Open 541 - Too Many Heads Mafia (Game Over)

[Generically Purple]

yesterday was full of noise

Nae, it wasn't.

And I don't know why ye'd think this.

Have ye not gone back and looked at the wagon that developed on ye? Have ye not gone back and looked at who was saying what about the Nacho lynch and how that happened? Considering ye were apparently catching up on the thread for most of this day phase, I would have thought ye were paying close attention to these things.

There was _some_ noise, but full of noise? Nae.

Are you kidding me? I was keeping a good pace with the game, and even I don't want to go back to re-read D1. D1 was full of noise, and the only "scum hunting" there was Mollie pushing Nacho, and me trying to get her to ease off as well as, simultaneously getting a wagon on Mala/rach and even trying to compromise on you when I saw that it wasn't going to happen. everyone else was posting for the sake of posting

because if you were town, you'd recognize why I'm town and you're trying to discount the obvious. Hence scum.

If we be using this logic, you're scum for not recognising why Nacho was town?

I don't believe you believe this is a reasonable line of thought, and I don't believe this is meant to be anything other than manipulative.

Really?

Tammy expecting people who have played with her before to know her town-play when they see it, when she is town while being unable to read those she has played with before isn't anything new.

And? She even had a moment of doubt of nacho-scum, but there were people yelling nacho-scum, and not much of a defense from people who thought he was town outside of me. PFR apparently thought Nacho was town, but they've done crap about it, you've done crap to dissuade the wagon, no one has and it's pretty hard to drop a scum-read when there are others around you agreeing with you.

also? Tammy is pretty well known to have a transparent town game. Nacho? not so much

I worry ye be really naive. Really, really naive.

and you know I am anything but, Nati.

I mean, you HAVE heard my stance on AtE vs emotion, havn't you? on it's own, the admitting to have cried, is null but considering the other factors such as who tammy is, how she was wagoned, why she was wagoned, who wagoned her, the things that she constantly brags about each game (and is, thus super prideful about) ect are all factors in why it was a town-tell and not a scum-tell. the list could go on forever, and ever, and ever


and then, back to SiAm, I don't think she's town, and I stated that town is giving scum the win, before I had placed a vote anyway. I've pushed her since D1 and her claim that no one was going to go after me, that day is complete bullshit. Regardless of me being the only one to make a case between us, I have been the more viable wagon from the start. People have been suspecting me, and my defenders weren't ever going to go out of their way to defend us.

Nacho? he was barely here, and he had his own problems to deal with.
Mollie? She was to busy tunneling Nacho
SG? She was (and is) lost as all fuck in this game, and she still hasn't come back

and not only have I made a case, she has never responded to it. INSTEAD she uses AtE. Actual AtE while calling us scum, which makes very little sense to do if she actually thinks that I am scum.

as for knowing who she is, and what I expect her to know RE me...

if you can tell me that, when I play you would consider me nice, friendly, non-gambity, non-aggressive, and non-pushy when I have a scum-read on someone, if you can say that when I have a scum-read on someone, I won't pursue it if it's weak then I'll give her a pass for thinking those things as well. She knows me better than you, she's played with me more, and hydra'd with me (but that isn't even what I'm scum-reading her for, anyway)

here is what I wanted you to answer, and it has nothing to do with mala/rach other than the opportunity to persuade me to drop it.

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

D1 was full of noise, and the only "scum hunting" there was Mollie pushing Nacho

Maybe in the first 10-15 pages you'd have a point, but the rest of D1 wasn't noise, and mollie wasn't scum hunting, she was yelling and screaming for a lynch while

not actually doing any scum hunting whatsoever

- the extent of her scum hunting was literally, "they're talking like pirates, they must be scum!"

Or you have a very skewed idea of what scum hunting actually is.

Regardless, I don't see how you can think the wagon on Tammy, the reactions to it, the reactions to her reaction to it, and the rest of what happened D1 can be considered "noise".

She even had a moment of doubt of nacho-scum, but there were people yelling nacho-scum, and not much of a defense from people who thought he was town outside of me

First, other people yelling about someone being scum isn't an excuse.

