Left 4 Dead Mafia! (Game Over!)

[RedCoyote]

I also don't just think that RC is lurking. I think that he is deliberately using the loss of posts as an excuse to not post.
We have a week, so I don't feel the need to vote for someone who can definitely be lynched yet.

I was going to read yesterday, but then I started getting caught up in the Oscars and got kind of lazy. Reading now though.

[dopog]

Now I don't even know what zdenek's read on vezok is anymore.....

[dopog]

Hi!

yeah @sven regarding:

dopog, i am not voting you, i was voting you because you werent as active as i would have liked, why it was you out of all the lurkers? bad luck and maybe alittle bit of my earlier hunch on you

Got kinda halfway through that section of the post and was all "wait is sven voting me at the moment?" so some of it is past tense and some present. I had my own little feels that you were picking me out for more than that. And if it's not then you really need to say what your reads are on the lurkers. I guess you kinda explained rc, but where you're at with sc3 and alp would be nice to know, and just elaborate on peregrineV.

@GIF: just go keep talking about why you're scumreading all on alp instead of keeping on talking that you have the scumread.

Guess rubicon's post is p funny and all - it is! But so much of what he's said is really reading to me "why do you ever need to post that as town? why would you?"
Just thinking on it he probably joins rc in that kinda scum bit.

Speaking of rc: @Ap

From his wall thinking that RedCoyote was afraid of scumreading me. As in sounds as if he wants to scumread me. Hypothesis being that pushing a scumread on me could be perceived as too easy.

Believe me, RC has noooo issue pushing shit reads as scum. In normalized micro he was the sleaziest sleazeball. So just saying this is nota good reason to be suspicious of him.

So you mean he's pretty reckless on who he chooses to push as scum? He's not afraid of lynching whoever? He pushes thin cases really hard? Just give me more here so I can think this out; because I don't know rc.

bye for now

[AngryPidgeon]

So you mean he's pretty reckless on who he chooses to push as scum? He's not afraid of lynching whoever? He pushes thin cases really hard? Just give me more here so I can think this out; because I don't know rc.

IMO, yes. He was shoving me and Danilot in the game I mentioned. We were both the easiest MLs of the Day and we were his top two scumreads.

His case on my slot had some bullshit to do with my predecessor being overdefensive, lurky, and waffly.

[SweatingChessball3]

VOTE: Alpazard

[Aegor]

To the contrary, I think its time to start consolidating. Ideally, we should be lynching someone in the next couple Days to give us breathing room. Ive had too many games where people derp around until the last minute and keep spamming walls.

This is an awesome post.

Catching up on this game because I don't want to get prodded. I haven't had a chance to read all the posts you guys have made, but based on the ones I've looked at, I have this crazy feeling in my gut that most of you are town, and only a few of you are scum. Assuming that's correct, I also have the distinct impression that those of you who are town (I'm thinking a majority?) don't know who each other are, but the scum do know each other, and might have some form of private communication. I think this might even things out because if the scum players weren't more informed than the town, it would be hard for them to work together, and the town players would have trouble telling the difference.

Let me know if I'm missing anything.

Every single word of this post is

terrible

.

[GuyInFreezer]

@GIF: just go keep talking about why you're scumreading all on alp instead of keeping on talking that you have the scumread.

But that's what I'm doing?

[Zdenek]

Now I don't even know what zdenek's read on vezok is anymore.....

He's far enough down my list of concerns that I no longer care about him.

[GuyInFreezer]

Every single word of this post is terrible.

Terrible as in?
Because I just took it as a jocular prod dodge.

[RedCoyote]

Spoiler: More Stuff

I don't remember what exactly.

It obviously didn't leave much of an impression on you if you are this indifferent.

---

Mastin is intentionally obfuscating emotions / content by being willfully scummy. This is anti-town at best, potentially scum motivated, and not allowed to live beyond D3 unless somehow confirmed.

Agree 100%.

---

I never manage to sway a town with any case I make so I'm rarely doing that.

The thing is, vez, no one is asking you to be the town leader here. I think all Sven is asking is that you explain what pinged your gut. If you can't explain it, then you should be prepared to catch flak for that.

