Mini 1537: ATTACK ON TITAN (Game Over!)

[displaced]

[BROseidon]

Given mastin flipped scum JOAT on day three, unless you think the JOAT had multiple roleblocks (which would be a stoopid assumption to make) then your track has exonerated kaze completely ... Even if you get a pass for the vigderp, you don't realize your error and participate in his quicklynch the next day.

Why couldn't the JOAT have performed the NKs? I assumed a 2-shot JOAT with one or both of those shots being NK-modifiers (ninja to check my track + one of role cop/role block/strongman/bus drive/redirect)

[BROseidon]

or something of that sort.

[Kthxbye]

BRO, you aren't trying very hard to convince anyone you're town...or more importantly, nothing to convince anyone displaced is scum.

BRD is confirmed town as he hasn't hammered you on top of everything else.

I think it's pretty fucking obvious I'm town.

So that leaves you and displaced. If I'm town you, I'm going to be....well....doing what displaced is doing. Not just sitting back throwing out 1 liner's...

[Kthxbye]

I mean, you have p2419, but you aren't pushing any of it or fighting really at all. Looks like scum with a "I'm gonna lose so I'm not gonna really try" attitude.

BRD: hurry the fuck up?

[BROseidon]

And the scum motivation in me not trying my hardest to convince you is...

I've written my full displaced/BS case. Hell, I've written

more

than he has about why he's scum than he has about why I'm scum. I've addressed all the points that he's brought up against me. What more am I supposed to do, another full-ISO of his slot to produce another full case that would largely be me repeating myself?

[BROseidon]

Holy shit, kthx, are you fucking blind.

[BROseidon]

Case on BS/displaced:

FIRST!

Vote: F-16

PEDIT: GOD DAMMIT!

So if we manage to fill out half a page before he obvtowns, we can lynch him?

So if we manage to fill out half a page before he obvtowns, we can lynch him?

Hope Tammy and Pieguyn are town as well so we can crush the scumteam into a billion tiny pieces.

The guys trying to buddy already. I demand sheep.

Early distancing on F-16.

UNVOTE: F-16

VOTE: Kaze

The last time I saw a discussion like this, Slandaar scum and Peacebringer scum were arguing over the use of a smiley.

Looks for first instance to jump off, though.

Anyhow, I'm currently of the belief that there are flavor traps hidden in this set-up and the sooner we can discuss it and move on from it, the sooner we can find the scum.

Lingers on pointless flavor discussion, doesn't want to engage directly with scumhunting.

Can you point out the rolefishing from her iso? Because it

doesn't really

look like she was doing it to me.

If anything, it looks like

she was trying to move away from it.

Slightly hedged language.

=/

Bad response to AD's push on F-16, especially given that he supposedly knew that Dan's town via role.

They're both being coy (I've already looked ahead though). Dan is town (I've already looked ahead to see his concern). Not quite sure on Myko, having second thoughts on who I think it is because the first post from that slot doesn't match up.

Interrupts a line of questioning on me from his buddy to demonstrate how "good" his reads are. Gives me less room to work with F-16 to determine his alignment+gets town points later when both flip town (although he never got the myko/kthx flip).

*Since I'm revisiting the interactions later anyways and I don't particularly like where they're going with them, I'm skipping Bro vs Pie related posts.

We'll see if he ever gets to this...

No, I just think Pie is townier than you. It's a relativity thing.

I'll also admit that I haven't looked at your interactions that thoroughly yet.

Waiting...

This jump onto the wagon reeks.

Weak push with no followup onto Kagami. Let's see if there's any continuity on this later...

On another note, I went back to the origins of the Pie vs Bro debate, and Pie was the one blowing it out of proportion, not Bro. I'm greatly disappointed in you, Pie.

For "going over it thoroughly," BS does jack shit in terms of coming to conclusions. He sort of absolves me while maybe having a scumread on pie but not really.

Meh. Now that I'm reading his posts again, Pasch is probably town. Mastin too.

But I'd like Mastin to talk to me about it. Because although I can see town motivation in what Pasch is saying, I think his "scum role-fishing" theory is a little far-fetched and I'm wondering why he went there instead of just occam's razor. Have any of you played with Pasch before? Does he do stuff like this as town?

UNVOTE

Magical town read on both buddies with no trajectory. This is what scum-me did with buddies Rach in Xenoblade and DOMO in NY165.

I don't know why other people do, but my read changed based on a reevaluation of Falcon's slot. Sure, Falcon's early meta analysis was out-of-place, but I'm not surprised he did it. He had already read that game because he meta-dived me in a micro, so he probably just remembered the reactions from Plum and Kaze to my miller claim there.

Although I didn't like his reactions to Myko and Dan, I can see them coming from a town POV. Falcon probably felt like he was being scum-read for bullshit reasons, thought he had caught scum, and town was ignoring his pleas. His posting gives me similar vibes to the micro I played with him where he was 'sure' I was scum (even though he was wrong) and Nacho was my partner (who was actually scum but I kept ignoring it because regardless of alignment, I knew lynching Nacho wasn't going to win me that game).

