Newbie 1476 - Game Over

[Not_Mafia]

@-Joker

Burn was looking noob town to me but since his bandwagoning he is looking scummier than before

RachMarie's lurking is becoming problematic but I think if she were his partner she'd have been drawn out when Burn imploded earlier, Zivel still seems more likely to me.

[burn_209]

Ill explain why after work.

[goodmorning]

The next day Thor was lynched because he was essentially wrong and was the one who lead the town to lynching a townie.

This looks like a very good reason not to lead the town as a Town IC.

I have a hard time believing that a town IC wouldnt want to take control and be the town leader.

Other than it'll get you lynched for not being infallible? Other than the fact the IC already has a big enough target on her back?
Other than the fact that

that's not my fucking playstyle

?

I don't particularly have a case I've presented yet, care to rethink those reads?

Are you saying what I think you're saying?

I was and still am and easier lynch than Zivel...that is why she didnt switch.

I have unvoted you, and again, Zivel townslipped.

@Luca: I thought you were going to answer my questions this morning?

Yeah, and I stand by all that I said, and my opinion on you has been consistent throughout, whether you think that is a townie trait or not.

I don't remember asking you for my opinion on consistency. I remember asking you for yours.

I wanted and expected to see more from you after being V/LA early on, but it didn't happen, and out of all the 'quiet ones' your behaviour is the most suspicious to me as I would personally have expected more from the IC.

Welllll get used to disappointment then. I do exactly as much as I want to do, because this is a game and I'm not going to kill myself working on a game. Besides, I've provided quite enough content to be getting on with.

When I mentioned that you got all defensive and gave a load of cop-out excuses why you weren't getting involved, because apparently everyone would 'sheep' you, which I think is very patronising as there seems to be a lot of decent players here, even if most of us are new.

I take it you didn't look at "some" then.
Or read notsci's opinion of the matter.

You then accuse of of buddying NS which I have asked you numerous times for evidence of, but you can't provide any.

I didn't accuse you of buddying notsci. I accused you of sheeping him. It's normal for newbScum to get their buzzwords mixed up though.

Sheeping is perhaps not quite the right word, but there isn't really any word for "hooked on to his opinion as a chance to get noisy over something I wasn't sure I should get noisy about before." So sheeping it is.
And I certainly provided evidence of that. What else did you think that spoiler was for?

The reason you can't provide any is because it doesn't exist and was a desperate attempt to undermine my read of you.

Even if I hadn't provided evidence, how would my discrediting (or failure to discredit) have any effect on your read of me?

I will probably go through your posts later like you have with mine.

I look forward to seeing you dig your own grave.

2. Notscience - I really think your case on GM is strong and the more I think about it and mash it around in my head I think you are right

What case?

ilu notmaf

@joker: Can you do a readslist please? Your level of content worries me, as has been said.

Vote: Luca

[Luca Blight]

Your argument is so pathetic I barely see the point in answering you.

-The point on consistency, it's a more likely theme in a townie's game, but not for every case obviously. Another question that I didn't even feel needed an answer.

-"Provided quite enough content to be getting on with", that seems quite a scummy approach to the game , doesn't come across as if you are trying to help the town but offer enough content to keep the suspicion off you.

I take it you didn't look at "some" then.
Or read notsci's opinion of the matter

.

Don't know what you mean by this.

I didn't accuse you of buddying notsci. I accused you of sheeping him. It's normal for newbScum to get their buzzwords mixed up though.

Sheeping is perhaps not quite the right word, but there isn't really any word for "hooked on to his opinion as a chance to get noisy over something I wasn't sure I should get noisy about before." So sheeping it is.
And I certainly provided evidence of that. What else did you think that spoiler was for?

Buddying/sheeping whatever, either way it's clearly not what I did, as I explained in my previous post. I notice you keep moving off topic and focusing your argument on these 'buzzwords', it doesn't constitute a valid argument in my opinion.

