NY 172: Another Large Normal (GAME OVER)

[pisskop]

vote: YatesBecause 323. Nope, that's a lot of not matching my limited experience with him.

This is the only part you need concern yourself with. The rest is me catching up.

[AngryPidgeon]

Anxiety is pretty town.

UNVOTE: ; VOTE: Talah

[SnowStorm]

Sorry, just prod-dodging.

[AngryPidgeon]

I'm kind of in the boat that Mr. Roger's pressuring was over-done at game start.

VOTE: Mister Rog

This could be scum.

So my question here is why the above fake-claim/joke is okay while mine isn't?

What made you think Admiral disliked your post? His vote on you felt like he was trying to be humorous.

1) What allies did I call for? Was it:

a) Deas and mastin, suggesting if we're all town we might join forces, in the extremely early (as in, I-couldn't-possibly-have-a-read early) response garnering comment I made?
or,
b) The entire roster of people I have previously interacted with in the playerlist?

2) Who were the other allies that I was *also* sheeping?
I'll tell you right now that I've sheeped scumreads before, because I think it's a useful way to find out if there's conviction and validity behind a case, and to see of others join a wagon and why.

3) What case did I react badly to? The case being made about me? Which I know to be bullshit? Do tell me how I was supposed to react in your eyes to a super-early overblown case which was 'ur post ain genuwin son', or if you're referring to something else, please clarify.

You appear to be twisting words to exaggerate the validity of your vote, and I might add that your entrance was pretty much what you appear to be accusing me of, in that you sheep Mister and appear to buddy up to him by implicitly agreeing with everything he's said and adding the 'coalition' statement.

Talah continues to make scummy posts. Seriously look at this post ^. I guarantee you none of that bullshit is going to help Talah scumhunt anybody. All that is is OMGUS with a dash of "You can't PROVE Im scum" and trying to paint Doc as scummy with a pretty bad hypocrisy case. And a ton of smokey questions on top of that to make the post look actually meaningful. Wow. Lynch this.

Vote: talah.
(Rogers is town.)

Please be town this game mastin. You are off to such a good start.

[pisskop]

So Gutread time:

Positive:
Bipolar
Devas
ZD
Luca
snowstorm


Noted:
Peregrine
bjc
Rogers


Negative:
Thadmiral
Talah
Yates
Demongant


I went into skim mode by page 8. too many ppl to track in one go. Ill go back and look at points of interest. Starting with DocHoliday.

[Zdenek]

I saw Zdenek's vote coming from halfway around the map.

Good. Then you know what I am thinking and should be town reading me.

Zdenek, I feel really conflicted about Bipolar's reaction to your fakevig. I completely agreed with your scumread, but considering that the dayvig gambit has become so common that it's often used as a joke, I don't know if I trust his reaction. What are your thoughts?

I think that if he's scum, then he's scum who claimed VT on one day one of a large game and will get busted any way.
I also think that his responses to what I did look legit.

How do you get from giving me examples of things scum could be doing based on bjc being either town or scum to asking me about whether ThAd, doc or damon is scum or not scum?

Because how scum interacts with scum is different than how scum interacts with town. You are trying to contend that all are scum merely because they interacted?

Nope. I contend that a bunch of people reacted poorly to a day one scum claim.

[AngryPidgeon]

People's reaction to my first post has been stupid. Mastin's in particular seems like he just has a problem with just the way that I weighed my words. It's how I post - particularly if I'm making a post with quite a simple and concise point. Indeed, just in general, I don't find Mastin's reads to be very good. The certainty in them is obviously part of his meta, but I do disagree with pretty much all of it. I'm not sure if posting such disagreeable reads is part of his meta! I don't have any particularly strong feelings on his proposal for a limit of posting - but as others do, I guess that's not happening.

I spent quite a while staring at this post cause it felt important. Leaning town I think. Its waffly as fuck, but the train of thought reads genuine. Despite the lack of satisfying conclusion, its still making his opinion plain and its fairly followable.

That said, while talah's scum...
VOTE: Damon Gant.
...My scumread here is much, much stronger.

