Newbie 1476 - Game Over

[Luca Blight]

Zivel would probably be more likely to be Town, not sure on the others.

[notscience]

Why more likely to be town?

GM's been doing a dishearted push while leading the burn wagon, why would she do that to her scumbud when it'd be easy to wagon Zivel?

Her reads re:joker have been kinda avoidy

[Luca Blight]

If GM flipped Town, she seemed sure Zivel is Town so we would have a genuine read on that, but I guess that probably doesn't count for a lot.

Her push on burn has been a bit limp; I have noticed a theme with her fence-sitting, she'll make a case against someone, then even it out with saying they could be town-aligned, or vice-versa. She is also similar to burn in how she reacts angrily at times when questioned, a bit overly-defensive.

Her reads on Joker have been avoidy, but she has been like that about everyone.

[notscience]

She's basing it on a towntell that she hasn't told us- what makes you think it isn't a ruse to avoid reading her buddy?

Is that theme more viable as scum or town?

True.

[Luca Blight]

Yeah I think that could be a case; if she flipped scum then in would perhaps bring Zivel under more scrutiny, but if she flipped Town it would have slightly the opposite affect.

More viable as scum.

There is definitely a case to answer from her. What do you think on Rach who has been even more under the radar?

[notscience]

Rach is always under the radar, if you're interested in Meta I can get you a few games. That's why I'm not really bugged by it all too much.

[Luca Blight]

I think she is almost too under the radar to be scum; surely they wouldn't make it that obvious?

Still, I'd prefer a player who actually contributed to the game, I often forget she is playing.

[notscience]

Happens often, it's whatever.

[serrapaladin]

OFFICIAL VOTE COUNT 1.11

notscience (1) - RachMarie

burn_209 (3) - goodmorning, burn_209, Luca Blight

Luca Blight (1) - Zivel
Zivel (1) - Not_Mafia
goodmorning (1) - notscience

Not Voting (2) - Graeyfurredmutt, joker443

With 9 alive, it's 5 to lynch.

The deadline for Day 1 is in (expired on 2014-03-01 23:59:59).[/area]

[goodmorning]

I don't really expect you to follow based on that, I'm going to have to make a case and all that.

As for partner, not sure. I don't think burn is it, I don't think Rach is it, I know I'm not it. I don't think Joker is it. Zivel maybe.

You don't agree it's a towntell? Pity.

You probably should vote for someone else though.

I'm still suspicious of her cautious gameplay as I have been for a while, she is lurking a lot and is difficult to read, especially as this game has a few other lurkers already.

If being on V/LA and then posting long posts several times a day is your definition of lurking, then I don't think that word means what you think it means.

I thought the reason she gave for being cautious due to being an IC was weak and a bit of a cop-out.

I still think if an IC is Town they would make more of an effort to influence proceedings, she has had no impact at all and her reads have had poor reasoning behind them -

for example saying she thinks I'm town but my reads are 'too convenient',

for a start that is sitting on the fence

, and also she has provided no explanation why my reads are too convenient.

The fact I have her as null isn't for convenience,

it's because she has done nothing to make me think she could be one or the other.

U: You're welcome to look at some of my past Newbies.
(in "of" I didn't start out aware that I was the IC for

reasons

)
("past" was my first and only game as IC-Scum)
(I'm still in love with my TSO case from "Newbies," even though I was wrong)
(they go from most to least recent, you may see the playstyle evolution happening if you're looking for it)
I: Do you think that all of a Town person's posts will look Town? Do you think Townies never make scummy posts?
I/U: Further, please demonstrate that this is in any way fence-sitting.
B: It wasn't your read on me I was talking about, though if your sudden sheep of notsci hits my brain it certainly will be now.
Also, if you're having trouble getting a read on me, maybe you should try reading my posts first.

GM's been doing a dishearted push while leading the burn wagon, why would she do that to her scumbud when it'd be easy to wagon Zivel?

Because Zivel townslipped.
Also, I'm not 100% sure I'm leading much of anything.

