The Fall of Gondolin Mafia: Game Over (The Tale of Gondolin)

[shos]

Wagons I would support currently : ABR, Desp, sirdan

Alright, for the gazillionth time.
I get ABR. I get sirdan.

WHY DO PEOPLE WANT TO LYNCH DES?!?!

also, just finished a scumgame where he was town, go read.

[Elscouta]

Erm. I'm sure I had a reason. But that's actually a good question.

>.>

[sirdanilot]

Els will you be a doll and be like Action-I-Hop-Onto-Every-Wagon-Dan and hop onto the Spyrex wagon please thanks.

Sigh. It seems to be another playstyle-based wagon, which means that I would need to do a meta analysis on him. Add to that the fact that it was launched as a counterwagon to wagons I like (and by people far from my townlist) means I will most likely not be on board.

Wagons I would support currently : ABR, Desp, sirdan

Huh is spyrex your scumbuddy or something because this post, even though I read you as town, says 'Hi I am els and I am scum' to me.
Let me sum up what is wrong with it.

1. Another playstyle based wagon. As if ABR, desp and me aren't playstyle based wagons. Hahahahaha.
2. Oh gee you would have to do a META ANALYSIS? Oooooh my. That's SUCH a hug sacrifice to make. Poor baby.
3. You like wagons on me and desp? ABR is the only remotely likeable wagon out of the three you mention.
4. Post 1276 "Erm. I'm sure I had a reason. But that's actually a good question. " Yeaaaah very strong scumread you have there on Desp. Veeeeeeery genuine

Why is everyone scum?

Unvote, vote Spyrex

Seriously, what the fuck is your problem? What's the motivation behind jumping on every fucking wagon? How does this help town at all?

Seriously, what the fuck is your problem? What's the motivation behind being fucking useless and not doing anything to contribute to the town? How does this help town at all?

[Shadoweh]

Shadoweh, you need to stop following sirscumalot and Albert Scum Rampage, or you will get lynched with them.

You can clearly see from that votecount that they followed me because I'm so pretty!
This Spyrex wagon makes even less sense then Peregrine, and is about the same people who just want a lynch by this point.
(which is why all the votecounts look the same, FYI. Maybe they would look different if people knew how to work together.)

[Elscouta]

Erm. I'm sure I had a reason. But that's actually a good question.

>.>

Ah found it. It was originally a dislike of #1063 along with an unwillingness of pushing a viable wagon on d1 deadline (#936).

But um on a reread, i get severe town vibes for him. Scrap me from the supporters on his wagon.

--

1. Another playstyle based wagon. As if ABR, desp and me aren't playstyle based wagons. Hahahahaha.
2. Oh gee you would have to do a META ANALYSIS? Oooooh my. That's SUCH a hug sacrifice to make. Poor baby.
3. You like wagons on me and desp? ABR is the only remotely likeable wagon out of the three you mention.
4. Post 1276 "Erm. I'm sure I had a reason. But that's actually a good question. " Yeaaaah very strong scumread you have there on Desp. Veeeeeeery genuine

1. ABR isn't playstyle. It's the interaction with Tierce. Cf above for Desp. You are definitely not playstyle. Want me to sum up the case once more on you?
2. Yes, that means i would have to spend 1h+ reading old games of his to determine if he plays like in other games. Yes, that's a large commitement to make when you have no internet at home. From someone that managed to request someone else to read a complete for a dumb "see i get lynched as town" argument, i guess this is to be expected, but yeah, my time doesn't belong to you.
3. What? Didn't you vote Desp? So you don't like Desp wagon finally?

I want you to answer to this, if nothing else.

4. See above.

[PeregrineV]

PV Are you still scum now that you have 6 votes? If not, who is scum? Is the wagon on you scum-driven?

I'll answer in 3 pages.

[PeregrineV]

That went faster than I expected.

[shos]

well in regards to 936, he did say he'll be around at deadline, so.
1063 examplifies even better the fact that he thinks sirdan is scum; I don't see anything scummy there.

the rest of your post makes me alittle uneasy about how you take back your words, but I already had a strong enough townread on you so I'm letting that go. Are you willing to lynch sirdan as well?

