Left 4 Dead Mafia! (Game Over!)

[Venmar]

Votecount 1.5

[1]

Majiffy:

Vezokpiraka

[1]

Toogeloo:

BBMolla

[0] Sekai No Ki:

[2]

SweatingChessBall3:

RedCoyote, Thor665

[1]

PeregrineV:

dopog

[0] RedCoyote:

[3]

Mastin2:

Nero Cain, Rubicon, AngryPidgeon

[1]

Alpazard:

GuyInFreezer

[1]

Aegor:

SweatingChessBall3

[0] GuyInFreezer:

[0] Bulbazak:

[0] Thor665:

[4]

Svenskt Stål:

ActionDan, Alpazard, Bulbazak, Zdenek

[3]

Rubicon:

PeregrineV, Toogeloo, mastin2

[0] ActionDan:

[3]

Vezokpiraka:

Svenskt Stal, Aegor, pidgey

[0] BBMolla:

[0] Pidgey:

[0] AngryPidgeon:

[0] Dopog:

[0] Nero Cain:

[0] Zdenek:

Not Voting (2):

• Majiffy, Sekai No ki

Deadline:

• Monday, March 10th, 2014

Mod Notes:

• With 22 alive, it takes 12 to lynch.

Due to the site crash I am using the votes that were not lost as everyone's latest votes, so keep that in mind as I do not have photographic memory for the votecounts that were lost.

[Toogeloo]

Unvote;
Vote: Red Coyote

[Zdenek]

What changed your mind?

[Toogeloo]

What makes you think I still don't want your lynch?

Bulba was the only person who even glanced at my vote (other than you), meaning no one really cared about it.

Switching gears now.

[Toogeloo]

By the way, the reason your iso is shit to me is that all you do is make little side commentary and ask little questions without resolutions. You haven't posited any theories in regards to those questions, and your scum hunting is essentially, "Yup, this person is scum!"

[Zdenek]

What makes you think I still don't want your lynch?

Bulba was the only person who even glanced at my vote (other than you), meaning no one really cared about it.

Switching gears now.

Nothing, but that's not what I'm asking about.

[Zdenek]

By the way, the reason your iso is shit to me is that all you do is make little side commentary and ask little questions without resolutions. You haven't posited any theories in regards to those questions, and your scum hunting is essentially, "Yup, this person is scum!"

I just skimmed my ISO and that's pretty clearly false. I mean I might do that some of the time, when what I'm talking about is pretty obvious. Is there something that you're curious about?

[Zdenek]

and as far as questions not having resolutions, it's not really my fault that PV is a lunatic.

[Toogeloo]

"This post is a scum-claim."

"This hardly seems like something you would say."

"Shouldn't you be doing the opposite of voting them them? It just seems like you've lost your mind. I mean why are you helping them to not be here tomorrow?"

"Who is this?"

"You should probably just vote him for now, and trust that good things will happen."

"Something (over-)confident or (over-)aggressive. You must know this about yourself."

"Bulbazak, you don't feel confident or aggressive because Mastin called you an a-hole?"

"I'm more worried about Mastin not picking up on your sarcasm."

"Mastin demanding that people explain their town read on him doesn't seem genuine. He often gets town reads on people for fairly weak reasons, and kind of doubt that he didn't understand why SNK would have a town read on him."

"Bulba is probably scum."

"He claimed?"

"There is no claim in Bulba's ISO."

"I don't want to talk about the mechanic too much just yet."

"AP, SCB3, are hitting nice notes. Aegor, BBmolla, look town."

"Did you even explain your read on Vezok?"

"Where's the game and what is your point?"



Plus there was the comment about Sven looking like Caught Scum.


This is the entirety of your iso (that is available) when I voted you. It just goes on like this. Little side commentaries and fluff questions filled with lots of quote blocks. It's the type of content that scum do to look active.

[Zdenek]

Do you seriously have a problem with each of those posts?

