Touhou: Mafia in the Land of Fantasy (Game Over)

[zMuffinMan]

I looked specifically at the wagons leading that were not muffin. GCBC is one of those town counter wagons.

you're claiming the dramonic wagon was a counter-wagon to mine, right? when my wagon was already basically dead at the time that the wagon on dramonic took off, and it's quite clear that, if anything, it was a counter to GCBC's wagon and not mine

the only wagon that actually ran counter to mine was GCBC's so if you're making a point about that one, do it or shut up about it

Look at who put the hammer on it. Why so defensive of AD?

lol

you're either trolling orrrrrrrrrrrrrr you're scum

[pieguyn]

oh and the other thing is

why would mafia leave the IC alive?

IMO they're leaving him alive so that he and Cabd can 1v1 each other and make a shitton of noise. and this makes no sense if Cabd is scum. the NKs point towards scum killing people who are confirmed or obvtown (Kaze, me and it got blocked, Kagami). the IC would fit the bill for this just fine. but they haven't killed him yet?

[zMuffinMan]

do you realize the motivation behind defensively double posting is almost always the attacker being accurate

haha

no

that's how i post and you should really know that by now. it happens a lot when i have additional thoughts that i think about after i hit submit

Lush sounded 100% confident you were scum re: 3 scum down

newsflash: that also implies they were confident AD was scum - this is what people do; they act confident in their reads.

there is no way in hell Lush would have ever investigated Kagami. she was obvtown. and how is "You will" not a cop guilty crumb?

ummmmmmmmmmm, read any bork post from D1 and you'll see how wrong you are

and how the fuck is "you will" a crumb?

your entire argument is basically predicting how a dead player would act.

another newsflash: so is yours.

and from what I could tell the inventor has nothing but investigatives so far

yesterday kise said he could give bulletproofs

meanwhile, there hasn't been a single mafia investigative so far

and...?

[zMuffinMan]

why would mafia leave the IC alive?

i'd rather not delve into wifom but there are a number of possible reasons scum could be leaving cabd alive, from fearing a wasted kill due to a protective role being on the IC (which woulda been the case N1, for example) to cabd actually being scum and worrying about whether or not a kill on jaqen would implicate him

here's a similar question: you've been a claimed mason since D1, why are you being kept alive?

[zMuffinMan]

leaving jaqen alive*

[pieguyn]

newsflash: that also implies they were confident AD was scum - this is what people do; they act confident in their reads.

ok so suppose you're a cop and you wanna get as many results as possible. N1 you get a guilty on zMuffinMan. what do you do?

if you tunnel the shit out of him the next day, out of complete nowhere (if you look at their ISO their read on you came out of nowhere) and he flips scum then scum will catch on to what happened and NK you. so nope

so they obviously have to be somewhat open to other options in order to stay under the radar

and how the fuck is "you will" a crumb?

"I don't see zmuffin scum"
"you will"
they are quite obviously saying they have inside knowledge (cop guilty). and that's backed up by their comment about them having a different perspective of the gamestate

another newsflash: so is yours.

mine is based off a general template of how cops act and crumb. yours is based on specific knowledge of a player which you could have just made up. it's not the same thing at all

yesterday kise said he could give bulletproofs

ok, I'll bite. link me to where he said this and what GCBC's reaction to it was

for the record GCBC makes sense as mafia bulletproof to prevent the SK from demolishing the entire scumteam by himself, that's why I'm standing here

and...?

if it was me designing the setup I'd roudn out the scum PRs with an investigative one. -> at least 1 investigative PR on the scumteam. none have flipped yet, so we're still looking for one. mafia tracker seems like a good bet

if not, what investigative do they have on the scumteam given there's been at least one of practically everything else?

[pieguyn]

why would mafia leave the IC alive?

i'd rather not delve into wifom but there are a number of possible reasons scum could be leaving cabd alive, from fearing a wasted kill due to a protective role being on the IC (which woulda been the case N1, for example) to cabd actually being scum and worrying about whether or not a kill on jaqen would implicate him

here's a similar question: you've been a claimed mason since D1, why are you being kept alive?

N2 they killed me and it failed bc Kagami and so N3 they went to kill Kagami

as for N1, there's a whole set of possibilities, which include

1. my reads suck. notice how I was trying to derail the Gaiden lynch
2. the other mason hadn't flipped yet and they could throw a bunch of WIFOM considering how shit I was playing
3. fear of an investigative or protective role
etc.

