Newbie 1471: Italian Ice (Game Over!)

[GuyInFreezer]

VC 1.4

Nachomamma8 (L-3):

TierShift | AbboTT

AbboTT (L-3):

Nachomamma8 | bjc

ika (L-2):

emeraldemon | Rob W | RayFrost

bjc (L-4):

Lynch Me Bro

RayFrost (L-4):

ika

Not Voting:

None

The deadline is in Feburary 3, 5:00 PM EST.
Deadline counter: (expired on 2014-02-03 17:00:00)

Rob W have been prodded.

[bjc]

Explain the rayfrost read.

Mostly a feeling like most so far, but he hasn't posted much up to the posts I covered (going up to 109). What I remember reading of his so far, I like it. I'll finish soon.

[ika]

Frost playstle and agression comes off to me as a 2-way street

scum agression or town agression.

his deathtunnle on me feel like its scum inclined, however it could also be him tring to gauge a reaction out of me if hes town. im not a newbie and have plenty of experince playing. So i know the diffrent playstelyes. However fros apparenyl havign a few games under his belt means this isnt something new.

My only question is what is frost hoping to get out of this tunnle on me. is he trying to get a myslynch on me or is he merly gauging reactions on it. He did cause some discussion with it but its too early for me to make a final say on what to think of it

[ika]

You're acting as if displaying confidence is inherently using up credibility. It doesn't. Consistently confident type players don't suddenly start getting ignored. If you're actively vocal and confident, you get more people to respond to you because they react to you as if you're full on. This provides greater depth to getting read son the reactions, etc, etc, etc. And of course I wouldn't just flip someone five pages in but that doesn't mean I should just be gentle. Pushing hard gets stronger reactions with which one gets stronger reads. It helps convince people, it makes you seem less wishy washy, it promotes town reads on you (which is good regardless of alignment), makes you seem more vocal with the same level of content (again, town reads are good regardless of alignment), provides more pressure on the people or person being pressured, and opens up the way to any level of discussion that might be necessary to get reads.

It even has helped with this exchange, since you're going to reply to what I said.

tbh if a player is over-confident they found scum and they dont flip scum. they lose a lot of credability to me and would question them.

[RayFrost]

P-edit: there's more posts since my last one, I haven't read them, this is in isolation from that.

-snip-

It is more of my playstyle. If you want to cram a lynch down me then go ahead, it will just come back to you. I know there is no "mayeb this maybe that" but when you have the air of uncertainty, you have to go with guts and what you know. Like right here, your post is good and informative, but have you isoed me and read many of my other posts?

This is a game of being certain and uncertainty is bad. However I will do this a lot. It is one of my flaws that i have. Wehn i become certain i will stick with it. as of right now i am still tryong to gether information and figure things out. That is why i am so indecicive right now.

I rather have a dead-lock confidence on something then going blindly into it.

You are seriously going with the "go ahead try to lynch me, it will come back to haunt you and make you seem scummy WWwoooOoooooOspookyghostsoundsOoooOoo" option? ++scumminess

I literally read this entire thread and you're asking me if I read you in isolation? Seriously? Are you seriously asking me a serious question here?

There's a difference between being indecisive and blatantly following people instead of using your own noggin. Seems to me you've been doing the former more than the latter.

Do you have ANYTHING AT ALL that you are certain about?

And there's more than just "dead-lock confidence" and "going blindly"

[RayFrost]

I feel the need to comment here before Nacho does because I think the suspicion of nacho is ridiculous. As in worthy of ridicule. The literal definition of the word.

how about you explain to me why you felt the need to defend nacho when hes capable of doing it himself?

I literally answer this question in the post you quote.

So when I flip town what will you do? I like to look at options and what could fit and what could not. Your reasoning on me is vaild but you seemed to have crammed it down that im scum becasue of my playstyle. I am merly trying to get a better grasp at why you felt the need to defned him.

I don't see how anything aside from the last line is relevant to the post you quoted. I'll still reply.

IF you flip town, I'll look at the votes on you to see which feel like shameless bandwagoning, I'll reread the thread, etc, etc. Just with the new information garnered adding to my perspective.

Also are you saying that my case is valid but it's your playstyle so it's not valid? Mother of god this is one of my greatest pet peeves.

I didn't feel the need to defend him. I have an issue with the case being bad, so I'm saying it's bad. If a bad case is made, I'm going to say so. Simply put.

[Rob W]

What have i missed?

