Xenosaga Mafia (Game Over)

[Cabd]

Pagetop heh

[Cabd]

No but really, mastin, several of your stances are very unsubstantiated and it bugs me.

[Cephrir]

17. Skullduggery
^Also town. Meta points help, but I also found that Skull's posting regardless of meta still looked town overall, because it didn't feel forced, it didn't feel faked; it felt like natural town posting.

Please enlighten me on said meta

Still waiting for reasons for the weird stupid aegor me kaze triangle as it appears to make no sense and nothing you have said precludes all of us from being town, as indeed i suspect we are

[Skullduggery]

Alright, I'm going to keep this Brian wagon in the back of my mind for when/if he eventually dies and flips.

UNVOTE:

If Brian flips Town, I'd be more inclined to look at who

wasn't

on his wagon to find Scum since I imagine that Scum off the wagon wouldn't want to touch it with a ten-foot pole.

If Brian flips Scum, then it would make more sense to look at the early voters on his wagon to see if there were any partners who casually voted for him without realizing that it was going to turn into an L-1 wagon so quickly.

I wouldn't have voted for Brian if I didn't think he was Scum, so I'm looking more closely at the second scenario right now. The first three people on the Brian wagon were Kaze, Pieguyn, and Flandre. Of those three, Flandre is making me the most uncomfortable. I see nothing but fluff, a naked vote, and what looks like an attempt to produce content just for the sake of producing content.

VOTE: Flandre Scarlet

General knowledge: skulduggery is really good at looking town but has poor scum hunting skills

What do you hope to accomplish by slandering and discrediting me so early? Are you afraid of people listening to me? If so, why?

@Skull: wow, hostility, geez. You're allowed to interact with people, but I think you're taking things too seriously is all.

First you say that all my questions and observations are "pointless," but now you're saying that I'm taking things too seriously. Which is it?

You said you didn't like my vote on Brian, but I haven't seen you singling out any other Brian votes. Why is my vote in particular offensive to you?

I do not have any power to neighbor you with, so you have to neighbor me, okay?

I would if I could.

Why wouldn't I be interested (not so much the role, but the alignment)? The idea is to flip scum, not town.

If the idea is to flip Scum, then why did you bring up the Innocent Child and Super Saint roles specifically when talking to Muffin?

The reasons that Cephrir mentioned in 62. The vote especially bothered me, although I must say that the giant wagon was amusing.

Same question I asked Cephrir: why was my vote for Brian offensive but the other nine were perfectly okay?

Aside from finding it "amusing" (which tells us nothing), what do you think of the Brian wagon? Do you object to it? Do you think it was Town-driven or Scum-driven?

Cephrir's aversion to the wagon feels bad. It feels like scum-WKing-town to me.

Can you go into a bit more detail about why you find Cephrir scummy? He's a tentative Town read of mine since his suspicion of me seems to be coming from a Town mindset, so I'm interested in hearing counter-arguments to either solidify or change this read, and I believe you're the first person to express suspicion of Cephrir.

Are ya now?

I like Skullduggery for town. I thought I'd have warm fuzzies about Kaze by now, but I don't.

Are you doing what Aegor and I have been doing? (Keeping this vague, so I hope you know what I'm talking about.)

Yes, selfvote was an option.

Why?

Also, I'm going to become increasingly pissy until someone gives me a real reason for thinking Skull is town. Or you, yes you, can nip this in the bud now by telling me! Limited time offer!

Because my role PM says I'm Town.

Consider this bud nipped.

11. MafiaSSK
^Also town. This is SSK's townmeta, through-and-through, and his posting has been goodposting, too.

The only thing that SSK has done so far is vote for Pieguyn. Is that all it takes to be considered a rock-solid Town read or do you have other reasons to be so confident about his alignment?

Please enlighten me on said meta

I keep my wiki page up-to-date. If you want to know more about my meta, you know what to do.

[sangres]

Are you doing what Aegor and I have been doing? (Keeping this vague, so I hope you know what I'm talking about.)

Maybe so. I seem to be coming from a different perspective, if so.

[pieguyn]

If there really is a Super Saint in this game, why do you say that it wouldn't affect Brian?

bc he was only the 2nd (?) vote on the wagon and supersaint only kills the person who hammered

Skull is town, Kaze is scum.

explain Kaze scum. how sure are you of Skull town when there's no scumgames to compare it against to make sure she can't fake?