[Toogeloo]

As a whole, yes.

[Zdenek]

What is your problem with this?

"Mastin demanding that people explain their town read on him doesn't seem genuine. He often gets town reads on people for fairly weak reasons, and kind of doubt that he didn't understand why SNK would have a town read on him."

[Toogeloo]

What is your problem with this?

"Mastin demanding that people explain their town read on him doesn't seem genuine. He often gets town reads on people for fairly weak reasons, and kind of doubt that he didn't understand why SNK would have a town read on him."

Are you really trying to defend your entire iso because of the one post that actually looks like content?

[Zdenek]

"This post is a scum-claim."

"This hardly seems like something you would say."

"Shouldn't you be doing the opposite of voting them them? It just seems like you've lost your mind. I mean why are you helping them to not be here tomorrow?"

"Who is this?"

"You should probably just vote him for now, and trust that good things will happen."

"Something (over-)confident or (over-)aggressive. You must know this about yourself."

"Bulbazak, you don't feel confident or aggressive because Mastin called you an a-hole?"

"I'm more worried about Mastin not picking up on your sarcasm."

"Mastin demanding that people explain their town read on him doesn't seem genuine. He often gets town reads on people for fairly weak reasons, and kind of doubt that he didn't understand why SNK would have a town read on him."

"Bulba is probably scum."

"He claimed?"

"There is no claim in Bulba's ISO."

"I don't want to talk about the mechanic too much just yet."

"AP, SCB3, are hitting nice notes. Aegor, BBmolla, look town."

"Did you even explain your read on Vezok?"

"Where's the game and what is your point?"



Plus there was the comment about Sven looking like Caught Scum.


This is the entirety of your iso (that is available) when I voted you. It just goes on like this. Little side commentaries and fluff questions filled with lots of quote blocks. It's the type of content that scum do to look active.

1. Rubicon's post is a scum-claim because he was questioning someone having town reads in a group of players that contained him.

2. I've played with Bulbazak he is usually over-confident and aggressive. So him saying that he has crippling doubt is surprising.

3. Peregrine's reason is fucking stupid.

4. If someone is talking about a player and I don't know who it is, I am going to ask about it.

5. I was encouraging someone to help with a wagon early in the game. They are useful.

6. Addressed above.

7. Talking with Bulbazak about his change in play.

8. Mastin missing obvious sarcasm indicates that he's not reading carefully. For some players it wouldn't bother me, but with Mastin, it makes me think that he's not trying to read people.

9. I really don't see why you're complaining about this.

10. Bulba moved his vote to Aegor presumably for Aegor talking about being willing to end the day, which is a boilerplate reason for scum reading someone.

11. If someone talks about a claim that I don't see, I'm going to ask about it.

12. same topic.

13. I didn't want to talk about the mechanic yet, so laa dee daw.

14. AP and SCB3 were hitting nice notes. SBC3: reading GiF as town, BB as town, Mastin as scum, Svensk, PV as scum. AP: Mastin as scum, SB3 as town, Aegor as town, Rubicon's suspicious post. Aegor looked town because of the discussion about Bulbazak, and BBmolla seemed townish early for pushing policy lynches.

15. I think that Svensk is scum pushing BS, and I'm going to question him on it.

16. How can I understand what SnK is talking about if I don't know what game they are referring to and why.

17. I can't help it, if you can't read posts very well.


Now what the fuck is your problem?

[Zdenek]

What is your problem with this?

"Mastin demanding that people explain their town read on him doesn't seem genuine. He often gets town reads on people for fairly weak reasons, and kind of doubt that he didn't understand why SNK would have a town read on him."

Are you really trying to defend your entire iso because of the one post that actually looks like content?

Nope. It just sprung out to me as something that shouldn't have been on your list.

[Zdenek]

and I still want you to explain why you changed your vote

[Zdenek]

Actually, I don't care anymore. No scum would want to set themselves up to defend that pile of horse crap.

