Left 4 Dead Mafia! (Game Over!)

[Majiffy]

Classic misdirection.

[Aegor]

This will probably be my last post before deadline unless a new, interesting wagon forsm. Wagons I want more than the RC wagon:

SCB
Vezok
mastin
Majiffy
probs Rubicon

[Majiffy]

Still plenty of time to vote Mastin, there, Aegor.

[Zdenek]

Thor, I'm serious too. If you want to have a reasonable discussion about this, start with where RC claimed.

[Aegor]

VOTE: mastin

[Thor665]

Thor, I'm serious too. If you want to have a reasonable discussion about this, start with where RC claimed.

How is that relevant since you made said accusation before I said that?
Someone claimed in fear of my list at an earlier stage in this game day - my recollection says it was RC, if it wasn't him then it was someone else on the list who claimed out of fear of the list. No, I won't go digging to find you the link.

[Majiffy]

Probably a better idea that we *not* discuss what I think we're discussing, Zden. Otherwise that kind of undermines the point of not discussing it.

[Zdenek]

I've looked at RC in Walking Dead Mafia and his post 2785 in that game makes me think that trying to read him based on how he might be coming up with his reads might not work for me. He still might be scum, but I don't have much confidence in my rationale for it now.

Link:http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 0#p5210730

[Zdenek]

Thor, I didn't like that you left RC off the zombie-kill list. You did it in post 1982 acting as through AD was going to be a likely lynch today, which as far as I can tell, he's not, and he is certainly not being aggressively wagoned.

You posting a list from 300 posts ago with RC on the list does not change any of that. What makes your objection even more irrelevant is that that RC wasn't on your list in 1569, the list before the one you quoted.

Why ever you left him off earlier, I don't know, but back then he maybe had my vote on him and wasn't really in danger of being lynched, so me wanting him on the list was rather a vanity thing then. Now though, the situation is different. It's likely that he is going to be lynched, yet you didn't include him in the either or part of your list.

Whether RC claimed is relevant because you tried to defend the fact that you are in fact attacking him by suggesting that he was so afraid of the list that he claimed. Well, we don't need to discuss it, but he hasn't claimed, as far as I can tell.

[SweatingChessball3]

I don't like that Thor was leaving RC off the zombie-kill list. I'm not sure I believe he would defend a buddy so blatantly, and I'm more inclined to think that it's scum trying to gain credibility by not pushing for the death of someone they know is likely to flip town today.
While I look into things,

Unvote

Thor WOULD, and he's scum.

Not so long ago in a game on MTGS he stated that he would absolutely not hammer... his buddy.

[SweatingChessball3]

Since I will die tonight, please promise me one thing.

Avenge me and lynch Thor.

[Zdenek]

I don't like that Thor was leaving RC off the zombie-kill list. I'm not sure I believe he would defend a buddy so blatantly, and I'm more inclined to think that it's scum trying to gain credibility by not pushing for the death of someone they know is likely to flip town today.
While I look into things,

Unvote

Thor WOULD, and he's scum.

Not so long ago in a game on MTGS he stated that he would absolutely not hammer... his buddy.

RC, you should really get in here and say some words about your reads.

[AngryPidgeon]

@AP - what was the Pidgey case? I'm not crazy in recalling it from that one game as his chronic foot in mouth situation, right? Because that's what I recall. It was like 'oh, Cop said he's town...but he says stuff that doesn't add up, must be a GF" right?

Slandaar actually made a meta case on him that involved him being scum for posting too many f-bombs. Which is retarded because that is just a pidgey tell, nothing else. Im not sure why else that happened tbh.

[AngryPidgeon]

I despise all of you. Im voting whoever has the most votes. Mastin should be lynched sooner than later. RC is fine for Today.

Fucking wow the derp this game.

[AngryPidgeon]

GIF is probably scum too. Would lynch over ffery I think.

[AngryPidgeon]

Aegor get back on RC.

Zdenek, I really don't see what you are on about re Thor not putting RC on his vig list. The list has changed pretty dramatically as claims spring up and wagons change. I don't see the exclusion as likely scum motivated even if thor IS scum.

[Zdenek]

AP, then what is your explanation for this?

Nom List

Action Dan *or* Sekai, whichever we don't lynch (unless the one we lynch flips scum, in which case choose BBMolla)
Rubicon
Chessball


I *really* like this iteration of the list.
As a bonus it also includes the people kind of meaningless whining about being on the list without doing much else. Which, y'know, seems the definition of good inclusion for names on the list.

