Mini 1560 - Reck's Walk of Shame (GAME OVER)

[Aegor]

i.e. I was really tired.

[absta101]

I don't believe you; you specifically replied to my question about your read on Doc and CDB. You remembered saying >50% scum but not voting him?

[absta101]

I think you're trying to fuck with me

[Aegor]

You mentioned statistics explicitly. I did not even go back to my earlier post. Obviously if your response had discussed my vote I would have remembered.

[absta101]

If that's the case then why didn't you remember when quoting Undo in the same quote. He specifically said "your vote on Doc".

None of this matters anyway.

[Aegor]

Yeah, idk what that was all about to be honest.

[xRECKONERx]

Official Vote Count 1.4

Doc Holliday

(4): absta101, ~Jordan`, Aegor, Slandaar

undo

(2): Freak, JKMatthews

JKMatthews

(2): ChannelDelibird, Natirasha

Freak

(1): CooLDoG

Aegor

(1): NicCage

~Jordan`

(1): Doc Holliday

Not Voting

(2): Titus, undo

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

[undo]

Why Freak is scum:

a) He recanted over a random vote

b) He's lurking, and only posts to respond defensively to my accusations (didn't even respond to CooLDoG's vote)

c) His argumentation is weak and rudimentary - he claims he was "trying to build discussion" (over a random contentless comment); counter-accuses me of building contentless discussion (basic "No, you!" argument, no solid reasoning whatsoever). And he's keeping his random-vote on me.

d) He's been around since the beginning, but he's not scumhunting, he has never made a point on other players, nor has he contributed to a helpful discussion. The

only

thing he posted to look like he was participating actively was this question:

What has an oldbie to be culturally shocked about, and how it apples to undo and Jordan game?

A question which, you will notice, has little to do with the actual game and is not a bit helpful for scumhunting.

I have little doubts.

VOTE: Freak

[Titus]

Ok I've read up here.

1) The comment about Nati having her back is a little wierd and reeks of buddying. Why would Nati want me to have her back when I hadn't posted and not yet developed anything to suggest I was someone you wanted anywhere near

2) JKMatthews is off to me, but he usually speaks very briefly if his meta hasn't changed since my first scum game. I don't think we've played together since then.

3) CooLDog doesn't seem to be sheeping the majority but there's a gut thing here... bleh. Post more so I can sort you CooLDog. Leaning scum here due to his comments that everything being posted so far is worthless.

4) I don't see why undo is being voted at the moment.

5) Doc as the major train... again, I don't see why?

6) Slandaar, naked voting... umm what? No.. this ain't Death's Diner Slandaar... meta sucks but hey it's what I got so far.

VOTE: Slandaar

[Titus]

Got ninjaed by undo.

Undo's comments seem to be discrediting the newb, but they all appear to be valid criticisms. I'm going to deliberately avoid interrupting that to see if Freak can model constructive scumhunting questions. Whenever I see something that says, well so and so isn't scumhunting, my alarm bells go off that someone's trying to lynch the newbie.

[absta101]

Why Freak is scum:

a) He recanted over a random vote

b) He's lurking, and only posts to respond defensively to my accusations (didn't even respond to CooLDoG's vote)

c) His argumentation is weak and rudimentary - he claims he was "trying to build discussion" (over a random contentless comment); counter-accuses me of building contentless discussion (basic "No, you!" argument, no solid reasoning whatsoever). And he's keeping his random-vote on me.

d) He's been around since the beginning, but he's not scumhunting, he has never made a point on other players, nor has he contributed to a helpful discussion. The

only

thing he posted to look like he was participating actively was this question:

What has an oldbie to be culturally shocked about, and how it apples to undo and Jordan game?

A question which, you will notice, has little to do with the actual game and is not a bit helpful for scumhunting.

I have little doubts.

VOTE: Freak

What do you think of Nat?