[RedCoyote]

Well, I was going to read over the thread tonight, but now I don't know what to do.

The scum will use the lost/recovered posts to screw with us.

I'd like to talk about actual theme stuff, but I guess that can wait until D2.

Mod

, is the game focused only on Left 4 Dead theme-wise or is it possible that it will have Left 4 Dead 2 elements as well?

[RedCoyote]

I guess I'll read up to post 360 and then stop there for now. Give me a little while.

[Toogeloo]

Nope. It just sprung out to me as something that shouldn't have been on your list.

This is the entirety of your iso

I wasn't kidding.

And all you did was justify the posts for the reason you made them, when my issue is with

the way

that you actually aren't backing up anything and just posting a bunch of nothing important en masse.

[RedCoyote]

Alright, I just read up the game. I don't expect anyone to read over my notes word for word since I will sum everything up at the end, but you should read through them if you want a better idea about how I'm arriving at my conclusions. I would also like it if you read the questions I ask of you specifically.

Spoiler: Game Notes through post 360 (right before the site crash)

They confirmed way too late so they were being either lazy or scum.

And you're inclined to think it was the latter? Why? Also, why are you saying that it's semi-serious? Is it or is it not serious? Also also, why single out that play for late confirmation? I know for a fact that both myself and Thor (Thor as evidenced by the OP) were also late to confirm.

---

Right, so I'm pretty dang certain this opener makes you town, but serious question--I was the third-to-last to confirm; does that make me scum, too?

I disagree. I think it's old hat. You having to ask that question should tell you that it wasn't anything special. You, DGB and BB need to check yourselves on this read.

And why would you assume they're scum again?

Eh, just kind of a fun place to throw my first vote.

---

So doesn't that make it, "not random?"

Yes. Yes, it does.

---

Why so serious?

Serious = scum?

---

So I just caught you for wrong reason. Noted!

Good point.

---

because it's taking the fun but instead of running with it (voting Aegor), he takes this approach, to avoid drawing attention to himself.

I disagree with you here, mastin. I think he would draw more attention to himself by voting himself (even though he's the second player to do so) than he would by joining the leading wagon.

I don't necessarily think it makes Aegor or Rubicon more or less likely to be scum.

---

How can you have a gut townread of a player that hasn't posted yet?

This.

---

Not everything I'm posting is

actually

serious. It's just meant to look that way. Everything I post is at least semi-serious, in that I do have reasons for it--but I do exaggerate.

I despise this entire post, but this segment in particular seems very forced.

mastin: dopog would be a mislynch!
Bulb: ...but dopog hasn't posted yet. How could you know that?
mastin: Well, I'm not being serious. I just want it to look like I am. I mean, I'm semi-serious all the time. But I exaggerate. But I am actually serious because I have a feeling it dogor is town. But he could be scum.

Yuck. A million times yuck. Only scum would think that kind of overjustification would look rational.

---

(BTW, I think mastin is town now)

Because of the gender stuff? What does that have to do with mastin's alignment?

---

Also, how do we want to approach this mechanic? I would think that we should have informal votes (perhaps closer to the end of the day) to designate horde victim pools.

I was thinking about how beneficial it would be to discuss this earlier, but I don't know if it will help us much since there's no real way of checking whether or not those with the hoarde directional ability do what you tell them to do.

---

I really like Rubicon's 108.

---

I am not. I repeat. NOT. Accepting townreads on me, when I've specifically gone out of my way to weird players out. Like...Nero's response is probably from town. That, I'd expect. Not...this.

Normally, I'd like this comment. I think scummastin is plenty capable of writing this, however.

Dat OMGUS.

It's still OMGUS when he specifically explained why he was voting you?

---

He OMGUSed mastin with only 3 voets on him and still in RVS.

It was RVS up until post 108, vez?