[ika]

-snip-

yes im goign to go like that, as the game progresses, i start to become more focus on who to pick. My playstle is much diffrent then your liking apparently if you are town. otherwise im going to take you as scum trying to twist my words and how i play to get me lynched. if you dont like my indcicve right now on day 1 then go ahead. or we can sit down and have someting of use to do.

day one holds most uncertenty, and thats where i stand. if you hate me for it as twon, oh well cry me a river. if you are scum, you are just trying to get me out. becasue of my uncertaty

p-edit: if thats what you think i wont stop you. some players get better as time goes on. i just know you are barkign up the wrong tree atm.

[RayFrost]

Frost playstle and agression comes off to me as a 2-way street

scum agression or town agression.

his deathtunnle on me feel like its scum inclined, however it could also be him tring to gauge a reaction out of me if hes town. im not a newbie and have plenty of experince playing. So i know the diffrent playstelyes. However fros apparenyl havign a few games under his belt means this isnt something new.

My only question is what is frost hoping to get out of this tunnle on me. is he trying to get a myslynch on me or is he merly gauging reactions on it. He did cause some discussion with it but its too early for me to make a final say on what to think of it

... how the fuck is this a "deathtunnel" and how is that inherently scummy?

Dude, your perspective of your experience vs mine is weird to me. I have been on this site for going on five years. I'm not sure if you're trying to be rude by calling my experience "a few games" or if you're really that full of yourself on the four or so months on site that you have or if you think that some length of time on some other site constitutes having thorough and valuable experience that outstrips playing here, but you should work on this because it's extremely antagonizing to minimize things like that.

It's not a tunnel. I've commented to/about abbot despite having only really been a part of this game for... ONE PAGE.

Also the fact that you completely avoid actually replying to my points and just say that literally all of them are valid points but are your playstyle is scummy as hell to me.

Explain the doublestandard re: the reads on me and nacho from your reads post.

[RayFrost]

What have i missed?

Everything. Catch up and post content or perish.

[emeraldemon]

Lots of stuff I missed, trying to sort through it all now. But first things first

@ika:

52 "As you play more games, you will understand"
62 "i may not be ic here or se, but i do have a fair amount of experience from my home site i would say."
87 "i am quite expeinced and want to help the new players"
113 "its odd playing a newbie game, i feel like im reading all the noobs as scums becasue they are noobs."
152 "im not a newbie and have plenty of experince playing."

Stop. Telling me you are super experienced mafia veteran will not convince me of anything. It's probably not scummy, unless you are trying to use it to get others to sheep you, but it's definitely not making me trust you more. Honestly it just makes you sound insecure.

[ika]

Frost playstle and agression comes off to me as a 2-way street

scum agression or town agression.

his deathtunnle on me feel like its scum inclined, however it could also be him tring to gauge a reaction out of me if hes town. im not a newbie and have plenty of experince playing. So i know the diffrent playstelyes. However fros apparenyl havign a few games under his belt means this isnt something new.

My only question is what is frost hoping to get out of this tunnle on me. is he trying to get a myslynch on me or is he merly gauging reactions on it. He did cause some discussion with it but its too early for me to make a final say on what to think of it

... how the fuck is this a "deathtunnel" and how is that inherently scummy?

Dude, your perspective of your experience vs mine is weird to me. I have been on this site for going on five years. I'm not sure if you're trying to be rude by calling my experience "a few games" or if you're really that full of yourself on the four or so months on site that you have or if you think that some length of time on some other site constitutes having thorough and valuable experience that outstrips playing here, but you should work on this because it's extremely antagonizing to minimize things like that.

I was not paying attnetion to how long you have been on site, it was not ment to be an attack i was just refering to it as se. I do not think my off-site outstips here. In fact i kinda think the opposite of it because of how our site works. But i go with what i got.

It's not a tunnel. I've commented to/about abbot despite having only really been a part of this game for... ONE PAGE.

all to the eye of the beholder.

Also the fact that you completely avoid actually replying to my points and just say that literally all of them are valid points but are your playstyle

is scummy as hell to me.

the bolded part is what i would highlight there, its scummy to you. So you are saying as a town, i shoudl discredit you back instead of accepting it? What if i do think they are vaild? why is it such a big deal that i agree that the poitns you bring up are vaild? Should i just rebuttle everything that is thrown at me? I am repsonding in what i think of your playstlye and what it tell me.

Explain the doublestandard re: the reads on me and nacho from your reads post.

the scum nach and null-town on you read? it was more just offhand reads. it was also a thing to see how many people would jump onto it as well.

[ika]

Lots of stuff I missed, trying to sort through it all now. But first things first

@ika:

52 "As you play more games, you will understand"
62 "i may not be ic here or se, but i do have a fair amount of experience from my home site i would say."
87 "i am quite expeinced and want to help the new players"
113 "its odd playing a newbie game, i feel like im reading all the noobs as scums becasue they are noobs."
152 "im not a newbie and have plenty of experince playing."