[CooLDoG]

Jordan, posting townreads as well as scumreads is useful because it gives people more opportunities to take concrete stances on each other, which is always a good thing. For me, the difference between scum townreading a buddy and scum simply 'not scumreading' a buddy is large enough that it should not be discouraged. Openness and readability are pro-town.

meh, disagree. Generally this early town reads just create confusion... later d1 they just give scum night kill ideas. Town reads start to gain utility d2, in my opinion. But, this is a topic for mafia discussion.

why are you voting for Nat and not Doc or JK, absta

Nat has had more chances to redeem herself with her posts than JK, yet she still hasn't come up with anything remotely close to scumhunting. Doc's read on CDB isn't as bad as Nat's play.

So more votes on Nat please. We need to speed lynch this shit.

I could potentially be persuaded by this argument. I would like to think that the "worst" vote in the game should get more follow up tat a simple statement of it. The back and forth between nat and doc doesn't really go anywhere, I could see my vote going here. Still want to see a bit more from freak before I move my vote.

@Nat - Obviously when you get back explain why you didn't vote in #32.

I vote when I find it convenient.

I already feel like its 2008 again.

ehh, I don't think not voting for someone you think is scum has ever been a thing. Meh.

@Nat - Obviously when you get back explain why you didn't vote in #32.

I vote when I find it convenient.

I already feel like its 2008 again.

Epic.

more importantly he talks about someone else going through a culture shock... touch of a double standard.

VOTE: Doc

and you are doing the reverse of what you are attacking nat of doing... which happens to be equally bad.

@Nat - I'm starting to like you.

why the shift. Seems unprovoked and with no justification.

I thought doc was okay until he decided to go ape shit under pressure. I'm not really sure what to think about that... three votes is literally next to nothing, and anything that happens this early is, in all likely hood, not going to amount to a lynch. Not sure what to think about it. There is a time and a place to go ballistic, and that is either all the time or l-1 depending on if you are fate-like or normal.

[Natirasha]

Yo cooldog which of us has played like thirty games in the past year again?

[~Jordan`]

and

this

is all you can do???

[~Jordan`]

At this point people who "don't get" the Doc wagon are either not trying or playing dumb.

[Natirasha]

I just don't care about the Holiday wagon.

[Natirasha]

1) The comment about Nati having her back is a little wierd and reeks of buddying. Why would Nati want me to have her back when I hadn't posted and not yet developed anything to suggest I was someone you wanted anywhere near

Titus, haven't you born witness to this routine with me before? A lesser-known aspect of my play is that I filter the town through the lens of another player--usually this ends up being SSK or fferyllt, but that's obviously not the case here. You are the person who I both understand best and I think best understands me in this game, so you get to be the filter! Take that as you wish, but your alignment matters not to this.

meh, disagree. Generally this early town reads just create confusion... later d1 they just give scum night kill ideas. Town reads start to gain utility d2, in my opinion. But, this is a topic for mafia discussion.

The big joke is such comments actually don't matter at all, just the emotions behind them.

[quoteI could potentially be persuaded by this argument. I would like to think that the "worst" vote in the game should get more follow up tat a simple statement of it. The back and forth between nat and doc doesn't really go anywhere, I could see my vote going here. Still want to see a bit more from freak before I move my vote.[/quote]
An admitted flaw in my game is that I actually do have trouble expressing my thoughts well, but it helps in other ways.

ehh, I don't think not voting for someone you think is scum has ever been a thing. Meh.

What purpose does a vote such as that serve? The wagon was not gonna happen regardless. You gotta feel, baby.
------
In short, yes, I am actually doing things and if you can't see that, I'm sorry. 'Scumhunting' as a concept does not simply involve dialogue between individuals.

[Titus]

Ok this filter will help me understand you and your motivation if I can understand your concept. I haven't seen this concept so explicitly from you. If you could provide me an example game and tell me who your filter was, it will help you scumhunt and help me figure out your alignment.

[Freak]

ok undo you want to play walls? Let's play walls.

I will spoiler my reply so people can just go on if they don't care about reading this right now.

