NY 172: Another Large Normal (GAME OVER)

[Zdenek]

Yo.

I have a proposal: larges these days have exploded in length. I am proposing we limit posts per person to be five a day, to see if we can get the shortest recent large game.

This is just...no. No. Stop it.

Mr. Rogers is a cutie pie thus far! (also seemingly town)

VOTE: mastin

Your posts annoy me. Please make them not, thx.

We could lynch this, for instance.

[Zdenek]

how the heck do you have me leaning town when I have barely posted Talah?

Cause she's scum.

how the heck do you have me leaning town when I have barely posted Talah?

Prolly cuz posts like this. I'm townreading you pretty hard right now, Rachy.

Prolly with BioChemist.

Mastin's play continues to be very bleh. Giving garbage reads, and now trying to spoonfeed us what his meta is. That's not going to work - when I have time tonight I'll be looking at Mastin's meta for myself. It does need doing, because of the unorthodox playstyle - but I'm not going to be told by the player himself what his meta is, and essentially that his meta this game corresponds with his meta for town.

And him.

Anx isn't as bad as I thought.

[Plessiez]

projectmatt replaces BBmolla as of this post.

[Zdenek]

I'm scum.

There is no legitimate purpose to this as Town. bjc is either scum or not worth listening to. Obtuse gambits are anti-Town.

Sticking with talah for now, but this deserves a vote later.

*bets on Doc being buddies with Taleh*

I have played with BB a lot and he replaces out due to RL issues not because of alignment.

It drives me nuts when people assume that others have the same knowledge as they do.

People's reaction to my first post has been stupid. Mastin's in particular seems like he just has a problem with just the way that I weighed my words. It's how I post - particularly if I'm making a post with quite a simple and concise point. Indeed, just in general, I don't find Mastin's reads to be very good. The certainty in them is obviously part of his meta, but I do disagree with pretty much all of it. I'm not sure if posting such disagreeable reads is part of his meta! I don't have any particularly strong feelings on his proposal for a limit of posting - but as others do, I guess that's not happening.

Gant complaining about Mastin's reads is rather hilarious considering he apparently doesn't have many of his own.

[Zdenek]

I meant to

Vote: Gant

[Damon_Gant]

"Your joke was anti-town, therefore you're scum". This is scum logic.

That's not scum logic - that's bad logic. Unlike others in this thread, you will not hear me chuck around certainties like "you're scum" - certainly not at this early point of the game. My scumhunting is merely analysing the probability that I feel each person is scum. That anti-town joke upped bjc's percentage chance immediately in my eyes, and the others still have some catching up to do. As long as bjc's percentage is the highest, my vote will remain there - but I am by no means close to certain of course, because certainty at this phase of the game would be idiocy of the highest order.

[quote="In [url=http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 6#p5748186]Damon is ignoring everything that's happened in the game so far to focus on something alignment irrelevant (unless bjc has a habit of claiming scum when he is scum, then it is certainly relevant). He also feels the need to point out how it is still OK to pursue that. On his first post his excuse was that everything else was clouding his vision; now he says there's not much to go on because the game is still at an early stage. Come on, I'm not saying there's plenty of relevant stuff going on, but anything is more relevant than a bad RVS joke.[/quote]

Did I claim there's not much going on? I believe I said that bjc's post was the most anti-town, and for now this is enough without really making a statement about the rest of the game. If I did claim there's not much going on, I apologise, because there are things going on now, if still relatively minor. Now that I'm back at my computer, I have things I wish to analyse, and then maybe I'll get my reads straight in my head.

[Damon_Gant]

Yikes, I hate broken quote tags. That'll teach me to preview my post next time. Anyway, as it was requested of me, bad reads from mastin include:

talah as scum
bjc as town
Doc Holliday as scum
Luca Blight as town (not much to go on here, but I don't like what little there is to go on)
And the downright obvious from my POV, myself as scum

If you want clarification on any particular point here, I'm happy to provide. Unlike mastin (supposedly), my meta does not dictate that I make logically superior reads when I'm scum, and just ask you to trust me as town - or at least I hope not, because that would make me a poor town player.

