The Fall of Gondolin Mafia: Game Over (The Tale of Gondolin)

[sirdanilot]

why? you look like a good target yourself

Because of what I said yesterday. We still have a scummy, useless VT claimed detrimental to the town person hopping around.

And lol how am I a viable target?

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

chamber attempted to flip a wagon from Aegor to me. I'm Town, and while he probably wouldn't have lynched me, it would be some amazing noise for scum to flourish in Today. Elscouta would have made a much better alternative--quiet one, logical, not that likely to be protected if JacobSavage is Town.

The kill makes sense coming from you.

The chamberkill does make sense coming from me. But it just generally makes sense - something that should seem obvious to you if you're gonna put forward a name like Elscouta (who, for the record, is probably scum).

Vote: Espeonage

[Tierce]

Fairly sure that I wasn't in any danger of being NKd with how Yesterday turned out.

elaborate please? there really wasn't any special person who was likely to be killed instead of you, or was there? who would you kill if you were scum 'with how Yesterday turned out'?...

(also any reason you capitalized the Y in yesterday?)

nvm you capitalize T later too in Today you jsut do that..

I capitalize game Days to be in contrast to real life days.

Being a late counterwagon to Town made me an obvious non-kill target, especially since chamber was Town. See: beautiful noise to be left alive for Today. Which is why it doesn't make much sense that chamber, who had claimed vanilla, is dead--unless the person he can read best is scum. See: CES. Like... from the end of D1, I'd put

myself

as more likely to be killed by a generic scumteam than chamber, and I didn't think I was a target at all.

I'm not terribly attached to this vote, though,

because lynching CES would drain my interest in the rest of the game

. I want some words out of a stone.

Talk to me about ABR, CES. And do you really think scum are trying to pull a Pillar-of-the-Community attitude regarding the Aegor flip

and

doing it as the very first post of D2? Seems like a far too reckless move for Espeonage-scum, and one that is far too easy for you to capitalize on.


For the record, for everyone going down that road, this game was reviewed by Vi. Scum have safeclaims. Scum know that "Gondolin" is Town. Use your brains.

[JacobSavage]

Ummm this Esp wagon...

No still not feeling it.

[Natirasha]

I find the Espeonage wagon curious, as well.

I'm starting to think of picking up chamber's banner.

[MafiaSSK]

I think the Tierce wagon is the best at the moment, still. But I need more time to rethink over who is scum.

[Shadoweh]

That first sentence in combination with my earlier weak read on him makes me thing Shadow is town.
I think that the TIP wagon evaporated because deadline was really pushing, and it caused people to jump to more viable wagons, which is a correct line of thought. I never understood why the TIP wagon formed anyway, though, so I'll be glad if you explain it to me.

Also this is definitely not RVS V2.0; not at all. ActionDan was my preferred vote up to the place where Aegor started being stupid, and the flip & NK didn't do much to change that; his posts really kept sucking, so I'm back to that read. remind me later to check out again about Natirasha.

Dissatisfaction I imagine. GUT only carries people so far, but I've been thinking about what bothers me overnight. Two things mainly.

First point: MafiaSSK jump. This is mostly because I got a good read from SSK from his response to that superfast wagon to him, but TIP's vote and response just felt like he was trying to push it over the edge. The argument against SSK was based on him lurking but posting in other games, which TIP kept pressing after his V/LA was announced. The 'CES vote out of nowhere' is an unfair argument, SSK was gone for 6 days and didn't have a major scumread before then, why wouldn't he have a new outlook after rereading?

Second point: Everything After Everyone Ignored The SSK Case. Or as I would call it, acting like this is a TV show he's watching for his amusement. His response to being run up was to vote his biggest town read for funsies for god's sake. I didn't want to make a big deal out of this before giving him a chance to post something constructive today but considering his opening post today I am not imagining there'll be much more to see in the future.

Also the second remark wasn't directed at you, but I don't think ADan sucks this game.

Ummm this Esp wagon...

No still not feeling it.

