The Fall of Gondolin Mafia: Game Over (The Tale of Gondolin)

[shos]

I like desz

[PeregrineV]

Actually, you know what? That's bullshit, JacobSavage. If I ask you what was the source of a Townread at a certain point and you give me an answer that has nothing to do with the time you posted the read at, it means the original read was made up and you don't have a good reason for it. (Furthermore, it's not like scum don't use meta and you know it, the reason the meta bit was good was because chamber looked for possible non-scum motivation before making accusations.)

UNVOTE: TheIrishPope
VOTE: JacobSavage

Tierce's Jacob-is-scum scale: +2

Jokes are great, but explaining the two Townreads would be even better! Why was chamber Town as of this post

He actually took time to read an old game and posting something quite meaningful.

See post below, which was why the "as of this post" line was here. Try again.

Tierce's Jacob-is-scum scale: +1 (+3)

(Plus you called me Possibly a Scummy Scum Butt and that's just Not Acceptable.)

Tierce's Jacob-is-scum scale: +.5 (+3.5)

(Furthermore, it's not like scum don't use meta and you know it, the reason the meta bit was good was because chamber looked for possible non-scum motivation before making accusations.)

ummm... its not like his language had been broken or stilted this game? If anything what I did kept open the possibility of him being scum instead of closing it... which is the opposite (though less extreme) of what you said implied.

I didn't say you closed that possibility, I said (or implied) you were trying to figure out what his style in another game might mean in this game.

Actually, you know what? That's bullshit, JacobSavage. If I ask you what was the source of a Townread at a certain point and you give me an answer that has nothing to do with the time you posted the read at, it means the original read was made up and you don't have a good reason for it. (Furthermore, it's not like scum don't use meta and you know it, the reason the meta bit was good was because chamber looked for possible non-scum motivation before making accusations.)

UNVOTE: TheIrishPope
VOTE: JacobSavage

mmmmm this doesn't follow. town can't be mistaken about their reasons of having a townread? it's just as likely that he forgot

He "forgot"

within ten hours

of making that list, and within nine hours of saying he has a mild Townread on chamber?

Yeah, I'm not buying that. And I'd prefer it if you'd let him speak for himself before presenting handy excuses.

Tierce's Jacob-is-scum scale: +2 (+5.5)

Nothing, in principle. In practice, you're meddling. Let people speak for themselves before you intervene. I second guess myself enough, I don't need the "help" of others to do so.

Tierce's Jacob-is-scum scale: +1 (+6.5)

siridanilot, for the last fucking time:

Shut
the
hell
up.

YOU have no concept of what a team game is. YOU have no charisma whatsoever, and keep doing the same noisy bullshit you've been doing since the start of the game. You're not actually pushing for consolidation, because every single one of your posts is a torment to read. You're never going to manage to get the players to work together, so be quiet and let the grown ups do their thing. Post when you have something

new

to say.

Gaaaaah. This isn't the Fall of Gondolin, this is Morgoth's cry over and over and over again.


JacobSavage--let's play spot the difference between chamber and CES's "neighborhood" posts.


Spyspy:

Now that you made me go back and actually read it I'm not surprised at it bodes well for the future.

However actually trying to engage in something in this morass is a good sign.

Chamber taking the time to go meta as scum at this point looking for a bite under what would have been the strangest pretenses ever is waay more likely town and scum.

The English-Ur-quan translator failed in these sentences, I suspect. I think I know what you mean in each, but could you just clarify them?


PEdit: O hai!

Slow and steady and etc., I know, but humor me and be not-so-cryptic for a little while. Why SSK?

Tierce's Jacob-is-scum scale: +1 (+7.5)

It's pretty damn obvious that if I thought one of them was scum I would be voting them. Natirasha's Post 464 was Town irritation.

Desperado, you're reaching

hard

with the "SSK would only be reading Natirasha if he's Town". I refer to my scumreads' reads as "true" reads all the time to be practical, that doesn't mean anything.


JacobSavage's blatant "memory lapse" in less than half a day is still scummy and there should be more votes on him and CES is wrong.

Tierce's Jacob-is-scum scale: +3 (+10.5)

It was still pointless. The kind of stupid "oh, I'll wing it, I haven't thought that far ahead" reaction test that people so love these days.

