Newbie 1471: Italian Ice (Game Over!)

[ika]

I make short posts, yes, but that's not because I'm disinterested. I think you're scum, I have stated why and placed my vote. I don't have much to comment right now, if you want me to explain something or want to ask something feel free.

why do you tunnel him so badly and want to stall the rob lynch?

[ika]

tier, lets play a game

lets say we lynch bjc and he flips town.

who would your next strongest suspect be and why. Why are you so unwilling to lynch an inactive player who has an equal chance at being scum?

[bjc]

Answer the above, answer why you're trying so hard to be anti-town, and answer why I'm scum; you haven't done the third ever.

UNVOTE:


I have to say 279 is incredibly scummy but I'm just gonna take one step back now before hopping around even more.

To my knowledge, this is the ONLY thing you've essentially based your vote on.

Cool. Why? /Tiershift

The above being said, I actually feel a lot better about this than rob.

The most major points against bjc, in my opinion, are his complete flexibility, and lack of proactivity when it comes to scumhunting. He's been an almost completely passive recipient of the game. He posts, but many of them give the feeling of "I have posted content, now you guys can use this bone to go away and ignore me." How much follow up has he had on

anything

he's done this game? I'm not going to lie, he's got posts that are content-heavy in terms of giving reads and opinions, but almost all of them are one-offs. Like a butterfly settling on a flower without pollinating. Drop here, deposit opinion, fly away and deposit opinion elsewhere, rinse repeat. There's no commitment to anything, and there's a line between having shifting reads and a long list of votes by convenience. I feel like he's crossed that line.

This. It's good. It made me think.
And now the lazy emerald vote which doesn't go much further than 'no content'

And now, without any real explanation, you point to RF's post. Cool. Now build a case against me. /Tiershift


Everything since then has essentially been one liners, a refusal to further explain something or cooperate, and the occasional multi-thought reply.

Cool. /Tiershift

[bjc]

EBWOP: The above post of mine is solely directed at TS; the "address the above" is referring to ika's question on tunneling.

[TierShift]

Because he has offered nothing to relieve my suspicions and keeps acting survivalistic as fuck.

I don't stall the robw lynch, I disapprove of it entirely. If we really really have nothing better at deadline and no one else wants to lynch bjc, I will hammer rob but not happily.

P-edit:
I suppose my next biggest suspicion would be nacho, for his big weak case on a lurker who is unlikely to defend himself. Lynching lurkers is not the way to go in newbie games and nacho knows that.

What do you mean with equal chance of being scum?
Everyone starts out with a 25% chance of being scum (8 other players/2 scum) and I have seen nothing from robw to chance this percentage, while I think bjc has a much bigger chance to flip scum.
This equal percentage talk is awful.

[TierShift]

You're scum because:
You don't actually try to scumhunt, just sheep everything that comes by, then not actually believe in your votes and fly elsewhere in the blink of an eye. You don't actively pressure anyone, just place a vote and run off asap again. You first disapproved of voting robW in 253, but now you try and push the rob wagon just to get votes off you (which you aren't even hiding). And now you're attacking another lurker for actually nothing and then when I tell you your case is weak, your response is "I view his play as scummy", which is more non-scumhunting.

I feel very disappointed with the actual content of your posts and you have just been spewing words and words without actual meaning.
So, after my accusations on your part of not scumhunting, you haven't done any more scumhunting and have displayed a very survivalistic attitude.
Which is waaaaay more scummy than what rob has shown so far.

[ika]

Because he has offered nothing to relieve my suspicions and keeps acting survivalistic as fuck.

I don't stall the robw lynch, I disapprove of it entirely. If we really really have nothing better at deadline and no one else wants to lynch bjc, I will hammer rob but not happily.

P-edit:
I suppose my next biggest suspicion would be nacho, for his big weak case on a lurker who is unlikely to defend himself. Lynching lurkers is not the way to go in newbie games and nacho knows that.

What do you mean with equal chance of being scum?
Everyone starts out with a 25% chance of being scum (8 other players/2 scum) and I have seen nothing from robw to chance this percentage, while I think bjc has a much bigger chance to flip scum.
This equal percentage talk is awful.

then why did you reidicule my scum hunting tequneque? my list idea. right now you had the most null from everyone. Really if we were to lynch anyone it should be you. you have played middleman and not building case on bjc.

is he playing survivalism? yes
could he be scum? yes
is he scum? heck if i know
will lynching him yeild information? most likely

his listing:

town: 0
null: 3
scum: 4

you have a more diverse one though

TierShift

town: 1
null: 4
scum: 3

yours is more scattered so your flip would yeild more info is how i see it. i wouldnt mind seeing a bjc flip either but im much more intrested in your flip then his or robs

[bjc]

No, it's hypothetical talk. Everyone has the same chance. BTW, from my perspective the chance of me being scum is 0% because I have a town role.