Anything Mastin has done/does is just going to be based on biased favoritism. I am aware I do this, so I'm ignoring him right now.

Poorly justified town read onto F-16/mastin slot. F-16 had already had his derpfight with me that was terrible as fuck (which reminds me to go look at some early wagon stuff). mastin's posts were the things that most people thought looked town, not F-16. That BS wasn't in line with that is bad b/c it demonstrates scum trying to read a slot w/o knowing what townies would use to read the slot.

No, I think you're scummy because you seem more content with sitting on a Pasch lynch with some LAL policy instead of trying to figure him out in the event he's just town who's seeing something that may or may not actually be there.

The more times I read Pasch's posts, the more sense they start to make for me. So I can actually see town motivation coming from them. Yet, you don't seem interested in figuring him out at all. You just want to see him lynched.

VOTE: Plum

I'm okay with a Plum counter-wagon.

Joins Plum counter-wagon. Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee.

@Pasch: I can't remember, but weren't you up for a claim? I think you're at L-2 and supposedly Kaze's vote is there "in spirit" (he just wants the hammer).

Such civil, very wow. Especially given earlier potshotting @Kaze

Regarding the Pasch wagon, I'm not really all that interested because I have at least two stronger players telling me I'm wrong about it (and I respect both of them, both of whom I think probably have town-slots). Plum I'm fine with because she is also a scum-read and one both of the aforementioned players want to wagon. At the very least, we can get information based on which wagon actually ends up going through.

Overly justifies pushing one scumread over another using the pretext of "stronger players are telling me I'm wrong."

That's not a scum-slip. That's a breadcrumb.

And it's probably why he got NK'ed.

I'm okay with claiming, but after seeing all the action I missed before Plum got hammered, it's going to open one hell of a can of worms.

Answer for why Dan got NK'd too quickly accessible. Ffery caught me in Xeno on this (luckily she was already dead, but she still figured it out).

I actually don't want a mass-claim, but I'm willing to claim my role since I don't see a point in keeping it hidden anymore.

"I think mass claiming is bad even though town was likely down most of its power at this point. Here, let me claim for towncred anyways."

Also note the overemphasizing "actually."

Fine. Iso me and search for Dan's name. Not only does he appear the most in my iso, but I almost always mention him as town. Even higher than Myko, whose reasoning against Falcon I considered stronger than Dan's.

Immediately jumps at me for pointing out why his claim would be easy to fake as scum. He doesn't want the discussion to happen because others might reach the same conclusion I did.

I'm not. Bro thinks the timing of my crumbs are suspicious. So I told him to iso me and look for Dan's name. It's not like I was being subtle about Dan being town.

misreps my point about why I was meh on his claim, given that my response to his claim was:

That claim is the most null claim that I've ever seen.

After his claim, Brian completely fades from the game. No idea what happened there, but the jump onto mastin's wagon looks like lazy scum realizing that his partner was boned, and wanting to get some towncred out of it after town reading the slot on a blegh trajectory.

Onto displaced:

Displaced jumps in and wants to make sure he can throw shade on my slot before bussing his buddy, as evidenced by:

tbh Im leaning on voting pasch simiply because of the post kk made but that hinges on;

1. knowing why you are a universal townread
2. having it fleshed out why BRO is also town, since my role would suggest flavour clearing people isnt the way forward.

Pasch was boned after the Kaze lynch, everyone knew it. Pasch probably left instructions in the scum QT to bus him, but to make sure the last mislynch was lined up first. It's obvious-as that I'm the last mislynch for scum, given that I've been under pressure all game AND mastin probably made a point in the scum QT about me being a relatively easy mislynch.

@kthx: Im happy for BRO to be town for reasons that are itt, its just my role is saying "Other roles mentioned in flavour is NOT an alignment indicator" and Kag is right about the penalty not being too much of a handicap and could actually benefit a scum player

But then he town reads me, only to go right back to scum reading me?

It's p obv the last scum is bro, Kthx.

You and RBD's dick swinging contest is really obviously a town v town shitfest but POE aside, christ BRO's ISo is a scum one. It's choc full of weak interaction and defence of now flipped scum and aggresive, spurious attacks on flipped town. Oh and plenty of attempts at tying said flipped scum to said flipped town.

TWO POSTS LATER.

I mean there's a lot more but this has to be a clincher; simultaneously calls Pieguyn town and scum in the same sentence while changing gears onto Plum, who was in his top two town reads prior to this. Avoids the 'craptastic' Pasch wagon although he's had Pasch as a scumread of varying strength the whole while

Tries to abuse what is a typo to call me scum, also ignores the context of that post (Plum's self-destruct at the end of day 1).

Stuff that is scummy in a vacuum:

1. Claimed a vig shot at Kaze despite having claimed a no visit track result the previous night. For someone keen to bag on others for their theoretical approach, this makes no sense

2. Equating the negative utility of lovers with your claimed roles. Arguing the back up mod wouldve vetoed crossalignment in your case because of his experience with crossaligned lovers in another game. Having no doubts of his own wrt kthxbye's alignment

1) Doesn't make sense from displaced given that a track result to nowhere means nothing. I was hoping for a track to a kill, but the fact that I didn't get that didn't exonerate Kaze.