Can I get someone interested in this lovely JacobSavage wagon? No? How about with the fact that he's questioning Espeonage about why he chose to do something here that was obviously a premade decision and that has nothing to do with his alignment? He's asking him why he chose to claim VT PRIOR TO THE START OF THE GAME. Oh, I don't know, the answer "because Espeonage is an idiot" might be relevant to his alignment before he even gets a role PM. You can judge someone on WHY they choose to follow the decision they made on an isolated, no-role-PM context, but not on why they made the decision in the first place and it should be obvious why.

Discussing CES Today is a waste of time.

SSK has a far more developed meta assessment of me than I expected. Where've you been hiding? Bring Natirasha over and vote with the cool kids.

Tierce's Jacob-is-scum scale: +2 (+12.5)

It was still pointless. The kind of stupid "oh, I'll wing it, I haven't thought that far ahead" reaction test that people so love these days.

Can I get someone interested in this lovely JacobSavage wagon? No? How about with the fact that he's questioning Espeonage about why he chose to do something here that was obviously a premade decision and that has nothing to do with his alignment? He's asking him why he chose to claim VT PRIOR TO THE START OF THE GAME. Oh, I don't know, the answer "because Espeonage is an idiot" might be relevant to his alignment before he even gets a role PM. You can judge someone on WHY they choose to follow the decision they made on an isolated, no-role-PM context, but not on why they made the decision in the first place and it should be obvious why.

Discussing CES Today is a waste of time.

SSK has a far more developed meta assessment of me than I expected. Where've you been hiding? Bring Natirasha over and vote with the cool kids.

Tierce!

First off, I've done

way

too much meta research on you for my own good.

Secondly, I just don't feel as if the JacobSavage wagon is viable today. What do you think of Esp?

Oh, also, why do you think discussing CES today is a waste of time? He at least needs to be discussed.

SSK!

We can still conjure up a wagon. Less feelings about viability, more votin' him. Let's make it viable in our hour of need.

CES is a tough nut to crack and would only end in a deadline lynch on someone else that is not Mr. Savage because people would be all waffly about Mr. Nibbler's one-liners. Discussing CES would be a distraction and not really help Today's resolution, because THAT lynch is not viable at all (hint: I'm not in it, it ain't happening). Besides, courtesy and what chamber said~ I can't read himwell enough to make a decision on D1, better to accept him as Town until I start reaching for the tinfoil headgear.

Espeonage is an idiot and probably a Town one. Of all the compromise options, it's the least bad one due to the claim, but I'd rather be lynching scum.

Tierce's Jacob-is-scum scale: +1 (+13.5)

I did say a role PM can change your mind on how you act, but inquiring about the initial, rolePMless reasoning is just faking scumhunting. It's something that has no relevance to the game.

I'm pretty sure I've been calling your wagon bad ever since I said that Reck's description of SpyreX made sense for a Town player who didn't realize why SpyreX is acting this way (hint: it's my fault). You're accusing TheIrishPope of being incompetent, not scum.

SpySpy! Good AND perfect lynch right here.

Tierce's Jacob-is-scum scale: +1 (+14.5)

I'm as obvTown as they come and that is a ridiculous vote with such timing as to not even result in proper wagon analysis. Vote Jacob.

Tierce's Jacob-is-scum scale: +1 (+15.5)

Why, TIP? Because I didn't bother to answer your reads question?

How is any of that is relevant right now? I'm voting the wagon that I think is on scum, I pushed it to where it is (hey look, someone who actually has logical skill and the charisma to back it up~), I really have no business haring off with other reads. Some of them are obvious as it is, and if you can't tell them by now, you're not going to get any more enlightenment through a reads list.

I'm being cryptic because I can and because there's really no point in discussing other things right now. Deal with it.


JacobSavage: if sirdanilot's (nonexistent) wagon is the "best of a bad bunch", why do you follow it up with this:

Literally the only reason I'd vote ANY of them is to avoid a no lynch and 24 hours is long enough to get a decent wagon on someone actually scummy.

Who is "someone actually scummy" and how do you expect to get them lynched? Where do you want this wagon?