You are very overly-defensive; I am the only one to have questioned you (yet I'm the one sheeping...strange) and both times you have responded angrily, and have now voted for me for using 'buzzwords', which is very desperate. I made a read on you being cautious, and because I used that particular word it apparently makes me scum..what word would you have preferred I use?

Your argument has been every bit as bad as burn's, and it's clear your attack on me is only because I questioned your lack of activity, so I would be a hypocrite if I now didn't UNVOTE: burn and VOTE: GM

I will look over your posts from last night once I've had my dinner.

[joker443]

Please explain burn?

[goodmorning]

Your argument is so pathetic I barely see the point in answering you.

Speaking of "desperate attempts to undermine"...

-The point on consistency, it's a more likely theme in a townie's game, but not for every case obviously. Another question that I didn't even feel needed an answer.

So you're saying that Scum can also be consistent?

-"Provided quite enough content to be getting on with", that seems quite a scummy approach to the game, doesn't come across as if you are trying to help the town but offer enough content to keep the suspicion off you.

Again, this is a game. I've offered enough content that I ought to be readable, so now I'm going to enjoy the game rather than bust my ass over it.

I take it you didn't look at "some" then.
Or read notsci's opinion of the matter

.
Don't know what you mean by this.

The game labelled "some" shows a very good reason why the IC hanging back can work well.
notsci's opinion of the matter is that whether the IC leads or not is dependent on a number of factors, and alignment doesn't have to be one of them.

I didn't accuse you of buddying notsci. I accused you of sheeping him. It's normal for newbScum to get their buzzwords mixed up though.

Sheeping is perhaps not quite the right word, but there isn't really any word for "hooked on to his opinion as a chance to get noisy over something I wasn't sure I should get noisy about before." So sheeping it is.
And I certainly provided evidence of that. What else did you think that spoiler was for?

Buddying/sheeping whatever, either way it's clearly not what I did, as I explained in my previous post. I notice you keep moving off topic and focusing your argument on these 'buzzwords', it doesn't constitute a valid argument in my opinion.

And as I explained, sheeping is not quite the word. But I feel I've pretty fairly demonstrated that you springboarded off notsci.
As for the buzzwords... see below.

You are very overly-defensive;

Buzzword. Also, in what way is rebutting a case against you "overly defensive"?

I am the only one to have questioned you

What does this have to do with anything?

(yet I'm the one sheeping...strange)

Your sheep/springboard of/f notsci has little to do with me.

and both times you have responded angrily,

Again, if I was angry, it would be very obvious.

and have now voted for me for using 'buzzwords',

Yes. NewbScum tend to use buzzword scumhunting more than anyone else. They have no experience of being Scum and making fake cases, so they rely on words such as the ones I mentioned earlier to make the fake cases for them.

which is very desperate.

Another buzzword.

I made a read on you being cautious, and because I used that particular word it apparently makes me scum..what word would you have preferred I use?

I'd like you to demonstrate how sharing all my reads, being open with my thought process, and answering all questions asked of me makes me "cautious".

It's not buzzword scumhunting if you can back it up instead of just spewing the words and hoping they stick.

Your argument has been every bit as bad as burn's,

In what way? burn is seeing what he wants to see. I'm attempting to understand where you're coming from.

and it's clear your attack on me is only because I questioned your lack of activity,

Again, you need to explain why you think I'm lurking.

And my "attack" on you is because you're not coming from a Town perspective IMO.

I will look over your posts from last night once I've had my dinner.

That's good. Maybe while you're at it you can answer the questions that you didn't answer last night.

[burn_209]

And her comes not mafia running towards his scum buddies rescue. I am 90% sure I know who the scum team is now

>NotSci says GM is scum but he can't say why just yet
>Burn jumps on this wagon and says he agrees with non-existent reasoning
>I point this out
>I am scum

There is a lot more to it but ill get into it after work

[Not_Mafia]

If NotSci can't say why he thinks GM is scum he should at least say why he can't say it. Right now this GM wagons sucks.

[goodmorning]

If NotSci can't say why he thinks GM is scum he should at least say why he can't say it. Right now this GM wagons sucks.