Her reads re:joker have been kinda avoidy

In what way? I've stated that I find the lack of posting suspicious based on our past game, but I'm also willing to make allowances for possible RL stuff, because it's really annoying when people don't grant me that courtesy.

She's basing it on a towntell that she hasn't told us- what makes you think it isn't a ruse to avoid reading her buddy?

If you haven't realised by now that it must involve the post I was questioning him about, I gave you too much credit in the smarts department.

I think she is almost too under the radar to be scum; surely they wouldn't make it that obvious?

Still, I'd prefer a player who actually contributed to the game, I often forget she is playing.

Again, I referenced you to LotR specifically. She was part of a hydra that was in for the entire game. (They were the last lynch.) Their post count was incredibly low.
And "too scummy to be scum" is a fallacy.

ALSO
Lurking hasn't been a scumtell for me since the days when I was actually good at this game.

[goodmorning]

oh god
"It's like you're constantly using psychology to put yourself in the Town driving seat and I just get a bad feeling from it."

lololololololololol

i love myself

[goodmorning]

Oh, and Luca, what you've been doing recently is a thing I refer to as "buzzword scumhunting."

[Luca Blight]

What do you mean by that?

[goodmorning]

I mean that you're conforming your scumhunting to buzzwords.

Some examples (not all of which you've used) include:
lurk(-er, -ing), fence-sitting, defensive, cautious, AtE, etc.

There are also townhunting buzzwords but that's not as relevant right now.

[Luca Blight]

What's your point? Are you trying to make out that using such words undermines my argument?

I don't use words for the sake of it. You have been fence-sitting and cautious in this game, in my opinion.

[goodmorning]

I'm not saying that your use of buzzwords undermines your argument, though your lack of demonstrating any of those claims or answering my questions to you does.

I'm saying that buzzword scumhunting is frequently seen from newer Scum, who use it as something of a crutch when they've never faked it before.

[goodmorning]

Addressing all of this would be a good start:

I'm still suspicious of her cautious gameplay as I have been for a while, she is lurking a lot and is difficult to read, especially as this game has a few other lurkers already.

If being on V/LA and then posting long posts several times a day is your definition of lurking, then I don't think that word means what you think it means.

I thought the reason she gave for being cautious due to being an IC was weak and a bit of a cop-out.

I still think if an IC is Town they would make more of an effort to influence proceedings, she has had no impact at all and her reads have had poor reasoning behind them -

for example saying she thinks I'm town but my reads are 'too convenient',

for a start that is sitting on the fence

, and also she has provided no explanation why my reads are too convenient.

The fact I have her as null isn't for convenience,

it's because she has done nothing to make me think she could be one or the other.

U: You're welcome to look at some of my past Newbies.
(in "of" I didn't start out aware that I was the IC for

reasons

)
("past" was my first and only game as IC-Scum)
(I'm still in love with my TSO case from "Newbies," even though I was wrong)
(they go from most to least recent, you may see the playstyle evolution happening if you're looking for it)
I: Do you think that all of a Town person's posts will look Town? Do you think Townies never make scummy posts?
I/U: Further, please demonstrate that this is in any way fence-sitting.
B: It wasn't your read on me I was talking about, though if your sudden sheep of notsci hits my brain it certainly will be now.
Also, if you're having trouble getting a read on me, maybe you should try reading my posts first.

[Luca Blight]

I'm not saying that your use of buzzwords undermines your argument, though your lack of demonstrating any of those claims or answering my questions to you does.

I'm saying that buzzword scumhunting is frequently seen from newer Scum, who use it as something of a crutch when they've never faked it before.

Your second sentence is an example of your cautiousness. You seem to be implying that I'm scum for using these words, but are saying it in a very non-committal, subtle way, seemingly only as a result of me questioning you.

As for answering all that ^, it is 00:51 where I am so I will do it in the morning when I wake up. One comment that jumps out however is claiming I 'sheep' NS - he asked me some questions and I answered them, often with an opinion which differed from his.

And you accuse me of not reading your posts! Not the first ironic thing you've said this game.

