Marvel Avengers Alliance - Game over

[Yates]

@Thor:

Yiley's simply a policy lynch you want to push because you're so annoyed with him, not because you think he's scum.

He's got you there. Yiley looks way more like a policy lynch. I would consider Yiley tomorrow, I guess, but I'd really like to see cxi go away today. Tomorrow you can tell us why we should vote Yiley over - say - AntiHero.

[smargaret]

Yiley had this conversation about how he'll play the game at the end of the day yesterday. Yiley also had this conversation when he first showed up. Annoyed is right *headdesk*

Cxin is just so scummy, though. Cxin vs PV - PV is posting stuff. Stuff I disagree with, true, and stuff that indicates that he skimmed a lot of the early game (which may be nothing more than replacing in). Cxin isn't. At least one of them is surviving today, and I'd rather have PV around tomorrow than cxin.

[smargaret]

PV, what part of I had a townread on Zekrom do you not understand? I was asking questions to try and figure out what everyone else was, but I already had a townread on Zek. And I tend to ask questions when things catch my eye, especially D1 - I'm not totally sure why you think questioning Zakk is a problem.

Anyway, from reading through the stuff I missed, PV came across as scummy, mostly in the desperation to get a counterwagon going so we don't lynch cxin today. Granted, that means I have way too many scumreads, but another couple of flips will fix that, and cxin needs rope - unless we're actually getting the cop result today?

Pere needs rope because he's pushing you, cxin needs rope because he's likely to be hung today.

Good Jesus.

PV needs rope because he's pushing me, but he either hasn't actually read the posts he's citing as evidence of my scumminess (specifically, where I got the townread on Zek) or he's misrepping like heck. And I was pushing cxin before pushing cxin was cool /hipster.

[cxinlee]

I don't have anything to claim btw

Why not? Do you think there's scum on your wagon?

Not everyone is a pr, you know.

Do you have to be a PR to *think* there's scum on your wagon?

No, but you need to be a pr to have a claim, or at least a genuine one.

Were you reading my post in a hurry?

[cxinlee]

Cxin's shutdown looks like the following:

1) Scum that's getting bussed and trying to shut down to deny associatives.

2) Scum that's given up on the game.

3) Town that's playing against his win con.

Lynch ahoy!

I essentially gave up when I figured there was no way I'm actually living through today. And Thor threatened to hammer.


What would model town have done in this situation (Pls don't say, get reads, or something along that)?

[cxinlee]

Oh and I actually do have reads now, please delay hammer till I post them.

[Yates]

Were you reading my post in a hurry?

Were you only answering the first question and not the second? Do you see why one would fairly assume you used that

excuse

answer

to respond to both questions?

[jasonT1981]

Day 2 vote count 10

Cxinlee 5 - Bulbazak,Yates,smargaret,BROseidon,penguin_alien,
Smargaret 2 - PeregrineV,T S O,
PeregrineV 1 - Thor665,
Bulbazak 1 - Antihero

not voting

Yiley
cxinlee

V/LA

BROseidon - Friday 7th

Prods sent out

None

With 11 alive it takes 6 to lynch.

(expired on 2014-03-16 16:48:46)

till Day 2 Deadline

[Thor665]

Because he's not being scummy, he's just doing absolutely nothing, whereas cxinlee is an actual scumfuck. Yiley's simply a policy lynch you want to push because you're so annoyed with him, not because you think he's scum.

Why don't you want to lynch smargaret?

@Thor:

Yiley's simply a policy lynch you want to push because you're so annoyed with him, not because you think he's scum.

He's got you there. Yiley looks way more like a policy lynch. I would consider Yiley tomorrow, I guess, but I'd really like to see cxi go away today. Tomorrow you can tell us why we should vote Yiley over - say - AntiHero.

Wow, he "got me" there?
And you think it's a policy lynch.

Both of you are ignoring my point at the beginning of day where I discussed my conclusion that it's a newbie scumteam and pointed out my likely list of suspects to back that conclusion.
Hint: that's not what a policy lynch looks like.

@Yates - if you can't spot why Yiley would need to be lynched over Antihero...I...I dunno man, are you serious? Like, you see them as equally likely to be scum?
Remind me again when Yiley claimed he'd start offering reads and thoughts? (Hint: Day 2)
Then remind me of those reads.
Then tell me how he isn't still posting enough to prod dodge and not replacing out, meaning he seems to think he is in the game somehow...yeah? Then tell me about Antihero.
I look forward to this.

@TSO - I don't really even understand the smargaret case. If it's been presented clearly then it slipped my mind. My presumption is that there isn't much of a case on her, and so I'm not frothing to lynch her because I don't have a case on her. What's your case on her, in a nutshell - so I know what I'm overlooking here.