Hi this isn't a pronouncement of who you were protecting and why you're still alive today instead of dying for the cause.

[Plum]

It has been told that Huor the brother of Húrin was slain in the Battle of Unnumbered Tears; and in the winter of that year Rían his wife bore a child in the wilds of Mithrim, and he was named Tuor, and was taken to foster by Annael of the Grey-elves, who yet lived in those hills. Now when Tuor was sixteen years old the Elves were minded to leave the caves of Androth where they dwelt, and to make their way secretly to the Havens of Sirion in the distant south; but they were assailed by Orcs and Easterlings before they made good their escape, and Tuor was taken captive and enslaved by Lorgan, chief of the Easterlings of Hithlum. For three years he endured that thraldom, but at the end of that time he escaped; and returning to the caves of Androth he dwelt there alone, and did such great hurt to the Easterlings that Lorgan set a price upon his head.

VOTE COUNT 2:1

ActionDan

- 1 - shos

Espeonage

- 3 - sirdanilot, SpyreX, Cogito Ergo Sum

Tierce

- 1 - ActionDan

Cogito Ergo Sum

- 1 - Tierce

Not voting (10)

: JacobSavage, Natirasha, MafiaSSK, Espeonage, Albert B. Rampage, Desperado, Elscouta, PeregrineV, TheIrishPope, Shadoweh

With 16 players alive it takes

9

votes to lynch.
Deadline is in (expired on 2014-02-05 00:00:01)

[TheIrishPope]

holy shit it hasn't even been 48 hours and Shadoweh already determined my supposed trajectory in the game?
sirdan is town because of the "lol why am I a viable target" defense (phoneposting so fuck quotes)
tierce and ces... impossible that the two of them are scum, but one could be, leaning on ces because he hasn't done anything.
the night kill? my role pm says gondolin, but I only read godfather and left it at that
how funny would it be if chamber was scum? hehe
I'm going to ISO him to see reads

[TheIrishPope]

I expect better from you.

Okay. I know you go look through old games. I have a tendency to get vote-happy at deadline.

I said it for everyone else's benefit in case I die. I have a tendency of doing that often in games where I'm actually motivated.

oho
ohohoho
it's nat
VOTE: natirasha

[Elscouta]

I am surprised I am the only one that doesn't buy Maeglin town. Yes, he flipped in green, but "strange innocence", "Godfather", "house of the mole", "mole uncovered", "i'm a ninja miller cop-vig", "Maeglin" (aka the guy that brought the Fall of Gondolin but that everyone was convinced of his innocence) points to me that something very fishy was going on. Based on flavor, i would definitely see some mix of Recruitable Townie / Traitor / Death Godfather there (note how much Aegor claimed ability makes sense on a Traitor Godfather if you replace "direct town to kill" by "direct mafia to kill"). Unfortunately, without any way to determine whether he had knowledge of mafia names, or whether mafia has knowledge of him, i don't see much to be gained by trying to follow this theory and analyzing the wagon.

"you didn't know green was the town color" is absolute bullshit. I mean, seriously? If the town color was purple with stripes of yellow, i would have understood, but there...

---

At least one major wagon yesterday was on scum.

That ebb and flow and the inability for anything to really push through until the deadline looming power dive means ~something~ was stopping the others from going through.

Given the number of wagons that occured yesterday, we would be a pretty terrible and unlucky town if that was not the case, If we are analyzing purely the ebb and flow and assume that Aegor was either town or thought by the mafia to be town, the way the wagon suddenly snowballed while there was so much resistance on Tierce and TIP at the same time could mean that one of these two are scum.

---

Regarding the NKill of chamber, it makes a good amount of sense. Nobody seemed to suspect him of being scum, and he was trying to get stuff done. <wifom>It could also be seen as Tierce removing an attacker, or scum wanting to incriminate Tierce</wifom>. I'm not seeing much more there. And I agree JacobSavage needs to tell us his target.

---

I kinda still want to lynch TIP actually, I still have no idea why his wagon died instead of getting run over by Jacob escapees, and he's clearly here and contributing as much as he was yesterday.. This feels really lethargic actually, like did everyone forget what they wanted to do yesterday besides jump onto the pain train?

