]

What did you get from my response, ika?

Enough information to have you as at least back in a null. Your coasting is still bothersome, but i take it more as IC mode. Really right now i would like to hear abbott more.

Your points on bjc so express me some intrest becasue earlier you have bjc slotted as town. I need to hear from more players before I truly decide if you are town or not.

[bjc]

Well I will admit my vote on Nacho was weak to some extent. It was mostly to make a wagon. Same crap I've done all game (try to spark discussion). If I didn't do that, I don't think ika would have put you at L-1 unless others voted, and who knows if you would've supplied more information. Hmmm...

I will also

unvote; vote: Abott

[ika]

Right now im conflicted between Abbott and you. Both of you are claissifed as the higher teir in this game. So i feel like you were trying to stop your train. But at the same accord, your train picked up speed quite quickly for silly reasoning. But others did have an idea.

I figure between abbott and you right now. One of you are scum and the ohter is town. Or this is an elaborate ploy of cross bussing. However i dont think you would take it to that level of play in a newbie game.

We may have plenty of time but right now my 2 primary fos are you and abbott with a smaller one on bjc for big buddying with me. However i will wait a bit and see what others have to say.

[ika]

tldr variation:

between abbott and nacho, i think one of them is scum and the other is town.

[ika]

I will give us some questions to generate contents if it will help

Favorite role to play as?
Playstyle preference?
where do you originate from if you played before?
do you prefer town, scum, or neutral?
Who is your strongest town and scum read?
who are your null reads?
why are you reading all those players like that?

those question should generate contents

im gonna repost this for anyone who feels like answering it. This is more for if we reach a dead block

[bjc]

Favorite role to play as? On my sports site we had a college football themed game where I was Tim Tebow, Jack of All Trades. Lol. That was a fun game.
Playstyle preference? Generally aggressive, lynch-happy on day one, and full of sarcasm.
where do you originate from if you played before? A college football website.
do you prefer town, scum, or neutral? Neutral, I have only been town once.
Who is your strongest town and scum read? Town: Ugh, probably ika. lol. Scum: Abott
who are your null reads? Everyone else? I'll probably read (in detail) this whole thread and ISO anyone that draws my suspicion tomorrow and come up with better reads.
why are you reading all those players like that? Because.

[Wagon Me Pal]

Well I will admit my vote on Nacho was weak to some extent. It was mostly to make a wagon. Same crap I've done all game (try to spark discussion). If I didn't do that, I don't think ika would have put you at L-1 unless others voted, and who knows if you would've supplied more information. Hmmm...

I will also

unvote; vote: Abott

Just sudden mood changed, why did you give up on nacho and suddenly follow the wagon? Kay, it looks like you're looking for a quick-lynch.

VOTE: bcj

[ika]

im still looking at abbott but bjc wanting for quick-lynch is becomign troublesome

bjc, why do you want quick-lynch? why are you sheeping? please elaborate on your scum read on abbott.

[TierShift]

Hey, nacho. Good to have you in here. I agree that there maybe is a slight hint of fencesitting in abbott's play, but it's way too early to do your famous cases and get all these newbies to believe you have found scum already. They see you a a god, yaknow

Ika, agreed, bjc's willingness to sheep is quite bothersome.

Bjc, why do you sheep so much?

[PurpleBandit3000]

Laptop broke down. Sorry.

[ika]

Hey, nacho. Good to have you in here. I agree that there maybe is a slight hint of fencesitting in abbott's play, but it's way too early to do your famous cases and get all these newbies to believe you have found scum already. They see you a a god, yaknow

Ika, agreed, bjc's willingness to sheep is quite bothersome.

Bjc, why do you sheep so much?