I'm still okay with lynching Cxin. I'll give him till this evening to manage these reads he's going to post.
Then I'll Mjolnir the heck out of him regardless.

I do want to hear back from Yates and TSO as well.

I'd still be excited for a sudden spin around wagon on Yiley, I'll admit.
But apparently he's a town read or null read for everyone...somehow.

[PeregrineV]

PV needs rope because he's pushing me, but he either hasn't actually read the posts he's citing as evidence of my scumminess (specifically, where I got the townread on Zek) or he's misrepping like heck. And I was pushing cxin before pushing cxin was cool /hipster.

My apologies.

Please quote the post and bold the part where you got the town-read on Zek.

[T S O]

I have to admit. By the mod posting that I now want to lynch some Newbie scrub.

There's a problem with your logic.

[T S O]

I can't find any people playing, apart from maybe Zekrom, who would be incompetent enough to ask for Janitored flips for no reason.

[T S O]

I don't really even understand the smargaret case. If it's been presented clearly then it slipped my mind. My presumption is that there isn't much of a case on her, and so I'm not frothing to lynch her because I don't have a case on her. What's your case on her, in a nutshell - so I know what I'm overlooking here.

Fuck making a case, if you give a shit you'll ISO her.

-Called me scum for showing meta where I'd misread Zekrom
-Hasn't had one anti-wagon stance yet,
-Strong OMGUS reaction on Pere
-Mercilessly buddying you

etc.

[Thor665]

I disagree about the janitor thing.

Let's look at this case...
1. I'll agree that's silly. Why is it scummy as opposed to silly? Even as scum she probably thinks that makes sense as a scum tell.
2. Does she normally have them as town? This is a good point if she does.
3. I personally find OMGUS a playstyle reaction more than a scummy one, but will accept this as a decent support point.
4. I consider that in line with my experience with her - do you know something I don't?

So, really, the way I see it, #1 and #4 to me don't even qualify as reasons to think she's scum.
#2 is a good point, but I have not the meta awareness there to see it as a scumtell.
#3 is a partial case.

Can you back up #2?

[penguin_alien]

Thor, are you town-reading Antihero-Smudger? Because I'm not seeing any particular reason to do so. Yiley's been absent, and I have no problem pressuring him to step up tomorrow, but I actively think Antihero's likely scum.

[Yates]

@Yates - if you can't spot why Yiley would need to be lynched over Antihero...I...I dunno man, are you serious? Like, you see them as equally likely to be scum?

Frankly, I see Antihero as

more likely

to be scum - but that's more a carry over from my Smudger read than anything he has actually done [or more to the point - HASN'T done] since replacing in.

Here's what we've seen from you regarding Yiley:

Vote: Zakk

I'm okay with this for now.
Also game for Yiley to enjoy death.

^^ That's your first mention of Yiley. You don't actually say why you are "game for Yiley to enjoy death," though.

Yeah. Let's lynch Zakk and/or Yiley. I like that vibe.

Again, no rational.

Yeah, but that feels *better* to me than what Yiley did.

What exactly did Yiley do? I guess that's what I'm [we're?] not seeing.

I see an active and involved Yiley who flipped town.
Clearly I'm missing something - what is it?

I guess this is a meta read, then, where you are claiming Yiley is more active and involved as Town? Do you have a scum game to support your theory that he lurks as scum? I realize this was in response to meta PV brought to the table but that seems to be the direction you are going here.

Heck, you even state it yourself here:

I mean, did you even consider whether short, one sentence posts were something he did or didn't do as scum?

@Anyone - did we have a reason we weren't lynching Yiley today?

So I guess the answer to this is yes. Cxi is scummier. That's the reason. Or maybe you're seeing something about Yiley the rest of us aren't seeing. Can you break it down so *I* can understand?

[Thor665]

Thor, are you town-reading Antihero-Smudger? Because I'm not seeing any particular reason to do so. Yiley's been absent, and I have no problem pressuring him to step up tomorrow, but I actively think Antihero's likely scum.

I'm not town reading Antihero particularly, I am responding to Yates suggesting that he sees Antihero as worse than Yiley, which I do not.

@Yates - that is such a giant wall of fluff, and the annoying thing to me is about half of the questions you asked are answered in context if you were doing more than a Ctrl+F for 'Yiley' in my posts so my urge to actually bother answering each of them is pretty massively minor.

[Thor665]

Gawds, you even posted that and failed to recognize some of that was evidence and issue for Pere to be scum, and then are acting like it's a case on Yiley...meh....so not wanting to answer all of that. Go read more.

