Xenosaga Mafia (Game Over)

[borkjerfkin]

butz

[Cephrir]

Orc was supposed to be obvtown by now, but I've never played with him. Is orc town yet?

Apparently ffery thinks so, but I don't.

I am not responding to certain posts right now. This is me acknowledging that.

DON'T MIND ME. IM GOING TO FAKE BEING UPSET AND THEN JUST COAST AND AVOID ACTUALLY DOING ANYTHING THAT LOOKS REMOTELY TOWN BECAUSE FUCK YOU I DO WHAT I WANT

If mastin can ignore my walls I can ignore his. And I can pretty clearly see there is no point in engaging you. I could be an innocent child right now and you would still vote me, y/n?

mastin2- Not scum, nor am I surprised you have a hunch(ish) about who I am. That being said, there are other plays I'm shocked have not let on an idea of my main.

sangres- Brilliant vote, I must say. In the spirit of naked votes, I raise you one:

VOTE: Aegor

ActionDan- Is this the part where we sing a duet of A whole new world or Hakuna Matata?

Brian Skies- Using intentional ragequits is a bannable offense I believe.

Tryingto be cutesy about Sangres's vote on them.
Voting an obviously town-aligned player.
Engaging action dan about nothing.

Wow this post looks so town-aligned.

Aegor is an obviously town-aligned player? First I've heard of it.

You are doing exactly what I'm scumreading mastin for doing, except even more blatantly and going against the grain a little more.

Orc, have you really seen nothing more suspicious in this thread than Skull arguably rolefishing you in one place? Why are you content to be a one vote wagon on him (and not seeming very worried about no one listening to you), and why are you ignoring how town he is otherwise?

Please. Why are YOU ignoring how ridiculously town Orcinus is being. His suspicions are pretty town motivated, hes just horribly wrong.

I don't see how this is the case. The only motivation I see in scumreading skull is lazy motivation, he must not be reading the guy's posts.

Also, he was ridiculously town in 165, and is not living up to that. His play here reminds me instead of 167. He's still getting upset about things and pushing on them, but those things don't make as much sense, and in a void in both cases I read him as nulltown as opposed to obvtown. In 167 I didn't trust my instincts to hold him to an obvtown standard and lo and behold, scum. Speaking of which, I thought sangres was more town in that game than they have been in this one, and they weren't. If I had to guess right now I might not even put them at null.

Varsoon - I need to scumread him at some point and vote him and see if he gets upset about it. Him being sick could make me think hes just being passively scummy here.
Cabd - Really, why are you voteparking mastin so hard?
MafiaSSK - Can't actually remember anything he's done, but its MafiaSSK so :hitoshrug:

I hate all of these sentences. Most notably the first one. You can tell me all you want how it's actually a town mindset to hold one's cards close to one's chest (which I also happen not to believe, thinking about inventing suspicions is a scum mindset) but actually coming out and saying "I need to fake scumread this person" is just an attempt to look town because you've completely invalidated your own point.

A fair point. Did I ask Orcinus about anything other than his hated claim, though? No. No I did not. Would someone be so kind as to point this out to Orc? He obviously isn't listening to me (probably because he doesn't want to admit that he's wrong).

Why are you hated and why do you stop being hated on Night 2?

This is not actually a contradiction

actually sorry wait i completely misread skull's post because i was assuming he was just parroting what he said earlier

skull didn't ask me anything other than the hated claim, but it's the fact that he asked me to elaborate on the hated claim that makes him scum

when did i ever suggest anything important about skull outside of interaction w/ my claim??

I just don't see how we get from point A to point Scum here.

[Cephrir]

sangres- Brilliant vote, I must say. In the spirit of naked votes, I raise you one

Your placement in my reads list wasn't commentworthy, but my vote was. Good to know.

Is this not the same thing?

Unrealtedly, do you have any reads this game that aren't popular opinion?

I'm still weirded out by how easily you gave Cabd a free pass. I happen to think he's likely town, and you did say something like '165 was a long time ago' but have you even been opposite alignments since then? (the answer to this could easily be yes, I don't know)

[Cephrir]

Looking back at your reads list I see exactly one read that actually surprises me and it's mollie. I can't fathom how you could be townreading her right now for being useless.

[Angry Frat BROs]

I hate all of these sentences. Most notably the first one. You can tell me all you want how it's actually a town mindset to hold one's cards close to one's chest (which I also happen not to believe, thinking about inventing suspicions is a scum mindset) but actually coming out and saying "I need to fake scumread this person" is just an attempt to look town because you've completely invalidated your own point.

Which point did I invalidate??

[Angry Frat BROs]

Looking back at your reads list I see exactly one read that actually surprises me and it's mollie. I can't fathom how you could be townreading her right now for being useless.

