Newbie 1476 - Game Over

[goodmorning]

With regards to GM, the wiki article on 'being a good IC' seems to agree with my view:

Don't lurk:
Lurking kills newbie games. There are only 7-9 players in the game as is, so there are a decreased number of people posting in the game to begin with. Do not subtract from that number. Make an effort to post in the game, and post regularly. As an IC you are at least partially responsible for the flow of the game, because very often the other players in the game will not understand why more discussion is a good thing. You want to lead by example. Secondly, you want to give the newbies a good first experience. GAMES WHERE NO ONE IS POSTING ARE NOT FUN. Give them a fun game. Give yourself a fun game. Don't lurk.
Newbies get paralyzed all the time, trying to sort out what happens next. When ICs lurk, it provides an example that this is 'how it's done' on this site, which hurts every game they will be in in the future until/unless they learn otherwise. - Mr. Flay

Oh, and I was going to write something really angry at this, but generally V/LA =/= lurking.

Go figure.

[goodmorning]

burn_209 - I don't find him towny, mainly because he is not helping in the slightest.
Not_Mafia - Is Town. Not only is he being active and asking questions, he's asking the

right

questions, and following up on answers too.
Zivel - Townslipped, I think. Will share when my questions get answered.
Graeyfurredmutt - Town for the real-looking transparency.
joker443 - Liking less, based on lack of activity.
Luca Blight - Some posts are not great, and the heebie-jeebies reaction was odd, but the burn stuff feels Town.
RachMarie - Idk, leaning Scum based on utter vanishedness.
notscience - I can't read him.

[Zivel]

Hey Notty, I have had a look at your posts and have a question, I hope it is not bad form to quote a bunch of someones posts:

I think if anyone's not townreading you after 48 we're going to fisticuffs

^town

This kinda feels TvTish to me

You're both town lol

Luca/doggie is tvt

Goodmorning I haz issue

I think I've solved the game D1 but that almost never happens so I'm really worried I'm wrong wat do

This is town

Rach is town too

VOTE: Zivel

GM wagon with me

^This guy is town

The above quotes state facts and ideas but have little to no reasoning. In some cases they come across as arrogant, with no back up. In my last post I asked if you could state why you think it was TvT like I was five and your answer was "Mutt feels town and Luca was trying to convince him he was wrong and it sounded very much like two townies trying to get their bearings". Feelings again. So can you actually give some substance to these statements you have made? Or do you just play this game on feelings?

[Zivel]

What does townslipped mean?

[notscience]

burn_209 - I don't find him towny, mainly because he is not helping in the slightest.

Thoughts on his AtE?

Not_Mafia - Is Town. Not only is he being active and asking questions, he's asking the right questions, and following up on answers too.

yes

Zivel - Townslipped, I think. Will share when my questions get answered.

Better be a damn good townslip

Graeyfurredmutt - Town for the real-looking transparency.

yes

joker443 - Liking less, based on lack of activity.

Go on

Luca Blight - Some posts are not great, and the heebie-jeebies reaction was odd, but the burn stuff feels Town.

He's town

RachMarie - Idk, leaning Scum based on utter vanishedness.

Rach lurking is null in and of itself but I liked what she posted when she's here
notscience - I can't read him.

No using this excuse because I've made my alignment crystal clear

Hey Notty, I have had a look at your posts and have a question, I hope it is not bad form to quote a bunch of someones posts:

I think if anyone's not townreading you after 48 we're going to fisticuffs

It was a very transparent question, and it got out his thoughts about how he approaches a scumgame in a way that scum just wouldn't. Be honest, have you ever seen scum tell you EXACTLY how they're going to play at the start?

^town

This was based on his attitude towards getting lynched. It's like, textbook town. You know your own role pm. You know if it says town or scum. By letting yourself get lynched you are letting the ONE PERSON you know to be town (sans cop innocents and whatnot) die. At the same time, he touches on how survival is something town shouldn't be worried about (at least at this point) they should be more worried about finding scum. Now I know I'm kinda contradicting myself here, but let's just say that-

You need to focus on finding scum. Yes. But if it gets to lylo or gets to where you're wagoned and you're town, you NEED to survive. You need to help set up town yes, but survival is also part of it.

This kinda feels TvTish to me

This and the next few will be answered underneath them

You're both town lol

Luca/doggie is tvt

I've already expressed a townread on mutt throughout. Luca's interaction with him shows reaching out and trying to help mutt get an idea of his alignment that scum just really don't do

Goodmorning I haz issue

I think I've solved the game D1 but that almost never happens so I'm really worried I'm wrong wat do

By finding all the town I can then PoE the scum, and at that point I had the notion I had in fact found all the town. Since then my reads have kinda fluctuated a bit.

This is town

It's something I could see town-me or town TheIrishPope saying. Not really much else given it's an RVS post but it gave good townvibes.

