[OLD] Open Setup Ideas and Discussion

[callforjudgement]

I'm not convinced that the game is broken by VCA at all. Flips do make things harder for the scum by making scumhunting easier; however, I don't think that making the game more scumhunting-based is a bad thing, and I don't think town's advantage from flips is enough to unbalance the setup.

[TierShift]

Suggestions?

I originally had 2 cops instead of masons, would that be better?

Adding more townies would work? Some other town roles that make players play awkwardly?

[JasonWazza]

Miller and Cop, that'd make everything awkward.

@CFJ: You may be right, i just think it benefits VCA in a huge way compared to normal games, and that it could have a more negative effect on the game, however that's because i think VCA's suck so that may be my bias talking

[LlamaFluff]

Been playing around with a mountainous with a slight vengeful aspect type game

Shell Game

9x Vanilla Town
2x Mafia Goon

When a player is lynched they submit a name of a player they want to die and chooses if they want it under shell 1, 2 or 3. Scum submits the name of the player they want to kill which goes under remaining shells and pick a shell. The name under the shell chosen is the player who dies at night.

Essentially its mountainous, except about 1/3 chance that the NK is a vengekill instead. May be enough to turn 9:2 into more of an even setup than scum sided.

[JasonWazza]

When a player is lynched they submit a name of a player they want to die and chooses if they want it under shell 1, 2 or 3.

Claim shell number, instant vengekill working.

Also it means scum can't do any actual kills.

[Cheery Dog]

When a player is lynched they submit a name of a player they want to die and chooses if they want it under shell 1, 2 or 3.

Claim shell number, instant vengekill working.

Also it means scum can't do any actual kills.

Why would scum then choose the claimed shell?

[JasonWazza]

Nevermind apparently i read that wrong, ignore me.

[Not_Mafia]

Cop Killer

3 x lone mafia
1 x town cop
some amount of VTs (6-9?), possibly a miller

The cop is exposed at the beginning of the game, however if more than 1 scum faction targets a player they will not die. A variant with 2 people on each scum team is possible but it seems like it would be a bit too big.

Mafia must choose who to kill wisely, considering other scum motive's, also must try and get the cop killed when no one is else is targeting them.

Something would need to be done to deal with cross kills as they could break the game, maybe the scum could have a rock/paper/scissors type relationship. A can kill B but C, B can kill C but not A, C can kill A but not B etc...

In the rare instance that A kills B who kills C who kills A, it could be no death

[BBmolla]

Uh

Are the lone mafias all on the same team?

Otherwise they're basically serial killers and this is barely mafia.

I don't really understand what you're trying to accomplish with this setup.

[Empking]

Cop Killer

3 x lone mafia
1 x town cop
some amount of VTs (6-9?), possibly a miller

The cop is exposed at the beginning of the game, however if more than 1 scum faction targets a player they will not die. A variant with 2 people on each scum team is possible but it seems like it would be a bit too big.

Mafia must choose who to kill wisely, considering other scum motive's, also must try and get the cop killed when no one is else is targeting them.

Something would need to be done to deal with cross kills as they could break the game, maybe the scum could have a rock/paper/scissors type relationship. A can kill B but C, B can kill C but not A, C can kill A but not B etc...

In the rare instance that A kills B who kills C who kills A, it could be no death

Added to what BB said I'd suggest.

2 Team A Goons

2 Team B Goons

1 Known-Cop (Immune to kills if targeted by both teams)
8 VTs or possibly 7 VTs and 1 Spindoctor, to get an additional layer.

[BBmolla]

Spindoctor?

Your setup could work.

[BBmolla]

Don't Be Scummy

9 Players

2 Mafia Goons

1 Cop
1 Miller Cop-Enabler
5 VTs

Could possibly give Miller One-Shot Bulletproof vest but I wanted to try to keep it super simple. In face to face, there are no current open setups utilizing juvenile deliquent(miller) and I think this one would be good. The issue with open setups and juvenile deliquent is that you just claim it day one and you're just a named townie. Here, not the smartest move. Might be a little scumsided on forum?