Also to be noted is that 3 slots - Smudger, Nero Cain, and projectmatt - are yet to make a single contribution to the game.

[Zdenek]

So why did you disagree with Mastin's reads?

[projectmatt]

-cracks knuckles-

Hello to everybody here who I've played with previously. And to those who I've yet to meet - hello. I've taken some brief time off from playing because I was having difficulty keeping my attention span on the game. I should be back and focused now!

My first impressions are:

I think that Mister Rodgers is town. There's opportunistic scum and then there's the kind of town who plays on the offensive, "I want to win so badly!' mode. It seems pretty blatant that Mr. Rodgers is an alternate account who is trying to come off as very confident. In terms of getting him read successfully - it works. I'm pretty sure that he's town, but I don't exactly agree with all of his analysis.

Townread on Zdenek.

Townread on DeasVail.

Tentative townread on bjc.

Tentative townread on RachMarie.

I'm scum.

There is no legitimate purpose to this as Town. bjc is either scum or not worth listening to. Obtuse gambits are anti-Town.

Sticking with talah for now, but this deserves a vote later.

I know most of you are calling out Damon Giant for voting bjc, but this post is actually a

worse

sin. This looks like a way for Doc to essentially give himself wriggle room to vote BJC later in the game. The rest of his play hasn't given me much of an indicator of his alignment, though.

Doc's RVS vote was bad and the vote by Deas was something i would have done too . But his posts afterwards read town to me .

Bjc already looks like he is going to be a lynch bait here .

Talah is bad all over . He has one decent post explaining his decisions otherwise he has been bad all over .

This post also gives me a problem - due to the fact that he seems to also be subtly setting up potential candidates for him to tunnel without actually taking a firm stance. Now, I get that taking a firm stance on page 2 would be pretty ridiculous but I'm not a fan of the "pointing fingers at whoever looks bad" play this post gives off.

A joke usually indicates humor, or can be used to relieve tension. Your opening post did none of that. And if a joke, you forgot to show you are town by self-voting.

It's all of 30 posts. What's there to skim?

Vote: bjc

Would also throw a vote BBMolla's way for scum-placing out.

C'mon man, you're better than that.

I actually read Talah's opening posts as pretty townie, and I'm not exactly prepared to give out a read on Mastin yet. I think future interactions in regards to those two will be very telling but I'm waiting. Right now, I don't have a lot that's concrete - my reads need time to develop. But we'll see.

Vote: BipolarChemist

due to the fact that his read on RachMarie looks forced.

[talah]

I'll be back in about 36 hours (maybe sooner if I can get some quality forum time at work).

Covering off what I recall as some questions raised/comments I thought to make:
- Rach your couple of posts felt genuine, so gut at this stage.
- mastin would be fine defending against a meta argument with meta, however, what I'm saying is that I spotted two triggers for me - a bad-looking opening readslist and an entrance which was something I didn't expect from what I know of her personality. That coupled with a pretty opportunistic vote on me hit me in the face like a sledgehammer.
- I'm going to have to have a think about my multi-scum assumption, but it was a bit ego-related and I can explain better where I'm at with it in a bit.
- Zdenek, from your perspective don't you think it's a reasonable assumption that if a person votes you and says on the very next line that the person attacking you is town, that they're assuming an argument is town vs scum? Couple that with the fact that for a supposed 'reaction vote' on me - I was the player who'd already come under the most scrutiny up to that point. So mastin's happy to townread, say, aptil on the basis of one very shonky post, but needs to reaction-test me when I'm the player who already has the most in-thread content to read from?
- aptil, underwhelmed by your response. Can you tell me what it is that's making you townread bjc on the basis of him saying "I'm scum" please.

Anyway, I don't think there's any reason for the Doc wagon to die, and regardless it's probably a bad idea to lynch mastin Day 1 on the off chance that she's town. So will be keeping an eye on.

UNVOTE: mastin
VOTE: Doc

[Zdenek]

- Zdenek, from your perspective don't you think it's a reasonable assumption that if a person votes you and says on the very next line that the person attacking you is town, that they're assuming an argument is town vs scum?

Yes, but that doesn't need to be the reason that they think you are scum.