Kind of. I got wagonned for backtracking off of you, so probably town.

no you got wagoned for mentioning a super-saint for no reason. scum are more aware of super-saints and you're the first to bring it up

Why not? It looks like a good wagon to me with all them sheep votes. Regardless of what I flip, I think you guys can nail the entire scum-team with the information we've garnered thus far.

what's with this reaction? you just sit there and go "oh, I tried to RVS wagon Jesus, poor me" and then make sarcastic comments like this p much invalidating the whole point of the pressure wagon. it seems scum motivated (you're relatively sure you won't get lynched via this wagon so your first intent is to get said wagon off you). explain plz

pieguy is actually scum

care to explain why?

Yeah I really did not get this. I feel like anyone should be flipping out rather than continuing to joke about that wagon, which personally I thought got way too damn serious. I can maybe see this as a scum attempt to seem calm in order to avoid reacting poorly. I'm not sure I see anyone naturally reacting this way.

this

Are ya now?

I like Skullduggery for town. I thought I'd have warm fuzzies about Kaze by now, but I don't.

what's giving you reservations about Kaze?

I get the feeling I'm just going to end up sheeping your read on him bc I can't read him for shit. the way he's playing seems like what I know of his towngame, but I'm a bit biased bc we saw the same thing re:supersaint comment and I find the town motivation in his actions is p transparent if you look for it

also is it just me or was your entrance weak as fuck?

wall

mastin, this is your scumgame right? you basically just walked up and immediately put all your pieces in place. this is not a behavior I would expect from town-you. the way I see it, town-you stays light and waffles a lot, and then sometime later when your picture of the game state is correct you figure it out and start owning the fk out of the scum. this doesn't seem like what you're doing here. here it seems like you're trying to create an air of confidence which is smth I know I've read you do as scum

not to mention you voted me before you even finished reading the thread. if you hadn't read the thread why would you park your vote on me so soon?

also, fyi I'm taking it as a scumclaim if you don't townread me once I get going. so you might wanna drop this now

Oh!

Just realized.

Fuck yeah, this game's a town win.

BRO is town.
Nacho is town.

They never lose.

We win.

I'm also feeling great this game, which helps. I feel like the town players here are already in the process of synching up, just like last Xeno game, and that the scum are trapped on the outside for the most part. I generally don't feel like instantly flipping the switch, but this game is going so damn awesomely that I kinda sorta feel like I almost could flip it right here and now and be that pseudo-scumhunting-god.

holy fuck you really are scum

vote: mastin

also, where are you currently at with zmuffin?

There is not nearly enough evidence to support either of these reads

Vote mastin

close enough to fixed to be readable

get out of my head. it feels to me like he's trying to appear more confident than he really is to get people to listen to him and this doesn't seem at all like what I know of his towngame. what do you think of mastin's tone? also, thoughts on sangres?

No but really, mastin, several of your stances are very unsubstantiated and it bugs me.

wanna lynch mastin with me?

also, can I get confirmation on the meta I'm using with him? the way I see it scum him tries to appear really confident to get people to listen to him and it looks like that's what he's doing here

also, what's your current thoughts on ffery?

[pieguyn]

@ffery:

thoughts on mastin? also what's your current read on Cabd?

[Flandre Scarlet]

In post 205, Flandre Scarlet wrote:
Yes, selfvote was an option.

Why?

Because it's RVS. Is there a reason it shouldn't be an option?

[sangres]

what's giving you reservations about Kaze?

I get the feeling I'm just going to end up sheeping your read on him bc I can't read him for shit. the way he's playing seems like what I know of his towngame, but I'm a bit biased bc we saw the same thing re:supersaint comment and I find the town motivation in his actions is p transparent if you look for it

I usually get a resounding town read off his first 2-3 posts. I didn't this time. There is definitely is something different about the entrance to this game.

also is it just me or was your entrance weak as fuck?

If my entrance was weak, then my entrance is always weak.

@ffery:

thoughts on mastin? also what's your current read on Cabd?

I want Nacho's thoughts on Mastin. And then I'm going to remind myself that in the Walking Dead game, I was having misgivings about Mastin from the start.

Current read is as town a read as Cabd is ever going to get this early on day 1.

[pieguyn]

I usually get a resounding town read off his first 2-3 posts. I didn't this time. There is definitely is something different about the entrance to this game.

anything specific that feels different?

and do you think this can be attributed to his alignment as opposed to it being a large game? mb I'm just biased bc I'm bad at larges, but the dynamic in large games is definitely different than smaller games and I find my play is really different from small to large games

I want Nacho's thoughts on Mastin. And then I'm going to remind myself that in the Walking Dead game, I was having misgivings about Mastin from the start.

what happened in that game and did it have anything to do with his tone?

do you disagree that scum-mastin tends to come across more arrogant and/or confident?