Thats why i still have nacho as null. His reaction to l-1 was mediocer but good enough to pass off for me atm. But looking back, something is just irking me. I just cant figure it out...

bjc answers to my questions gives me an odd vibe, bjc give a full read list and reasonings for each, your floping everywhere is troublesome. im going to bjc becasue of his mention of a scum quickhammer on nacho just rubs me the wrong way

VOTE: bjc

its odd playing a newbie game, i feel like im reading all the noobs as scums becasue they are noobs.

i got an exercise for everyone:

do a read on all the players and why they are that. i will do mine after a few players do theirs this will be a good exercise for everyone and a good way to have some dicussion beside us throwing vote everywhere

[AbboTT]

UNVOTE: That escalated quickly. Geez.

Sorry I missed the fun earlier. Lots of questions pointed my way. Catching up now but it's 0200, detailed posts may have to wait for tomorrow. I'll give it a shot though.

[AbboTT]

LOL at Nacho's dramatic reaction to his wagon. Wow. Man, I love a good IC wagon. You know, "the bigger they are" and all of that.

I honestly didn't have any read on nacho until he threw a fit and clutched onto his little OMGUS baby blanket for protection.

It's either scum or ego. Undecided at the moment.

That being said, pressure on me is totally fair right now. I get it. This game is moving a little faster than my last few. I just need to adjust.

[AbboTT]

Abbott, why do you say wagons are the way out of RVS, then place a lone vote?

Fair question, but you got it backwards. I placed a vote, started a wagon that eventually ran all the way up to L-1, and _then_ said that wagons are the way out of RVS.

Don't get it twisted, boo.

[AbboTT]

@Nacho: I don't have a handle on your playstyle yet. Would you help me understand something? You seem to be the type of player who drops a lot of unsupported reads (So-and-so is scum. So-and-so is incredibly town).

Are these your genuine reads or are you just sharing your gut reactions or current thoughts based on their most recent content?

I am usually very wary of people who declare things with certainty this early in the game. There are but a few people who _know_ who is scum and who is town. Those people are scum. Since townies have no real incentive to lie, that sort of bold posturing puts me off.

[AbboTT]

In nacho's 95 he scolds me for supposedly demanding content from him and then, in the same post, invites ika to call him out if he isn't paying enough attention to the game.

Curious.

[AbboTT]

Hahaha. And then, in 98, he attacks me for the same thing again _and_ rewrites history here:

Then Abbott goes on not even to dip his toe in the pool of drama and instead throws some nonsense useless questions at ika and pushes me for "OMGUS". If Abbott were town, he would be happier to delve into that drama, parse reads from it, but NOPE. This is the mark of scum.

Either he doesn't understand my game at all or he is BSing here, hoping nobody will bother to check him. I commented on the drama and them immediately began investigating it.

[AbboTT]

VOTE: Nacho

Uses you come backs and tell me you were drunk or high when you made your last few posts, I'm pretty darn convinced you're a rat.

[RayFrost]

If you aren't declaring things with certainty, you haven't learned the art of mafia. ALL THINGS ARE CERTAIN, NOTHING IS UNCERTAIN.

At least when it comes to expressing it. "I think so and so is scum because of this and that" is a lot less convincing than "So and so is scum. Lynch it it must die kill it kill kill die scum die here's why you should die, please lynch this scum, die" even if your level of confidence is of the "I think so possibly maybe" variety. Also, expressing uncertainty about a read decreases the pressure that comes from it.

Imagine, for example, that I cam on and say the following:

I'm not sure, but Ika might possibly be scum guys. If you look at his posts he kinda gives me the feeling of someone coming up with a mix of not-really-tells (the whole "ic means should be playing a specific way / doing more than anybody else" thing - just for the record, this is completely untrue, an IC is meant to play the game as normal and be available to answer questions regarding the game of mafia and how it is thought about / played on this site, not be a paragon of towniness and a shining example of the pure and truest way of playing the game and yes this is all in one parenthetical because I like it that way) and sort of inaccurate statements that are based on piggy backing off of someone else (saying nacho is coasting).