Stop. Telling me you are super experienced mafia veteran will not convince me of anything. It's probably not scummy, unless you are trying to use it to get others to sheep you, but it's definitely not making me trust you more. Honestly it just makes you sound insecure.

no im not trying to get sheeps, im more trying to help. for me i find it kinda sad to have nacho be coasting and the other 2 not be around. i was kinda hoping to come into a newbie game with a bunch of players who would be coming on and posting like crazy and ic/se giving contents post or explaing things but the lack of it makes me disheartened.

[RayFrost]

And what did you get out of your supposed reaction test with your read list?

There's no "content in the eye of the beholder" in my actively asking abbot for specific information. The fact the rest of the playerlist hasn't been active during the time I have been isn't really something I can control.

[ika]

And what did you get out of your supposed reaction test with your read list?

There's no "content in the eye of the beholder" in my actively asking abbot for specific information. The fact the rest of the playerlist hasn't been active during the time I have been isn't really something I can control.

tbh not much other then your reaction. seeing how i have not played with you, it again goes one of 2 ways

A] scum twisting words and tring to get me lynched
B] not understanding what i was aiming for
C] misunderstodd town

as for the lack of player contibuting, i cant controll it either. its kinda more of "i expected this but got this" disapointment.

anyway im gonna head off. i find it that when i reflect on it i come back with a clearer head.

also if you could answer the questions i posted

Favorite role to play as?
Playstyle preference?
where do you originate from if you played before?
do you prefer town, scum, or neutral?
Who is your strongest town and scum read?
who are your null reads?
why are you reading all those players like that?

this will help decide some things.

[emeraldemon]

The thing about ika comes down to this: is the carelessness a town tell? Moving votes around, semi-random reads thrown about. It doesn't feel careful the way you might expect scum to be careful. But maybe he's just looking for a lynch to get behind without putting too much effort in. No honest scumhunting feel either. Maybe too glib?
@nacho
I didn't see any finished games from ika on this site. Do you know his meta from somewhere else?

bjc's vote and explanation in 104 is weaksauce on waffles. Also his trajectory on ika rings false to me: in 60 he says he's wary (after I accuse him of buddying), 84 says "I can't say he's confirmed townie" which means nothing. In 108 answering ika's question about strongest townread he says "Ugh, probably ika. lol." Where is this coming from?

I dunno, but for now it's enough to
VOTE: bjc

@RayFrost
I'd like to hear your opinion about bjc please.

[emeraldemon]

also if you could answer the questions i posted

Don't pretend you're helping town by breaking "what are your reads?" into four questions. My favorite playstyle is winning. If you are scum I will find out and lynch you.

[AbboTT]

tbh if a player is over-confident they found scum and they dont flip scum. they lose a lot of credability to me and would question them.

THIS. I don't understand why this is a weird concept. So much this.

[AbboTT]

it was also a thing to see how many people would jump onto it as well.

[AbboTT]

Updated read list:

ED - townish
BJC - townish
RF - patronizing townie

TS - mildly scummy
Nacho - scum

ika - ? (ISO needed)
RW - ? (post or die)
LMB - ? (post or die)

[emeraldemon]

@abbott

why is bjc townish? What about the vote in 104 and the stuff I said in 165?

[ika]

VOTE: lynch me bro

0 contents so far. im tired but i want to hear from him

[Wagon Me Pal]

Guys if read my post, I breadcrumbed JK for a reaction test, and bjc immediately Omgus'd me by saying i'm scum, then ika voting me. Now I'm 50% sure of ika/bjc scumbuddying.

[RayFrost]

Favorite role to play as?
Playstyle preference?
where do you originate from if you played before?
do you prefer town, scum, or neutral?
Who is your strongest town and scum read?
who are your null reads?
why are you reading all those players like that?

Town rewarder. I made the role up as a fakeclaim when I was scum this one time when we could give the mod a set of desired role abilities and have her generate a fakeclaim that would have the appropriate flavor. I haven't actually played the role, but I feel like it'd be awesome.

My preferred playstyle is transparent and aggressive. I originate from here. I prefer "or"

Currently don't have any strong town reads, and my strongest scum read is pretty obvious. Null reads are the people who haven't posted content yet, with the remainder some flavor of null at varying levels (slightly townish, slightly scummy, etc).

Because of their posting and play. Or lack thereof.

[RayFrost]

I don't see a single breadcrumb, lyme. And I dislike the fact you're seriously trying to avoid posting actual content and responses in favor of talking about some weak breadcrumb bait attempt that probably nobody caught to begin with. Like... seriously.