Second, Tammy's "moment of doubt" and subsequent confidence that Nacho is scum had absolutely nothing to do with the people yelling about Nacho being scum. Or if it did, she didn't mention it.

Tammy is pretty well known to have a transparent town game

Right. If it's so transparent, then why is she refusing to be transparent?

And if Tammy is so transparent, why do you get players like ffery and Cabd reading her incorrectly in, say, this game? Do you think she's completely unable to fake elements of her town game? Or do you just think ffery and Cabd are shit at reading her?

here is what I wanted you to answer

I don't see anything there to answer.

If you mean the Tammy stuff, it's irrelevant. I don't believe she really thought she'd been hammered. All the stuff you're writing about her seems to be on the assumption that she knew she was hammered and she couldn't be faking that as scum.

If you mean the SiAm stuff, I'm not interested in inserting myself into that argument. I disagree with your points and I disagree with their points.

Let's say I buy that Tammy is town (and it takes an incredible amount of imagination to believe this is a possibility, so work with me)... SiAm is town. Who's scum among the remaining players?

[Mhork and Mindy]

Ugh I'm sorry I'm still trying to hit PA at the sake time to sync reads though.

But I really don't buy Athena scum for those reason, RPD. Her emotions make sense from a townie point of view.

Athena, can you please just give us something? Your vague reads? Anything to prove you're actually playing that game.

[Athenas Fury]

yesterday was full of noise

Nae, it wasn't.

And I don't know why ye'd think this.

Have ye not gone back and looked at the wagon that developed on ye? Have ye not gone back and looked at who was saying what about the Nacho lynch and how that happened? Considering ye were apparently catching up on the thread for most of this day phase, I would have thought ye were paying close attention to these things.

There was _some_ noise, but full of noise? Nae.

Well then you and I have a very different idea of noise. And if you were actually reading my posts, you would see me talking about the way that nacho pushed my wagon when I had my moment of doubt on him being scum. He was pushing me because I wasn't reacting when he called me scum. I was at work. So he started pushing because I would of course throw a fit. Except I wasn't around. And from what I can tell a lot of people followed mollie onto the nacho lynch because she was certain of her case. And then there was the definitely not noise in the form of trolling and baiting mollie coming from pfr which just helped to fuel her certainty she was right before hammering him for whatever reasons he did. But yeah, how dare we question that suspicious act. Sure.

[Athenas Fury]

because if you were town, you'd recognize why I'm town and you're trying to discount the obvious. Hence scum.

If we be using this logic, you're scum for not recognising why Nacho was town?

I don't believe you believe this is a reasonable line of thought, and I don't believe this is meant to be anything other than manipulative.

You're right because I never expressed any moments of doubt or tried to see things from his point of view to get a better read on him. Nope you're right I totally didn't. Except I did. And I think that if Nacho would have given the chance to actually catch up and interact with me when we were both around, I would have gotten it right.

[Athenas Fury]

Tammy is pretty well known to have a transparent town game

Right. If it's so transparent, then why is she refusing to be transparent?

Because your scum trying to browbeat me. I'm transparent but I'm also stubborn as fuck and I refuse to bow down to scum like you. I have no problem interacting with people I think are town or are talking to me like a person. you're not, so i have no interest in discussing things with you.

And if Tammy is so transparent, why do you get players like ffery and Cabd reading her incorrectly in, say, this game? Do you think she's completely unable to fake elements of her town game? Or do you just think ffery and Cabd are shit at reading her?

You could ask either of them and they'll tell you they don't know how to read me. I was one of cabd's strongest town reads in Red Wedding until an investigation at end game got me. I was one of cabd's scum reads in Chef Mafia even after pushing through a scum lynch day one in a way that really obviously wasn't a bus. Cabd followed Chosen and said that he thought he found an indicator to read me with as scum. And ffery herself, in that game, said that my play was an enigma to her. Them getting me wrong when I was scum a couple times, doesn't meant I don't have a transparent town game, not in the least. And that comparison is bullocks.

here is what I wanted you to answer

I don't see anything there to answer.

If you mean the Tammy stuff, it's irrelevant. I don't believe she really thought she'd been hammered. All the stuff you're writing about her seems to be on the assumption that she knew she was hammered and she couldn't be faking that as scum.

