Touhou: Mafia in the Land of Fantasy (Game Over)

GoodCop_BadCop · Post Post #4250 (ISO) » Sun Feb 09, 2014 8:06 pm

I'm waiting to hear back from giffy on if I'm allowed to post logs if I strip timestamps and edit them to not be word for word quotes.

Katarina LeBlanc · Post Post #4251 (ISO) » Sun Feb 09, 2014 8:07 pm

Okay Jaqen, let's see here

My first impulse was to call pie a scumbutt for #617, but I've seriously mellowed on that. If that's what he was going for with his "I'ma take a break" post then he succeeded. I don't like his vote on you but it has an undertone of honesty to the level of certainty he seems to have about it (not much). Maybe I see #652 coming from someone who isn't concerned about letting down a scumteam (because he isn't on one). Weak town now.
I'll reevaluate him/kagami/muffin if we're alive
after you guys flip since all three attempted to kick the wagon on you guys up to 11 in a very short amount of time and what you guys flip will depend how I would look at that.

That was them crumbing that they're going to look back into the reads, pay attention on how they went from their reads from the previous day into wanting to push the lynch super hard on Muffin. Explain what could

possibly

get them to transition from one to the other. (In case you don't know that answer it's an investigation)

Jaqen Hghar · Post Post #4252 (ISO) » Sun Feb 09, 2014 8:14 pm

Does a boy say he has never done anything like this as scum just so he can laugh it up at endgame by saying you gave a clue that everyone missed? A man has seen you do it. You can't fault a man for noting that as a part of your meta.

Pedit. A man has said he picked up on a possible Cop claim. Do you think a man would be the only one to get that vibe?

A man is now saying he saw that as a possible investigation crumb when it was posted, having had the previous thoughts of Cop. Do you think that scum who picked up the Cop crumb wouldn't also pick this up as an investigation crumb?

And then, to bring it a step further, wouldn't it then be all too easy to redirect a town Muffin to a scum for a bad investigation?

A man is fine with lynching Muffin first. A man has screamed as much. But, if a Wolf flips town the noose must needs be fitted to a boy.

zMuffinMan · Post Post #4253 (ISO) » Sun Feb 09, 2014 8:15 pm

cabd wrote:I crumb bulletproof by talking about "how I'll be around for a long time" yada yada.

OK. so why would you crumb it?

cabd wrote:Varsoon claims he re-directed any actions from wayne to me

this happened after varsoon claimed he tried to kill you, and this was while you were scum reading him (or at least you seemed to be scum reading him after this point so presumably you were scum reading him at the time)

and this all leads back to: why are you mentioning kise pointing out your crumb as a reason for you feeling compelled to claim BP early?

GoodCop_BadCop · Post Post #4254 (ISO) » Sun Feb 09, 2014 8:16 pm

In post 4252, Jaqen Hghar wrote:Does a boy say he has never done anything like this as scum just so he can laugh it up at endgame by saying you gave a clue that everyone missed? A man has seen you do it. You can't fault a man for noting that as a part of your meta.

Refresh my memory, sir "master of cabd meta"

Jaqen Hghar · Post Post #4255 (ISO) » Sun Feb 09, 2014 8:16 pm

In post 4250, GoodCop_BadCop wrote:I'm waiting to hear back from giffy on if I'm allowed to post logs if I strip timestamps and edit them to not be word for word quotes.

A man has no need for logs. All he's seen has been in game and should be able to be explained by in game.

GoodCop_BadCop · Post Post #4256 (ISO) » Sun Feb 09, 2014 8:17 pm

In post 4253, zMuffinMan wrote:OK. so why would you crumb it?

Because I wanted to? Because in the end, It was gonna come up sooner or later?

GoodCop_BadCop · Post Post #4257 (ISO) » Sun Feb 09, 2014 8:18 pm

In post 4253, zMuffinMan wrote:and this all leads back to: why are you mentioning kise pointing out your crumb as a reason for you feeling compelled to claim BP early?