Couple that with the fact that for a supposed 'reaction vote' on me - I was the player who'd already come under the most scrutiny up to that point. So mastin's happy to townread, say, aptil on the basis of one very shonky post, but needs to reaction-test me when I'm the player who already has the most in-thread content to read from?

All of this fits with the Mastin I know and I don't think it's alignment related. However, I think you are misrepresenting what actually happened. Mastin read your content, thought it was scummy, voted you and also didn't like your reaction to the vote.

[SnowStorm]

"Your joke was anti-town, therefore you're scum". This is scum logic.

That's not scum logic - that's bad logic. Unlike others in this thread, you will not hear me chuck around certainties like "you're scum" - certainly not at this early point of the game. My scumhunting is merely analysing the probability that I feel each person is scum. That anti-town joke upped bjc's percentage chance immediately in my eyes, and the others still have some catching up to do. As long as bjc's percentage is the highest, my vote will remain there - but I am by no means close to certain of course, because certainty at this phase of the game would be idiocy of the highest order.

So you're knowingly basing your vote on bad logic. Ok. Why/How does bjc's joke improve his chances of being evil?

Damon is ignoring everything that's happened in the game so far to focus on something alignment irrelevant (unless bjc has a habit of claiming scum when he is scum, then it is certainly relevant). He also feels the need to point out how it is still OK to pursue that. On his first post his excuse was that everything else was clouding his vision; now he says there's not much to go on because the game is still at an early stage. Come on, I'm not saying there's plenty of relevant stuff going on, but anything is more relevant than a bad RVS joke.

Did I claim there's not much going on? I believe I said that bjc's post was the most anti-town, and for now this is enough without really making a statement about the rest of the game. If I did claim there's not much going on, I apologise, because there are things going on now, if still relatively minor. Now that I'm back at my computer, I have things I wish to analyse, and then maybe I'll get my reads straight in my head.

Your exact words were "

At this early stage in the game, where there's not the greatest deal to go on,

that is more than enough for you to be a good place for my vote." So it's not that you're blatantly saying there's nothing going on, but it is what you imply. You're elevating an RVS joke to the same level of post-RVS content to justify why it is ok to still be focusing on it.

[Plessiez]

Smudger hasn't posted for over 48 hours and hasn't arranged a V/LA. He has therefore been prodded.

[Damon_Gant]

"Your joke was anti-town, therefore you're scum". This is scum logic.

That's not scum logic - that's bad logic. Unlike others in this thread, you will not hear me chuck around certainties like "you're scum" - certainly not at this early point of the game. My scumhunting is merely analysing the probability that I feel each person is scum. That anti-town joke upped bjc's percentage chance immediately in my eyes, and the others still have some catching up to do. As long as bjc's percentage is the highest, my vote will remain there - but I am by no means close to certain of course, because certainty at this phase of the game would be idiocy of the highest order.

So you're knowingly basing your vote on bad logic. Ok.

Bad logic is anti-town, therefore scum. Good logic is anti-town, therefore increased probability of being scum.

As for the other point you make about RVS vs post-RVS stuff - there is no clear line in the sand between these two as people would like to believe. I play to my win condition from the first post I make - RVS or otherwise. No post is off-limits for analysis.

I will elaborate on my reads of talah, Doc and Luca tomorrow as requested.

[Zdenek]

Bad logic is anti-town, therefore scum. Good logic is anti-town, therefore increased probability of being scum.

I feel like those aren't the words you meant to use.
Also,

So why did you disagree with Mastin's reads?

[ThAdmiral]

"Too early to tell" but you'll vote him anyway?

Should I be holding my vote back?

No, not really. It just read odd because you were like "do I think he's scum or not? unsure" but then you voted him, which indicates you do think he's scum.

Do you actually suspect bjc? If so, why? The only reason I find for your vote on him is that you don't like that he claimed scum.

Yeah, that's pretty much why I'm voting him.

I don't think I'm white-knighting him. I mean I don't have a take on him yet. I do think that the people voting him over claiming scum are somewhat scummy - you for trying to dodge the accusation of taking the bait by making light of it in your post, and Gant for voting him while only saying that he found his post peculiar, plus making out of game excuses.