He even kinda shows that he's not confident about his read by saying it's probably biased by other people. Why doesn't he show confidence in his read? Seems a little bit suspicious to me, you know? Especially since he's putting Nacho at l-1 despite his lack of confidence. And l-1 is claim/lynch range. I don't know about you guys, but I would consider voting him a potentially good idea. Maybe catch scum.

Not to mention he goes on about nacho coasting but puts me at null-town. I kinda... don't have any content... yet I'm somewhat town... for coasting. I think that it'd be different. I mean, I'm as experienced as nacho, so why do I get a town-flavored null read when I have basically coasted without any content for five pages? Seems a little strange to me.

He also admits that he's only really looking at the two most popular picks for scum as scummy lynch choices. The lack of original content seems off to me. I also get a generically off feeling about his posting that makes me think he might be scum. Ika is probably a good choice to vote.

Unvote, Vote: Ika

Now compare it to this:

Guys, Ika is scum. Look at his posting for a few moments regarding Nacho. He comes in with focus shifting to Nacho, and essentially says Nacho is scummy for not being an IC in the way Ika thinks an IC should be played (which is wrong - see above explanation of what an IC does) and just following the words of other people. He doesn't have any

real

backing to what he has to say. It's very much one of those "attention is shifting, jump the wagon!" type things.

He even admits outright that he feels his vote is more a matter of following other people (saying it's biased by others) than of any actual reasoning or thinking of his own. He's even so confident in his sheeping that he's willing to put nacho into l-1 (claim / lynch range)

in the first four pages

and doesn't even unvote despite the fact that he lacks his own real backing (and expresses a lack of confidence in his read). He is literally sheeping someone else's call that Nacho is coasting

in the first four pages of a game

to put him at l-1 while at the same time hamstringing his vote by saying he has no actual confidence in it while still keeping it there. Can't get any more obvious than this.

Then, after just a little bit of replying from Nacho, he jumps ship faster than a paranoid man thinks someone's out to get him. Why? Because he never really had any confidence in his read in the first place. And it's so much easier to just constantly shift around behind whatever looks like it'll get steam than to actually provide anything of his own to work with.

Even his reads list is wholly unimpressive. Where's the reasoning for putting me at null-town, for example, when I have literally posted

zero content this game

? How do you slightly read town off of someone with equal experience to the IC doing the most blatant level of coasting possible (no content whatsoever) when you literally get a "hard" scum read off of the IC doing the very same thing? The double standards used for convenience are scummy. Probably because he's scum.

He then goes on to essentially say that he's only really looking at the people considered scummiest. He's blatantly and openly admitting that he's sheeping the majority on who to look at. The consistent lack of own-idea posting, the contrived feel I get from several of his posts, and the generic ingenuity of his "scumhunting" all point to him being scum.

Ika is scum. Scum is Ika. Kill it.

Unvote, Vote: Ika

[RayFrost]

In nacho's 95 he scolds me for supposedly demanding content from him and then, in the same post, invites ika to call him out if he isn't paying enough attention to the game.

Curious.

The two are flat out not the same thing.

"Call me out if you think I'm neglecting posting in this game" is different from calling you out on posting but not providing any content with said posting. I feel the need to comment here before Nacho does because I think the suspicion of nacho is ridiculous. As in worthy of ridicule. The literal definition of the word.

It boils down to "the ic isn't playing like a deity? waht oh noes what could possibly be the reason for him not being the most active person with every post brimming with beauty and genius? he's scum coasting, that's it! got im guys!" and you essentially omgus'ing the hell out of him. If ika weren't so obviously scum, I'd probably want you to be lynched for great justice.

[AbboTT]

How the heck did I OMGUS him? Lol... I started this. I am the one pressuring him, remember? Maybe we need to take a step back to page one for a moment.

As for your second paragraph, no. Maybe that's where the other votes are coming from, but that's not my motivation.

[AbboTT]

For the record, I don't have many strong feelings about ika at the moment. I could go either way on that one. I do think it's too early to lynch though.