[Antihero]

@Pere - what's your opinion of the cxin wagon?
@Antihero - same question

Hint: I'm calling you scummy for not even mentioning it.

@Cxin - I have intent to hammer you, please claim.

it would be really satisfying to see him scum flip but objectively, i think it's likely he'll flip town; classic VI behavior and taking heat from questionable people (penny+Bulb+bro)

too easy and too many people going for the low-hanging fruit

[penguin_alien]

Interesting. Antihero, care to expound on my questionableness?

And you sure liked his wagon here:

Also yiley' #588 is town.

No, it's the exact opposite of town, and if you think otherwise, you're scum.

Also yiley' #588 is town.

Explain.

I know how it feels, when you have nothing to post and are willing to address anything towards you. Also notice how I've been doing that for most of the game.

Add that to the idea that user cxinlee has been bandwagoned for not posting content, it'd take guts for scum to openly say that they don't have reads (If I swapped spots and his slot turned out to be scum, I would probably force myself to get reads)

Where in that post does Yiley say that he doesn't have reads?

Now I want to kill jelloman.

Meh, "no reads" isn't the right phrase, more of nothing to say.

Are you trying to kill strawberry for saying yiley is town, or making that mistake?

He didn't say he had "nothing to say" either.

Strike two.

[Yates]

Gawds, you even posted that and failed to recognize some of that was evidence and issue for Pere to be scum, and then are acting like it's a case on Yiley...meh....so not wanting to answer all of that. Go read more.

Why? I'm obviously missing it. How hard is it to make a brief bullet point?

[Yates]

By the way, here's a list of all the people voting Yiley as of the last vote count:

Day 2 vote count 10

Oh wait. That list is comprised of zero names. So I guess it's conceivable [probable?] I'm not the only one missing all of this context.

[Thor665]

Gawds, you even posted that and failed to recognize some of that was evidence and issue for Pere to be scum, and then are acting like it's a case on Yiley...meh....so not wanting to answer all of that. Go read more.

Why? I'm obviously missing it. How hard is it to make a brief bullet point?

How hard is it to read a couple posts before and after the ones you're quoting to make sure you understand what I'm even talking about in them?
And I don't need to make a bullet point because...I literally already described the case for you, I already bullet pointed it, I did a quite brief and functional breakdown of my case. He's a newb, the question was asked,a nd he's not scumhunting - wow, one sentence. The only other bullet point I could make would be a line for line wall o snark talking about how bad you are for not being able to grok what I'm saying in your wall of 'posts taken out of context and almost intentionally misunderstood' - and it would accomplish nothing for me except to make me feel smart and to try to be amusing in calling you not smart - whoop-de-doo, wouldn't that be helpful at this stage?

Conversely, in the universe of "providing bullet points" you failed to do so for Anti-hero...which was the point of why we even started this discussion last I checked. Unless you really expect to get alignment info from me explaining how I think you are misrepping my case on Yiley

So, y'know, the case on Antihero, or a link, or something, that would be swell. A town case or at least a rundown of 'not feeling scum because' case on Yiley would also be appreciated. I do want to understand why you have Antihero as markedly worse.

@Antihero - Well, Pengy hopped on that one before I could...so, please just respond to her, I agree with her angle of attack.

I no longer care about Cxin's reads, I actually suspect people are right about him being scum now.
I do want to get Yates to clarify this Antihero v. Yiley read of his.
I...mostly want to hear TSO's response as well.
I get the feeling that one will just devolve into a debate of gamestyle though at this stage, but I'd like to try to grk where he's coming from regardless.
Antihero is unlikely to be NKed, and I don't think he'll come up with a better answer overnight, so I'm not bothering to wait for his reply.
Maybe not TSO's either...

So mostly I'm waiting on Yates, I do want to hear that one prior to night.
So, as soon as Yates posts and I see it I'll hammer.

[Yates]

How hard is it to read a couple posts before and after the ones you're quoting to make sure you understand what I'm even talking about in them?

I've actually read those posts in context. Have you? Clear as mud. Did you ever stop to think that's why your wagon was getting zero traction?

He's a newb, the question was asked,a nd he's not scumhunting - wow, one sentence.

How hard was that?

So you're finding it scummy for a newb not to be scumhunting? Because, you know, that's pretty weak. Or are you still thinking the scum team is all newbs because of the mod clarification - even though you acknowledge that Zeke could have been the newb that necessitated that odd clarification? Because, you know, that's not likely and could also be something scum-Thor is trying to push in order to distance himself from that team.

Not to jump the gun here but you realize that your "case" on Yiley applies to cxi as well, right? They may as well be the same slot. So you realize a cxi scumflip will look very bad for you, right?