I have two guesses why he can't say it, but I won't say them in case I let some cat out.

[notscience]

I didn't accuse you of buddying notsci. I accused you of sheeping him. It's normal for newbScum to get their buzzwords mixed up though.

Do newbtown not mix up buzzwords?

@joker: Can you do a readslist please? Your level of content worries me, as has been said.

Didn't he have one a few pages ago?

If NotSci can't say why he thinks GM is scum he should at least say why he can't say it. Right now this GM wagons sucks.

Trust me on this, I'll get you other reasons I think she's scum but I'm not going to talk in ANY way shape or form about this read.

If NotSci can't say why he thinks GM is scum he should at least say why he can't say it. Right now this GM wagons sucks.

I have two guesses why he can't say it, but I won't say them in case I let some cat out.

You make posts like this and get my hopes up that maybe I'm wrong then I look at your stance regarding me and can't townread you

[Not_Mafia]

I have a guess as to the reason but I'd be teetering dangerously close to rulebreaking so I won't say

[Not_Mafia]

Here's a more pertinent question, will you be able to tell us before the d1 deadline?

[goodmorning]

I didn't accuse you of buddying notsci. I accused you of sheeping him. It's normal for newbScum to get their buzzwords mixed up though.

Do newbtown not mix up buzzwords?

NewbTown don't tend to use the buzzwords as much.

@joker: Can you do a readslist please? Your level of content worries me, as has been said.

Didn't he have one a few pages ago?

Not a thorough one. Missed out you and Gfm.

If NotSci can't say why he thinks GM is scum he should at least say why he can't say it. Right now this GM wagons sucks.

Trust me on this, I'll get you other reasons I think she's scum but I'm not going to talk in ANY way shape or form about this read.

Oh notsci.

If NotSci can't say why he thinks GM is scum he should at least say why he can't say it. Right now this GM wagons sucks.

I have two guesses why he can't say it, but I won't say them in case I let some cat out.

You make posts like this and get my hopes up that maybe I'm wrong then I look at your stance regarding me and can't townread you

Which stance regarding you? That I can't read you? Or that you're not obvtowning?

Because you obvtowned in N1445, and we all know how that ended.

[notscience]

You've seen both iterations of me, you've seen how scum-me thinks, and you can't read me?

What?

[goodmorning]

Because you obvtowned in N1445, and we all know how that ended.

I don't trust myself to read you correctly. Maybe in a few more games I'll feel more confident again.

[RachMarie]

I stated I was sick so not lurking

Also level of activity does not always mean scum

Now the battle tween GM and notty seems more TvT to me

As for scum I feel Burn is scum. The whole sheep notty with no reasoning really pinged my scumdar. Also his reads leave plenty of room for shifting if needed.

VOTE: Burn

[joker443]

Since your comment on you being I'll before we haven't really heard anything from you

[RachMarie]

I do understand that Joker. However you stated that in the last game you were in a lurker was scum. I was responding to that part.

[joker443]

And I'm stating now that your lack of input since that comment seems like lurking

[notscience]

Rach read some of my stuff re:Burn then let me know if you still feel that way

[Zivel]

Can someone please give me a reason why a Townie would want to hold back information? I don't understand the strategy of saying you know something definitively and not giving and facts to back it up. To mean it seems both arrogant and scummy. But both Notty and GM are doing it so there must be some strategy behind it that I don't understand. Can some please explain it to me.

[burn_209]

If she were town and took control and lynched a townie (which is more likely) then she'd be lynched day 2 anyway by your logic so why is this a scumtell.

Because if she is scum she KNOWS ^this scenario is going to happen and will want to avoid it for obvious reasons. That is why it is a scum tell, because she is avoiding something that a lot of town IC's want to do. Imagine if a town IC hit a mafia on the first day, they would be golden and when playing with a bunch of first time players Im sure its easier if not easy for a town IC to find and lynch scum on the first day. The fact she doesnt want to do this IS a scumtell to me.