Spoiler: Point a

Why Freak is scum:

a) He recanted over a random vote

We're already past this. You made the exact same point in 26, to which I replied in 28. You never really answered to the point I made about it in #28 (except for asking if my strategy was based on "weak reasoning and slight provocations", which is not really an answer to that, or to anything at all really). So, instead of going around in circles, let's pick it up from there.

In #28 I said I agreed with his observation and didn't really see the big deal in writing it in my post. You seem to think otherwise, so I'll ask you: why should I have made a big deal about it? I want a direct answer to this question in your reply.

Spoiler: Point b

b) He's lurking, and only posts to respond defensively to my accusations (didn't even respond to CooLDoG's vote)

I don't think I'll spend much time on this thread until after Saint Patrick. If you give me a reason to talk by questioning me every time I find some time to come here, I will answer to you. I'm cool like that.
Of course, the downside of me being too busy getting shitfaced right now mixed with my extreme patience towards you is that I'm probably not gonna do much else for now.

And what you wanted me to say to CooLDoG by the way? He didn't really reasonate on why he thinks I'm suspicious, he just said

this looks wrong, let's vote Freak and throw Doc in there too while we're at it.

(or at least that's what I got from 46).

I'll wait for more serious posts from him to worry about his votes.

Spoiler: Point c

c) His argumentation is weak and rudimentary - he claims he was "trying to build discussion" (over a random contentless comment); counter-accuses me of building contentless discussion (basic "No, you!" argument, no solid reasoning whatsoever).

I think that "building discussion over random contentless comments" is the reason why RVS even exists (let's not forget all this is about a comment made during RVS on page 1). But then again I've been here a little over a month, I could be wrong. Care to correct me?

On the counter-accusation: you're referring to 67, where people that can read will see that I actually was accusing you of incoherence and not of building contentless discussion.

And he's keeping his random-vote on me.

My vote on you stopped being random on page 2.

Spoiler: Point d

d) He's been around since the beginning, but he's not scumhunting, he has never made a point on other players, nor has he contributed to a helpful discussion. The

only

thing he posted to look like he was participating actively was this question:

What has an oldbie to be culturally shocked about, and how it apples to undo and Jordan game?

A question which, you will notice, has little to do with the actual game and is not a bit helpful for scumhunting.

My question actually has a lot to do with the fact that you are my main scumread right now, since you're trying to push a vote on me based on RVS events on page 5, and are using a general faulty reasoning hidden behind walls of pretentious bullshit about the quality of my arguments to try to convince people.

So you'll understand that if someone says you're town for reasons I really don't understand, I'm interested in hearing them explained (my question by the way was ignored, so I'll just ignore that townread for now).

[~Jordan`]

In short, yes, I am actually doing things and if you can't see that, I'm sorry.

can you tell me one substantive thing you are doing

I just don't care about the Holiday wagon.

what do you care about?

[undo]

ok undo you want to play walls? Let's play walls.

I will spoiler my reply so people can just go on if they don't care about reading this right now.

Spoiler: Point a

Why Freak is scum:

a) He recanted over a random vote

We're already past this. You made the exact same point in 26, to which I replied in 28. You never really answered to the point I made about it in #28 (except for asking if my strategy was based on "weak reasoning and slight provocations", which is not really an answer to that, or to anything at all really). So, instead of going around in circles, let's pick it up from there.

In #28 I said I agreed with his observation and didn't really see the big deal in writing it in my post. You seem to think otherwise, so I'll ask you: why should I have made a big deal about it? I want a direct answer to this question in your reply.

Spoiler: Point b

b) He's lurking, and only posts to respond defensively to my accusations (didn't even respond to CooLDoG's vote)

I don't think I'll spend much time on this thread until after Saint Patrick. If you give me a reason to talk by questioning me every time I find some time to come here, I will answer to you. I'm cool like that.
Of course, the downside of me being too busy getting shitfaced right now mixed with my extreme patience towards you is that I'm probably not gonna do much else for now.