Also, I'm kind pf perturbed that I just got suckered into defending a slot I could very well end up voting for tomorrow if Yiley doesn't step up his game. So thanks for putting me in that situation.

Conversely, in the universe of "providing bullet points" you failed to do so for Anti-hero...which was the point of why we even started this discussion last I checked. Unless you really expect to get alignment info from me explaining how I think you are misrepping my case on Yiley

When did you ask me for a bullet point on Antihero? Post 451? Because my opinion on the slot can actually be gleaned from a simple ISO - where I responded to your question in post 451:

...feels like we ought to get the explanation of this one.

Meh. Juice isn't worth the squeeze with a different player in. Bottom line, Smudger was misrepping like crazy [hence my hint that he did it again]. 409 looks like a

possible

soft defense of Zak. Not sure the motivation behind that.

The other thing that's weird is the way the two of you interact. And we both know you aren't averse to bussing early. So that has me a little concerned about Thor-scum at this point. Not concerned enough that I can build a case but concerned enough that I would expect you to see some night action of SOME kind tonight...

For clarity, Anithero is the new Smudger. See how that read was consolidated and easy to understand?

And in the very next post in my ISO I address some of my other reads pretty clearly.

I'm giving Antihero some time to settle in to the Smudger slot and clean that up. I wasn't super convinced of Smudger-scum, but I didn't like his ego or the weirdness he brought to the game.

I'm reconsidering my vote on Zak/Pere, but purely for selfish reasons. At this point, Pere has seen enough scum-Yates to know what that looks like. So if he's Town, I think he'll be a good ally to have. 80% of my vote on the slot was to figure out Smudge so with him out? Meh. Need a better target.

I guess I could go back to voting smarge. But I find something ethically wrong with voting for someone in the hospital. And I sincerely hope that isn't something someone would BS about. Also, just because she wasn't on the Zek wagon doesn't mean she's wrong about the CXI wagon.

I'm actually Town-reading Bro. I find no fault with either of his votes but have nothing stronger than that feeding my opinion outside of "gut."

CXI is a mess. Wouldn't be a tragedy to lose this slot.

Bulb is an interesting one. He avoided the Zek wagon like crazy while trying to look like he was calling him out ["why aren't you answering my questions?!"]. I *do* want to vote off the wagon...

Yiley is another one that reads weird but needs to post. I'm thinking about letting him live today but really only for the hammer vote. I'm not saying he's Town because of the hammer but if scum, he's at least scared and easily manipulated into selling out his team.

I'm wary of Thor. Nothing more to say about that at this point. But, again, he's not in my day 2 lynch pool.

The only update on the Smudger/Antihero slot is that Antihero hasn't done anything to improve the slot - something I recently stated here. So it remains a weak scum read.

As far as the "misrep" goes; how could I possibly be misrepping you when I'm flat out saying I don't see the case and you refused to address a concern that you easily summed up in a single line in post 722 quoted above?? It doesn't need to be like pulling teeth - and frankly, it

shouldn't

be. There's a time and place for snark - you're misusing it here.

[penguin_alien]

Apologies if I'm repeating points already made here. So Yiley's ISO is darn thin, but:

That is really bad considers hammering for that probably shouldn't cus no one will like but why do I Need to worry about what people think about me. I'm legit gonna hammer him soon.

From a scum perspective, this would have to be theater. Which I'm not sure Yiley has the investment to pull off. I think he might think it's a good idea though.

I'm not a fan of this zakk wagon at all. We should wait for a replacement before trying to lynch that slot. I have no idea how he hasn't been on since the 8th and stuff and is still in this game. That is 9 days he hasn't been on.

Ok Thor I'll tell ya what I think. Pv is prob not scum.

This is the only explicit opinion he provides all game. If cxinlee flips town and Yiley flips scum, I'd seriously reassess PV.

I don't have any completed Mafia games with Yiley. The best I can provide for personal experience is a Mish-Mash Resistance game, which at least has the same teams/hidden identity thing going on. And his style was pretty similar there when part of the uninformed majority. I also can't find any complete scum games. Based on his town ones, he's always brief, but in Mini 1521, he was more interactive. It's a trend I think is consistent in his two completed Newbies (1429,1446) and two completed Micros (291, 294). He had opinions and asked questions. That isn't really happening here.

From seeing cxinlee be lynched D1 in Newbie 1463, I do get the sense that he's easily scum read, but there too I saw more effort to help town even while being run up despite being VT. It's not enough for me to unvote, but I'm thinking about Yiley vs. cxinlee a bit and would lynch Yiley with zero qualms right now.