Tierce's Jacob-is-scum scale: +1 (+16.5)

You know what, Tierce? I'm just going to say it. You're being pretty anti-town here. You're being selfish. You're claiming the whole JacobSavage wagon is your doing. You keep repeating just how "town" you are. But you're not the lynch for today.

I'll let JacobSavage be the lynch for today. But only because that's the real main wagon and it's deadline. It's a wagon that's based off of false premises by a bad wagon leader.

Vote: JacobSavage

Uhm, no. I did push the wagon, that's obvious--it was at two people and going nowhere until I did something about it. And if you've actually meta'd me, you know that yes, I am obvTown as Town and hardly have problems saying so, and that I push my suspects and manage to summon up wagons. You're putting it like I'm smothering the game with that stuff, when what I'm doing is trying to push my preferred lynch through (and doing it pretty successfully, apparently!).

How is any of that is relevant right now? I'm voting the wagon that I think is on scum, I pushed it to where it is (

hey look, someone who actually has logical skill and the charisma to back it up

~), I really have no business haring off with other reads. Some of them are obvious as it is, and if you can't tell them by now, you're not going to get any more enlightenment through a reads list.

I'm being cryptic because I can

and because there's really no point in discussing other things right now. Deal with it.

Will this continue the entire game? Let me know so I can act accordingly.



JS wagon is awful, but I want to see where it goes anyway.

VOTE: JacobSavage

The former is a jab at the Messieurs who keep clamoring for wagons without any real effective attempt at pushing them. Yeah, it's mean. I'm tired of them.

Me being cryptic? Nah. But there's really no point to do otherwise at this moment. When my reads are worth sharing more thoroughly, sure.


I keep seeing a lot of people saying JacobSavage is a bad wagon (why?) even as they compromise onto it because it's the main wagon. It being the main wagon is a self-fulfilling prophecy, y'know.

Tierce's Jacob-is-scum scale: +1 (+17.5)

JacobSavage--we need a claim. There be hammer-happy people here, and the clock has run out.

Tierce's Jacob-is-scum scale: +0 (+17.5)

No. Let him claim first.

UNVOTE: JacobSavage

Tierce's Jacob-is-scum scale: +0 (+17.5)

I am Glorfindel, Town Bodyguard.

Basically I fought the Balrog but lost but in doing so I saved Idril Celebrindal.

Tierce's Jacob-is-scum scale: -25 (-7.5)

Day2:

Tierce's Jacob-is-scum scale: N/A (confirmed town)

Day3:

Tierce's Jacob-is-scum scale: N/A (confirmed town)

Day4:

Tierce's Jacob-is-scum scale: N/A (confirmed town)

In my experience, rarely does one get off the roller coaster at the top of the hill.
Exceptions are confirmations (cop innocent, etc.) of alignment.
I saw no sign of that, and Jacob's alignment was scum.

[PeregrineV]

ABR is conftown
Scum have a jailkeeper. A stupid one, lol.
Well done ABR; you got lucky; lucky in that your actions didnt hurt town - and with that, they helped town.

As scum, my priority is Town-looking targets, because they're not lynchable--everyone in a game will likely suspect you at one point or another, so it's pretty stupid to leave a paper trail like that. shos and you would likely have been kill targets for me if I were scum.

[PeregrineV]

Everyone has posted and no one has refuted my initial case on Tierce. Then, when I went back to look some more, it only reinforced it. Furthermore, no one has a single better reason for any other player.

No one "refuted" your case because there isn't anything to refute, it's just a recitation of the facts. Tierce pushed JS early, forced him to claim along with someone who flipped scum, and then largely ignored him the rest of the game. This is scummy...why?

I want you to answer that.
What can be gained by getting the Mafia rolecop as a claimed bodyguard on day1?
It's Jacob, so chances are people want to lynch him anyway. A claim fends that off.
He claimed PR. But it's the kind that dies when it succeeds, so another way to fend off the lynch.
Everyone is skeptical, and harasses him about it all game, EXCEPT Tierce, who pushed him all the way up to the claim.
Tell me why this behavior is NOT scummy?

He was a claimed BG in a large game, which is exactly the kind of thing that resolves itself and isn't worth wasting time on and, lo and behold, he fucked up his night actions! Imagine that.

Did he fuck up his night actions? He claimed Bodyguard and flipped mafia rolecop. Explain the realtionship between his claim and his actual night actions.

