Newbie 1471: Italian Ice (Game Over!)

[RayFrost]

When I'm ready to talk about it, I'd prefer to have you go first because then I can pretend that you said everything that I never actually thought up because I have nothing to support myself with.

I'm kidding.

But yes I'd prefer you go first because I would like to see what you had in mind. My stuff's fairly simple and starightforward. It's not that there's a line of inquiry set up so much as that the reasons I have for thinking what I'm thinking are not things I wanna discuss due to revealing things that shouldn't be revealed.

Nothing to do with other ongoing games please don't bring any up.

[Sakura Hana]

I don't see what did you want to do with that post, but if you're in a game with ray and it's not Newbie 1471 (this one) then... it doesnt exist unless it's finished.

Enphasis on...

IT DOESNT EXIST.

[pisskop]

sigh.

[RayFrost]

I don't know the purpose behind pisskop's post.

But it's not game relevant that I'm in another game with him. Mmmkay?

[Sakura Hana]

I'll just link this handy post: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=30908
And low let us all pretend that never happened.

[emeraldemon]

Spoiler: Rayfrost

Seems town, see last post

Spoiler: fferylt

fferylt's recent questions and back-and-forth with me felt like she really wanted to sort me. I was on the fence about ika, but I'm gonna call this town for now. I'll have plenty of time to be paranoid about it tomorrow if I live that long.

Spoiler: LynchMeBro

LMB is probably getting too much of a free pass, but I'm still reading this as town AFK.

Spoiler: Sakura

If people say sheeping Nacho is her meta, I won't argue. I'm not gonna try to read a Sakura / Nacho game today. I wish I could ISO but the site is down.

Spoiler: bjc

Honestly a lot depends on whether 365 was a PR softclaim or slip. I don't know how to say that without risking outing him if he is PR, but saying "I'm not worried about getting mislynched, there's a reason I'm asking for intent to hammer" sounds like a fed-up PR. That's why my case about bjc before was so vague, I was trying to hint and see if he picked up and confirmed / denied. He didn't, which I suppose is the smartest play anyway. The long battle between bjc and tiershift made them both look bad to me. I talked a lot about him in past posts, I don't really think there's a strong case for bjc scum, but he hasn't played town enough for me to throw him in the town pile. The waffling between tiershift and I could be town, but it could be scum looking for an easy wagon.

Spoiler: nacho

I liked nacho early, but not hearing from him in so long makes me nervous. He says he still hasn't read pisskop, is he really just too busy? He hasn't changed his reads on anyone in a while I feel like, I really want to hear what he says about pisskop before I pass judgement here.

Spoiler: tiershift

This is another one I really need to ISO. The only person he's really stuck his neck out for is me, which makes me super nervous. But if he's scum, it almost seems like he wouldn't be buddying so explicitly. Apart from that, he's another one who hasn't updated reads much lately, he's been tunneling on bjc pretty much the whole game. The long battle between bjc and tiershift made them both look bad to me.

Spoiler: pisskop

I thought 386 made sense. I wasn't reading Rob W as null; compare LMB's lurking to Rob W's, LMB seems like town lurking, Rob W seems like scum lurking. Pisskop is all over the place, which makes it very hard for me to sympathize or feel like I understand his play. He thought ika was scum, then thought I was scucm, then changed his mind and said I was town, bjc was scum, came out with a claim of tiershift / Sakura scumteam. Now Ray says I am scummy and his vote is on me again. If I were scum in pisskop's shoes I would probably push on everything at once and see if I can get any momentum going, just like he's doing. I will say that his interactions with tiershift don't feel like scum theater, which is making me doubt the tiershift / pisskop pair. Would scum pisskop look for an elaborate association tell on Sakura and tiershift, especially if either of them was his scum partner? Add to this that I am townreading RayFrost and Fferylt, who are both calling pisskop town.

The three people who have been most suspicious to me this game have been tiershift, bjc, and Rob (now pisskop). But I'm having trouble seeing tiershift/bjc or tiershift/pisskop. pisskop/bjc is maybe, but not super likely. So now I'm thinking I've missed something, and maybe it really is tiershift / Sakura or bjc / nacho or something along those lines.

Spoiler: Overall Reads

TOWN
RayFrost
FFerylt
LMB
nacho
bjc
Sakura
tiershift
pisskop
SCUM

@pisskop
I am still waiting to hear why you hopped on my wagon.

@tiershift
Why have you been defending me all game? Everyone else seems to think I'm scummy, why are you townreading me?

[pisskop]

@pisskop
I am still waiting to hear why you hopped on my wagon.

info.

[fferyllt]

my townbloc

This is the part I'm trying to draw attention to. You are trying to make your own townblock. You did not describe yourself as part of nacho's townblock. What I got out of that post is "nacho thinks we're town, so you should too".

This is all about the possible intention behind one post, but that post felt bad to me and I stand by that.

My townbloc is influenced by Nacho's reads. I got a hellacious townread off his early posts. I liked his challenge to me about LMB while I was catching up, though he could easily predict that my read of LMB would change as I worked my way through game thread. I know about his current time constraints from other games and from hydraing with him, so though I want to hear more from him, particularly about what he now thinks about Rob/pisskop, I'm not freaking out about his drop in activity.

[emeraldemon]

@pisskop
I am still waiting to hear why you hopped on my wagon.

info.