And what you wanted me to say to CooLDoG by the way? He didn't really reasonate on why he thinks I'm suspicious, he just said

this looks wrong, let's vote Freak and throw Doc in there too while we're at it.

(or at least that's what I got from 46).

I'll wait for more serious posts from him to worry about his votes.

Spoiler: Point c

c) His argumentation is weak and rudimentary - he claims he was "trying to build discussion" (over a random contentless comment); counter-accuses me of building contentless discussion (basic "No, you!" argument, no solid reasoning whatsoever).

I think that "building discussion over random contentless comments" is the reason why RVS even exists (let's not forget all this is about a comment made during RVS on page 1). But then again I've been here a little over a month, I could be wrong. Care to correct me?

On the counter-accusation: you're referring to 67, where people that can read will see that I actually was accusing you of incoherence and not of building contentless discussion.

And he's keeping his random-vote on me.

My vote on you stopped being random on page 2.

Spoiler: Point d

d) He's been around since the beginning, but he's not scumhunting, he has never made a point on other players, nor has he contributed to a helpful discussion. The

only

thing he posted to look like he was participating actively was this question:

What has an oldbie to be culturally shocked about, and how it apples to undo and Jordan game?

A question which, you will notice, has little to do with the actual game and is not a bit helpful for scumhunting.

My question actually has a lot to do with the fact that you are my main scumread right now, since you're trying to push a vote on me based on RVS events on page 5, and are using a general faulty reasoning hidden behind walls of pretentious bullshit about the quality of my arguments to try to convince people.

So you'll understand that if someone says you're town for reasons I really don't understand, I'm interested in hearing them explained (my question by the way was ignored, so I'll just ignore that townread for now).

First of all, just cut the "wall" talk. This is a game of discussion and logical analysis. I don't know if you're trying to provoke or what, but if you really think my last post was a wall, you're in for a surprise later on (unless I get people to realise you're scum and lynch you today - saves you the trouble of reading those walls of text you hate so much).

Secondly, I'm not going through point a) again. You've already replied to me, and you were not convincing. I've explained why I think your argumentation is weak in point c).

Thirdly, it's very meaningful that I am currently your "main scumread". When you know who the mafia are, it's easier to place your suspicions on those who attack you.

In the end, this reply of yours just confirms my points b) and c). You never contribute to the discussion with constructive argumentation and insights on other players, you only come to the surface to respond to my accusations - not because you're "patient" and you're "cool like that", as you claim, but because you think it's too risky to be aggressive.

I am always willing to be proved wrong, though. Please provide us with an original analysis of the players and the game, in a way that contributes valuably to our discussion and scumhunting. Besides, I am not the only one asking for this.

What do you think of Nat?

I have no solid reason to suspect Natirasha at the moment. What do you think of Freak?

[Freak]

^ notice how this guy just avoids all real argumentations and just throws a couple of "you're doing this and that because you're scum" and "so this all confirms what I say just because I say it does" around.


undo, I already answered to most of what you say. part of it in the same post you're quoting. and if you're gonna ignore my arguments there's no reason in doing this.

First of all, just cut the "wall" talk. This is a game of discussion and logical analysis.

it's not a matter of lenght, all relatively long posts devoid of real reason to exist for me are just walls of text, and your posts where you just pretend to be analyzing stuff when in reality you're just self-confirming your own arguments fit that description (among a couple others).

there are posts longer than yours that I find useful and not walls at all.

[~Jordan`]

i was told that it might be protown to announce thar freak is one of my stronger townreads

[undo]

Since you have no arguments, you say my posts are devoid of reason. That's OK, I didn't ask you to respond directly to the points I've made. The only thing I expect you to do is this:

Please provide us with an original analysis of the players and the game, in a way that contributes valuably to our discussion and scumhunting.

---

i was told that it might be protown to announce thar freak is one of my stronger townreads

Would you like to elaborate on that?

[NicCage]

Prod dodgin' real quick, will post tonight