You're just wrong. Me missing claims, fukcing up claims, misunderstanding the setup, and falling for fake hammers are so prevalent in my damn games that anyone who's played with me more than once can't with a good conscience claim that it's impossible I thought I was hammered. I'll let you in on a little secret. I also fell for the fake hammer later that night. I was laying down and trying to fall asleep and checked the thread. I didn't have the energy for it, but whined in our qt about it. The next few posts are me going wait it was another fake one I guess, no wait we're definitely hammered, oh no wait it was fake. The only only time I can remember not falling for a fake hammer was in Hard Boiled and that was because I was there, arguing with Nacho and keeping count as the votes were coming in.

[Athenas Fury]

Ugh I'm sorry I'm still trying to hit PA at the sake time to sync reads though.

But I really don't buy Athena scum for those reason, RPD. Her emotions make sense from a townie point of view.

Athena, can you please just give us something? Your vague reads? Anything to prove you're actually playing that game.

I have. I have you and generically purple as town, which is pretty pathetic of me because I'm basically calling town the people who like me, but I think I'm right.

I need to rethink pfr with the possibility that it wasn't ap posting at the end of day yesterday. I can see former fish's point about their hammer right as nacho was posting and said he would be active, but i'm not sure that he's right about that. I do think it's suspect that they got all up in arms about being asked about that though and feel like they're just going for the easy mislynch here.

rbd is being browbeating scum, and he's really really capable of that so no one should overlook that and think they're town because of it.

i have squirrel girl and siam as nullish town. I'd like to see more from siam and i'd feel better about them depending on a scum flip and how they interacted with them. And if I'm right about squirrel girl she's good at scum and hasn't done anything completely fakable but I get goodish vibes there.

everyone else i have no clue on. macsoon amused me yesterday but hasn't done anything today and making me laugh once might be a good enough reason to get a town read from me day one but it doesn't last all game. I need to be kept laughing.

[Generically Purple]

I don't see anything there to answer.

If you mean the Tammy stuff, it's irrelevant. I don't believe she really thought she'd been hammered. All the stuff you're writing about her seems to be on the assumption that she knew she was hammered and she couldn't be faking that as scum.

If you mean the SiAm stuff, I'm not interested in inserting myself into that argument. I disagree with your points and I disagree with their points.

Let's say I buy that Tammy is town (and it takes an incredible amount of imagination to believe this is a possibility, so work with me)... SiAm is town. Who's scum among the remaining players?

Seriously? :/

and, I don't understand why it's so hard to believe that Tammy thought she was actually hammered like, have you ever been fake hammered before? because, if you have you should know that "was that hammer fake?" a question a person asks themselves right away

SiAm is to me what Tammy is to you, I think so, we should probably put them both off to the side, for now. The two people I had asked tammy about where my top two town-reads and I guess my tentative townread on PA/Mhork would drop to scum IF mala/rach are town

[Generically Purple]

So, like, SC and Yggdra

and, I'll have to take another look at SG, she pings for generic

[Generically Purple]

I definitely don't like Mhorks last post, because I don't see why he thinks he has the right to say that, at all

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

Well then you and I have a very different idea of noise.

<snip>

Let the records show that the snipped part is what I consider noise.

I be not interested in ye waffling on about yesterday and yer whaleshit reasons for voting Nacho. I asked about whether ye'd gone back and looked at the wagon that developed on ye (because I have and a lot of the players on it either look town or have flipped town), I asked whether ye'd gone back and looked at how the Nacho wagon developed (because even if people were sheeping mollie, there were different opinions there and there's more to it than just the PFR thing).

anyone who's played with me more than once can't with a good conscience claim that it's impossible I thought I was hammered

Sure, it's

possible

ye really thought ye were hammered. I am saying I don't think that's the case. And yer reaction looked extremely fake, like ye knew ye had not been hammered and ye were playing it up.

I don't understand why it's so hard to believe that Tammy thought she was actually hammered like, have you ever been fake hammered before? because,

if you have you should know that "was that hammer fake?" a question a person asks themselves right away

Be there something missing from this sentence? I've never been fake-hammered before (I've only been lynched once in recent memory, and that was when there was a cop guilty on me), but yes, the first thing I'd do if someone "hammered" me is check whether I was actually hammered. But that's because I'm methodical like that.