Well, do you have more info now? Your reads have been jumping around all crazy, and that makes it hard for me to follow your reasoning, which makes it hard for me to townread you. If you had complete control over the lynch, who would you lynch today?

[TierShift]

ED, I townread you because of stuff mentioned in 670 and I haven't even seen a half-decent argument to make me think you are scum. I find it weird that people are scumreading you and I'm wondering if I'm doing something wrong, but everytime I ask I get no answers.

[pisskop]

fferylt or hana if I had my way right now.
I think bjc would tell us the most from a lynch, though, seeing how controversial he is/was.
I want to suspect nacho, but I keep finding no good reason to.


And I asked you about Ray because I have no clue what scumRay is like.

Hana's been looking for a reason to tie me a bowtie, and ika weirds me.

The issue I have is its clear that we all know how to blend in, and post content as scum. I saw no clear logic failings, no nasty pushes with suspicious wording, nothing.

LMB I haven't even seen post yet. where is he? I think his JK breadcrumb was crap, though. Easy to fake, and easy to pull out of a hat when needed.

[emeraldemon]

fferylt or hana if I had my way right now.
[...]
Hana's been looking for a reason to tie me a bowtie, and ika weirds me.

Neither of those things are scummy though, are they?

[emeraldemon]

@tiershift
It seems like you're scumreading pisskop, but your vote hasn't budged off of bjc. Why? Is bjc still scummier?

@fferylt
OK, so you are townreading nacho, pisskop, and maybe ray. What do you think about bjc? And tiershift?

[TierShift]

@tiershift
It seems like you're scumreading pisskop, but your vote hasn't budged off of bjc. Why? Is bjc still scummier?

Yep.

[Sakura Hana]

If people say sheeping Nacho is her meta, I won't argue. I'm not gonna try to read a Sakura / Nacho game today. I wish I could ISO but the site is down.

That isn't the point I was trying to make tho.
The point i was trying to make is that the post you quoted is a post i have made to give key points i remembered from the thread to pisskop.
I do have a tendency to sheep Nacho, specially when I believe he's town tho.

[fferyllt]

fferylt or hana if I had my way right now.
I think bjc would tell us the most from a lynch, though, seeing how controversial he is/was.
I want to suspect nacho, but I keep finding no good reason to.


And I asked you about Ray because I have no clue what scumRay is like.

Hana's been looking for a reason to tie me a bowtie, and ika weirds me.

The issue I have is its clear that we all know how to blend in, and post content as scum. I saw no clear logic failings, no nasty pushes with suspicious wording, nothing.

LMB I haven't even seen post yet. where is he? I think his JK breadcrumb was crap, though. Easy to fake, and easy to pull out of a hat when needed.

Your reasons for wanting to lynch us make me wonder if you feel boxed in. The low hanging fruit have been taken off the table. That includes you, I think, because Ray and I both think you looked town while under lynch pressure.

I feel like I need to look for scum in unconventional places. bjc is probably the closest thing to an easy lynch currently, which makes me want to look really closely at players who keep pushing him.

[fferyllt]

@tiershift
It seems like you're scumreading pisskop, but your vote hasn't budged off of bjc. Why? Is bjc still scummier?

@fferylt
OK, so you are townreading nacho, pisskop, and maybe ray. What do you think about bjc? And tiershift?

I didn't like tiershift in my read through. He's come off a little better in the last 5 or so pages, but I am not townreading him. bjc I still think is town. Like I said, I feel like I need to think unconventionally wrt to finding scum.

[emeraldemon]

@Sakura
Sure, but if you were scum you might make sure the "key points from the thread" included why you were town.

Since you're here, you had some negative vibes from pisskop earlier, you said you didn't like his reaction to your fakehammer and e.g. 1045. What do you think about fferylt and rayfrost townreading him?

[Sakura Hana]

What do you think about fferylt and rayfrost townreading him?

I don't really know, and his reaction to the fakehammer was fake anyway since he knew it was a fakehammer.
The thing that bothered me is that he wanted to "sacrifice himself" to clear TS, and then not much later he thinks TS is scum.

[Sakura Hana]

Oops, i forgot to answer the actual question >.>

Well just because i think someone is town doesnt mean they're right, but nacho has proven to me that his ability at catching scum is great and he'd be someone i'd follow until he messes up in that game.

[pisskop]

fferylt or hana if I had my way right now.
[...]
Hana's been looking for a reason to tie me a bowtie, and ika weirds me.

Neither of those things are scummy though, are they?

Taken without emotion, ika deserves to be lynched several times over.

[fferyllt]

Nah. ika was town as fuck.

[pisskop]

its my playstyle to flipflop on reads, to L-1 IC in a gambity manner, and to repeatedly post yoyr intent to lynch several characters d2?
gtfofh with that. raytown expressed similar sentiment at that.

im not scum yo, i just play in a scummy fashion with several dubious wordgames that provide plently of emotional juice. you are scummy. if I am scum, display your logic. cold hard logic.

Pregame RVS, oddity, Flip-flops on read, IC vote to L-1, hops madly speculating about D2 lynches, several emotionally based games and the whole dubious playstyle defense. His playstyle gets him only so far.

[fferyllt]

All of that stuff comes from a town mindset. His play would probably annoy me if I were playing with him, but I could totally see what he was doing and why. Running people up and observing how they react is a valid tactic that I see frequently in mafia. It's not my style of play, but if you think it's inherently scummy then you'll need to make some adjustments playing at MS.

[GuyInFreezer]

bump