By your logic, I should have something upwards of 1000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000% so your logic is really bad.

/Tiershift

How? SHOW us how I'm being survivalist af. Talk about burden of proof; "We can't prove he

isn't

acting survivalist so therefore he is acting survivalist." You're the one who has to prove it. You bring up points without showing any evidence.

p-edit: My point on rob was that people were just voting me for weak reasons, and I perceived the wagon as being scum-driven. So why not vote Rob in the situation that scum are leading a wagon on a townie for weak reasons? Rob has not done much of anything; replace out, start catching up/participating or die. Don't post just enough to stay in the game. No surprise you want him alive; I'm sure you'd love to have him in mylo lol.

My response was just doing the equivalent of what you do every time you post; I consider it fair game. :shrug:

Riiiiight. Oh and let me add...

Cool. /Tiershift

[bjc]

ika - I have two listed as town, three as null, three as scum.

[bjc]

I would like to list Tier as town if not for his weird fixation on me combined with uncooperative/anti-town posting and generally just being unhelpful.

[TierShift]

then why did you reidicule my scum hunting tequneque? my list idea. right now you had the most null from everyone. Really if we were to lynch anyone it should be you. you have played middleman and not building case on bjc.

is he playing survivalism? yes
could he be scum? yes
is he scum? heck if i know
will lynching him yeild information? most likely

his listing:

town: 0
null: 3
scum: 4

you have a more diverse one though

TierShift

town: 1
null: 4
scum: 3

yours is more scattered so your flip would yeild more info is how i see it. i wouldnt mind seeing a bjc flip either but im much more intrested in your flip then his or robs

Why do nulls yield more information than scum?

And I think this scumhunting technique is bad, because you scumhunt based on behaviour, not based on (mostly biased and with a certain propaganda) behaviour analyses from others

[TierShift]

For the last time, why am I being anti-town and unhelpful?

[ika]

ika - I have two listed as town, three as null, three as scum.

im refering to what others have you as

[ika]

My first list was legitimate but then I needed to have 3 scumreads for some reason so after putting rob and nacho down with bjc it wasn't

not sure if you just scum, or just noob.

you understand the flaw with just one scum read right?

So I should invent scumreads? That makes no sense.

If you're gonna refer to it some following day to catch scum imma be mad.

post like these are just some of the few examples. espcialy the second one. why be mad at my wa of outing scums?

[TierShift]

Spoiler: all the survivalistic stuff

Look, if you guys are eager to lynch someone now, then lynch Rob holy hell. He isn't posting crap but just enough to stay in the game. There is probably scum on my wagon.

I take that back. There IS scum on my wagon. The question is whether or not it's the whole team or one of them plus RobW.

So we've come to lynching lurkers over scummy players, then?

I'm willing to wager that..

Some of the players voting on me are just voting me to keep a wagon going, and not because they really think I'm scum.
The rest are either scum or sheeping.

It just doesn't seem logical to lynch someone that actively posts content in a mafia game on day one over someone who hasn't done anything, won't be replaced, and may/may not be scum

He's got a point here...

And why haven't you unvoted if you feel my point is valid?

I'm leaving this quote wall out so there is no excuse when ED ignores me.

It just doesn't seem logical to lynch someone that actively posts content in a mafia game on day one over someone who hasn't done anything, won't be replaced, and may/may not be scum

He's got a point here...

And yet, unless I've missed something, you still have your vote on me.

256Hard to put my finger on, but bjc sounds so submissive all the time, feels bad to me.

This seems to be common with those who feel I'm scum. Nothing really definitive about me being scum, just feels and that is pretty much it.

Also:

I'm just dying to hear why I'm probably scum.

This is directed at emeraldemon. You tell me why I'm scum. Don't direct me to a post already made; I want your case made now.

dooes anyone else find it odd how non else had intention to hammer yet?

Yes, I for one do find that odd.

Look, if you guys are eager to lynch someone now, then lynch Rob holy hell. He isn't posting crap but just enough to stay in the game. There is probably scum on my wagon.