Rach is town too

Mostly gut based on my experience with her. Rach needs time to get into a game and I usually like to wait for her catchup readslists.

VOTE: Zivel

GM wagon with me

GM and I play together a fair amount and wagons are amazing what's not to love

^This guy is town

This was more of an RVS joke than anything, but probability DOES lead to him being more likely town than scum (plus his avatar convinced me)

The above quotes state facts and ideas but have little to no reasoning. In some cases they come across as arrogant, with no back up. In my last post I asked if you could state why you think it was TvT like I was five and your answer was "Mutt feels town and Luca was trying to convince him he was wrong and it sounded very much like two townies trying to get their bearings". Feelings again. So can you actually give some substance to these statements you have made? Or do you just play this game on feelings?

While yes, I do play majority based on gut, it's relating my gut to things I've seen before- and usually if I remember it I'll share it. Mostly my gut and my feelings about things are based on something I saw but I can't particularly place my finger on why I see it this way. I'll relook at everything, however I'll do my best with what I got. Answers were bolded.

[notscience]

What does townslipped mean?

Accidentally did something that only town accidentally does

There are other things, like town-info slips (go to theme games and find 1508 if you want more on that, I townslipped hard)

[Zivel]

Thanks for the greater clarification, I feel better about your motives now.

Now what questions does GM want me to answer?

[Luca Blight]

Gm there's no need to take what I said personally, I just wanted to draw you into the game a bit more to get get a better read of you, and your previous post about my reads being 'too convenient' allowed me to do that.

If the other quiet ones were about I would do the same with them. Apologies if you took offence; I wasn't calling you a bad IC, I was just counteracting your point about the role of the IC in games like this.

[Luca Blight]

Zivel when you posted your reads before, you offered no explanation at all for them and promised to elaborate later which you still haven't done.

If you could do that it would be appreciated.

[Zivel]

I think he said something about your mother GM.

[Zivel]

Zivel when you posted your reads before, you offered no explanation at all for them and promised to elaborate later which you still haven't done.

If you could do that it would be appreciated.

Post 186 are my more in depth thoughts.

I would say Joker would be my strongest scum feel due to the quick wagoning with no reason and the inactivity.

[Luca Blight]

I'm not sure I agree with the point on wagoning as that is a common occurrence in the early game; people just throw votes around anywhere. Putting burn at L-1 so early on and without good reason is a little dodgy, but a hammer is very unlikely that early on as it doesn't help town, and if mafia were to do it it would draw attention to whoever hammered him.

The inactivity I agree with, I am suspicious of all the cautious ones, so while burn is still my main scum read, I am suspicious of the likes of Joker, Rach, GM and yourself because they haven't given me a reason not to be.

[serrapaladin]

OFFICIAL VOTE COUNT 1.09

notscience (1) - RachMarie

burn_209 (L-1) - goodmorning, joker443, burn_209, Luca Blight

Luca Blight (1) - Zivel
Zivel (2) - Not_Mafia, notscience

Not Voting (1) - Graeyfurredmutt

With 9 alive, it's 5 to lynch.

The deadline for Day 1 is in (expired on 2014-03-01 23:59:59).[/area]

[joker443]

Been rather busy..but here goes
Burn all you seen to do is defend yourself instead of search for who's scum, in my eyes that's a major fuck up but he's acting like i did in my last game so he could be town I'll move my vote when I see some more work coming from him
Rach very suspicious but can't say scum yet
Luca very good reasoning and believe he's doing rather a lot to help town
Zivel not to sure on him ATM I'm thinking town also could be a vital player to us
Gm not sure about her yet
Not mafia I like him got a feeling he's town

[goodmorning]

What does townslipped mean?

Said something that makes it very likely one is Town. The equal and opposite is scumslipping, which you'll probably see more often because normally nobody townslips outside of Newbie games.

burn_209 - I don't find him towny, mainly because he is not helping in the slightest.

Thoughts on his AtE?

Not_Mafia - Is Town. Not only is he being active and asking questions, he's asking the right questions, and following up on answers too.

yes

Zivel - Townslipped, I think. Will share when my questions get answered.

Better be a damn good townslip

Graeyfurredmutt - Town for the real-looking transparency.

yes

joker443 - Liking less, based on lack of activity.

Go on

Luca Blight - Some posts are not great, and the heebie-jeebies reaction was odd, but the burn stuff feels Town.

He's town

RachMarie - Idk, leaning Scum based on utter vanishedness.

Rach lurking is null in and of itself but I liked what she posted when she's here

notscience - I can't read him.

No using this excuse because I've made my alignment crystal clear

burn - What of it? I don't think it's particularly alignment-indicative, though I dislike it in principle. I've been ignoring it, generally.
joker - With what? Not enough posts. She wasn't the most active townie last time we played, but she wasn't this lurky. Could just be busy, after all.
Luca - Maybe.
Rach - What in particular? Because all I saw was IC-type stuff.
notsci - No, you haven't.