---

That said, I have enough respect for him to provide a chance for future gains, as I feel respectfully confident in my ability to read him correctly.

I don't understand why this would necessarily preclude a vote though. I mean, that's the whole point of using your vote, Thor. At least, that's how I approach the game as town.

To put it another way, you could vote mastin even though you're not too confident on your current scumread of mastin and be open to the idea of changing your vote should you want to.

Weird post.

---

Yay thor. The guy we need to sheep to get a win.

1) You say we should sheep Thor to get a win, but you don't vote SC with him.
2) Thor said he had a scumread on mastin, which, based on your only post thus far, seems to be opposite of your read of the game.

The reason I bring these points up is because this post was lazily made and you didn't take the time to put much thought into whether or not Thor's contribution was a good one or not.

---

Do you want me to count the reasons why?

mastin only asked you to do this twice and voted you because you hadn't done so...

In other words, YES.

The town motivation for posting this in response to Aegor's RVS vote saying he was pushing a mislynch is that it's true

This is way overthought. Ain't no one going to remember what mastin said in some stray post about dopog on page 6 on day 4, page 68. So to say that mastin is taking a mislynch off the table is a joke at best. Players change their minds all the time. Other players forget what other players reads are. Heck, look at the post above. AD made a grand total of five posts when Thor asked AD what his DGB read was.

AD's 71: DGB is town.

So, I mean, is AD now 100% town because he's taking an SC mislynch off the table? But my greater point is that Thor missed AD's 71, which was much more obvious that mastin's point about dopog.

---

Mastin demanding that people explain their town read on him doesn't seem genuine. He often gets town reads on people for fairly weak reasons, and kind of doubt that he didn't understand why SNK would have a town read on him.

Do you think Rubicon and mastin are scum together?

---

Also, I want us to decide on an approach to the zombie kills ASAP. I am thinking that maybe around five days until deadline (unless a wagon really gains speed before then) we start posting our top three suspects and work toward a list that every town person is willing to submit. I really like the idea of using them as policy lynches and lurk lynches in order to retain info from the day lynch; that is the obvious play.

Well, I'm happy to post my scumreads all day, but, the more I think about it, the less inclined I am about having those choices planned out.

---

As for the mechanic, it's my opinion that if you are a VT, just submit your own choices and screw what everyone else thinks. Only town has control of the mechanic, so to try and take control of it from those people means you don't trust them and are willing to allow scum to influence their choices.

Yeah, this is where I am. I don't think I'd mind Thor's idea, but since we can't hold players to voting the people we tell them to, we really can't except that to be extremely effective.

Still, there's no harm in saying "this group of people is thought of as popular scumreads and good policy lynches".

Like, for example, I think most people would throw vez in that group, and I would be happy with that.

---

mastin seems mastin to me at the moment, dunno why everyone is afraid when mastin mastins. Its annoying yes, but not necessary scum at the moment.

So I take it you are piggybacking on sekai's 152?

---

I've seen this format elsewhere.

zora did/does it in some of the games he mods. I don't know if anyone else does, but supposedly there's a script for auto catching votes using that format.

---

*raises hand*

You've actually done zero content-wise. You've been loud and arrogant, but you're a paper tiger. I have no read on you one way or another.

---

You are reading the mod's info in the most rose-colored way possible if you believe scum won't be given at least one if not more tools to influence the horde.

Oh, you know, this is actually a pretty good point. Theme-wise, it's likely the scumteam will have something similar to a pipebomb/molotov cocktail.

---

Maybe Molla (actually he might be a Mafia Usurper Traitor this game)

This is oddly specific. Why?

---

There's no way it was accidental. Nero is nowhere in the post you quoted from. You would have had to insert his name manually.

Elaborate on this for everyone using links and careful rhetoric. This is a pretty big accusation you are lobbing against him. AD needs to be held accountable, but I need to hear this argument play out because it could significantly change my stance on both of you.

---

Rubicon's p much ignoring his wagon.