And I

have

presented better reasons for sirdan, I've just been consistently stonewalled by an endless string of shitty pseudo-town clears for him, the latest being your "you think sirdanscum saw JSscum drowning and forced him to claim while still distancing? Impossible!" track.

OK, give me your rational recitation of the facts where sirdanilot is scum. Because this would actually be the first time I've gotten anything like that from you.

[ActionDan]

Waiting for a teirce post

[shos]

wow these last few pages are really good
I'm waiting for Tierce as well, now.

[sirdanilot]

Desp's case is so bullshitty I see no reason to respond to it.

ActionDan may be scum, based on what the others said about him. I kinda like his play so I didnt really want to look at him (I know, very bad of me, sue me) but maybe I cannot ignore him any longer. Still voting either tierce or esp today though.

[Desperado]

I want you to answer that.
What can be gained by getting the Mafia rolecop as a claimed bodyguard on day1?
It's Jacob, so chances are people want to lynch him anyway. A claim fends that off.
He claimed PR. But it's the kind that dies when it succeeds, so another way to fend off the lynch.
Everyone is skeptical, and harasses him about it all game, EXCEPT Tierce, who pushed him all the way up to the claim.
Tell me why this behavior is NOT scummy?

Because it's exactly what I would expect Tierce to do as town as well. Jacob claiming BG sorted him and Tierce moved on to more important things.

Did he fuck up his night actions? He claimed Bodyguard and flipped mafia rolecop. Explain the realtionship between his claim and his actual night actions.

First he claimed to have BG'd "the obvious target" on N2 and N3, and then later he said he did ABR N2 and AD N3. It played a large part in pushing his wagon.

OK, give me your rational recitation of the facts where sirdanilot is scum. Because this would actually be the first time I've gotten anything like that from you.

I'm pretty sure it'd be the first time you've ever gotten anything like that from me in any game ever.

[Tierce]

I'll be here in a few hours, but I still have some stuff to do before I have free time.

@Plum: V/LA until Monday 24.

[Plum]

There he became weary from the strangling heat and was beaten down by a great demon, even Gothmog lord of Balrogs, captain of Morgoth. But lo! Ecthelion, whose face was of the pallor of grey steel and whose shield-arm hung limp at his side, strode above him as he fell; and that Gnome drave at the demon, yet did not give him his death, getting rather a wound to his sword-arm that his weapon left his grasp.

VOTE COUNT 5:4

Espeonage

- 1 - SpyreX

ActionDan

- 1 - Tierce

Desperado

- 1 - Cogito Ergo Sum

Tierce

- 3 - PeregrineV, sirdanilot, shos

sirdanilot

- 1 - Desperado

Not voting (3)

: ActionDan, Espeonage, Elscouta,

With 10 players alive it takes

6

votes to lynch.

Deadline is in

(expired on 2014-02-25 20:05:00)

Tierce

's V/LA is noted.

[Espeonage]

Vote: Tierce

Nothing really retracting from that read.

[Tierce]

Tierce you're drivin me nuts this game.

ActionDan, PeregrineV, profit

AD - scum means JS tossed him out in his nonsense night action claims which I have a hard time buying assuming rationality but..JS so maybe.
But then PV is the one who insta-votes him for it?

One man down, another on the block and two others (more likely than not the entire rest of the scumteam) throw themselves out in a way that isn't gonna stop that lynch or even really make them look better for it?

I have a hard time choking that down.

You said it yourself--JacobSavage claimed to protect ActionDan when he had just said that he had done the "obvious choice"--whatever the obvious choice was, it was not Action "One-Liner" Dan. shos was talking about his result--and any member of a scumteam would already know that JacobSavage didn't target ABR N2 if shos is Town. So tell me why Peregrine scum wouldn't immediately toss his hat in the ring for a bus when the lynch is inevitable?

If tierce doesn't answer why he didn't see that Shadoweh was scum at the point I described then I'm not changing my vote

Oh my, I'm shaking.

Dahling, you've been praising my play far too well, I don't want that to end, so do go on doing what you are. If Shadoweh was so obvious scum, care to explain why ActionDan, who knows her better than I do, didn't spot it and essentially asked her to convince him to vote for you on D2? Either he's scum, or it wasn't obvious, and there was no wagon on her so it certainly wasn't my opinion alone that kept her unlynched before D3. Your bitching about it is still not my problem.