SiAm is to me what Tammy is to you, I think so, we should probably put them both off to the side, for now. The two people I had asked tammy about where my top two town-reads and I guess my tentative townread on PA/Mhork would drop to scum IF mala/rach are town

If we not be lynching Tammy, I want to lynch SC today. I can make a case, but it's weak and I was hoping they'd post some content I could actually form a more accurate read on, but so far they be lost at sea, hidden in the mists.

[Si and Am]

I'm not really liking Ygg Union at all

[Athenas Fury]

Well then you and I have a very different idea of noise.

<snip>

Let the records show that the snipped part is what I consider noise.

I be not interested in ye waffling on about yesterday and yer whaleshit reasons for voting Nacho. I asked about whether ye'd gone back and looked at the wagon that developed on ye (because I have and a lot of the players on it either look town or have flipped town), I asked whether ye'd gone back and looked at how the Nacho wagon developed (because even if people were sheeping mollie, there were different opinions there and there's more to it than just the PFR thing).

well latida. So you're basically now getting after me for not scum hunting properly? Is that it? And if this is muffin you can fuck the fuck right off. You've already make it abundantly clear that you have absolutely no respect for how I play mafia and am a shit player, so it's so fucking laughable that you're now actually criticizing me for not scum hunting your way when you already know I don't scum hunt properly according to your logic.

Here's a little hint for you and probably yet another reason for you to think I'm shit at this game. I don't look at wagons. Almost never. The closest I came in recent memory to actually looking at a wagon was the cross town game when Vi got mislynched day one and I was arguing against the wagon and I thought that Nacho or Llamarble were scum who wasn't fighting against a wagon as hard as they should have. Other than that, nope, except when I'm alive in lylo. Oh and you want more reasons to know how fucking shit I am? I don't pay attention to votes, or vote counts. Sometimes I spend whole damn days without a single vote anywhere. Yep, I'm that bad at mafia.

So, just fucking lynch me or leave me alone. I'm so sick and tired of dealing with your sanctimonious you think you're better than everyone else and if someone isn't scumhutning your way you act like a shit. I'm done.

anyone who's played with me more than once can't with a good conscience claim that it's impossible I thought I was hammered

Sure, it's

possible

ye really thought ye were hammered. I am saying I don't think that's the case. And yer reaction looked extremely fake, like ye knew ye had not been hammered and ye were playing it up.

You're wrong.

I don't understand why it's so hard to believe that Tammy thought she was actually hammered like, have you ever been fake hammered before? because,

if you have you should know that "was that hammer fake?" a question a person asks themselves right away

Be there something missing from this sentence? I've never been fake-hammered before (I've only been lynched once in recent memory, and that was when there was a cop guilty on me), but yes, the first thing I'd do if someone "hammered" me is check whether I was actually hammered. But that's because I'm methodical like that.

Yippee well now that we've established I'm not fucking you. I'm not fucking you.

[Athenas Fury]

Oh and sometimes wagons on town are town driven, and if that's the basis of your argument, I'm just going to sit in the corner and laugh my fucking ass off.

[Athenas Fury]

I definitely don't like Mhorks last post, because I don't see why he thinks he has the right to say that, at all

What part?

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

So you're basically now getting after me for not scum hunting properly? Is that it? And if this is muffin you can fuck the fuck right off. You've already make it abundantly clear that you have absolutely no respect for how I play mafia and am a shit player, so it's so fucking laughable that you're now actually criticizing me for not scum hunting your way when you already know I don't scum hunt properly according to your logic.

(1) Nae, that not be what I'm saying. I'm saying ye called D1 noise, I'm telling ye there were important parts of D1 (like the wagons and how they formed) that were not noise, so yer excuse for ignoring stuff that happened D1 is invalid.

(2) Ye be breaching ongoing game rules. And I think yer doing this because yer scum here, but I can't talk about it. How clever ye be.

I don't look at wagons

How do ye assess who is and isn't scum if ye don't look at who votes for who and for what reasons?