---

P-edit: Vezok looks townie because hes not afraid to say whats on his mind as he has the thought. His majiffy vote looks town here since hes not afraid to throw it out and see where it goes without backlash from having forgot why he had it. I think this is sort of the stuff mastin is picking up on.

See, this resonates with me one million times better than mastin saying, "Oh, vez plays like me, so read him again and you'll see he's town".

I get where you are coming from here. I'm still really concerned with him buddying mastin though. It also doesn't explain the Thor situation I described in 495.

---

Town does it all the time.

I'm with Sven on this one. Maybe you cannot point to something specific because you didn't take notes/are too lazy to re-read, but you can at least communicate in vague concepts. vez could say a number of things in this regard, "I seem to recall townMajiffy being more active", "I think townMajiffy was critical of player X at one point, but that didn't make sense to me", etc.

---

Not remembering EXACTLY why Majiffy is scummy isn't a scumtell?

Why not? As scum, if I can get away with voting someone without being held accountable for it, I'll take it every time.

---

This is the entirety of your iso (that is available) when I voted you. It just goes on like this. Little side commentaries and fluff questions filled with lots of quote blocks. It's the type of content that scum do to look active.

This is a great point. This is another solid Toogtown post.

---

Now what the fuck is your problem?

Lol @ faking being offended. Lol @ acting like scum caught for the wrong reason.

---

Vezok's post here rang aggressively null to me.

...But you agreed with mastin that vez was acting town?

---

My post was a joke and not intended to be taken seriously.
Also Thor has his own way of making people sheep him.

So then will you say that, unequivocally, the town should not sheep Thor? Given that you two have very different reads on this game, I mean.

---

That might make sense...if I hadn't had a vote in play elsewhere. So...whut? Seriously, justify why you found this weird some more.

Your SC vote wasn't presented or argued seriously, in my opinion, so to say your vote was "in play" is dishonest.

You note this but it is literally only IIoA. I agree that I didn't note Action Dan's post here or make commentary about it...but what does that say about anything?

This isn't a point against you. I was making a point to sekai about their mastin read.

---

He is softly defending fucking scummy players like majiffy without any real thought or presence. Just like throwing it out there for adding some substance and posterity to come back too it seems, all the while without actually being talkative about it.
Me no like. i KNOW he might do these at times, but I especially dislike the people he defends (vezok, majiffy) without any reasoning. Bb is scummy now.

Love, love, love this post by pidgey. I agree 100%.

---

I don't even remember where my vote was previously and am too lazy to look.

This further proves the point I just made above in this post.

---

alp wagon is cool but i am going to #rebel and stay on vbezok

What's good for the goose is good for the gander, Sven. Why's it good?

alp wagon is cool cuz i say so

:\

---

Can you explain your townread on pidgey for me? I don't really have one at all and I don't see anything in your post that indicates you should have one either.

I like 215, 293, 305, 353, and 506. I don't agree with all of these posts, mind you, but I do think pidgey has been very upfront about his reads and you can understand where he's coming from. Post 506 I like in particular because I think BB is being cut way too much slack from the game as a whole.

---

rc´s post was good but i´d like to see some interactions

You say this, but you didn't really engage me at all. To be fair, I didn't really ask you any questions, but it would've been nice to see you pick out a thing or two from what I said to run with in some way if your stance is going to be that you need to see me interact to get a better read on me.

I was on board with your vez case, but I'm not liking these latest posts of yours.

---

SC = StrangerCoug. Different acronyms for DGB/Chess will help me.

Same here, but he's not in this game.

---

They come back to that same RVS wagon throughout the entire game. No, seriously. I see it done, time and time again, across all games. The easiest example to cite is in Xenogears, where there was an eight-person wagon in the early-stages of the game on TiphaineDeath. All nine players were analyzed to death (literally, death) on that wagon--not just immediately. But continuously throughout the game. It doesn't take a genius to figure that out. That's why it was a scumtell from Rubicon.

Was Rubicon in that game?

Ignore the word "actually" and use the more accurate "entirely". Throughout that post (and all subsequent posts!), I make it crystal-clear that's what I meant.