Elscouta: I guess? You'd probably be better served looking through my MD posts. This is a position I hold, though it doesn't necessarily correspond to the kills I make as scum because y'know, partners. IIRC, that was one of reasons I argued for Nacho's death in The Red Wedding. Point being: your reasoning is wrong because I don't support "people suspect

me

, let's kill them" as scum, so that kill pattern isn't mine.


If PeregrineV is Town and can't see the advantage of focusing on people who haven't claimed a protective role on D1, I don't know what else to say. He's saying that as scum, I drove my Rolecop buddy to claim Bodyguard on D1, knowing all kinds of roles that could catch him in a lie, from any sort of tracking abilities to investigative ones, in a

Plum

game of all things? He claimed Bodyguard, I believed him, I moved the fuck on.

Do you want an actual recap of D1?

VOTE COUNT 1:15

Shadoweh

- 1 - PeregrineV

Natirasha

- 1 - Desperado

Espeonage

- 7 - SpyreX, Shadoweh, Natirasha, Cogito Ergo Sum, sirdanilot, MafiaSSK, ActionDan

sirdanilot

- 1 - Albert B. Rampage

JacobSavage

- 2 - Tierce, Elscouta

MafiaSSK

- 2 - chamber, TheIrishPope

ActionDan

- 1 - shos

PeregrineV

- 1 - Aegor

Not voting (2)

: JacobSavage, Espeonage

With 18 players alive it takes

10

votes to lynch.
Deadline is in

(expired on 2014-01-23 01:00:00)

.

VOTE: TheIrishPope

VOTE: Natirasha

##Vote: TIP

Can I get someone interested in this lovely JacobSavage wagon? No? How about with the fact that he's questioning Espeonage about why he chose to do something here that was obviously a premade decision and that has nothing to do with his alignment? He's asking him why he chose to claim VT PRIOR TO THE START OF THE GAME. Oh, I don't know, the answer "because Espeonage is an idiot" might be relevant to his alignment before he even gets a role PM. You can judge someone on WHY they choose to follow the decision they made on an isolated, no-role-PM context, but not on why they made the decision in the first place and it should be obvious why.

They were starting to push a TIP wagon. TIP was Town. Espeonage was being wagoned. Regardless of Espeonage's alignment, why on Earth would Tierce-scum derail a nice double-wagon on people who are not her Rolecop buddy to push said scum Rolecop? If Espeonage is scum and I was scum looking for a bus, his wagon was ripe and awesome and effortless. If Espeonage is Town and I was scum, I would have declined two Town wagons to push a scum PR in a likely power-heavy game and force him into a terrible claim that was bound to screw him over. It'd be a high-risk, low-profit move. As sirdanilot so eloquently put it, I am a goddess at this game and goddesses of practicality don't make errors of judgment like that.

I'm Town. I bought the claim, and saying that "everyone doubted JacobSavage's claim EXCEPT Tierce" is pretty obviously not what happened given how D2 and D3 played out.

But do continue to argue about me dropping a push on a player whose claim I accepted as probably-true-and-not-my-problem-anyway. How many people on that D1 wagon are you going to lynch because they didn't go after Jacob before late D3?

Vote: Tierce

Nothing really retracting from that read.

This should be real good.


---


Desperado: I don't think Shadoweh was bussing at the end of D2. It's much easier to see the interaction between her and ActionDan at that point as scum theater (including the whole "why isn't sirdanilot around to protest his lynch at 4:30 am!" between them) than her jump on the wagon at my behest (oooh, fancy vocabulary, it's evidence of all my Amazon goddess powers) on her scumbuddy, when we know she could easily pretend to be asleep instead of bussing.

And I'm

brilliant

at this game, so you should vote with me and wait until sirdanilot inevitably fucks this up in LyLo.

[sirdanilot]

That a boy

Els and AD stop non/voting

[Tierce]

And now, for mountains and lakes and puppies. I should be around in the evenings.

[sirdanilot]

If tierce doesn't answer why he didn't see that Shadoweh was scum at the point I described then I'm not changing my vote

Oh my, I'm shaking.