I don't think this is generally scummy. This case is no different.

---

If you want to figure me out, maybe just ask me something?

For what it's worth, Rubicon, I have you as a townread.

---

unvote
vote PeregrineV

You spend this entire post talking about Bulb and then you vote Pere? Why didn't you mention anything about Pere? This vote is really awkward.

---

I'm not really a big fan of the bolded 'cause like if town aren't sending in similar lists then certain people have less and less chance of getting horde killed.

True, but you're discounting the up side of Toog's plan: That the scum cannot influence the collective hoarde push if it is left more independent.

That being said, now I'm coming back around to agreeing with Thor.

---

This type of insane troll logic is basically something I can only see coming from a town-Peregrine.

I kind of agree with this, but I still think Pere would make a good lynch.

...I specifically went out of my way to

avoid

doing those things.

Eh, cop out. I don't buy it. You still read the same to me. It's easy for you to put on a big song and dance because of the gender thing, I think. By this I mean, you're easily able to say "I'm completely different now, so if you have a scumread on me, it's because you haven't figured out the new me yet~!"

Also, I change my mind: dopog's ridiculously town. Never lynch this guy. He is town, through-and-through. This one, I'm having a bit of trouble explaining right here and now (which is bad; I'm specifically trying to break that habit this game), but it is towntowntowntowntown.

I don't get this at all. Null at best, and even that would take some convincing. He's all over the place. I'll wait until he has to actually handle some pressure to be more definitive about him though.

---

"I'm being scummy and not town at all but it's

on purpose

so it's okay!"

This. This is exactly my position on mastin.

---

He asks questions. He actually tries to think of othe rposibilities except Rubicon.
He gives a few reads.

He gives 3 completely unexplained townreads, 1 completely unexplained vote, and 1 fencesitting read on Bulb. Not what I'd call the post of the year, vez.

---

At the end of the day, I'm not overly concerned about the way you guys want to handle the VT thing. Either A) I'm not VT and it doesn't apply to me any ways and I probably don't any control over what you guys choose to do, or B) I am VT and would just use my ability the way I want anyways because screw herd mentality and giving scum info.

Gosh, I love playing with you as town, Toog. I only wish that one day I could trust that you'd never vote yourself (a horrible, horrible habit that you should cease doing ever again). Aside from that though, quotes like this make it such a joy to play with you. I can tell you are town.

---

I've played with Toog before and I think he says some blisterly anti-town shit as town so he's town via meta? IDK, I hate the idea of giving someone a townread based on derp.

But can't you accept that players may approach the game different than you and not necessarily be scum?

---

If I flavor spec'd a bit and the mechanic, I think it's likely for scum to have something like bile bomb.

A bile bomb depends on if L4D2 flavor would make it into this game or not.

Based on what I've read so far, I have three pretty solid townreads on

Aegor

,

Toog

and

Rubicon

. Aegor and Toog have specifically said things about the mechanic that were questions I had as town coming into this game. Surprisingly enough, very few players had really brought up the mechanic. I was think that this wouldn't net much benefit because everyone would want to put their two cents in on how the mechanic should be used and, therefore, no one would really benefit from getting any town credit for it. The opposite has been true though, and Aegor and Toog both score good town points for their brainstorming. Toog's feistiness is Toogtown to me. I've never played with Aegor, but he's precocious and makes me actually think about how players are or aren't helping the town. Unlike most of y'all, I liked Rubicon's 108. Good questions of BB (which BB never answered), agreeable reads on mastin and BB, and a light remark with DGB. Maybe because I could see myself making a similar post that I like that post so much. I also think Rubicon and mastin are not scum together, so Rubicon must be town if I scumread mastin (which I am).