As soon as he outed the crumbs, and my (admittedly poorly obvious) reaction to said reveal happened, the cat was out of the bag and there was no point.

GoodCop_BadCop · Post Post #4258 (ISO) » Sun Feb 09, 2014 8:20 pm

In post 4254, GoodCop_BadCop wrote:
In post 4252, Jaqen Hghar wrote:Does a boy say he has never done anything like this as scum just so he can laugh it up at endgame by saying you gave a clue that everyone missed? A man has seen you do it. You can't fault a man for noting that as a part of your meta.
Refresh my memory, sir "master of cabd meta"

...Come to think of it, where have you ever even played with scum-me?

Jaqen Hghar · Post Post #4259 (ISO) » Sun Feb 09, 2014 8:22 pm

In post 4254, GoodCop_BadCop wrote:
In post 4252, Jaqen Hghar wrote:Does a boy say he has never done anything like this as scum just so he can laugh it up at endgame by saying you gave a clue that everyone missed? A man has seen you do it. You can't fault a man for noting that as a part of your meta.
Refresh my memory, sir "master of cabd meta"

A man doesn't make game specific notes. A man takes note of how others act as whatever alignment. The time spent finding those instances would be exhaustive. That's not an answer either, so how about just making this easy with a yes/no instead if deflecting. If a boy is town he has no need for such. A boy isn't the only one to read other games.

Pedit. A boy was scum (SK) in one game on another site

GoodCop_BadCop · Post Post #4260 (ISO) » Sun Feb 09, 2014 8:23 pm

In post 4259, Jaqen Hghar wrote:Pedit. A boy was scum (SK) in one game on another site

...So you're basing your entire "super big match" scum meta case on a single serial killer game on a site with an entirely different playstyle, instead of like... tons of my finished scum games here?

GoodCop_BadCop · Post Post #4261 (ISO) » Sun Feb 09, 2014 8:25 pm

Just so everyone is on the same page, this is the game he's talking about. I was flipped due to mod error.

http://www.sixprizes.com/forums/threads ... ins.10020/

Jaqen Hghar · Post Post #4262 (ISO) » Sun Feb 09, 2014 8:26 pm

In post 4251, Katarina LeBlanc wrote:Okay Jaqen, let's see here
My first impulse was to call pie a scumbutt for #617, but I've seriously mellowed on that. If that's what he was going for with his "I'ma take a break" post then he succeeded. I don't like his vote on you but it has an undertone of honesty to the level of certainty he seems to have about it (not much). Maybe I see #652 coming from someone who isn't concerned about letting down a scumteam (because he isn't on one). Weak town now.
I'll reevaluate him/kagami/muffin if we're alive
after you guys flip since all three attempted to kick the wagon on you guys up to 11 in a very short amount of time and what you guys flip will depend how I would look at that.
That was them crumbing that they're going to look back into the reads, pay attention on how they went from their reads from the previous day into wanting to push the lynch super hard on Muffin. Explain what could
possibly
get them to transition from one to the other. (In case you don't know that answer it's an investigation)

Post 1085 happened D1. That's who House Lush were going to investigate, or at least how a man took it. They were saying to leave those ones alone because they were going to sort them out.

Jaqen Hghar · Post Post #4263 (ISO) » Sun Feb 09, 2014 8:27 pm

In post 4260, GoodCop_BadCop wrote:
In post 4259, Jaqen Hghar wrote:Pedit. A boy was scum (SK) in one game on another site
...So you're basing your entire "super big match" scum meta case on a single serial killer game on a site with an entirely different playstyle, instead of like... tons of my finished scum games here?

A man said he reads other games, just as you do. Now a man adds misrepresentation to deflecting.

Can a boy just answer the question?

Jaqen Hghar · Post Post #4264 (ISO) » Sun Feb 09, 2014 8:28 pm

In post 4252, Jaqen Hghar wrote:Does a boy say he has never done anything like this as scum just so he can laugh it up at endgame by saying you gave a clue that everyone missed? A man has seen you do it. You can't fault a man for noting that as a part of your meta.