AD has never really been in position to be lynched and at the time RC was more likely to be lynched, I think, than Sekai.

[AngryPidgeon]

Thor is implying that we ar elynching one of Sekai or Dan today and kind of forgets about RC? Thats what it looks like. I find it less likely that Thor purposely is ignoring the RC wagon and more likely that hes just personally more interested in other people.

Not saying this makes him town, but I really don't see explicit scum motivation behind him
a) trying to game the mechanic
b) swapping RC off his list for other people

[RedCoyote]

Alright, Zde, what do you want from me? You're probably cool town, but then again I'm a sucker for anyone that will go against the grain when it's unpopular to do so. To reiterate, some reads you can bank on from me: Aegor and LeMidget are strong townreads of mine, mastin is a strong scumread of mine. Let vez play out, but I'm more inclined to believe him than not.

[Zdenek]

Thor is implying that we ar elynching one of Sekai or Dan today and kind of forgets about RC? Thats what it looks like. I find it less likely that Thor purposely is ignoring the RC wagon and more likely that hes just personally more interested in other people.

Not saying this makes him town, but I really don't see explicit scum motivation behind him
a) trying to game the mechanic
b) swapping RC off his list for other people

I think that if he'd just forgotten about RC he would have just said so rather than pushing the argument that he was attacking RC.

I thought this was because he wanted to make it seem that he wasn't attacking a townsperson who was close to flipping, but after SCB3's post, it could just as well be him protecting a scum-buddy.

[Zdenek]

Alright, Zde, what do you want from me? You're probably cool town, but then again I'm a sucker for anyone that will go against the grain when it's unpopular to do so. To reiterate, some reads you can bank on from me: Aegor and LeMidget are strong townreads of mine, mastin is a strong scumread of mine. Let vez play out, but I'm more inclined to believe him than not.

I was hoping for some rationale behind your ranking of players.

[AngryPidgeon]

@ZDenek: Im not really willing to talk about people unless they are lynchable in the next 24 hours (Thor is not) so if I am alive tomorrow (unlikely) I'll talk to you about him then.

[sekai no ki]

Thor is implying that we ar elynching one of Sekai or Dan today and kind of forgets about RC? Thats what it looks like. I find it less likely that Thor purposely is ignoring the RC wagon and more likely that hes just personally more interested in other people.

Not saying this makes him town, but I really don't see explicit scum motivation behind him
a) trying to game the mechanic
b) swapping RC off his list for other people

I see scum motivation in being more interested in personally directing the night mechanic than in who gets lynched today. It's odd that he's that sloppy about it, though, to not even notice someone he has in the either/or slot isn't at all likely to be the 1st runner up today. I'm not sure what to make of that aspect of it, but if AD is town (and I kinda think he is) then Thor won't look very town come the denoument.

[RedCoyote]

Do you think the Mastin wagon actually holds water?

Yes, absolutely. mastin is my top scumread. I've stated that unequivocally over four times.

people are whining that they're on the death list for not participating...which, really shouldn't come as a shock to them. And the argument "but I'll eventually become useful at some indeterminant point in the future" just begs the question "then why aren't you being useful right now"

"Whining" is relative, then. I'm don't think I'm whining. I'm acknowledging the wagon on me, providing historical evidence of playing in a similar, belated way as town before, and asking the players to consider that evidence in relation to this game.

Like you, you're going to catch up? Really? Then why aren't you caught up now.

To reiterate, I have no inclination to spend several hours analyzing the game to wind up dead at the end of this phase. I do not think the potential benefit is worth the effort. I consider myself to have put more effort into this game overall than at least five other players, and I've given enough content to satisfy my own personal town standards of having a positive influence.

[RedCoyote]

Alright, Zde, what do you want from me? You're probably cool town, but then again I'm a sucker for anyone that will go against the grain when it's unpopular to do so. To reiterate, some reads you can bank on from me: Aegor and LeMidget are strong townreads of mine, mastin is a strong scumread of mine. Let vez play out, but I'm more inclined to believe him than not.

I was hoping for some rationale behind your ranking of players.

Did you have someone specific in mind? I'm not trying to be difficult, but I just wouldn't want to sit here and rehash things I've already said. Like, you look at mastin's 560 or 61, and I see some really big red flags about the language he's using to try and rewrite history or say "RC is scumreading me for the wrong reasons", which is, to me, textbook scum mentality. It implies there are right reasons to scumread him?