In post 1219, RayFrost wrote:In the hypothetical situation where bjc is scum for sure without a doubt with interactions akin to this game, there would have been, I'd imagine, a tipping point at which either bjc's buddy was attempting to consistently raise counterwagons (not just one, as consistently trying to push a single one could come across as scummy via the t.v. issue whereas finding things scummy for multiple people is more liable to be seen as active scumhunting and mere disagreement with the bjc wagon) or given up the ghost and gone for the bus. These wouldn't necessarily happen at the same time, but the simple fact that I haven't seen much evidence of people trying to subtly snipe the wagon's momentum or distract from the wagon itself or even a bus makes me inclined to feel that it's simply an issue of too many low hanging fruit for bjc to be lynched.
Hm, this is actually a valid point. The bjc wagon just kind of... stagnates at L-1 and nothing really happens for a while until ika eventually unvotes, and the pressure slowly shifts to rob and Tier. I see two options here:
1. Scum were already part of the rob wagon and thus letting go of that and trying to pursue a different counterwagon to bjc would just look odd and scummy (especially since rob was the only target that even got close to a counterwagon when bjc was floating around at L-1), so the scummate sticks to the easy target and hopes that that will go through and the heat on bjc will die down.
or
2. The scum felt that bjc was going to go down, and decided to try and bus for cred by joining the wagon.
I will admit that I'm no vote count expert though, so I could be off here. But I feel like you're noting the optimal scum play, not seeing the optimal scum play, and then stating that it couldn't possibly have gone in any other fashion because that would be suboptimal for the scum. If I were to guess, I would say that the scum were one of the voters committed to Rob (Nacho being the main candidate) and trying to push that as an alternate wagon, or after they saw the bjc wagon start to gain momentum, they hop onto it to try and pick up the towncred. (Abbott being the main candidate here).
I'll admit that I'm no vote count analysis expert though, so I will concede that you have a point. Out of curiosity, did you look at the case I put up regarding bjc? What did you think of it?
And honestly, Abbott's post kind of feels like a weak distancing/bussing attempt to me, but I'll get there.
In post 1219, RayFrost wrote:I'm not really following the sakura case. All I can get out of these interactions in terms of things you guys find scummy is "sakura wasn't pressuring ffery" - hardly particularly convincing. Which leads me to think you have more. Please explain.
Well, let's go back and begin with Abbott. He was most certainly coasting; look at his iso. There's a good chunk of fluff there, as well as some softball questions that make it look like Abbott is generating content, but then he never really does anything with it. A colossal chunk of his posts are just him sparring verbally with Nacho, and others are just weak couple-line statements that to me feel more like active-lurking than anything. Give me solid content from that slot where he isn't passively observing the game, taking shots at Nacho whenever the opportunity presents itself.
And then there's his vote on bcj:
In post 355, AbboTT wrote:Alright. Rob clearly isn't going to be pressured, so that vote is useless until we make a decision about lynching him.
I'm comfortable putting bjc at L-1. His self-proclaimed "go with the flow" attitude towards D1 doesn't mesh well with my ideal townie profile. I do like that he isn't actively over-defending himself, but I'm starting to read that as scum playing it cool.
All in all, I think he's a solid choice. We will learn a thing as a vote count analysis and some ISOing should yield good info on D2 regardless of his flip.
My mind could be changed for a Rob lynch if anybody is down for that.
bcj
This vote just feels off to me. He's attacking bcj for "going with the flow" during D1, but I don't really see abbott making huge waves either; he seems content to toss out some weak feelers and post reads every few pages without explaining them. And that last part is just bad; it feels like Abbott is saying "Oh, the rob lynch isn't gaining any momentum here, so I'll just cast this vote now, but by adding this caveat I will be perfectly capable of backing out of it whenever I feel like!" It kind of feels like Abbott is reluctantly bussing here because he thinks the wagon is going to go through, but will happily swing back to the easy lurker lynch if given the chance.
Then Sakura comes in. On a whole her posts aren't awful, but they are incredibly light too; a question here, a bit of pressure there, nothing incredibly substantive. And then she celebrates ffury coming in because she's able to read her, yet not only doesn't try to pressure her at any point or get a dialogue going, but only starts to do it when ffury calls out how strange it is. Then, after asking one pretty weak question, she doesn't go back to it and attack another angle or find something in ffury's response that's worth replying to. It just doesn't feel like genuine sorting. And then you have her weird hypocritical stance on bjc.
That's all that I've got right now; but then it's 3 AM so my mind might be getting a bit foggy at this point.
In post 1219, RayFrost wrote:Hayagatemi (fun fact, this is actually easy to say in Japanese): you say you prefer sakura over tier / pisskop, but what about emmy the big green dog?
Emmy is a stronger townread than either of those two, honestly. So I don't really want that lynch either. :\
