The Reckoning III (Math is Hard) Holy crap, perfect town win

[Fate]

wow CDB if you weren't around when we mislynched Axxle then that explains literally everything


LOL people who've never played with Axxle just want to instinctively lynch the fuck out of it then they get it out of their system and can read him, its beautiful

[Fate]

Fate you never answered what game I fooled you as scum in?

because I rarely feel like answering questions like that especially from scum? are you going to go back and read your OWN scumgame or something?

[Ythan]

Okay Waffles, I won't shoot you because secrets.

[Sir Waffles Wafflington]

OH hey guess what?

Folks. Fate is lying.

I've never fooled him as scum. The only time I was scum in any game that had anything to do with Fate was Abarat which I replaced into a couple days AFTER he died.

Gosh it just sucks when you make up experience you don't have.

[Fate]

oh fuck

you

got me

[Fate]

hmmm I guess it was Telo


well




this is awkward


uhhh

<__<

THE WHITE ARMOR IS SO BLINDING SOMETIMES I SEE NOT THE PRINCESSES I SAVE

[Fate]

Telo, Tammy

I mean come on we're splitting hairs here

[Ythan]

lol fate

[Fate]

Let's talk about Abarat though because that was one HELLUVA a game where I, TOWN ELECTED leader had MORE CORRECT READS than ARBITRARY IC REGFAN


but who does the scummy go to?


Bitches

be

hatin'

the

true

gods

[Sir Waffles Wafflington]

Okay Waffles, I won't shoot you because secrets.

I'm not surprised that's your reaction. I was pretty sure it'd just make you 100% guaranteed to shoot us if you could, given the kinds of reasoning you've been using in this thread.

However, I'm just telling you this in advance. If you shoot us tonight and we wind up dead, it will probably be because you shot us, and NOT because we targeted scum. I don't want to frame someone with our deaths.

[Sir Waffles Wafflington]

LOL

We have very different color hair though

I was very confused though. Me and competent at scum don't get put in the same sentence very often at all.

All right Party Time.

[Sir Waffles Wafflington]

if you were to unglue yourself off of your scumread on me where would you look?

Fate and Nuwen (not sure if they work together just because of Fate's buddying). I can't read Reck (although Tammy says this is different from his Red Wedding scum play), but it wouldn't completely shock me if YNGO was scum, since they're almost exclusively focused on self-defence. Maaaaaybe Pie if he's playing really, really well as scum. Axxle and Cheery Dog both just have scummy-looking playstyles that I can't really read, but also a couple of weakly town posts. Eaglekit looks kind of townish, but I guess it's not impossible he could be scum. And UT's engagement with the game looks really town, except he has some weird stances that prevent me from being 100% on him. Everyone else looks town for their play, with the exception of Ythan, who just looks town for role reasons.

[ChannelDelibird]

Reck (although Tammy says this is different from his Red Wedding scum play)

I've been thinking about that game a lot regarding Reck and one of the conclusions to which I have come is that he would almost certainly have to play differently here than in that game because of the respective playerlists.

---

Doing that big old read now. I regret doing it this late but I've started so I'll finish.

[ChannelDelibird]

Ugh. I don't like breaking this up halfway through the game but I'm too tired to do Day 2 as well and I need to write what I have up before I lose my train of thought because of sleep. I've reread Day 1 to look for people I might want to lynch today, and I will be covering Day 2 tomorrow. How that will affect the reads that are here, I'm not sure, but I'm going to use the below as a starting point.

--

For one thing, I now think that Axxle is probably town. I also think Nuwen is looking prrrreettty town. There remain a few things about UT that bother me but I still think he'd be a really strange fit for a buddy for almost anyone so I'm not going there still. But I mainly want to talk about the two main scumreads to come out of this reread; Overlords and Pie.

Spoiler: Overlords

Tammy thinks that Reck's behaviour is unlike Red Wedding Mafia. Hmm. While I agree that it's definitely toned down from that game - I think as a result of the playerlist knowing him better - there are parts of his early game play that remind of me of his scum play there. There are also the following more concrete problems I have:

Triforce brought this up and Reck followed it up with this response but I this feels like a bullshit, after-the-fact explanation to cover a mistake to me.

This is deliriously fence-sitty when I feel like Recktown would have a stronger opinion either way on something like 'do we lynch a claimed survivor on Day 1?'. It's a policy question, and I don't buy that the claimed doc protect made such a difference to his thinking as to create such noncommittal confusion.