[pieguyn]

speaking of mafia tracker, GIF put

the exact same role

in AA:MFA

so it's obviously smth he's done before

[zMuffinMan]

ok so suppose you're a cop and you wanna get as many results as possible. N1 you get a guilty on zMuffinMan. what do you do?

firstly, that's not how they play cop roles - like that's been made clear already

secondly, they were an ODD NIGHT cop who was thought of as obvtown by a lot of players, the chances of them making it to D4 were slim, so if they had a guilty why wouldn't they just out it (you know, like how they normally play cop roles)?

they are quite obviously saying they have inside knowledge (cop guilty). and that's backed up by their comment about them having a different perspective of the gamestate

no that's not them saying they have inside knowledge, it's them saying the same shit they were saying about AD D2.

and no it's not backed up by their comment about a different perspective that was literally an entirely different conversation. like, READ what kagami said and then read the whole line in response to kagami <- they are literally saying that while kagami thinks it's unlikely a vig would shoot either kaze or serene, the vig might have a different perspective on the game

mine is based off a general template of how cops act and crumb

general template for how a cop acts with a guilty: they get their guilty lynched, they don't stand idly by and lynch other players

ok, I'll bite. link me to where he said this and what GCBC's reaction to it was

here and GCBC didn't react to it i believe (i prodded them to talk about it and the other claimed investigative roles but i'm not sure they ever did)

if it was me designing the setup I'd roudn out the scum PRs with an investigative one. -> at least 1 investigative PR on the scumteam. none have flipped yet, so we're still looking for one. mafia tracker seems like a good bet

if not, what investigative do they have on the scumteam given there's been at least one of practically everything else?

it entirely depends on how the setup is designed. they could have a rolecop, they could have a vanilla cop, or they might not even have an investigative role and just have a bunch of counters to town/SK (like godfather, bulletproof, etc etc)

also if you think a tracker is a good scum role in a role madness game where a majority of the player list has night actions of some sort then lol. and if you think i'd investigate the players i investigated as a scum tracker, then lol.

[zMuffinMan]

N2 they killed me and it failed bc Kagami and so N3 they went to kill Kagami

i actually think lush being a cross kill (or SK being odd night) is far more likely than you being the N2 kill

also the fact that you can list reasons you might not have been killed and not realise that similar reasons apply to why the IC is still alive baffles me

speaking of mafia tracker, GIF put the exact same role in AA:MFA

so it's obviously smth he's done before

i actually looked at that setup. do you know why there was a scum tracker in that setup? because it was countered by the SK ninja

and you know what's flipped so far? a scum ninja

so unless your argument is that i'm a scum tracker with a scum ninja, it should be rather obvious how obvtown this makes me.

[Jaqen Hghar]

oh and the other thing is

why would mafia leave the IC alive?

IMO they're leaving him alive so that he and Cabd can 1v1 each other and make a shitton of noise. and this makes no sense if Cabd is scum.

Is it keeping ProHawk and cabd alive? Makes plenty of sense if you look at it that way.

[zMuffinMan]

also pie

if you look at their ISO their read on you came out of nowhere

this isn't true, either - 2 of the 3 heads had a scum read on me. and they weren't confident about AD D1, either

[pieguyn]

fucking hell

I want you to be town but you've burned me once before (IN doesn't count btw :>)

you won't burn me again will you

like him ignoring it outright is the easiest action from a scum POV. but at the same time I keep seeing parallels to how you're arguing here vs. marketplace. and I have literally never seen Cabd blow up like this

[zMuffinMan]

i don't think cabd's blow-up is alignment related. i believe he's frustrated at wayne, and i believe he's also frustrated at other things, but i think he'd be frustrated about it regardless of alignment so it means nothing to me. or what blow-up are you referring to here?

