Left 4 Dead Mafia! (Game Over!)

[Zdenek]

The non list should include either RC or SnK, which ever doesn't get lynched, assuming we lynch town.

Aside from that, Rubicon is a good choice since he isn't reading the thread.

The last one I can't decide now.

[LeMidget]

Also I should probably UNVOTE: Whoever Toogeloo was voting for now, yeah. Seems smart.
Page 40-ish.

[mastin2]

He is saying that he does not find your posts as if they were coming from a town player.

THAT'S MY PROBLEM.

HE

SHOULD

BE!

FTR, mastin's herpaderp about "Well I would be scumreading AP if not for the softclaim" is some shit. Scum motivated shit.

Like hell it is.

Your reads in general are fine. Your claim augments it. Your read on me, however, is objectively terrible. That single factor. Undoes basically most of the good. Objectively bad play from a player who is better, and all that. You're better than this at reading me.

VOTE: Red Coyote.

[Aegor]

OMG. Could this be it? Are you really getting this close to a lynch?

VOTE: RC

[Rubicon]

Here is some ketchup.

pidgey's 1924 was pretty much my response to mastin's read wall. To grab a couple examples:

1. Majiffy
^Scum. I already explained the basics behind it, but basically, Majiffy's posting here is entirely scum-oriented. The best of his posting is "meh", when almost all the rest of it is scun. He puts on a good act, but this is his scumplay.

I don't disagree with this read, but would it even be physically possible to phrase a read less concretely? There are no specifics mentioned. No posts pointed to. Just: It's scum-oriented. It's his scum play. The end.

I wouldn't mind so much if it weren't a pattern.

4. SweatingChessball (DrippingGoofball/Chesskid3 Hydra)
^Also a decent townread. Though they haven't been posting as much as I'd prefer, and their content as of recently has been slightly lackluster, they're still a fairly decent townread, because their thoughts seem to be coming from a town player. Both of them have stances that are easy to see and relate to. Basically, just by extrapolating their posting, you can see that they're town; they've got a clear trajectory that is easily followed, and I can easily understand what gives them their reads.

Does this make any sense to someone else? There's "you can see they're town just by extrapolating their posting" and then there's "you can see they're town if you imagine they'd said a bunch of town things they didn't". Not to mention, she goes out of her way to say she

both

of them have stances that are easy to follow, when as far as I can tell, chesskid has only posted one sentence in the game.

(Also - I read pidgey's "helo?" in 1933 as him being surprised no one was engaging with him on it, and trying to get a response, which makes me feel good/better about him as town.)

[Rubicon]

re: Majiffy ~

FWIW, I think Majiffy is my singular strongest scumread. But I'll be damned if I start another wagon Today.

You've spent a grand total of zero time pushing for my lynch.

What the hell is your read even based off, anyway?

I think you were tunneling a bit on Vezok to try to make a wagon happen. That's not scummy on its own, but a lot of players disagreed with you and tried to explain why they thought there could be town motivation behind vezok's position, and instead of engaging with them to try to work out why they thought so, you kind of brushed them off and/or insulted them. What was your thought process there? Now that vezok is probably town, do your other reads change?

[Rubicon]

re: zombie kills ~

Nom List

Action Dan *or* Sekai, whichever we don't lynch (unless the one we lynch flips scum, in which case choose BBMolla)
Rubicon
Chessball

I *really* like this iteration of the list.
As a bonus it also includes the people kind of meaningless whining about being on the list without doing much else. Which, y'know, seems the definition of good inclusion for names on the list.

(trying not to be annoyed at being on this list and to respond reasonably...)

Reading your posts about this plan, I think you're ignoring the fact that some players are strong D1 and some players are strong in midgame/lategame. Like, that describes DGB to a T. I think it may even be a deliberate strategy she uses to stay alive until she can be useful.