2) Argument doesn't make any sense.

Actions the scum RB didnt bother to block ...

Scumslip. If he were town, he would have considered that I may have been blocked, especially given that nobody else claimed an action that failed to go through that day.

You've asked about none of this, nor has displaced addressed more than one point from here.

[BROseidon]

Also, there's the fact that I've done a lot more this game than BS/displaced has. Displaced has a lot of places to spin me-scum, and I have much less to work with b/c BS literally did jack shit as his scum mates went down and displaced has like 30 posts.

[BROseidon]

I mean, I guess I could write a case about why I'm town, but self-town cases are bullshit and should be killed with fire.

[BROseidon]

Oh look, the asshole decided to go away.

[BROseidon]

Holy shit I hope Nati/muffin aren't as dumbfucktarded as kthx.

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

We are, unfortunately.

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

Nati is fairly convinced you're scum, I'm still wavering.

Your points against Brian-slot are rather shit, except for the point about how he changed his opinion on Pasch/mastin in an awkward way D1, but the same applies to you and how your opinion on both of them changed D1.

Soooooo

[BROseidon]

No comment on displaced's scum slip or any specifics?

[BROseidon]

And if you were, you would have already hammered.

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

Brief summary of the points I'm wavering on:

- From a setup perspective, I think it's possible the mod really did fuck up in a way that all flavour mentions in PMs were town -> both flipped scum so far have had flavour fake-claims, which makes no sense to me -> which would by default point to displaced scum -> only reason this wouldn't be the case is if either Kthx's role is a red herring and your fake-claim is Ymir but you're not actually Ymir, or you are actually Ymir and you chose not to use your fake-claim -> it's also rather weird that mastin decided not to spark up controversy about one of you two possibly being scum and just accepted you both as town but didn't kill you off despite your claim looking like seeking lovers or something similar.
- That brian quote I brought up in 2272 is going to bother me until endgame.
- I'm going back over the early game and looking at what happened. Both Pasch and F16 were voting you at one point, both you and Brian were voting F16 at one point, regardless of what was happening here, there was a lot of distancing going on between the scum in the early stages of the game (even if Kthx is actually scum, same thing applies since his slot was pushing F16 the hardest early on). Thing is, both Pasch and F16 jumped off your wagon at the first available opportunity after jumping on. I also found F16 questioning my unvote of you rather awkward.
- I'm not sure why both you and Brian changed your minds on Pasch/mastin. The funny thing is that regardless of who's scum here, all 3 scum were in the first 5 slots of the Plum wagon. And after the early distancing D1, none of you wanted to bus (with the possible exception of Brian if he happens to be scum)

[BROseidon]

Yeah, two unprovable night actions doesnt give me warm fuzzies. That and BRO hasnt at least considered that I could have been scum?

Actions the scum RB didnt bother to block ...

VOTE: BRO

(In case you missed it)

[BROseidon]

- I'm not sure why both you and Brian changed your minds on Pasch/mastin. The funny thing is that regardless of who's scum here, all 3 scum were in the first 5 slots of the Plum wagon. And after the early distancing D1, none of you wanted to bus (with the possible exception of Brian if he happens to be scum)

This is an interesting point.

I wouldn't be surprised if mastin was able to coach Pasch/Brian into not bussing given his sway as a player, especially given that mastin had just beaten Brian in Anything Goes.

[BROseidon]

err, her*

pronouns are hard :/

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

Also displaced's "slip" isn't a slip I think. Also 2431 was really awkward - who alive could possibly answer that outside of Kthx who only used his night action once prior to last night?

displaced is (and kagami was) right that it's awkward they didn't decide to block you, though - instead deciding to block someone who blatantly claimed they had no idea how to use their role effectively and didn't use it N1. Only point I could _possibly_ see in your favour here is that you claimed your actions didn't conflict with flipped/claimed roles, but even that isn't a sensible reason to block Kthx over you.

[BROseidon]

Scum maybe didn't think I'd have an investigative shot given the flavor cop flip?

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

Also I think you missed my point with what I was saying, re: 2468

I'm talking about how neither you or Brian (depending on who's scum) bussed/distanced from any of your partners after the very early stages of D1. Including the end of D1 where you both had mastin and Pasch as town (or at least not worthy of considering a vote on). Neither of you considered voting mastin or Pasch D2. Neither of you considered it D3 until Brian put what he thought was a L-1 vote on mastin.

Scum maybe didn't think I'd have an investigative shot given the flavor cop flip?

What possible actions could you have as a JOAT that don't include at least one investigative ability, given you blatantly claimed not to have a protective ability?

[Rancid Broderick Drake]

Although I will say that I didn't get anything that conflicts with other people's claims (no neighborize, protect, etc)

[BROseidon]

Ah kk. I see what you're saying. Want me to justify my reads there?

Vig/Roleblock/Redirect/Bus Drive/Gladiate to name a few off the top of my head.