I have weaker townreads on

Bulb

,

NC

,

pidgey

and

AP

. Bulb's coming down on mastin has been in line with my own impression of mastin. I also do not think Bulb is faking this overall melancholy attitude he has. He is playing different than what I would otherwise expect of him. I really would like him to elaborate on his AD read though, because that was something that no one else really picked up on. NC has been consistent and aggressive. I like his presence in the game and I haven't found anything that made me suspect him. pidgey is similar although he doesn't have a strong a presence and I have more disagreements with him. AP has good contributions that are firm and considerate; I'm worried we may butt heads at some point as he starts changing his mind about everything though.

---

The best lynch today would be

mastin

. There has been far too much weight on this idea that mastin's playing differently deliberately. I don't doubt that mastin thinks this, but I don't find it to be the case. Further, even if that's true, that doesn't necessarily mean we can't get a scumread off of it. Let's talk specifics though. 61 is what I consider to be the worst post in the game thus far. mastin's overexplanation of being serious or not is highly questionable. Something that really doesn't sit will with me is this sentence in particular,

Not everything I'm posting is

actually

serious. It's just meant to look that way.

Ugh. That just makes me shudder. That reads as pure scum mentality to me. Later, mastin questions townreads in 118, which I'd usually be supportive of someone doing. I think scummastin is very capable of faking this though, and it comes across as a little too thick. I also question the allegation of OMGUS. This weird accusation drew me closer to Rubicon. I don't think mastin is being honest here. Lastly, in 320, I want to point out mastin continually beating players over the head with the "I'm different now; this means you can't scumread me". mastin isn't saying those words exactly, but doing just enough to get you to arrive at that conclusion on your own.

The second best lynch today would be

vez

. His start in 125 is lame. I don't know what the hell he's talking about in his comment about RVS. He essentially steal's mastin's argument and uses it for his own. There's nothing original here. When we get to 137, vez talks about the town needing to sheep Thor, except that he forgets to sheep him. Now, before you say that vez may just be kidding around, it's also worth noting that Thor called out mastin in 134. This is relevant because it vez seemingly has a townread on mastin. There's a contradiction here, but the main point is that vez didn't take the time to really consider Thor's content likely because he's trying to buddy to him. I don't like vez's townread of dopog in 333 either. dopog's posts have not been anything special. They're pretty detached from one another and scattered, I think. That's a strange person to come out and townread for given how many better candidates there could be.

I usually like to have three good scumreads at this point of a catchup post, but I am having difficulty coming up with a third. This is not because I think the rest of the game is town, but because nearly everyone else is a weak scumread of mine. If I had to pick, it would probably be BB. I don't feel very confident in that though because BB just has so little content to speak of. The jury is still out on

Majiffy

,

Alpazard

and

Sven

. I've got them in a null territory. Everyone I didn't mention I wouldn't be sad to see lynched today, but either mastin or vez should definitely be the choice.

[

Town

]------Aegor-Toog----Rubicon-----AP-Bulb--NC-pidgey---Alpazard-Sven-[

∙

]Majiffy--GIF-Thor--SC-Pere--Zde--sekai-AD-dopog--BB----vez--mastin-----[

Scum

]

[RedCoyote]

UNVOTE: SweatingChessBall3; VOTE: mastin2

[Svenskt Stål]

thats alot of work rc, me likey

and toog went to town on zdenek, literally


zdenek
ap
toog
ad
rc
sekai
thor <--- sliding cuz lack of activity

scumpile, vezok, dopog, alp and majiffy

[RedCoyote]

So many EBWOPs needed for it. I should've proofreaded better, but I am tired. Night!

[Svenskt Stål]

Anyway from what I can remember, BBMolla was a shining beacon of towny-towniness that no one else agrees with, Rubicon was relatively town-looking, everyone wants to lynch him, and no one sees the obvscum of Toog and Vezok. Also Vezok started OMGUSing me.

I´d be really interested in you explaining why toog is scum

I'm waffling on Vezok. I won't let mastin persuade me just yet.

sven could be bussing that.

I AM NOT FUCKING SCUM