I'm rarely useful in a game until it gets down to mini theme size, at which point I almost always become one of the most active players left. Keeping up with a game that has over 2000 posts in D1? When I have two other games to keep track of? Not happening. Not even

close

to happening.

Have you thought about this aspect of the players you're choosing and do you disagree with ^ this assessment?

[Rubicon]

rc is scum with dopog - that's why he over reacted to PeregrineV's post.

Does that make sense? If he thought it had been passed over, why mention it?

[Rubicon]

Red Coyote is pretty fucking town tbh. If that's the only wagon we can pull together today, ok, but I'm expecting a town flip.

[Aegor]

Expect a town flip while voting him then, at least for the moment.

[Rubicon]

That seems counterintuitive.

[Aegor]

Actually lynching someone should be an intuitively beneficial goal. So vote RC or make a kickass case on someone else or attempt to start another wagon. Please do not do the last one, though.

[Rubicon]

Overall reads, AP, PV, vezok, Bulbazak, Aegor and Pidgey are the town core from my POV.

Mastin is scum. I'm Occam's razoring that one. If a player posts like Mastin posts, they're probably just scum, the end.

Majiffy is probably scum too, want to see how he responds to my question above though.

AtE aside, can see the scum case on sekai. They are not a bad lynch for today. Probably not on a team with mastin though. Them being mastin's top scum read is... something.

I read BBmolla as pretty damn scummy, and would like to know what people think is town about him. Same for Zdenek, whose posting is a LITTLE better lately but still not doing much for me.

dopog might be scum.

DGB hasn't said anything that could be used to read her right now AFAICT. (Can be used later, but not now.) I think she's playing the way she always does.

Gut says Thor is town. I realized a week or two ago he reminded me of someone I play mafia with on another site to a ridiculous level, but that things which are town for that person may not be town for Thor. If that makes sense. So I'm less confident about Thor-town now just because I think he could probably fake a lot of what looked town to me as scum.

(Also, I couldn't help but notice how terrible his selections for the horde kill were. >_>)

[Rubicon]

Actually lynching someone should be an intuitively beneficial goal. So vote RC or make a kickass case on someone else or attempt to start another wagon. Please do not do the last one, though.

I'm on the second biggest wagon at the moment. I don't support the top wagon and I don't think it needs my vote to move forward if people want it to move forward. So that's why it would be counterintuitive for me to vote it.

[BBmolla]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: RC

[Alpazard]

Actually lynching someone should be an intuitively beneficial goal. So vote RC or make a kickass case on someone else or attempt to start another wagon. Please do not do the last one, though.

I'm on the second biggest wagon at the moment. I don't support the top wagon and I don't think it needs my vote to move forward if people want it to move forward. So that's why it would be counterintuitive for me to vote it.

This is gonna be so awkward if we do lynch RC.

[pidgey]

GOD MY FUCKING HEAD

I got a hangover

woooooo,,oooo

Anyway, if RC flips scum ill eat my sock but its still better than nothing in my humblest of opinions, ima reread him right now in this hangover mood.

[pidgey]

Wow rubicon stop reading my mind regarding mastin please.

But yeah i mean why did no one raised an eyebrow there? I mean sure its MASTIN we expect some of that gameplay but that was a little too much. Coupled with saying shit like "im playing scummy on purpose" and the ATE against AP just makes me weary.

Though as I said, not a good D1 lynch.

[pidgey]

Actually yeah doesnt hurt to ask something specific to MASTIN:

"Also a decent townread. Though they haven't been posting as much as I'd prefer, and their content as of recently has been slightly lackluster, they're still a fairly decent townread, because their thoughts seem to be coming from a town player. Both of them have stances that are easy to see and relate to. Basically, just by extrapolating their posting, you can see that they're town; they've got a clear trajectory that is easily followed, and I can easily understand what gives them their reads."

explain this fucking paragraph because honestly.............

[Thor665]

I like the list but maybe take off rubicon for like, sven or mastin.