Agreed.

Vote: TheIrishPope

. For d1 reasons and for wagon dynamics of end of day.

[JacobSavage]

CES, why? Because I felt Chamber was probably going to be WIFOM'd by scum (why kill the easily lynchable townie) and CES's actions towards the end of the day made him very town.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Which is why it doesn't make much sense that chamber, who had claimed vanilla, is dead--unless the person he can read best is scum. See: CES.

He only claimed vanilla to me and that wasn't serious (did you not get the joke?).

Talk to me about ABR, CES. And do you really think scum are trying to pull a Pillar-of-the-Community attitude regarding the Aegor flip and doing it as the very first post of D2? Seems like a far too reckless move for Espeonage-scum, and one that is far too easy for you to capitalize on.

ABR hasn't said anything in the neighbor topic, so I don't really know anything more than you do (which I assume is very little). Espeonage has always seemed somewhat impulsive to me (I think you kinda have to be if you play Quidditch). The fact that it's the very first post points to a pre-planned fake town tell more than fearlessness to me anyway.

Unvote, vote: TIP

[TheIrishPope]

Go for the easy lynchbait that's obviously town!

[TheIrishPope]

but to be completely honest, I know today is not the day for me. not even tomorrow. you won't lynch me anytime soon.

[Albert B. Rampage]

What neighbor topic?

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Code: Select all

This one, obviously?

[Shadoweh]

I'm guessing you're not actually neighbours, so it doesn't matter.
Tippy, every day is going to be your day unless you start playing the game like a normal person. For example, anything besides one statement from night spec that points to Nat.
Also so far you're doing great at keeping up my what the hell are you even talking about projections, we see high raises in WTF stocks coming.

Does CES as a kill choice make sense to anyone besides Jacob?

[PeregrineV]

CES, why? Because I felt Chamber was probably going to be WIFOM'd by scum (why kill the easily lynchable townie) and CES's actions towards the end of the day made him very town.

Shadow has a point. Maybe show the posts were CES' actions "made him very town".

And why you think chamber would have been "easily lynchable".

[TheIrishPope]

I'm guessing you're not actually neighbours, so it doesn't matter.
Tippy, every day is going to be your day unless you start playing the game like a normal person. For example, anything besides one statement from night spec that points to Nat.
Also so far you're doing great at keeping up my what the hell are you even talking about projections, we see high raises in WTF stocks coming.

Does CES as a kill choice make sense to anyone besides Jacob?

I am playing like a normal person, just that you choose to obviate what I say because...
Because...

[sirdanilot]

I really don't see why Tip would be scum. It all just looks like play style to me.

Esp is where the lynch should be at.

[Elscouta]

I really don't see why Tip would be scum. It all just looks like play style to me.

Hrmf. You lured me into a meta analysis, and I somewhat agree (on a side note, your wiki is quite out of date, TIP). And now i'm not even sure if I want to lynch you anymore because it would be so good for sirscumilot to let another TIP wagon develop.

Which means I'm a sad panda. I don't feel like lynching Tierce just because she was a counterwagon to someone I'm not even sure was town. Jacob has still a bit of time on its "doctor gets out of lynch free card", Natirasha might as well be a TIP clone, Esp lynch is meh, and I still don't have any clue about why people are suspecting CES.

The only good thing is that Shadoweh is town. That's nice to know.

Unvote

--

On a reread sho's #951 tinged all kind of bells :
- how is a claimed ninja miller cop-vig a "bad town" role. If he was really that, we lost one of the most powerful role that has been seen on MS.net for a long time. If he was lying, how do you know he was a bad role? or that he was town?
- the "surprised by the NK" and the "so what know? :/" feels bad.

@sho's : What is the case on ActionDan?

[TheIrishPope]

Yeah too many games to add now so might as well leave it in its old form >.>

[shos]

self reminder to read 981+

[TheIrishPope]

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=31117 my best scumgame