[goodmorning]

I'm not saying that your use of buzzwords undermines your argument, though your lack of demonstrating any of those claims or answering my questions to you does.

I'm saying that buzzword scumhunting is frequently seen from newer Scum, who use it as something of a crutch when they've never faked it before.

Your second sentence is an example of your cautiousness. You seem to be implying that I'm scum for using these words, but are saying it in a very non-committal, subtle way, seemingly only as a result of me questioning you.

Do you think cautiousness is a trait that is only found in Scum? Do you think there is no value in implying things in a game of Mafia?

As for answering all that ^, it is 00:51 where I am so I will do it in the morning when I wake up. One comment that jumps out however is claiming I 'sheep' NS - he asked me some questions and I answered them, often with an opinion which differed from his.

I'm fine with you waiting to answer until you're awake.
I said specifically that you sheeped notsci

in regards to me

.

And you accuse me of not reading your posts! Not the first ironic thing you've said this game.

You obviously aren't reading my posts, or you would at the very least have acknowledged my direct questions to you.

I, on the other hand, am certainly reading yours, as evidenced by my asking you direct questions about them. If that was the "irony" you were going for, it falls a bit flat in my opinion.

[Luca Blight]

I have answered everything from you, apart from what I said I would answer tomorrow as I am very tired and can't properly engage my brain until I've had some sleep.

I never said you were scum, I have made a read on you being cautious - the only thing there is to read of you, you ask me for an example and I gave you one.

How have I sheeped NS in regards to you? I was questioning you when NS was saying he felt sure you were town, and had the same view then as I do now. Post some evidence to this sheeping because it's starting to remind me of when burn kept lying about what I said. It hasn't got to that stage yet, but it's getting there.

[goodmorning]

I never said you were scum, I have made a read on you being cautious - the only thing there is to read of you, you ask me for an example and I gave you one.

Ugh, now who's fence-sitting?

How have I sheeped NS in regards to you? I was questioning you when NS was saying he felt sure you were town, and had the same view then as I do now. Post some evidence to this sheeping because it's starting to remind me of when burn kept lying about what I said. It hasn't got to that stage yet, but it's getting there.

You were calling me Null before notsci voted me. Now I can see that you're working your way towards calling me Scum.

[Luca Blight]

Your response about the fence-sitting really is pathetic and desperate. I have not sat on the fence about anyone, I read you as null because there isn't a lot of content to judge from. I have tried to give you the benefit of the doubt all game which is why I had you down as null, but this overly defensive streak in you is changing my read from null to a slight-scum lean. If you have genuinely read through my posts then you will see that my view on you has been consistent right the way through.

As you have failed to provide evidence of me sheepng NS, do you admit you made that up?

[goodmorning]

Your response about the fence-sitting really is pathetic and desperate. I have not sat on the fence about anyone, I read you as null because there isn't a lot of content to judge from. I have tried to give you the benefit of the doubt all game which is why I had you down as null, but this overly defensive streak in you is changing my read from null to a slight-scum lean. If you have genuinely read through my posts then you will see that my view on you has been consistent right the way through.

What makes you think consistency is necessarily a Town trait?

As you have failed to provide evidence of me sheepng NS, do you admit you made that up?

I'm going to pretend you didn't say this.

[goodmorning]

"Luca's reads are too convenient", I can only read what's put in front of me, maybe if you actually offered some reads yourself from time to time I could have a better read on you rather than having you down as null because you haven't contributed anything.

Forgot to ask you this before, but are one's reads the only indicator of their alignment?

[Not_Mafia]

I'm surprised that so much discussion has come from something that is entirely theoretical at this point as NotSci has yet to provide any basis for his scumread.

But if GM is scum I don't know why people are so eager to clean burn as her scum partner, a soft bus is entirely possible. I wanna hear from NotSci as to why he thought she was scum in the first place.

This feels town v town to me, I like the pressure from Luca and GM is responding well. I don't think Luca is sheeping as he has dropped hints to him suspecting GM being scum. I can quote if need be