Dahling, you've been praising my play far too well, I don't want that to end, so do go on doing what you are. If Shadoweh was so obvious scum, care to explain why ActionDan, who knows her better than I do, didn't spot it and essentially asked her to convince him to vote for you on D2? Either he's scum, or it wasn't obvious, and there was no wagon on her so it certainly wasn't my opinion alone that kept her unlynched before D3. Your bitching about it is still not my problem.

I am talking about day 3, not day 2. If you reread the events on day 2 the only obvious conclusion was that Shadoweh was scum.
Why did you not see that immediately?

Still not changin my vote, and you're getting awful close to a lynch, so why not just answer?


Elscouta: I guess? You'd probably be better served looking through my MD posts. This is a position I hold, though it doesn't necessarily correspond to the kills I make as scum because y'know, partners. IIRC, that was one of reasons I argued for Nacho's death in The Red Wedding. Point being: your reasoning is wrong because I don't support "people suspect

me

, let's kill them" as scum, so that kill pattern isn't mine.


If PeregrineV is Town and can't see the advantage of focusing on people who haven't claimed a protective role on D1, I don't know what else to say. He's saying that as scum, I drove my Rolecop buddy to claim Bodyguard on D1, knowing all kinds of roles that could catch him in a lie, from any sort of tracking abilities to investigative ones, in a

Plum

game of all things? He claimed Bodyguard, I believed him, I moved the fuck on.

Do you want an actual recap of D1?

VOTE COUNT 1:15

Shadoweh

- 1 - PeregrineV

Natirasha

- 1 - Desperado

Espeonage

- 7 - SpyreX, Shadoweh, Natirasha, Cogito Ergo Sum, sirdanilot, MafiaSSK, ActionDan

sirdanilot

- 1 - Albert B. Rampage

JacobSavage

- 2 - Tierce, Elscouta

MafiaSSK

- 2 - chamber, TheIrishPope

ActionDan

- 1 - shos

PeregrineV

- 1 - Aegor

Not voting (2)

: JacobSavage, Espeonage

With 18 players alive it takes

10

votes to lynch.
Deadline is in

(expired on 2014-01-23 01:00:00)

.

VOTE: TheIrishPope

VOTE: Natirasha

##Vote: TIP

Can I get someone interested in this lovely JacobSavage wagon? No? How about with the fact that he's questioning Espeonage about why he chose to do something here that was obviously a premade decision and that has nothing to do with his alignment? He's asking him why he chose to claim VT PRIOR TO THE START OF THE GAME. Oh, I don't know, the answer "because Espeonage is an idiot" might be relevant to his alignment before he even gets a role PM. You can judge someone on WHY they choose to follow the decision they made on an isolated, no-role-PM context, but not on why they made the decision in the first place and it should be obvious why.

They were starting to push a TIP wagon. TIP was Town. Espeonage was being wagoned. Regardless of Espeonage's alignment, why on Earth would Tierce-scum derail a nice double-wagon on people who are not her Rolecop buddy to push said scum Rolecop? If Espeonage is scum and I was scum looking for a bus, his wagon was ripe and awesome and effortless. If Espeonage is Town and I was scum, I would have declined two Town wagons to push a scum PR in a likely power-heavy game and force him into a terrible claim that was bound to screw him over. It'd be a high-risk, low-profit move. As sirdanilot so eloquently put it, I am a goddess at this game and goddesses of practicality don't make errors of judgment like that.

I'm Town. I bought the claim, and saying that "everyone doubted JacobSavage's claim EXCEPT Tierce" is pretty obviously not what happened given how D2 and D3 played out.

But do continue to argue about me dropping a push on a player whose claim I accepted as probably-true-and-not-my-problem-anyway. How many people on that D1 wagon are you going to lynch because they didn't go after Jacob before late D3?

Vote: Tierce

Nothing really retracting from that read.

This should be real good.


---


Desperado: I don't think Shadoweh was bussing at the end of D2. It's much easier to see the interaction between her and ActionDan at that point as scum theater (including the whole "why isn't sirdanilot around to protest his lynch at 4:30 am!" between them) than her jump on the wagon at my behest (oooh, fancy vocabulary, it's evidence of all my Amazon goddess powers) on her scumbuddy, when we know she could easily pretend to be asleep instead of bussing.