I don't like that you are accusing me of white-knighting someone you're voting.

Maybe white-knighting isn't the right term. Chainsaw defending?

[BipolarChemist]

C'mon man, you're better than that.

I actually read Talah's opening posts as pretty townie, and I'm not exactly prepared to give out a read on Mastin yet. I think future interactions in regards to those two will be very telling but I'm waiting. Right now, I don't have a lot that's concrete - my reads need time to develop. But we'll see.

Vote: BipolarChemist

due to the fact that his read on RachMarie looks forced.

Nah man, ain't forced. I've read through a few games and played with her. I'm finding her fairly town, yo. Why do you think she's town right now?

[BipolarChemist]

Prolly with BioChemist.

Let's get this straight, I ain't a BioChemist, gross. I am a Chemist. Big difference

Also to be noted is that 3 slots - Smudger, Nero Cain, and projectmatt - are yet to make a single contribution to the game.

I agree with Smudger and Nero, would like to see posts from them, but poking a projectmatt is kinda dumb. He replaced in just about an hour before your post.

[ThAdmiral]

Ok time for some proper analysis.

Mister rogers - good aggressive start to the game to get us out of rvs. town
Talah - I like his 87, and I don't see scum taking on mastin and challenging his meta so blatantly. town
Damon gant - There's something about the way he posts that screams slightly-inexperienced town. Stubbornly going after bjc, questioning zdenek for accusing him of being scum without any explanation. town
Doc holliday - seems ok to me but hasn't done much. Null-leaning-town

Perev - not enough to go on. null
luca blight - not enough to go on. only mentioning the bjc situation looks bad though. still, null.

bjc - the scum claim itself is null (but annoying). The fact that his scum reads are based solely off people who voted him, and the fact that he has only interacted with people who voted him/questioned him looks bad. leaning-scum.
Zdenek - what's it up to now 6 scum reads and no town reads? Bullshit alarm is going off. scum
Anxiety - weak vote on rogers, weak vote on gant. leaning scum
Aptil - weak reads and a questionable read on bjc (as pointed out by talah). Null-leaning-scum

there's more people but I'll look at them later

vote: zdenek

[Zdenek]

I agree with Smudger and Nero, would like to see posts from them, but poking a projectmatt is kinda dumb. He replaced in just about an hour before your post.

Ha ha. You are scum with Gant. That is the most boring interaction imaginable.

[Zdenek]

Zdenek - what's it up to now 6 scum reads and no town reads? Bullshit alarm is going off. scum

I've seen no reason to have given out any town reads yet.

[projectmatt]

C'mon man, you're better than that.

I actually read Talah's opening posts as pretty townie, and I'm not exactly prepared to give out a read on Mastin yet. I think future interactions in regards to those two will be very telling but I'm waiting. Right now, I don't have a lot that's concrete - my reads need time to develop. But we'll see.

Vote: BipolarChemist

due to the fact that his read on RachMarie looks forced.

Nah man, ain't forced. I've read through a few games and played with her. I'm finding her fairly town, yo. Why do you think she's town right now?

Tell me your reasons and I'll tell you mine.

[BipolarChemist]

I agree with Smudger and Nero, would like to see posts from them, but poking a projectmatt is kinda dumb. He replaced in just about an hour before your post.

Ha ha. You are scum with Gant. That is the most boring interaction imaginable.

Aw dang man, ya caught me. Great comment by the way, totally not boring and meaningless. Any specific reason you think I'm scum?

[BipolarChemist]

Tell me your reasons and I'll tell you mine.

She's the only person I even semi know here. I've gone through a few of her games before and I find that either I can't tell her alignment right away or she's super obvi town. I find her the latter.

Now reasons, gimme gimme.

[Zdenek]

I agree with Smudger and Nero, would like to see posts from them, but poking a projectmatt is kinda dumb. He replaced in just about an hour before your post.

Ha ha. You are scum with Gant. That is the most boring interaction imaginable.

Aw dang man, ya caught me. Great comment by the way, totally not boring and meaningless. Any specific reason you think I'm scum?

Yes - trying to undermine mastin, your argument for why Taleh could be town reading Rach.