Pedit. A man has said he picked up on a possible Cop claim. Do you think a man would be the only one to get that vibe?

A man is now saying he saw that as a possible investigation crumb when it was posted, having had the previous thoughts of Cop. Do you think that scum who picked up the Cop crumb wouldn't also pick this up as an investigation crumb?

And then, to bring it a step further, wouldn't it then be all too easy to redirect a town Muffin to a scum for a bad investigation?

A man is fine with lynching Muffin first. A man has screamed as much. But, if a Wolf flips town the noose must needs be fitted to a boy.

And the others as well?

GoodCop_BadCop · Post Post #4265 (ISO) » Sun Feb 09, 2014 8:28 pm

zMuffinMan · Post Post #4266 (ISO) » Sun Feb 09, 2014 8:32 pm

gcbc wrote:And more importantly, if my bulletproof was a scum role, where's the town night killing action?

Hint: Strongman shot for scum counter-acts an otherwise unkillable town role.

if you are scum, you're probably not bulletproof. or if you are bulletproof, it probably implies SK exists (or, possibly, you are the SK). the ironic thing about this argument is that you're using it to justify your role as town while simultaneously suggesting, "nope, tracker with ninja flip is scum".

gcbc wrote:Setups that contain a doc usually don't have a strongman in them too unless there's straight FTC.

gcbc wrote:True follow the cop, as in a doctor and a cop with no restrictions that can act every night.

cash cabd didn't have a true follow the cop and you included a 1-shot strongman to counter a doc

gcbc wrote:You don't really have a picture of balance considerations here if you think that town BP is an impossible role in this game. Like, town bulletproof is absolutely a thing that exists in setups.

i think it's *possible* your role exists in this setup. but i don't think the amount of claimed anti-kill power in the game makes sense with scum having only a 1-shot strongman, and i don't believe your role is at all a 'counter' to the 1-shot strongman as opposed to, say, the doc / rolestopper being on IC / masons every night

gcbc wrote:Because I wanted to? Because in the end, It was gonna come up sooner or later?

you, who loves gambits, crumbed bulletproof because you wanted to?

GoodCop_BadCop · Post Post #4267 (ISO) » Sun Feb 09, 2014 8:33 pm

In post 4264, Jaqen Hghar wrote:
In post 4252, Jaqen Hghar wrote:Does a boy say he has never done anything like this as scum just so he can laugh it up at endgame by saying you gave a clue that everyone missed? A man has seen you do it. You can't fault a man for noting that as a part of your meta.
I don't do shit like that. It's really fucking stupid because if it gets noticed, you're as good as dead. The closest I've ever gotten to that was when I mocked town INSIDE MY SCUM QT in 1531; because I had been "cleared town" as scum.

Pedit. A man has said he picked up on a possible Cop claim. Do you think a man would be the only one to get that vibe?
No idea. I sure didn't.

A man is now saying he saw that as a possible investigation crumb when it was posted, having had the previous thoughts of Cop. Do you think that scum who picked up the Cop crumb wouldn't also pick this up as an investigation crumb?
Once again, I'm not you, I have no idea if anyone else noticed it. I don't go looking for crumbs prior to flips when I'm town with no protective night action, there's no point.

And then, to bring it a step further, wouldn't it then be all too easy to redirect a town Muffin to a scum for a bad investigation?
You're mistaken on how the mechanic works, though. Gif can confirm this, but in theme games investigations are traditionally done in the form of "Player X is guilty" where X is whichever player they end up on, regardless of their intended target. This came up in Xenogears, where bork clarified it that way, as well.

A man is fine with lynching Muffin first. A man has screamed as much. But, if a Wolf flips town the noose must needs be fitted to a boy.

I like my saki wagon more, it has more support, and also saki's scum outside the night role clusterfuck.

Jaqen Hghar · Post Post #4268 (ISO) » Sun Feb 09, 2014 8:35 pm

I
Does a boy feel he's scum caught for the wrong reasons? A boy tries like seven hell's to not simply say, 'yeah, I've done stuff like that as scum'. Why must needs a boy try so hard to not answer a simple question? A man is trying to see where he's wrong. If that's the best of it, a man is happy with his vote and seriously compels others to follow suit.