Because Mollie is a book and she isn't being useless?

What is your MafiaSSK read exactly?

[sangres]

sangres- Brilliant vote, I must say. In the spirit of naked votes, I raise you one

Your placement in my reads list wasn't commentworthy, but my vote was. Good to know.

Is this not the same thing?

How so?

Unrealtedly, do you have any reads this game that aren't popular opinion?

No idea. Maybe I've set popular opinion in a couple cases?

I'm still weirded out by how easily you gave Cabd a free pass. I happen to think he's likely town, and you did say something like '165 was a long time ago' but have you even been opposite alignments since then? (the answer to this could easily be yes, I don't know)

We've been opposite alignments twice since then, unless one of the games was going on during late 165. I'm pretty smug about both games, actually. Also, I've seen a lot more of both his scum game and town game since then both as a hydra with him and not.

Even right after 165, I was trying to maintain a non-paranoia zone on day 1 of our games. Your FEA game was a decent example.

[Kazekirimaru]

ftr here's the games I looked at
scum: Open 424: Jungle Republic, Mini 1442: House of Cards
town: The Red Wedding

Does he only have three completed games or something? I wouldn't call that a meta-dive.

Btw orc skulduggery is so obviously town who cares about role fishing when you outed your own role lol

The wording here is weird. Rather than "he wasn't role fishing" you basically say we shouldn't care that he was rolefishing. So, do you believe he was rolefishing, or not?

Still town as always.

Pardon me if your words don't exactly make me feel better.

If there is any scum on the brian wagon, I would think it has to be metal sonic or muffin. Flandre's naked vote is not scummy, imo. MS's notebook pic is terrible, but I think if ms were trying to say "omg, only town would keep notes about the game!" he would have made the notebook much busier and taken a picture that shows more of his "notes." The notebook thing might actually be town.

So...is he or is he not scum?

Da Herp de derp derp. YOU ARE ALL WELCOME TO ADMIT YOU WERE WRONG ABOUT KAZE AND LYNCH THIS CLOWN ANY DAY NOW

Calling for my lynch when you're not even voting me? Nice.

I mean, if you want a wagon, you should really try harder. Not that it'll matter. You won't mislynch me.

DON'T MIND ME. IM GOING TO FAKE BEING UPSET AND THEN JUST COAST AND AVOID ACTUALLY DOING ANYTHING THAT LOOKS REMOTELY TOWN BECAUSE FUCK YOU I DO WHAT I WANT

Because blatantly ignoring people in-thread is a scumtell, right?

Also 819 is one of the towniest posts ever. Aegor is basically confirmed town.

Because he's not aware that MafiaSSK lurks 5eva? I don't see your point here.

Yes, but lets stop asking MS pointless questions and lynch people who are actually scummy.

Like MS?

You are doing exactly what I'm scumreading mastin for doing, except even more blatantly and going against the grain a little more.

I think you're pushing the "people with unclear reads are scum" angle a bit too hard.

[Venmar]

What are your scumreads. I'll tell you right now how good they are.

[sangres]

Looking back at your reads list I see exactly one read that actually surprises me and it's mollie. I can't fathom how you could be townreading her right now for being useless.

That's not what I'm townreading her for. But I agree she's not been super-useful so far.

[Angry Frat BROs]

What are your scumreads. I'll tell you right now how good they are.

Like I haven't been pretty explicit about my reads?

zMuffin, Cephrir, Kaze, Flandre

Maybe Flandre is a little less so than the other 3

[sangres]

AP have you played many games with Kaze?

[Angry Frat BROs]

Ew meta, abort conversation, abort the question.

Stop misreading people who play to their meta. TIA

[Cephrir]

I hate all of these sentences. Most notably the first one. You can tell me all you want how it's actually a town mindset to hold one's cards close to one's chest (which I also happen not to believe, thinking about inventing suspicions is a scum mindset) but actually coming out and saying "I need to fake scumread this person" is just an attempt to look town because you've completely invalidated your own point.

Which point did I invalidate??

You can't do it anymore once you say that.

Looking back at your reads list I see exactly one read that actually surprises me and it's mollie. I can't fathom how you could be townreading her right now for being useless.

Because Mollie is a book and she isn't being useless?

What is your MafiaSSK read exactly?

I don't have a read on SSK. I don't think I ever have or in all probability will, in any game ever.

That doesn't mean I don't expect other people to try.

sangres- Brilliant vote, I must say. In the spirit of naked votes, I raise you one

Your placement in my reads list wasn't commentworthy, but my vote was. Good to know.

Is this not the same thing?

How so?

I think what I missed about this was how many pages there were between your read list and your vote. I was thinking the reactions would be functionally identical. So yeah never mind.

Unrealtedly, do you have any reads this game that aren't popular opinion?