You can't go back and rewrite history here, mastin. "I said X, but I meant Y". Words have meanings. It's not even so much that I am concerned the degree of certainty you're talking about here. I hate the overally feel of the post. The post is trying too hard to defend your position. Like, I could see scummastin's brain working here, thinking that this was a serious liability to call dopong town without him having made any posts, so you force extra hard this crazy story about how "sometimes you say things that are actually, really, totally serious" but sometimes when you say "actually, really, totally, you mean semi-serious, exaggerated reasons".

Yet if you bother to read those posts for more than a second, you'll realize exactly how transparently semi-serious (rather than entirely serious or entirely joking) they are.

So everytime you say X I should step back and consider that you really meant to say Y?

Then you don't know me. At all. It's right there. In my posting. That painfully-obvious effort to not be the same person.

The only thing I can say about your meta is that you post a lot, are verbose, use a lot of smileys, and overuse bold/italic/underline tags. I see no departure from that in your play this game. Call that a shallow perception of your meta, but I call relying on meta a pretty shallow way of playing Mafia to begin with.

And I'm sick of that. Of, frustratingly, having been off my mark. Time. And time. again. Of maybe eventually getting nightkilled, but having been nightkilled more out of pity and respect for my theoretical capabilities rather than for my actual skill. You don't know me.

Poor you. This is a lot of talk though, mastin. This does nothing for me. I mean, this is actually exactly what I am talking about. You're putting all this effort into selling me on you being this oh-so-different player and that I am wrong to read you as scum due to these differences. I really don't think this reads as town. This is too myopic.

As AP said, I know me, better than any other player knows themselves.

Great, but you're not the person you have to convince of your alignment.

Generally, a person being all over the place is a town player who hasn't gotten into their element, rather than a scum player lashing out at every possible target.

And what makes dopog a "generally" player?

Ignore the amount of words. BBMolla's never been much for elaborate wording.

I can get townreads on players with little content. Players are more than capable of being concise and brief and looking very town. DGB is probably the quintessential example of this. I don't always read her as town (not decided on her slot in this game yet), but she's always straight to the point.

You've got to have content that backs it up your reads though. Content doesn't just mean words, it means communicating your thoughts and ideas in a way that I can understand and appreciate, regardless of whether I agree with you or not. BB hasn't done this.

Majiffy and Sven are both scum.

For what it's worth, I'm not liking either of these players at the moment.

You're essentially townreading Rubicon because you're scumreading me. You might not think that's the case, but it is; your entire reasoning for having Rubicon as town basically resolves around me flipping scum.

No, you're right. I do not consider you two to both be scum, so that necessarily gives him a lot of town weight in my eyes.

ITT mastin is scum for making bad zombie puns in a zombie game.

mastin, don't point out your own jokes, ffs.

---

Heavily heavily heavily disagree.

Let me guess, because his meta is to be useless, right?

---

These are pretty boring reads, lets be honest.

Fair, but he also called out other people not on that list (not sure why they aren't).

---

RC's scumreading me for all the wrong reasons.

Smoker tongue: mastin2

---

So, on one hand, there are some players you'd like to see some pressure on.
But a null read of *the entire player base* is not one of them because, hey, that must be a scum counter wagon.
A counterwagon generated by...me and GiF...neither of whom you're calling scum.
Talk to me mastin.

:goodposting:

I like this entire post. Thor gets some townpoints.

---

Also, when have I ever really sheeped you?

When you made a goddamn flowchart telling the entire website to do so all day, everyday.

---

I'd be happy if you spoke about it now, since I don't know the theme and it would probably be helpful.

Honestly, it would be better to wait until we see some flips/night actions. I only have one small piece of the puzzle (my role), so it won't benefit us much for me to speculate. I just wanted to be on the record as being very familiar with the theme and capable of discussing it.

At the moment, I'm all that sold on Rubicon being scum.

You dodged my question though. :\

So they're both town?

---

Majiffy's 623 is solid.

---

AP your townread on PV bugs me, he's the lurking scum, the other scum are probably big names.

This is the best post you've made so far.

---

Not really seeing redcoyote just getting townread out of the wall

pssttt... you forgot the "because..." part in your post here.

---

I'm a little wary about townreading the hell out of redcoyote again on the basis of an awesome catch-up post.