[sirdanilot]

3. What? Didn't you vote Desp? So you don't like Desp wagon finally? I want you to answer to this, if nothing else.

No Desp is no top scumread anymore no. I am llowed to do this flip because you did it too. If you now call me out for this then you're nothing but a hypocrite

You dont'need to spend an hour to read old Spyrex games. That's ridiculous. Just go look up some of his old games and skim them. IT doesn't take an hour.

[sirdanilot]

A deadline lynch on me would be the most fucking stupid thing possible by the way. But yeah I guess town is gonna lose anyway so why should I even bother defending myself. I don't see a case to defend in any case.

[Elscouta]

No Desp is no top scumread anymore no. I am llowed to do this flip because you did it too. If you now call me out for this then you're nothing but a hypocrite

ohmygawd. Obviously it is bad to retract a read, and i'm fine with people being perplexed by my change of mind on Desp (which is basically due to a "i found a post by Desp to be scummy -> people start voting for Desp -> i don't bother doing an iso of Desp and just call the wagon good -> shos ask why people are lynching Desp -> i read the iso and notice that the reason i had was actually pretty weak). And in your case, all your behaviour regarding Desp stinks. First you follow CES (despite thinking he is scum) onto Desp, and then you call the wagon awful without saying anywhere that you changed your mind about it and why. "i'm allowed to change my mind because you did too, and you are not allowed to attack me for that" is probably the worst reason I have ever heard for justifying a change of mind.

The way that your relation towards me moved from "trying to buddy/put me on your side" day 1 into "calling me useless/etc" day 2 doesn't help your case. I can very well see scum trying the friend appoarch, then going into mud throwing when you see it didn't work.

Vote: Sirdanilot

You dont'need to spend an hour to read old Spyrex games. That's ridiculous. Just go look up some of his old games and skim them. IT doesn't take an hour.

Skimming is useless for meta. It just gives a false impression of "having done something". The only thing you can get quickly is active / non-active and possibly insulting-agressive / friendly.

the rest of your post makes me alittle uneasy about how you take back your words, but I already had a strong enough townread on you so I'm letting that go. Are you willing to lynch sirdan as well?

Especially since his last post, yes.

[PeregrineV]

PV Are you still scum now that you have 6 votes? If not, who is scum? Is the wagon on you scum-driven?

PeregrineV - 6 - shos, Majiffy, Shadoweh, sirdanilot, Albert B. Rampage, Cogito Ergo Sum

This is was the height of my wagon, although I think it's gone down since.

shos- I remain neutral on. His meta to me was not saying town, but it was based on an older game. More recent games it still doesn't look like his recent town games, but it's more gut than anything I can point out.

Majiffy- Could be. Crap votes aren't his forte, but he has been known to hop on a wagon or two. Frankly, he did vote his scum reads in the beginning, and I was null to him, so it's not unreasonable. However, if Majiffy flips scum, then I found another.

Shadow- Had early game suspicions, and they haven't gotten much better (a little, not much). Part of this is tied for the 5th most posts, yet hard to find actual opinions. Today's consists of jumping on the Desp wagon and my wagon, but not original wagons or content. I'd say scum.

sirdanilot- Seems to have incurred a large amount of scumreads. And I can see why some may think so, but overall, town enough not to lynch.

ABR- Is pretty much voting everyone who has voted him or called him scum. I'm torn, since I feel this is how he would play as scum, but glancing at his recent games (http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?tit ... B._Rampage) there's not much to differentiate him. As town, he'd probably be scum protected to take into lylo, although if scum looks at his game stats, they are more likely to win if they lynch him now. Would maybe default lynch, but probably not today.

CES- Crappy vote. Can't tell if crappy town or crappy scum.

That sums up my wagon, unfortunately.

Would currently be for a Shadow or MafiaSSK as scum.

Vote: MafiaSSK

[PeregrineV]

Els will you be a doll and be like Action-I-Hop-Onto-Every-Wagon-Dan and hop onto the Spyrex wagon please thanks.