And I'm

brilliant

at this game, so you should vote with me and wait until sirdanilot inevitably fucks this up in LyLo.[/quote]

[sirdanilot]

Oh whoppsie daysie, I forgot to remove the rest of the post. My bad. '
Still not changin my vote, and you're getting awful close to a lynch, so why not just answer?
' Is the last sentence I wrote myself

[Tierce]

I am talking about day 3, not day 2. If you reread the events on day 2 the only obvious conclusion was that Shadoweh was scum.
Why did you not see that immediately?

Still not changin my vote, and you're getting awful close to a lynch, so why not just answer?

Because it was not the "only obvious conclusion". Her behavior around the D2 deadline looked Town.

Difficult to get that from my posts, I know, must be the whole GOD(DESS) TALK that you're not able to decipher.

D3 started. I voted my main suspect, then went back and looked at Natirasha and Majiffy's posts. I should have used my goddess powers to travel back in time and discover the crumb before Plum even posted Majiffy's flip. Will do so next time, thanks for the notice! ^_^


While we are at it, because I am a kind and benevolent goddess of femininity, let's go and look at your D2 posts leading into D3:

Majiffy's Shadoweh case actually looks good, though I always read him town until now, so not sheeping.

4. The town's core, even though not all of these are necessarily town, they are the only ones that keep some amount of movement in the game
Majiffy, Shadoweh, sirdanilot, Tierce, Cogito Ergo Sum (also 3)

Still Townreading Shadoweh, and in the next post you say that CES is the most "scumread" of the list, so it's not like you're going after Shadoweh.

I prefer Jiffy's reads to AD's reads, or at least the abr/ces part.

AD aren't you scum?

Fine with that Shadoweh Townread still.

MafiaSSK - no read / nothing particularly stroke out one way or another, but i didn't look particularly in this direction
Shadoweh - medium town read. Originally strong town read due to the general tone of her posts. Some doubt now due to Majiffy case (that i didn't digest fully, but that makes kinda sense) and the fact that she seems to hang out with bad people / on bad wagons
TIP - slight scum read. Mostly i find him useless and very condescending. Useless is neutral read, but condescending / discrediting cases is something a bit more scummy in my book
sho - very strong town read. Common suspicions, some posts that sounded very townie (most recent being #1275).

This is horrible, especially the medium/null kinds of reads. I can understand your shos and Shadoweh reads. Your TIP read in principle I do not disagree with but your reasons are crap and pulled from a fresh backside ('condescending' as a scumtell? Really?). Your MafiaSSK read points to him being your buddy if MafiaSSK flips scum and vice versa.

Still Townreading Shadoweh.

You don't mention her again until D3, where you vote her after I reveal Majiffy's crumb. So tell me again how Shadoweh was so obvious scum that I should have time-traveled to be able to spot it before I went through Majiffy's ISO on D3?

[Tierce]

And now if you'll excuse me, I'd rather go back to scumhunting instead of admiring your Renaissance painting of my glorious image.

Good

goddess

me I'm rereading the game why

As much as I get all kinds of bad flashbacks about dragons when trying to read Desperado, the fact that he dropped his vote on Natirasha-Town on D1, later called Majiffy Town, and this specific pair of posts--

But, ABR is running at 100% below minimal.

Does he do that often as scum? We just finished a perfect scum win together and he was significantly more interested in the game than he appears to be right now.

^ I don't think being interested in the game or not is a scum tell, though being interested does help your faction.

I wasn't speaking generally, I was talking about Albert specifically. My experience with his scum game is that he cares very much about what is going on and is extremely involved. Have you played with him before?

--rings pretty Town. When he later voted ABR, he didn't use PeregrineV or sirdanilot's stances to justify it; it seemed a pretty fluid change of read, which makes these two posts genuine inquiry instead of trying to edge in a vote.

[Tierce]

EBWOP:

given how D2 and D3

and D4

played out.

But do continue to argue about me dropping a push on a player whose claim I accepted as probably-true-and-not-my-problem-anyway. How many people on that D1 wagon are you going to lynch because they didn't go after Jacob before late D

4

?

How the Ages fly when you're fighting for your life and throwing people down the mountainside.

[ActionDan]

Your read of peregrine, tierce?

[Tierce]

...