Also this statement seems rather contradictory to yer stance on Nacho D1 (i.e. that he was scum for pushing yer wagon). Obviously ye do think it is important to assess who votes for who and for what reasons, but only when it is convenient for ye?

[Athenas Fury]

So you're basically now getting after me for not scum hunting properly? Is that it? And if this is muffin you can fuck the fuck right off. You've already make it abundantly clear that you have absolutely no respect for how I play mafia and am a shit player, so it's so fucking laughable that you're now actually criticizing me for not scum hunting your way when you already know I don't scum hunt properly according to your logic.

(1) Nae, that not be what I'm saying. I'm saying ye called D1 noise, I'm telling ye there were important parts of D1 (like the wagons and how they formed) that were not noise, so yer excuse for ignoring stuff that happened D1 is invalid.

(2) Ye be breaching ongoing game rules. And I think yer doing this because yer scum here, but I can't talk about it. How clever ye be.

I don't look at wagons

How do ye assess who is and isn't scum if ye don't look at who votes for who and for what reasons?

Also this statement seems rather contradictory to yer stance on Nacho D1 (i.e. that he was scum for pushing yer wagon). Obviously ye do think it is important to assess who votes for who and for what reasons, but only when it is convenient for ye?

I'm not breaching ongoing games. You think I"m horrible at mafia and have no respect for me at all so why you're asking me why I don't do things your way is fucking shit. Your making shit up.

I don't look at fucking wagons and you trying to draw a dumb ass connection to wondering why I didn't know I was being voted for and someone was pushing me for a shit reason is fucking shit and you fucking know that.

But, again, I repeat just fucking lynch me please. No one is ever going to kill me and if I have tho read one more stupid post form your sanctimoniuos ass I'm going to throw myself out into the polar vortex in hopes of getting hypothermia.

So, please everyone in your next post vote the fuck out of me. I don't think I can make it any clearer that I don't want to read another fucking post form the higher than holier than though wanna be fucking pirate. PLEASE DO THIS.

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

I'm not breaching ongoing games. You think I"m horrible at mafia

Uh huh

If ye not be breaching ongoing game rules, quote anywhere I've ever said this or admit you're lying.

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

Or hey, just reference where I've said that about ye if it's not a breach of ongoing game rules

[Athenas Fury]

BY THE WAY YOU HAVE TREATED ME IN GAMES I KNOW YOU THINK I'M HORRIBLE AT MAFIA. AND MAYBE PART OF THAT COMES FROM THE WAY YOU ARE CURRENTLY TREATING ME IN ANOTHER GAME TOO, BUT ME MENTIONING THAT I KNOW WHAT YOU THINK OF ME IS NOT ME TALKING ABOUT ONGOING GAMES.

YOU ARE TRYING TO GET ME MODKILLED.

BUT YOU KNOW WHAT.

mod replace me

I have no desire whatsoever to play with this sanctimonious better than everyone else "pirate"

[Generically Purple]

Tammy, please don't do this

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

Ye be referencing something that I cannot defend, cannot talk about, cannot explain the context of (and why ye be blatantly lying about what I actually said), and cannot talk about how it relates to this game and why I think ye be bringing it up here.

Yes, that is a breach of ongoing game rules.

[Generically Purple]

Be there something missing from this sentence? I've never been fake-hammered before (I've only been lynched once in recent memory, and that was when there was a cop guilty on me), but yes, the first thing I'd do if someone "hammered" me is check whether I was actually hammered. But that's because I'm methodical like that.

ok, well she is a hellofalot closer to how I play than how you play, and checking if the hammer is legit is the last thing I would do

I mean, if someone faked-hammered me as scum, I'm very likely to admit that I'm scum. No joke.

pedit: stop

[Generically Purple]

and I don't look at wagons, either

[Generically Purple]

Ugh I'm sorry I'm still trying to hit PA at the sake time to sync reads though.

But I really don't buy Athena scum for those reason, RPD. Her emotions make sense from a townie point of view.

Athena, can you please just give us something? Your vague reads? Anything to prove you're actually playing that game.

this entire post, I don't see how he has the right to say this entire post especially since you are more involved in this game than he is