Now what questions does GM want me to answer?

I think it was in 186-7ish? I'll find it.
Here:

Burn I guess I just feel for:

its just frustrating that every time I play this game Im always the first days bandwagon or lynch. So Im not going to sit here and argue with people with people who think I am scum but do not explain why or give examples.

This quote just makes me feel that he is not scum, I dont care if he goes, but I feel that he really just wants to play this game, and hates being knocked out early. Looking through his previous games it appears that he gets replaced more often than gets knocked out but I still would be annoyed if I was in his place.

Do Scum

not

want to play the game?

Gm there's no need to take what I said personally, I just wanted to draw you into the game a bit more to get get a better read of you, and your previous post about my reads being 'too convenient' allowed me to do that.

If the other quiet ones were about I would do the same with them. Apologies if you took offence; I wasn't calling you a bad IC, I was just counteracting your point about the role of the IC in games like this.

I see. This is quite nice of you.

I wasn't really that angry after a couple minutes though. You would know if I'd stayed that way.

I think he said something about your mother GM.

lololololololol

[Not_Mafia]

Posting updated reads cos I feel like posting. Scum down to town

Burn-

Scum

The more he posts the more town flail he looks but he hasn't done anything useful all game, just created a ruckus. He has ignored any opportunity to do any actual scum hunting or help village and has consistently lied and/or posted falsehoods so I'm still leaning scum.

Zivel-

Null/Scum

That reads post looked super scummy burn partner, however newbies are hard to read, we're going on circles with burn so I think more pressure is needed here

Joker-

Null/Scum

The activity posting is a little troublesome, more content please. After Zivel he is who we should be pressuring.

RachMarie-

Null

Her meta is quiet according to a few people so I'm not getting a scumread off her not posting but she really should post a reads list or something.

NotSci-

Null/Slight Town

I haven't looked at his prior games yet but my impression from this game is his playstyle seems to aggro high post count regardless of alignment. These players are always difficult to read. He's done a few things I don't like but a lot of things I do like. So he's definetely still on my radar but I'm leaning town

LucaBlight-

Null/Slight Town

his super aggro playstyle could be taken either way, he's someone I plan to look at meta for. Overall though the unvote is the only thing that has been suspect.

goodmorning-

Null/Slight Town

Activity is stepping up and all her posts have been solid, really nothing to make me think scum

GFM-

Town

uber transparency = probably not scum

My reads would be more concrete if I wan't considering burn being a town flail, in any case he's not getting village anywhere.

@burn- How do you feel about your self vote now?

[Not_Mafia]

Whoops Joker is a girl. I suck at pronouns

[joker443]

I am rather busy trying to make sure I do put something in so apologies

[joker443]

Gm is it the same set up we had in the game we played?

[Luca Blight]

I pretty much agree with your list, Not_Mafia. I would however swap GM and NS; you say GM has done nothing to make you think she is scum, which is fine, but has she done enough to make you feel she is town to be your second biggest town read?

I still stand by my unvote; it felt at the time a fair thing to do and has been misinterpreted.

[Not_Mafia]

No one is a particulay strong town read apart from maybe gfm. Just because if Burn flips town then this entire thing has been a wild goose chase with no real indication of alignments

[RachMarie]

I am here but I have been sick past couple of days more later.

[joker443]

I don't agree that zivel is scum?

[notscience]

NotSci- Null/Slight Town I haven't looked at his prior games yet but my impression from this game is his playstyle seems to aggro high post count regardless of alignment. These players are always difficult to read. He's done a few things I don't like but a lot of things I do like. So he's definetely still on my radar but I'm leaning town

I have good/bad scumgames, bad scumgames I lurk like a motherfucker

js

[Zivel]

Now what questions does GM want me to answer?

I think it was in 186-7ish? I'll find it.
Here:

Burn I guess I just feel for:

its just frustrating that every time I play this game Im always the first days bandwagon or lynch. So Im not going to sit here and argue with people with people who think I am scum but do not explain why or give examples.

This quote just makes me feel that he is not scum, I dont care if he goes, but I feel that he really just wants to play this game, and hates being knocked out early. Looking through his previous games it appears that he gets replaced more often than gets knocked out but I still would be annoyed if I was in his place.

Do Scum

not

want to play the game?

Of course scum want to play the game, them running an AtE is no different from town doing it. But I guess I got sucked into the AtE of burns, being new I would really feel the same I guess, infact I would like some pressure to see how I respond. I dont think Burn handled the pressure very well, he should of gone more for the dont defend yourself but just carry on the scum hunting. He got to defensive, and emotional and now people (including me now... damn it!) are questioning his motives.