Sigh. It seems to be another playstyle-based wagon, which means that I would need to do a meta analysis on him. Add to that the fact that it was launched as a counterwagon to wagons I like (and by people far from my townlist) means I will most likely not be on board.

Wagons I would support currently : ABR, Desp, sirdan

I kind of have you as a town read. What are your MafiaSSK, Shadow TiP, shos reads, and what are they based on?

[Elscouta]

MafiaSSK - no read / nothing particularly stroke out one way or another, but i didn't look particularly in this direction
Shadoweh - medium town read. Originally strong town read due to the general tone of her posts. Some doubt now due to Majiffy case (that i didn't digest fully, but that makes kinda sense) and the fact that she seems to hang out with bad people / on bad wagons
TIP - slight scum read. Mostly i find him useless and very condescending. Useless is neutral read, but condescending / discrediting cases is something a bit more scummy in my book
sho - very strong town read. Common suspicions, some posts that sounded very townie (most recent being #1275).

[sirdanilot]

No Desp is no top scumread anymore no. I am llowed to do this flip because you did it too. If you now call me out for this then you're nothing but a hypocrite

ohmygawd. Obviously it is bad to retract a read, and i'm fine with people being perplexed by my change of mind on Desp (which is basically due to a "i found a post by Desp to be scummy -> people start voting for Desp -> i don't bother doing an iso of Desp and just call the wagon good -> shos ask why people are lynching Desp -> i read the iso and notice that the reason i had was actually pretty weak). And in your case, all your behaviour regarding Desp stinks. First you follow CES (despite thinking he is scum) onto Desp, and then you call the wagon awful without saying anywhere that you changed your mind about it and why. "i'm allowed to change my mind because you did too, and you are not allowed to attack me for that" is probably the worst reason I have ever heard for justifying a change of mind.

The way that your relation towards me moved from "trying to buddy/put me on your side" day 1 into "calling me useless/etc" day 2 doesn't help your case. I can very well see scum trying the friend appoarch, then going into mud throwing when you see it didn't work.

Vote: Sirdanilot

This is the most fucking stupid thing in existence on my wagon. So now

you

are allowed to change your mind on Desp, and I am not? Also, do

you

state all of your reads at every given time everywhere? I certainly post a lot of reads but I cannot keep up with all of them. I stated in multiple places that I was not very sure of a Desp scumread, but that I wanted to see where the wagon would go. Like post 1110.

I hadn't noticed that he was the first voter on Desp.
You know, Desp hasn't really been wagoned before, so it's also kind of a 'lessee where this goes' vote. I'll be honest with you there. I don't have a clear enough read on desp to be all 'DIE DIE DIE SCUM DIE'.

If you are going to lead the town to me getting lynched, then you are either fucking stupid and should learn how to scum hunt and read people with different play styles, or you are a scumbag after all.

You dont'need to spend an hour to read old Spyrex games. That's ridiculous. Just go look up some of his old games and skim them. IT doesn't take an hour.

Skimming is useless for meta. It just gives a false impression of "having done something". The only thing you can get quickly is active / non-active and possibly insulting-agressive / friendly.

the rest of your post makes me alittle uneasy about how you take back your words, but I already had a strong enough townread on you so I'm letting that go. Are you willing to lynch sirdan as well?

Especially since his last post, yes.[/quote]

Skimming is useless for meta. It just gives a false impression of "having done something". The only thing you can get quickly is active / non-active and possibly insulting-agressive / friendly.

It's way less useless than doing nothing and voting people like me for shitty reasons that will lead the town to doom. If you would skim my meta you would learn a whole lot about me, boy.

MafiaSSK - no read / nothing particularly stroke out one way or another, but i didn't look particularly in this direction
Shadoweh - medium town read. Originally strong town read due to the general tone of her posts. Some doubt now due to Majiffy case (that i didn't digest fully, but that makes kinda sense) and the fact that she seems to hang out with bad people / on bad wagons
TIP - slight scum read. Mostly i find him useless and very condescending. Useless is neutral read, but condescending / discrediting cases is something a bit more scummy in my book
sho - very strong town read. Common suspicions, some posts that sounded very townie (most recent being #1275).