*shrug*

I empirically do it as scum or town. I do it when I'm considerably behind to prove that I am reading the game and trying my best to read the game fairly OR to set the stage for my scum attacks.

---

RedCoyote, could you explain how you decided on the positions of Alpazard, Sven, SC, Peregine and BB in your ordering?

Yeah, sure, I'll try.

Alpazard and Sven I've explained are null reads of mine. That's why they're close to the middle of my scumscale. Their positions are still very fluid and may be changing as I read them more (Sven has deteriorated somewhat as of me writing this comment, for instance).

SC and Pere haven't done all that much to impress me. By now, they should've. chess especially has been particularly silent. I get the feeling like that hydra is arguing internally and is unsure where to make their moves. I really see that as more fitting of a scum role than a town one. BB has done next to nothing to convince me he's working to help the town. His comments have been forgetful and lacking in substance. That said, he just improved a bit, so now he's made a bit of change for the better.

---

Why? It looks surprisingly empty coming from notsci hydra

Agreed.

---

mastin is scum. this is too abrasive to be town mastin. mastin is all about working and interacting with other people. I can't see town-him ever telling people to go "straight to hell". not only that but he's implying RC is worse than a VI bc he's saying that was a scumhunting technique he used ever since he was a VI. not only that but he's being suspicious of RC without actually trying to figure anything out about his alignment and he instead writes him off as town. put two and two together and he's basically discrediting and downplaying the skill level of someone he thinks is town which is smth I could never see from someone who enjoys the humanity aspect o the game. the rest of the post is way too forceful and not similar at all to what I know of his towngame

Gosh, this is refreshing and original. This is really nice to see, this 180 from your slot. ffery is on board with this?

---

he puts in work and he is a good player, very very bad day 1 lynch

No, I disagree. I disagree strongly. No player should be immune to lynching on D1 regardless of seniority or a subjective measure of "ability".

none of these players should have be townleans.

lolwut

You yourself gave me a townread a few pages prior to this in 497. Post count /= effort. Case in point: BBMolla. I could visit this website every 4-5 hours and say "mastin is scum", but I don't think that'll do a whole lot of good. Jumping to such a short-sighted conclusion is poor form, Sven.

---

Thirty pages and not one hint of game-decimating paranoia.

Oh, DGB................... I hate it when you are so right.

Don't let me forget I said this.

---

Actually, I have a townread on Mastin, but I can understand how you could miss that, since it was eaten up by the thread.

Huh. Well, that changes things for the worse.

---

AP your reaction to chessball was really bad

Agreed.

Dang, AP. You're letting these two punks take you down a peg!

---

I'd be willing to OMGUS-lynch DGB today. Her reason for voting me is pretty bad.

It's actually pretty good. It's something I was going to be concerned about (I mentioned it in my wall), but you haven't done it so far. I don't know what to make of this. I should be scumreading you, buddy, but you're acting extremely rational. Too rational for AP to act.

---

As I said before, legitimately wondered what he was smoking in order to have created the train of thought that he did. I will not discredit RC as a player, because I respect his talent. I will discredit his reads, because they do not match the level that they should for him.

I appreciate that, but that's just not the impression I got after reading through the thread. I think you are hiding something, mastin. I think you are scum.

---

ignored because, #lolbulba

I don't get this. I guess this is supposed to be an inside joke that I'm not in on.

---

Do you really believe a scum player would shut you down that way, when a modicum of cooperation would probably deflect you?

What if a modicum of cooperation led to more questions that led to Sven catching more spotlight? What if the shutdown of Bulb led to Bulb doing more lurking (as he has been this game) and no one calling Sven on it? Also, Bulb has made it clear in this game that he intends not to play as aggressively as he usually does. Maybe Sven remembered that and thought he could push him around a bit, hm?

---

Gut?

I bet we could come up with 20 instances of the word "gut" so far in this thread. I'm not absolutely opposed to the concept, but it should be used rarely and it should carry a certain weight to it somehow. This does not meet that standard, AP.