Your self vote has been there for a while now and as soon as another wagon appears you crop up. You jumped on a wagon that hasn't been explained yet whilst saying the case for the wagon is really good, saying notsci's non-existent reasoning is good whilst using Luca's reasoning.

I knew you were going to say this as soon as I voted for your scumbuddy. My vote on myself was there for a LONG time, 4 irl days actually, and that point had been proven. So was I supposed to leave my vote on myself for the rest of the day phase just to prove a point? There was opportunity to take my vote off myself and vote zivel and tail ride you and Notscience. If i was really looking for a reason to hop off my self vote I would have when Notscience voted Zivel and said all aboard. Good try though champ!

GM being mafia makes too much sense to me personally and is enough for me to say she is mafia above the other players. What I didnt anticipate was how much Not_Mafia was going to go on a crusade to save his buddy. Right away from the moment notscience brought up the idea about GM Not_Mafia was hostile towards it.

Do you expect us to just follow this? Also, who is his partner?

Right here instead of being more like "can you elaborate more on this." or "What evidence do you have." Right out the gate he tries to put doubt into the town and is hostile right away. Now that might be something small and I might be nit picking but it does seem scummy to ME.

I'm surprised that so much discussion has come from something that is entirely theoretical at this point as NotSci has yet to provide any basis for his scumread.

But if GM is scum I don't know why people are so eager to clean burn as her scum partner, a soft bus is entirely possible. I wanna hear from NotSci as to why he thought she was scum in the first place.

This feels town v town to me, I like the pressure from Luca and GM is responding well. I don't think Luca is sheeping as he has dropped hints to him suspecting GM being scum. I can quote if need be

I'm surprised you are so eager to shoot something down so fast. Any discussion is good discussion at this point.....dont know why you are so hell bent on shooting this down, while providing support for GM at the same time. Time after time you have quickly brushed this off as TvT...how do you know this before you even know what notscience's evidence is? Again so quick and fast to shoot all of this down.....i get it, its what you do when your scum buddy is in trouble.

I KNOW you two are mafia. Id put anything on it right now. Its makes too much sense and the rest of us are so town it hurts (Notscience, Luca, Mutt, Me because I know 150% I am town) and the people that are just, for lack of a better word, there and havent done anything overly scummy. People think they are scummy because of their lurking or short posts. That is a bullshit reason to think someone is scum and is how townies end up getting lynched

[notscience]

Can someone please give me a reason why a Townie would want to hold back information? I don't understand the strategy of saying you know something definitively and not giving and facts to back it up. To mean it seems both arrogant and scummy. But both Notty and GM are doing it so there must be some strategy behind it that I don't understand. Can some please explain it to me.

I'm holding back information for the good of the town.

[Zivel]

Why would holding back information be good for the town? Surely the more information out there the better.

[goodmorning]

But both Notty and GM are doing it so there must be some strategy behind it that I don't understand. Can some please explain it to me.

Where am I holding back?

And there are a few reasons Town might want to hold info. In the game I referenced Luca to ("some"), I held back my reads and used my vote as a reaction test.

If she were town and took control and lynched a townie (which is more likely) then she'd be lynched day 2 anyway by your logic so why is this a scumtell.

Because if she is scum she KNOWS ^this scenario is going to happen and will want to avoid it for obvious reasons.

And if I'm Town, I know I'm not infallible.

That is why it is a scum tell, because she is avoiding something that

a lot

of town IC's want to do.

Notice you said "a lot" there.
A lot =/= ALL.
I am not the type of person who wants to be the town leader. I have never attempted to lead the town in any game. So please explain why I would suddenly want to do that here.

Imagine if a town IC hit a mafia on the first day, they would be golden and when playing with a bunch of first time players Im sure its easier if not easy for a town IC to find and lynch scum on the first day. The fact she doesnt want to do this IS a scumtell to me.

Imagine, as is more likely, a Town IC hitting Town on the first day. This argument is fucking stupid.

I KNOW you two are mafia.

Dude. Seriously. I can understand you jumping on my bandwagon maybe, but NotMaf is genuinely the towniest motherfucker in this game (yes, even over the dude who townslipped).