No idea. Maybe I've set popular opinion in a couple cases?

=S

I'm still weirded out by how easily you gave Cabd a free pass. I happen to think he's likely town, and you did say something like '165 was a long time ago' but have you even been opposite alignments since then? (the answer to this could easily be yes, I don't know)

We've been opposite alignments twice since then, unless one of the games was going on during late 165. I'm pretty smug about both games, actually. Also, I've seen a lot more of both his scum game and town game since then both as a hydra with him and not.

Even right after 165, I was trying to maintain a non-paranoia zone on day 1 of our games. Your FEA game was a decent example.

Hm, maybe. Latter part I will give you.

You are doing exactly what I'm scumreading mastin for doing, except even more blatantly and going against the grain a little more.

I think you're pushing the "people with unclear reads are scum" angle a bit too hard.

One is allowed to have unclear reads, but if they are going to push those reads as hard as they have been and present them as objective fact, that's when they need to be clear. Otherwise they're just hoping people will sheep them if they yell loud enough as opposed to because they actually make persuasive arguments. Yelling loud enough does work, which is why my suspects basically never get lynched except when I try to scream them (read: I am apparently remarkably unpersuasive in general) but it's also a scum tactic, and if they believe all their reads as strongly as they appear to it should be no trouble to articulate why. And yet, for instance, you became scum at the drop of a hat because quote-stripes-followed-by-lol-youre-scum.

[sangres]

Ew meta, abort conversation, abort the question.

Stop misreading people who play to their meta. TIA

"to their meta".

It's not so much playing to meta as it is a meta-trajectory, and the town games landing along a curve. I don't think he has any idea where I expect his game to go next, because I don't have expectations. When I see it, I see that the curve makes sense.

[sangres]

I will say, though, that his early posts in this game did not make for the start of a warm fuzzy read.

[Cephrir]

Ew meta, abort conversation, abort the question.

Stop misreading people who play to their meta. TIA

If you misread someone on meta, you meta'd them incorrectly. No one can play to their meta perfectly.

Also, telling ffery to ignore meta is like telling her to stop breathing. You know this.

[sangres]

My reads are sometimes meta-informed. They are seldom meta-based. It surprises me sometimes that I'm lumped in with the meta players, because I'm not nearly as exhaustive about it as players like F-16, Cabd and Nacho.

[Angry Frat BROs]

I don't have a read on SSK. I don't think I ever have or in all probability will, in any game ever.

That doesn't mean I don't expect other people to try.

Also, telling ffery to ignore meta is like telling her to stop breathing. You know this.

I can wish.

Meta is only actually good for invalidating scum/town tells on people. Not generating them.

You can't do it anymore once you say that.

Kind of. I get the impression he isn't reading everything : P
And I would never blatantly reaction test someone like that to see if they raged. Far too generic of a thing to look for. Im sure Varsoon is totally capable of being upset when hes scum.
I do WANT him to rage though because I think it will make him more transparent.

[Angry Frat BROs]

FWIW, I have MafiaSSK on the scummy side of null after reading his ISO

[Kazekirimaru]

One is allowed to have unclear reads, but if they are going to push those reads as hard as they have been and present them as objective fact, that's when they need to be clear. Otherwise they're just hoping people will sheep them if they yell loud enough as opposed to because they actually make persuasive arguments. Yelling loud enough does work, which is why my suspects basically never get lynched except when I try to scream them (read: I am apparently remarkably unpersuasive in general) but it's also a scum tactic, and if they believe all their reads as strongly as they appear to it should be no trouble to articulate why. And yet, for instance, you became scum at the drop of a hat because quote-stripes-followed-by-lol-youre-scum.

I hear cases are scummy. ;D

[Venmar]

Like I haven't been pretty explicit about my reads?

zMuffin, Cephrir, Kaze, Flandre

Maybe Flandre is a little less so than the other 3

Muffin is town, Kaze might be town, Ceprhir and Flandre idk.

Go vote MS and make yourself useful.

[Cephrir]

Are you not the head that was flipping their shit on me AFB? You suddenly started treating me like a real person.

[Cephrir]

One is allowed to have unclear reads, but if they are going to push those reads as hard as they have been and present them as objective fact, that's when they need to be clear. Otherwise they're just hoping people will sheep them if they yell loud enough as opposed to because they actually make persuasive arguments. Yelling loud enough does work, which is why my suspects basically never get lynched except when I try to scream them (read: I am apparently remarkably unpersuasive in general) but it's also a scum tactic, and if they believe all their reads as strongly as they appear to it should be no trouble to articulate why. And yet, for instance, you became scum at the drop of a hat because quote-stripes-followed-by-lol-youre-scum.

I hear cases are scummy. ;D

Listen.

I hate you.

[Kazekirimaru]

Join the club.