[MafiaSSK]

No but really, mastin, several of your stances are very unsubstantiated and it bugs me.

It's Mastin. Don't doubt the reads.

In other news, I totally forgot about this game. Time to catch up!

[Cephrir]

Alright, I'm going to keep this Brian wagon in the back of my mind for when/if he eventually dies and flips.

UNVOTE:

If Brian flips Town, I'd be more inclined to look at who

wasn't

on his wagon to find Scum since I imagine that Scum off the wagon wouldn't want to touch it with a ten-foot pole.

If Brian flips Scum, then it would make more sense to look at the early voters on his wagon to see if there were any partners who casually voted for him without realizing that it was going to turn into an L-1 wagon so quickly.

I wouldn't have voted for Brian if I didn't think he was Scum, so I'm looking more closely at the second scenario right now. The first three people on the Brian wagon were Kaze, Pieguyn, and Flandre. Of those three, Flandre is making me the most uncomfortable. I see nothing but fluff, a naked vote, and what looks like an attempt to produce content just for the sake of producing content.

VOTE: Flandre Scarlet

You're going to be a moonlogic person, aren't you. I mean yes Scarlet does kinda suck so far, but isolating the first three seems really arbitrary. Why is it the case that scum would be on the beginning of their buddy's wagon? Those votes were more RVS than the others if anything.

@Skull: wow, hostility, geez. You're allowed to interact with people, but I think you're taking things too seriously is all.

First you say that all my questions and observations are "pointless," but now you're saying that I'm taking things too seriously. Which is it?

You said you didn't like my vote on Brian, but I haven't seen you singling out any other Brian votes. Why is my vote in particular offensive to you?

First point: Both! Those things aren't mutually exclusive. But I'm starting to get that maybe this is just sort of your thing.

Second point: You seemed more confident he was scum than I felt was reasonable. Though as you put it to Aegor, I don't know that all nine of the others were necessarily okay, I just can't pick out which one(s) are actually the bad ones.

Cephrir's aversion to the wagon feels bad. It feels like scum-WKing-town to me.

Can you go into a bit more detail about why you find Cephrir scummy? He's a tentative Town read of mine since his suspicion of me seems to be coming from a Town mindset, so I'm interested in hearing counter-arguments to either solidify or change this read, and I believe you're the first person to express suspicion of Cephrir.

I'm trying to resist getting warm fuzzies for you from this because I know how susceptible I am to townreading people just because they get me right.

Also, I'm going to become increasingly pissy until someone gives me a real reason for thinking Skull is town. Or you, yes you, can nip this in the bud now by telling me! Limited time offer!

Because my role PM says I'm Town.

Consider this bud nipped.

I meant someone other than you
I feel like there was probably there was someone in there just saying they had a townread on you just because everyone else was.

11. MafiaSSK
^Also town. This is SSK's townmeta, through-and-through, and his posting has been goodposting, too.

The only thing that SSK has done so far is vote for Pieguyn. Is that all it takes to be considered a rock-solid Town read or do you have other reasons to be so confident about his alignment?

:goodposting:

Please enlighten me on said meta

I keep my wiki page up-to-date. If you want to know more about my meta, you know what to do.

If it becomes important enough to me I'll try. It takes a really good reason to get me to metadive when I could just hope for a summary.

Kind of. I got wagonned for backtracking off of you, so probably town.

no you got wagoned for mentioning a super-saint for no reason. scum are more aware of super-saints and you're the first to bring it up

Oh. Somehow I didn't catch that. Thanks.

There is not nearly enough evidence to support either of these reads

Vote mastin

close enough to fixed to be readable

get out of my head. it feels to me like he's trying to appear more confident than he really is to get people to listen to him and this doesn't seem at all like what I know of his towngame. what do you think of mastin's tone? also, thoughts on sangres?

I feel like he's trying to look like he's tryharding to squeeze into the townblock by default. But there is just no substance. I would agree with your characterization re: aggressive/confident, though I don't particularly know his meta. It would be really useful if that was the case (ie he would work the way I do, which would help me figure out what to look for). I don't have any read on sangres yet, I'm going to just sit here and wait for them to obvtown. Then again, they kinda had me snowed in 167 because I gave them a pass too quickly. I did have some doubts there though, I guess I should just count my doubts about them as like triple.

[MafiaSSK]

who the hell are you

VOTE: brian

I don't like orc's vote here. It was a terrible L-1 vote that he should have been aware of.

PEdit: Wow Ceph looks town.