Getting scared bro? That just confirms my read on bcj. Obvious scum escaping his lynch by attempting to convince us to inactive lynch Rob.

Look, I can't imagine scum making posts like this, so I'm gonna assume you are just tunneling on me and just doing all around bad town play.

i would want bjc to claim though. its rather disturbing that hes l-1 and has not claimed

Why do I need to claim? There is no serious intent to hammer on me. I don't need to potentially hurt the town via claiming.

start with "what makes you so comfortable making him l-1?"

Well look whose talking here. *facepalm* First, what makes

you

so comfortable putting nacho at l-1?

What about "ninja-hammering" huh?

i didnt phrase it like he did. i said "im l-1ing him"

Also notice how ika puts bcj at null even though bcj has a shitload of content.

becasue his last few post are looking quite scumym and screams survivalism

Let me help convey what I'm trying to convey.

I don't need to survive to achieve my wincon, though it really helps if I do live on. I'm just trying to point out how dumb it is that there are, ATM, two serious lynching candidates (if you look at where votes are right now). One doesn't help the town at all and probably won't be replaced (hmmmmm) and the other is a valuable asset to the town.

If you consider the fact that everyone has the same chance of being scum in a given game, why the hell would you choose the active guy over the inactive guy?

ESPECIALLY when it's been posted by others that they're fine with lynching the inactive guy!?

All of these posts are incredibly survivalistic, by pushing lurker wagons and discrediting the people on your wagon.

[TierShift]

ika, how do you feel about my case on bjc?

I'm thinking your way of scumhunting with that activity was useless and I have said why in 510

[ika]

ika, how do you feel about my case on bjc?

I'm thinking your way of scumhunting with that activity was useless and I have said why in 510

what you think was useless now might be useful later. you can be surpirsed how some things that seem so stupid or moot come back at you. it is kinda more useless on day 1, but it has its uses in long run.

Many players do diffrent tactics to catch scums, it just how it plays out.

[ika]

This is not how it works. Scumhunting is not something that can be quantified like this.

and to maybe come back to this, scum hunting comes in many forms. it can be quatified. look at the lmb count. 6 players slotted him town.

why did a majority slot him town?
did both scums slot him town?
did anyone scum read him?

now if anyone decided to say "meh he could be scum" we can point back to this. also anyone (rob for example) was heavely slotted as scum by 5 people.

well then why is he not at l-1?
why is he not hammered?
why is a majority reading him as scum?
maybe hes is town?

see i have now caused a list of questions and done a PoE for the most point to eliminate LMB and probally rob from the scum pile. what i did was not in vain. what i did was actauly quite informative

[ika]

VOTE: bjc

becasue apparently im not going to get a teir flip which would yeild info.

but rob flip will yeild almost no info. so bjc flip will yeild most info atm.

i also did it to allow us to figure out who thinks about who. and gives us a general sense of who is being a strong town read and whos a strong scum read

[TierShift]

I have no idea how this is gonna help us.

P-edit:
next time announce that we are at

LYNCH -1

[ika]

I have no idea how this is gonna help us.

P-edit:
next time announce that we are at

LYNCH -1

first part: easy PoE

second part: sor

[ika]

Spoiler: PoE

easier to read version

town-null-scum

ika
3-2-2

overall: null

bjc
0-3-4

overall: null-scum

tier
1-4-2

overall: null

rob
0-3-5

overall: scum

lmb
6-2-0

overall: town

emrald
0-3-3

overall: null-scum

ray
4-3-0

overall: null-town

abbott
1-3-3

overall: null

nacho
3-1-2

overall: null-town

by this we can most likely deduct the following

i am still a canidate for scum (however i know i am not)

bjc has a good chance of being scum due to a mix null-scum read

teir has the biggest unknown due to the most null

rob is most likely town due to the higher count of scum then null read. however does work vice versa

lmb is town due to the majority of high town reads

emerald has a null read so he is possible canidate for scum

ray is town due to him having high town-null reads with 0 scum reads

abbott has a good null-scum so could be scum

nacho has a diverse town-scum read so could go either way

[bjc]

You're making it too easy for the scum, but okay.

Apparently anything I post is discredited/wrong/survivalist by the fact that I'm scum according to Tier.

[TierShift]

rob is most likely town due to the higher count of scum then null read. however does work vice versa

I do not follow.

[ika]

You're making it too easy for the scum, but okay.

Apparently anything I post is discredited/wrong/survivalist by the fact that I'm scum according to Tier.

if you flip town im gunnung at teir next most likely jsyk.