[zMuffinMan]

and i'm not sure there's anything i can say to you about your read on me that you're not going to think is possibly manipulative

make up your own mind about it

[pieguyn]

i don't think cabd's blow-up is alignment related. i believe he's frustrated at wayne, and i believe he's also frustrated at other things, but i think he'd be frustrated about it regardless of alignment so it means nothing to me. or what blow-up are you referring to here?

pretty much how he's played the whole game. he's been way more emotional than I think he'd be as scum

first off with morph and what happened there (then again ffery hates scum so <_>)

and then him being pissed off at Kise outing his crumb

and now the whole thing with wayne

I have no idea

[zMuffinMan]

the stuff with ffery vs mollie and cabd vs wayne is shit i could see coming from them regardless of their alignment. wayne makes for a... very easy person to either genuinely get angry at or fake getting angry at (see what i did in imperishable night, for example - i wasn't really angry at him but it was relatively easy to pretend i was and i probably would have blown up at him in a similar way if i were actually angry)

as for getting pissed off about kise outing the crumb, i'm more interested in why they even crumbed it in the first place and why they didn't just deny that it was a crumb or ignore it - like, making a big deal out of it didn't make a lot of sense to me

[zMuffinMan]

i still have the same issues i had with cabd yesterday

i don't get why he'd crumb BP as BP, then make a big deal out of someone incorrectly pointing out the crumb instead of denying it or ignoring it (coz, let's face it, no one woulda taken kise calling them a treestump seriously if cabd hadn't made a big deal out of it). i also don't believe this woulda motivated cabd-town-bp to claim early d2. none of his play regarding his role and claim make much sense to me and i haven't liked his responses about it so far. i have a theory that he might be a godfather trying to scare off the SK - or it's possible he's legitimately bulletproof scum.

i had an exchange with him some time early-mid yesterday that made me waver a bit on my read on him. he said he was going to read up on my scum games but i'm not sure he ever did. or at least if he did, he never talked about it and it didn't appear in his read on me in his giant reads list he later gave. also woulda liked to have seen his response to desp's big wall on why he was bullshitting his read on me coz how he responded to that and how his read did or didn't change because of it woulda helped with sorting him but that never happened

there are a couple other minor things that worried me (like his read on nacho having to do with the mollie-ffery stuff even though nacho wasn't around to intervene in that argument - amaranth's first post came like 20 pages after ffery had quit and i dunno how cabd forgot that if it was part of how he formed a read on nacho. and the amount of claimed anti kill power doesn't make sense)

only thing that makes me hesitant to vote him is i'm still trying to figure out what's going on with saki vs gcbc

coz saki is playing exactly how i'd expect him to play as scum here

[bubbajack8]

zmuffin is scum and Dan is the SK. I'm interested in what Jaqen has to say about bubba bc if he has something he might end up being the last scum (although I'm still sticking with 15-5-1)

<3 besides the me being scum thing.

I looked specifically at the wagons leading that were not muffin. GCBC is one of those town counter wagons.

you're claiming the dramonic wagon was a counter-wagon to mine, right? when my wagon was already basically dead at the time that the wagon on dramonic took off, and it's quite clear that, if anything, it was a counter to GCBC's wagon and not mine

the only wagon that actually ran counter to mine was GCBC's so if you're making a point about that one, do it or shut up about it

Look at who put the hammer on it. Why so defensive of AD?

lol

you're either trolling orrrrrrrrrrrrrr you're scum

I'm claiming GCBC and muffin was a counter to you. I'm claiming both will be town flips. Why did you drop your argument with pie to argue with me? Are you losing that argument?

[Varsoon]

I'll support a pie.
VOTE: zMuffin

[zMuffinMan]

I'm claiming GCBC and muffin was a counter to you. I'm claiming both will be town flips. Why did you drop your argument with pie to argue with me? Are you losing that argument?

who did you mistake my name for here?

also fucking loling at your questions

[zMuffinMan]

varsoon

iamdisappoint.jpg

[bubbajack8]

I'm claiming GCBC and muffin was a counter to you. I'm claiming both will be town flips. Why did you drop your argument with pie to argue with me? Are you losing that argument?

who did you mistake my name for here?

also fucking loling at your questions

GCBC and dram.

[zMuffinMan]

dram wasn't a counter to me, though. if he was a counter-wagon, it was a counter-wagon to GCBC (who was at L-2 when the dram wagon started)

but OK. say you lynch me, i'm town, what do you make of it, then? or who are you gonna push as scum?

[Varsoon]

varsoon

iamdisappoint.jpg

I'm sorry man, your avatar scares me
and then there's all this evidence
IM PROBABLY GETTING DUPED BY SCUM THOUGH