Then there's the claim. I dunno. I certainly don't think it makes me lean town on them particularly but I can't make a convincing argument to myself that it makes them scummier. It's plausible-ish (tbh I don't really remember Magua getting constantly lynched on Day 1 as a thing but presumably there's a good chance someone submitted it as nobody else has freaked out) but I am entertaining the thought that a mafia beloved princess might be a nice bonus for a scumteam who were facing a town with two vigs (essentially three, given Ythan). I am also entertaining the thought that the only thing better than a Mafia Day 1 beloved princess in that scenario is an any-day mafia beloved princess. That much is definitely a long shot and I'm not going to treat it as any more than such but if anyone is the sort of player who would make up that kind of role/gambit, Reck would be my nomination. Of more mundane concern is the fact that the BP claim is kind of convenient given the hammerer role (bear in mind that, in designing both of those as town roles, you would have to expect both to end up claiming on day 1 because claiming hammerer is the best town play for that role).

Case for the defence:

This post has a reasonable level of authenticity behind it which supports the notion that Overlords are telling the truth about the town PM stuff.

Spoiler: Pie

People who know Pie well, should I be worried about this post being kinda unhelpful and white-noisey or is this another Axxle case?

There are plenty of other things that I do believe are scummy, however...

The vote on me here is kind of mechanical and lame.

He jumps on a Nuwen point on Triforce with a cloying agreement that I don't find particularly believable. It's pretty opportunistic.

Now he thinks I'm town again and he thinks that there's a good chance that there are scum among those pushing my wagon at this point. But we never see Pie follow this up and look into who's the scum on my wagon.

And here's the worst one for me. That previous link shows that Pie thinks I'm, at the very least, not scummy. But then I point out that ActionDan's scumread on me is terrible - truly terrible, as I have already explained at this point - and he's like "well I see where he's coming from". What? I can't believe I didn't press this at the time. Day ends before Pie can have a chance to rectify his position while Dan is alive so all we have is a genuinely terrible defence of an obviously scummy player.

UNVOTE: Overlords
VOTE: Pie

Day 2 to be reread tomorrow. Could end up moving my vote again but I think the biggest unanswered questions right now are about Pie.

[Cheery Dog]

Fate I'm prob going to vote you but here is a courteousy notice of intent

Just fricken vote someone and/or die already please?

I don't really understand the scumreads on fate? I think he's gone off the deepend and part of me thinks it'd be funny to scumread him to troll hi, but what's he achieving here as scum by pushing waffles instead of reck? Losing credibility? Making himself look like a raving lunatic? I just don't really see it, he seems super INTO this game and it looks like he just uh, wants to be right/listened to after a run of scum games which he hasn't enoyed.

I don't think he needs to try very hard to look like a raving lunatic, I could perhaps have it either alignment and is something I think I'll just attempt to continue ignore. (although having to scroll past the same shit repeatly is annoying)

the multiball stuff was first brought up by me cos my wc implied that it might be multiball, that is what I thought at the time. I still think it is, I am just not sure what that means ergo 2 scum teams or scum team plus sk. the game feels odd.

Which phrase from your win condition may you think it?

Anyway I'm going to treat this as a scum claim because there is nothing in my win condition that can possibly indicate the amount of scum teams.
UNVOTE:
VOTE: Mollie

[Cheery Dog]

and I've double checked with the one in the OP, they're consistent.

[A Simple Math Problem]

Vote Count 2.14

Your New Gay Overlords

(2) Fate, Eleven

Eleven

(0)

Iecerint

(0)

Cheery Dog

(0)

Untrod Tripod

(2) Your New Gay Overlords, pirate mollie

Gammagooey

(0)

InflatablePie

(1) ChannelDelibird

Nuwen

(3)

Gammagooey, InflatablePie, Untrod Tripod

Ythan

(0)

Axxle

(0)

Sir Waffles Wafflington

(2) Axxle, Ythan

eaglekit

(0)

pirate mollie

(2) eaglekit, Cheery Dog

ChannelDelibird

(0)

Fate

(0)

Not Voting

(3) Iecerint, Nuwen, Sir Waffles Wafflington

With 15 alive, it takes 8 to lynch.

Deadline: April 3rd @ 3PM Commune Time

V/LA:

mollie

[Fate]

hey UT you're making Nuwen the largest wagon are you fucking SERIOUS ABOUT YOUR RECK READ OR NOT MY GOD

[Untrod Tripod]

fucking FINE

unvote vote Gay Aliens

I want the hammer Iec needs to get on the damn wagon

[pirate mollie]

Fate I'm prob going to vote you but here is a courteousy notice of intent

Just fricken vote someone and/or die already please?

I don't really understand the scumreads on fate? I think he's gone off the deepend and part of me thinks it'd be funny to scumread him to troll hi, but what's he achieving here as scum by pushing waffles instead of reck? Losing credibility? Making himself look like a raving lunatic? I just don't really see it, he seems super INTO this game and it looks like he just uh, wants to be right/listened to after a run of scum games which he hasn't enoyed.