I'm stopping for the night at the top of page 35. I'm really liking pieguy's comments. DGB says the right thing to win over my heart as is getting to become the norm. Good showings by Toog, pidgey, Thor, Majiffy, GIF, and BB from pages 17-35. Bad showings from Bulb, AP, Alpazard, AD, Sven, Zde, dopog, and mastin. vez drops from number 2 on my list, I think.

[Town]------Aegor-Toog-----Rubicon--pidgey-Thor----sekai-NC-Majiffy--Bulb--AP[∙]--GIF-SC-BB--Alpazard-Pere---AD--vez--Sven-Zde-dopog---mastin-----[Scum]

Pool of people I am happy to lynch: mastin, dopog, Zde, Sven, vez, AD, Pere, or Alpazard.

[Zdenek]

I didn't dodge your question, you asked me if I thought two people were buddies, me saying that I don't think that one of them is scum is a no.

Do you think that scum-Mastin, gives a fake gut town read on his scum-buddy dopog?
Personally, I think that if Mastin is scum, that slip basically tells us that dopog is town.

[GuyInFreezer]

Good showings by Toog, pidgey, Thor, Majiffy,

GIF

, and BB from pages 17-35.

>Gets quoted once

:<

[Zdenek]

Vezok who RC, aside from Mastin, argues most strongly against in his posts appears highest in list before we get to the lurkers. The only particular thing he had a problem with regarding Sven seems to be that Sven gave him a town lean in one post and then said that no one should be giving those a players a town lean. Well okay, it's not a lie, but its pretty clear that Sven just went to Activity Overview and made a list of low posters - it's thoughtless, but I don't see enough scum intent there to justify RC's stance. As far as I can tell his desire to lynch me is an attempt to buddy with Toogeloo, but I'm biased. He doesn't give any reason to read dopog as scum, so I assume that has to do with lolzy connections with Mastin. As far as his read on Mastin goes, the fact that it lacks any subtlety probably means that it's bs.

[Zdenek]

WOO HOO! SCUM CAUGHT!

[Zdenek]

I also conjecture that after AP shared that little gem of pushing easy lynches meta RC moved Vez and Alpa's names up the list a bit, which is what got him into all this trouble.

[Zdenek]

Well, or he's buddies with at least one of them.

[Alpazard]

Here tomorrow to sheep gif

I mean skim

I mean catch up

Oh cool. Blah blah blah

[Alpazard]

Last sentence was in regards to this shittastic wagon on us btw

[Bulbazak]

Catching up on this game because I don't want to get prodded. I haven't had a chance to read all the posts you guys have made, but based on the ones I've looked at, I have this crazy feeling in my gut that most of you are town, and only a few of you are scum. Assuming that's correct, I also have the distinct impression that those of you who are town (I'm thinking a majority?) don't know who each other are, but the scum do know each other, and might have some form of private communication. I think this might even things out because if the scum players weren't more informed than the town, it would be hard for them to work together, and the town players would have trouble telling the difference.

Let me know if I'm missing anything.

From

Basic Mafia

by Rubicon.

Actually, I have a townread on Mastin, but I can understand how you could miss that, since it was eaten up by the thread.

Huh. Well, that changes things for the worse.

So when someone has a read that you disagree with, they're automatically scum?

ignored because, #lolbulba

I don't get this. I guess this is supposed to be an inside joke that I'm not in on.

No, it's just Sven avoiding answering questions directed at him.

Also, if that action is real, you might want to post it outside the spoilers.

[Zdenek]

RC is quite obviously scum, and you should vote him.

[Bulbazak]

RC is quite obviously scum, and you should vote him.

I think you need to reassess your reads. They've been getting progressively worse.

[Zdenek]

RC is quite obviously scum, and you should vote him.

I think you need to reassess your reads. They've been getting progressively worse.

Why are you town reading him?

[Zdenek]

You also don't seem to have a stated read on snk and you seem to be town reading pidgey, but you don't say why.

[Toogeloo]

blatant prod dodge is blatant.

Anyone want to dutch rudder with me? It'd be more exciting than what's currently going on in the thread.

[Bulbazak]

Why are you town reading him?

Because I don't think he'd be playing like this as scum.

You also don't seem to have a stated read on snk

Scum.

and you seem to be town reading pidgey, but you don't say why.

I guess you could say gut. It's one of my weaker townreads.