[sangres]

I usually get a resounding town read off his first 2-3 posts. I didn't this time. There is definitely is something different about the entrance to this game.

anything specific that feels different?

Yes. That's all I'm saying for now because who knows, this might turn out to be a meta tell.

and do you think this can be attributed to his alignment as opposed to it being a large game? mb I'm just biased bc I'm bad at larges, but the dynamic in large games is definitely different than smaller games and I find my play is really different from small to large games

Possibly.

I want Nacho's thoughts on Mastin. And then I'm going to remind myself that in the Walking Dead game, I was having misgivings about Mastin from the start.

what happened in that game and did it have anything to do with his tone?

He seemed really hesitant to start with in that game, and I thought he reached out to me/Sangres pretty strongly as a town read, which was not something he'd done with me in prior games. I wasn't sure how much of that was a reach-out to Nacho rather than me. So, from a behavioral perspective this game isn't so similar. It's just that I'll be less likely to put away misgivings completely if Nacho thinks he's town this time.

do you disagree that scum-mastin tends to come across more arrogant and/or confident?

It's not true of the two games that I played with scum-Mastin. And in my prior meta-forays, I found him to be arrogant and confident in some of his town games. But, I don't constantly re-meta or read ALL the games like some players I could mention.

[MafiaSSK]

[10] Brian Skies (Kazekirimaru, pieguyn, Flandre Scarlet, Skullduggery, Kagami, Varsoon, zMuffinMan, Metal Sonic, Brian Skies, orcinus_theoriginal)

Yeeeeeeeeah, thinking Metal Sonic and Orc might be the later-scum additions to the wagon. With pie and maaaaaaaaaaaybe Kaze as early-starters. The wagon's likely not going to have all the scum on it, and I'd wager probably no more than three. (There being either 4 or 5 in the game.) Could feasibly be as low as two, though I'm not going lower than that.

Definitely think that one of or perhaps both of Kaze/Metal Sonic are scum. It's difficult to tell if Kaze is bussing, Kaze's town and Metal Sonic's scum, or Kaze's scum and Metal Sonic's town. I don't think they're both town, but that's all I've got right now.

Hey Mastin and I's reads are syncing! This is a good sign!

[MafiaSSK]

Cabd, what about this game do you think makes you feel motivated?

[MafiaSSK]

Pieguys walls on this page feel town. But I dunno.

Eh, sure.
UNVOTE:

[pieguyn]

what's your current read on Ceph?

and how sure are you of Skull town? the only thing giving me reservations about her is that it's a meta-based read and she doesn't have any scumgames to verify she can't fake as scum. I assume you don't think she can fake this kind of posting as scum right

[Cabd]

Cabd, what about this game do you think makes you feel motivated?

Wouldn't you like to know.

[Cabd]

VOTE: mastin

[pieguyn]

I feel like he's trying to look like he's tryharding to squeeze into the townblock by default. But there is just no substance. I would agree with your characterization re: aggressive/confident, though I don't particularly know his meta. It would be really useful if that was the case (ie he would work the way I do, which would help me figure out what to look for). I don't have any read on sangres yet, I'm going to just sit here and wait for them to obvtown. Then again, they kinda had me snowed in 167 because I gave them a pass too quickly. I did have some doubts there though, I guess I should just count my doubts about them as like triple.

what do you think of 233?

Pieguys walls on this page feel town. But I dunno.

Eh, sure.
UNVOTE:

what was the basis for your initial scumread on me?

what do you make of mastin townreading you based on 3 posts? do you two usually read each other that well or

[pieguyn]

@Cabd:

first one is a open question for you as well. also, do you agree with my reasons for mastin-scum, or is there smth else to it?

[sangres]

what's your current read on Ceph?

and how sure are you of Skull town? the only thing giving me reservations about her is that it's a meta-based read and she doesn't have any scumgames to verify she can't fake as scum. I assume you don't think she can fake this kind of posting as scum right

Who is this addressed to?

[pieguyn]

you

[Cephrir]

I feel like he's trying to look like he's tryharding to squeeze into the townblock by default. But there is just no substance. I would agree with your characterization re: aggressive/confident, though I don't particularly know his meta. It would be really useful if that was the case (ie he would work the way I do, which would help me figure out what to look for). I don't have any read on sangres yet, I'm going to just sit here and wait for them to obvtown. Then again, they kinda had me snowed in 167 because I gave them a pass too quickly. I did have some doubts there though, I guess I should just count my doubts about them as like triple.

what do you think of 233?

I don't really take issue with it. ffery does start pretty slow in my experience, and the Cabd paranoia is not a tell, it would just be a scumclaim if they weren't.