I don't think he needs to try very hard to look like a raving lunatic, I could perhaps have it either alignment and is something I think I'll just attempt to continue ignore. (although having to scroll past the same shit repeatly is annoying)

the multiball stuff was first brought up by me cos my wc implied that it might be multiball, that is what I thought at the time. I still think it is, I am just not sure what that means ergo 2 scum teams or scum team plus sk. the game feels odd.

Which phrase from your win condition may you think it?

Anyway I'm going to treat this as a scum claim because there is nothing in my win condition that can possibly indicate the amount of scum teams.
UNVOTE:
VOTE: Mollie

lemme go copypasta what it says right now!

worst case lylo only needs 1 town yeah? in what world would this happen in where there was only 1 scumteam and no indies?

I brought the multi-ball thing up before triforce outed. I don't think triforce was the only indie cos of how weird the game is.

@ cdb

I actually brought up rw before tammy did (I only say this cos I wanted to discuss it at the time!) but you went to where exactly I did that with this playerlist he would have to change some things if he were scum (this is what I meant by scum) and while meta shifts usually tend to be gradual the exclusion to this is when a player is faced with a particular challenge. I bet reck has twirled his hair into near baldness by now. what do you think of his give up attitude and fate misreading him and reck feeling old because of it? (reck is totally older than me btw)

I also don't like how he is ignoring me but I am not sure that we have found our forum groove yet.

I will sheep you onto pie tho whom I DO have 1 completed with cos he is going in weird places that don't match up to his standard paranoid self he is lacking in tenacity.

VOTE: pie

[Your New Gay Overlords]

I


I can't even read reck's posts anymore


the scumminess drips together and it just looks like some fucked up ink blot of mafia


Like

my god


here's the play by play for what I could stomach:

"Im bein lazy? yeah well im tired, tired of this shit..."

*realizes subconsciously he's being called out for being lazy and actively switches gears*

"RAWRAWRAWRWRAWR IS THIS WHAT YOU EPOPELE WANT WTF I VOTED FOR A VIABLE WAGON CAUSE GAMMA TOLD ME AND NOT ACTUALLY PUSHING THE READS ITHAT I SAY I BELIEVE IN AND THAT MAKES ME FUCKING SCUM? THERE CAPS ARE YOU HAPPY??!?!?"


*realizes hes being called out for lazy wagonning and not voting his scumreads*


"DIE UT DIE MOTHERFUCKER LETS TANGO"




I've liked your posts as well this game Ythan. Well starting from "this does not bode well, Waffles." I've gotten over that whole death note vigging thing

Using things that happened after-the-fact to retroactively justify a bullshit scum read, FUCK YEAH!

[Your New Gay Overlords]

Triforce brought this up and Reck followed it up with this response but I this feels like a bullshit, after-the-fact explanation to cover a mistake to me.

How is it after the fact when the context stated in that post

was stated way before Triforce even made their original post

?

This is deliriously fence-sitty when I feel like Recktown would have a stronger opinion either way on something like 'do we lynch a claimed survivor on Day 1?'. It's a policy question, and I don't buy that the claimed doc protect made such a difference to his thinking as to create such noncommittal confusion.

Why, as scum, would I have any sort of hesitance about pursuing a lynch on a survivor one way or the other? If we had a vig, they could take them out, and if they were telling the truth about their role, it could greatly benefit town. The "policy" isn't exactly as black and white as you make it out to be... this isn't "should town lynch a known survivor", it's "should town lynch a survivor with a compulsory ability that can help town greatly"?

Then there's the claim. I dunno. I certainly don't think it makes me lean town on them particularly but I can't make a convincing argument to myself that it makes them scummier. It's plausible-ish (tbh I don't really remember Magua getting constantly lynched on Day 1 as a thing but presumably there's a good chance someone submitted it as nobody else has freaked out) but I am entertaining the thought that a mafia beloved princess might be a nice bonus for a scumteam who were facing a town with two vigs (essentially three, given Ythan). I am also entertaining the thought that the only thing better than a Mafia Day 1 beloved princess in that scenario is an any-day mafia beloved princess. That much is definitely a long shot and I'm not going to treat it as any more than such but if anyone is the sort of player who would make up that kind of role/gambit, Reck would be my nomination. Of more mundane concern is the fact that the BP claim is kind of convenient given the hammerer role (bear in mind that, in designing both of those as town roles, you would have to expect both to end up claiming on day 1 because claiming hammerer is the best town play for that role).

I can't really defend myself against setup speculation/design so... okay.


Thank you for taking the time to respond to me, but you bring up TWO points that put me as one of your top two scum candidates, and they're pretty weak points.

[Iecerint]

I'm sorry, I'll catch up on this game tomorrow. D:

[Nuwen]

VOTE: Pie

[Ythan]

This Pie wagon is pretty dumb.