[Cheery Dog]

Bulletproof would just hane the miller claim d1 anyway - 2 cop investigations (assuming the cop still gets one the night the miller dies) is enough to win if the mafia is forced to kill that way twice. (or otherwise cop hunt, which is never fun if a game depends on it)

If you want out as a micro I've go with what you're got there.

[BBmolla]

Yeah true.

[callforjudgement]

Not sure if claiming day 1 in that setup is the

best

strategy for town, but it seems workable. That effectively translates to an Innocent Child and a 1-shot Cop, which in turn is basically a 7:2 mountainous in which the scum's first two kills are determined by the mod pregame and their third is chosen by town. That's not that far off balanced, but it's rather swingy depending on who gets which roles (because the main benefit of the scum kill direction is to prevent the scum killing the towniest townies).

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

Can't you shoot the cop innocent night 2?

[BBmolla]

Not sure if claiming day 1 in that setup is the

best

strategy for town, but it seems workable. That effectively translates to an Innocent Child and a 1-shot Cop, which in turn is basically a 7:2 mountainous in which the scum's first two kills are determined by the mod pregame and their third is chosen by town. That's not that far off balanced, but it's rather swingy depending on who gets which roles (because the main benefit of the scum kill direction is to prevent the scum killing the towniest townies).

Would making cop 2-shot help balance?

[JasonWazza]

It means the miller is a lot more worthless.

[callforjudgement]

Can't you shoot the cop innocent night 2?

Then the cop stays alive to get another result, and town effectively gets to direct the scum kill for multiple days. Unless scum counterclaim the cop day 2 (which is probably a bad idea), the cop's confirmed town in that situation, and with the miller dead, there's no doubt about the results.

[Cheery Dog]

Can't you shoot the cop innocent night 2?

Then the cop stays alive to get another result, and town effectively gets to direct the scum kill for multiple days. Unless scum counterclaim the cop day 2 (which is probably a bad idea), the cop's confirmed town in that situation, and with the miller dead, there's no doubt about the results.

Only if the cop-enabler miller is still alive.

[callforjudgement]

Ah right. In that case you end up with the town-directed kill and mod-directed kill in a different order, and the setup basically stays the same as it would be otherwise.

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

Okay, more issues with we need a fifth.

Hypothetically, if one town becomes obvious everyone else wants themselves to be lynched.

If BOTH town become obvious town, then you get no lynch because there's no way scum would lynch anyone because then they lose.
Possibly make it so that no lynch is 2 votes, and if no-lynch occurs then both town must kill someone and they must both target scum to win (if they target the same scum it becomes a 2v1 endgame).

Math on this is 5/9 that town is shot and lose, 1/9 that both scum die, and 1/3 that one town dies. The idea is if it happens immediately you just shoot the guys on the no-lynch.

Also, cult we need a fifth.

3 town
1 cult martyr

If town is lynched, martyr does nothing.
If the martyr is lynched, another person is inspired by his sacrifice and becomes cult (martyrs choice).

Oh, wait, that's a 33% chance of town win... ummm. W/E. Somebody else come up with stuff. And I didn't do any numbers on the first one. Uh, yeah.

[BBmolla]

Just use plurality deadline. If there is a tie random.org it.

If two people are obvious town, the game should end according to normal gameplay regardless.

[JasonWazza]

If BOTH town become obvious town, then you get no lynch because there's no way scum would lynch anyone because then they lose.

Or the scum grow a brain and actually put doubt into both the townie's minds.

Why would scum lynch each other when the two town are obvious?

To put doubt into the townies mind in the thought of "Why would scum lynch each other in this situation where two townies are town reading each other?"

[LeMidget]

Third Wheel Mafia

4 pairs of lovers
4 Vanilla
1 "Universal Third Wheel" - can see lover QTs but not post in them (so I guess they're Neighbors too)

2 of the lovers are scum*, 1 Vanilla is scum.

*2 of the 8 lovers. And the scum cannot be paired together.