Are my posts invisible? Bolded for your skimming convenience:

Tierce you're drivin me nuts this game.

ActionDan, PeregrineV, profit

AD - scum means JS tossed him out in his nonsense night action claims which I have a hard time buying assuming rationality but..JS so maybe.
But then PV is the one who insta-votes him for it?

One man down, another on the block and two others (more likely than not the entire rest of the scumteam) throw themselves out in a way that isn't gonna stop that lynch or even really make them look better for it?

I have a hard time choking that down.

You said it yourself--JacobSavage claimed to protect ActionDan when he had just said that he had done the "obvious choice"--whatever the obvious choice was, it was not Action "One-Liner" Dan. shos was talking about his result--and any member of a scumteam would already know that JacobSavage didn't target ABR N2 if shos is Town.

So tell me why Peregrine scum wouldn't immediately toss his hat in the ring for a bus when the lynch is inevitable?

[...]

If PeregrineV is Town and can't see the advantage of focusing on people who haven't claimed a protective role on D1, I don't know what else to say.

He's saying that as scum, I drove my Rolecop buddy to claim Bodyguard on D1, knowing all kinds of roles that could catch him in a lie, from any sort of tracking abilities to investigative ones, in a

Plum

game of all things? He claimed Bodyguard, I believed him, I moved the fuck on.

Do you want an actual recap of D1?

VOTE COUNT 1:15

Shadoweh

- 1 - PeregrineV

Natirasha

- 1 - Desperado

Espeonage

- 7 - SpyreX, Shadoweh, Natirasha, Cogito Ergo Sum, sirdanilot, MafiaSSK, ActionDan

sirdanilot

- 1 - Albert B. Rampage

JacobSavage

- 2 - Tierce, Elscouta

MafiaSSK

- 2 - chamber, TheIrishPope

ActionDan

- 1 - shos

PeregrineV

- 1 - Aegor

Not voting (2)

: JacobSavage, Espeonage

With 18 players alive it takes

10

votes to lynch.
Deadline is in

(expired on 2014-01-23 01:00:00)

.

VOTE: TheIrishPope

VOTE: Natirasha

##Vote: TIP

Can I get someone interested in this lovely JacobSavage wagon? No? How about with the fact that he's questioning Espeonage about why he chose to do something here that was obviously a premade decision and that has nothing to do with his alignment? He's asking him why he chose to claim VT PRIOR TO THE START OF THE GAME. Oh, I don't know, the answer "because Espeonage is an idiot" might be relevant to his alignment before he even gets a role PM. You can judge someone on WHY they choose to follow the decision they made on an isolated, no-role-PM context, but not on why they made the decision in the first place and it should be obvious why.

They were starting to push a TIP wagon. TIP was Town. Espeonage was being wagoned. Regardless of Espeonage's alignment, why on Earth would Tierce-scum derail a nice double-wagon on people who are not her Rolecop buddy to push said scum Rolecop? If Espeonage is scum and I was scum looking for a bus, his wagon was ripe and awesome and effortless. If Espeonage is Town and I was scum, I would have declined two Town wagons to push a scum PR in a likely power-heavy game and force him into a terrible claim that was bound to screw him over. It'd be a high-risk, low-profit move. As sirdanilot so eloquently put it, I am a goddess at this game and goddesses of practicality don't make errors of judgment like that.

I'm Town. I bought the claim, and saying that "everyone doubted JacobSavage's claim EXCEPT Tierce" is

pretty obviously not what happened given how D2 and D3 played out.

But do continue to argue about me dropping a push on a player whose claim I accepted as probably-true-and-not-my-problem-anyway. How many people on that D1 wagon are you going to lynch because they didn't go after Jacob before late D

4

?

He's scum. Pls bus.

[ActionDan]

Ok I thought his last posts might have changed your mind.

VOTE: tierce

[shos]

VOTE: sirdan
That is a product of poe.
Mostly townreads,peoplei want to keep alive, and well tierces poats yhis page are overwhelming for scum.

Ill admit i have yet to win as town against tierce, though. Dat gurl touches me deep.

[shos]

AD, what of this page's content made you decide to vote tierce, Scummyboy Scummer McScum?

[shos]

I should mention that it is CES who gets the enormous towncred for JS not PV.

mod does ces nees prod?