GoodCop_BadCop · Post Post #4269 (ISO) » Sun Feb 09, 2014 8:36 pm

In post 4266, zMuffinMan wrote:you, who loves gambits, crumbed bulletproof because you wanted to?

Let me teach you something about my gambits. As scum I plan them out to great lengths. As town, I just leave myself a bunch of scaffolding and work them as need be. Compare Achievement Unlocked (scum) where everything was planned prior to day one opening in the scum QT; and Paraodx Prime (town) where I made up the survivor claim on the spot in LYLO. What scum gambit is there in claiming a role that won't die KNOWING I'll have to self-lynch if we make it to the day before lylo?

GoodCop_BadCop · Post Post #4270 (ISO) » Sun Feb 09, 2014 8:38 pm

In post 4268, Jaqen Hghar wrote:'yeah, I've done stuff like that as scum'

...Ive just answered that, for fuck's sake. Not in the thread, it's stupid. If there's any taunting, it goes into the scum QT for later, or once the game is actually won. You never slip out of character prior to the win, bad shit goes down and HAS for players that do before.

Jaqen Hghar · Post Post #4271 (ISO) » Sun Feb 09, 2014 8:38 pm

In post 4267, GoodCop_BadCop wrote:
And then, to bring it a step further, wouldn't it then be all too easy to redirect a town Muffin to a scum for a bad investigation?
You're mistaken on how the mechanic works, though. Gif can confirm this, but in theme games investigations are traditionally done in the form of "Player X is guilty" where X is whichever player they end up on, regardless of their intended target. This came up in Xenogears, where bork clarified it that way, as well.

TomAto, tomahto. Redirect lush to a scumbutt. Same results.

GoodCop_BadCop · Post Post #4272 (ISO) » Sun Feb 09, 2014 8:39 pm

In post 4270, GoodCop_BadCop wrote:
In post 4268, Jaqen Hghar wrote:'yeah, I've done stuff like that as scum'
...Ive just answered that, for fuck's sake. Not in the thread, it's stupid. If there's any taunting, it goes into the scum QT for later, or once the game is actually won. You never slip out of character prior to the win, bad shit goes down and HAS for players that do before.

Huh, or maybe It didn't post? The only time I've taunted like that was in mini 1531. And it was in the scum QT, not in the thread until victory was assured.

GoodCop_BadCop · Post Post #4273 (ISO) » Sun Feb 09, 2014 8:40 pm

In post 4271, Jaqen Hghar wrote:
In post 4267, GoodCop_BadCop wrote:
And then, to bring it a step further, wouldn't it then be all too easy to redirect a town Muffin to a scum for a bad investigation?
You're mistaken on how the mechanic works, though. Gif can confirm this, but in theme games investigations are traditionally done in the form of "Player X is guilty" where X is whichever player they end up on, regardless of their intended target. This came up in Xenogears, where bork clarified it that way, as well.
TomAto, tomahto. Redirect lush to a scumbutt. Same results.

Okay let's say varsoon is a redirector, Gif is scum, lush is a cop, muffin is town.

Lush sends in "Cop Muffin"
Varsoon sends in "Redirect all actions from muffin to Gif"

At the end of the night, Lush gets:
"Gif is guilty"

zMuffinMan · Post Post #4274 (ISO) » Sun Feb 09, 2014 8:42 pm

gcbc wrote:What scum gambit is there in claiming a role that won't die KNOWING I'll have to self-lynch if we make it to the day before lylo?

i can think of a couple reasons you might have done it as scum (like avoiding potential cross faction kills or claiming BP because you're

actually

BP scum and it

is

your fake-claim or claiming it because you're SK or for reasons i'm not currently thinking of). i don't believe you actually thought you'd have to be policy lynched when you claimed it - in fact, one of the reasons you say you claimed is that you apparently thought you were as good as confirmed town. so this question doesn't make sense