This is horrible, especially the medium/null kinds of reads. I can understand your shos and Shadoweh reads. Your TIP read in principle I do not disagree with but your reasons are crap and pulled from a fresh backside ('condescending' as a scumtell? Really?). Your MafiaSSK read points to him being your buddy if MafiaSSK flips scum and vice versa.

[JacobSavage]

Gah I just don't know this game anymore....

[PeregrineV]

Vote: MafiaSSK

No, just looked back through his ISO.

@mafiaSSK

- Where has your CES=scummy scum scum read gone to?

Vote: Shadow

[PeregrineV]

Gah I just don't know this game anymore....

you know, this kind of implies you did at one point. With your townreads of ActionDan & SpyreX & CES and nothing else, that seems kind of.....fake.

Hey, since we're on the topic of you,

Maybe show the posts were CES' actions "made him very town".

[shos]

PV's post is meh. it's an effort, but it is so undeterministic, that it's..well, null. still would lynch.

I need to have a tiny reread of sirdan before I decide which one of him or PV I want lynched today.

[Tierce]

So now that we're done with Stupid Wagons, Part 9 of 37, can we please lynch ABR?

Look at the progression. There is nothing wrong with wagon-hopping per se, ABR does it a lot as Town, but he's not probing at the people he's voting in any manner. In the game I linked, he even tried to bully a Town player into voting his suspect by voting him. Here? The votes are really bland, and he immediately hops off rather than doing anything resembling convincing others.

Look at this sequence:

Unvote, vote Desperado

Limited access

sirdanilot seems town don't lynch him

I'll go for Elscouta, or Desperado, or any number of other players lol

Unvote, vote Tierce

Laying down a vote like that can only come from scum.

Unvote, vote VOTE: PeregrineV

Unvote, vote Spyrex

This does not read like the thoguht process of someone who said this:

Thank you, Tierce. I was not motivated to read the game until you posted that.

I was absent in the pages leading to Aegor's lynch, missed the claim, missed the lynch, and didn't understand the flip. I came back today and instead of a simple catch-up post being made available by players who are more invested in the game, I receive accusations and attacks and threats to replace out. Tierce was the only one who was at least nice about asking me to read. Notice how I didn't sheep her CES vote, which is what I would do if I wanted to buddy her. No, I just think she's nice, and I appreciate it.

Where's the interest in the game? Regardless of whether or not he read D1, he's clearly not bothering to read D2 either, and there's no weight behind his votes.

ABR knows he has a meta for vote-hopping, but this game is missing the actual Town part of his vote-hopping, where he puts his money where his vote is.

tiny reread of sirdan

Good god, someone is reading his posts? I commend your bravery. But come vote actual scum please and thank you.

[sirdanilot]

Gah I just don't know this game anymore....

Hi scummy pants, who are your buddies?

Tierce what do you think of Spyrex? Is he scum? Or do your buddies not allow you to bus Spyrex?

[JacobSavage]

I'll tell you in our QT.

@PereV pretty sure I've already done that.

[Tierce]

Tierce what do you think of Spyrex? Is he scum? Or do your buddies not allow you to bus Spyrex?

Yeah it's totally my buddies' doing.

Have I called SpyreX scum? No. Have I called him Town? Yes. Perhaps you should stop posting inane questions and actually read people's posts, but if wishes were horses, etc.

[sirdanilot]

Have you looked at my case on Spyrex? Cause you seem to advocate not reading people's posts so much don't you?

Still find him town?

[Tierce]

No, just

your

posts.

I have and I do. I'm probably the person with the strongest awareness of why SpyreX is acting like he is in this game, and he has had a lot of chances to be disruptive a la ASoIaF uPick (work hours notwithstanding) under the guise of purging this playerlist, and chose not to do so. He has

not

stopped giving input in the game, unlike what you're trying to sell him as, so you can turn the tunnel goggles elsewhere and let the adults do the lynchings.