Take off Rubicon? You're literally the first person to suggest that, I don't like them odds.

FTR, mastin's herpaderp about "Well I would be scumreading AP if not for the softclaim" is some Smurf. Scum motivated Smurf.

Maybe, though it does sound in line with some of the usual herpaderp he does post - he's often about making weird commentary. I dunno, I don't love it either but a lot of the rest of his posting is feeling more like town Mastin to me at this stage.

THOR IS SCUM

I GUARANTEE IT

Meanwhile, let's get this over with.

VOTE: SweatingChessball3

http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?tit ... ng_as_Town
My thoughts.
I'll choose to take this as a scum claim though.

Have you thought about this aspect of the players you're choosing and do you disagree with ^ this assessment?

There's a difference between being better later in the game (most players are...in fact, I don't think I can name a player who isn't...maybe AP in full WIFOM paranoia mode...? Meh) and being feth useless.

You guys are being feth useless.

make sense?

[pidgey]

Why cant we lynch BBMolla i think RC is town

And i think BB is the scummser

pedit: I dunno i like rubicon (and he likes me back )

[pidgey]

Also, UNVOTE: PeregrineV; VOTE: mastin2

this is kinda really shitty though

although mastin might be scum

fuck ma life

[Thor665]

@Pidgey - I'll lie and say I like you if we leave Rubicon on the list. He makes sense there.

Can you try to put the Red Coyote read into words? I see that slot doing nothing and saying less. I'm surprised people have any read on it, much less a town one. Can you point to whatever is twinging your gut?

[RedCoyote]

Also, UNVOTE: PeregrineV; VOTE: mastin2

this is kinda really shitty though

although mastin might be scum

fuck ma life

I explained my mastin scumread a ways back. He's still my number one scumread, Pere was just an acceptable wagon. Since the wagon has collapsed, there is no need for me to have my vote there.

Look, I'm not going to bother spending the ~4 - 5 hours I would deem necessary to form an acceptable, caught-up and independent analysis of the game if I'm going to be lynched. I don't sign up for large games very often due to the fact that I am a slow starter with a sporadic posting style that tends to get lost in the shuffle. The Walking Dead has been brought up, a game where it took me nearly two weeks to become vested in given how large the thread got in such a short period of time. I think Abarat: Days of Magic, Nights of War, the last large theme I signed up for and received a town-aligned role, I had a comparable twelve posts in the first two weeks. Large games are intimidating to me, especially as town, but I will slowly and steadily work through them. For some, that may not be good enough.

I'm rambling. I'm not trying to throw a pity party here, but I just want to address the unspoken sentiment (or maybe it has been spoken) that I'm apathetic about the game. I am not apathetic; I'm just not the type of player that posts every 6 hours. I have every intention on having an independent voice in this game, but I acknowledge that I have been dragging my feet for the last couple of days given that my name has been thrown up as the D1 sacrificial lamb. I'm not sure anyone besides Zde has had strong scum reaction toward my posts so far (in fact, I know at least mastin, AP, and sekai are on record as saying they saw my posts as town), so to see my name as a serious lynch candidate is disappointing.

From where I'm sitting, if I am the eventual lynch, then what I've contributed so far is good enough. As a D1 mislynch, my posts would hold next-to-no value. My wagon would provide much more meat (or brains, if you will) anyway. The strong reads I have are that Aegor and Toog (LeMidget) are super town, and mastin is my number one scumread. If I am not the eventual lynch, then I will become more of a presence over time.

[RedCoyote]

Also, if I may rant a bit, the goalposts have been moved, guys. The memories I have of large games in '09 and '10 games I was in would total between 30 (!) and 84 pages. 84 pages for the entire game. 84 pages over the course of two months. Not 81 pages in two weeks.

I'm not saying this to come across as an old curmudgeon with a "back in my day..." story. I would just want y'all to appreciate that I have not kept up with the meteoric rise in activity expectations that has occurred on MS as well as others may have.