Mastin, get back on Talah TIA. I'm willing to discuss Gant with you but I reaaally dont think hes scum?

Talah continues to OMGUS literally everything in 108.

Let me address this first: "Hollow, shallow, easily faked and overall just feeling plain empty."

Your words. Can you point out instances of this, or are you happy to simply to cast a huge aspersion on my character without explaining your own thinking?

Lets see, your post to Doc was TERRIBLE. Pointless questions, flinging a case at him offhandedly, and, essentially, OMGUS. You did the same thing with Rogers to a lesser extent and now with mastin. Its scummy and for the love of all that is holy Im not gonna let you push mastin off this one by being ham about it.

[Zdenek]

Why do you think there are at least three people asking you how you jumped to these conclusions?

I like to think they are just being a bit obnoxious and pressuring me a little because it's all pretty obvious stuff.

[Zdenek]

Everything? The timing makes it look orchestrated.

So you think it should have happened faster?

[AngryPidgeon]

how the heck do you have me leaning town when I have barely posted Talah?

Prolly cuz posts like this. I'm townreading you pretty hard right now, Rachy.

Coupled with a mastin policy vote. Wow. This needs to be lynched independent of a Talah flip.

Mastin's play continues to be very bleh. Giving garbage reads, and now trying to spoonfeed us what his meta is. That's not going to work - when I have time tonight I'll be looking at Mastin's meta for myself. It does need doing, because of the unorthodox playstyle - but I'm not going to be told by the player himself what his meta is, and essentially that his meta this game corresponds with his meta for town.

Nobody is allowed to read mastin except me. Not after anything goes. If matin is scum, I'll know by D2 at the latest. If I die tonight, consider that a mastin scum claim as well.

If you are not voting anybody , that makes you scum ?

This is a little defensive. Rogers was saying no one should TOWNREAD you for simply not voting. AFAICT he thinks your a pretty null presence in the thread, which is a good opinion to have. You town?

This is scum logic. Damon is ignoring everything that's happened in the game so far to focus on something alignment irrelevant

Ya, but townies focus on nulltells all the time. Its not scummy, just bad.

That's not scum logic - that's bad logic

Woah, +1

We could lynch this [Chemist], for instance.

Im in for this wagon if it becomes a thing. BPC is pretty along for the ride this game.

[pisskop]

On bjc (and I guess the largely absent aptil):

Bjc already looks like he is going to be a lynch bait here .

This sums up both my feelings on Apt and my urge to ignore bjc's antics. He's uppity here, and I would group him with my scumreads if I had to choose atm.

-On DemonG

Spoiler:

44 starts off his journey. With a omgus on bjc.
70 Not helping. so much snide and defense.

This wasn't addressed to me but

Fuck it. Everything that pours from Demon's fingers is scummy to me.
118
130 He ignores the whole point of the question to tangent on about the difference between bad logic and scum logic. Neither of which he applies (to anyone).

Nope. So much nope with his dancing about.

That's not scum logic - that's bad logic.

Bad logic is anti-town, therefore scum. Good logic is anti-town, therefore increased probability of being scum.

202 is a terrible Luca vote and a Doc gutfeel dressed in logic. Why would he need to dress it up? also, for a player who says this:

Mastin's play continues to be very bleh. Giving garbage reads, and now trying to spoonfeed us what his meta is. That's not going to work - when I have time tonight I'll be looking at Mastin's meta for myself. It does need doing, because of the unorthodox playstyle - but I'm not going to be told by the player himself what his meta is, and essentially that his meta this game corresponds with his meta for town.

And then doesn't meta Luca. My experience with Luca is as a lurker/very unhelpful player until later and additionally there are better fish in the sea to eyeball.

No, he's jiving us.

[AngryPidgeon]

So mastin's happy to townread, say, aptil on the basis of one very shonky post, but needs to reaction-test me when I'm the player who already has the most in-thread content to read from?

This is scum upset at being caught for the wrong reasons.

Anyway, I don't think there's any reason for the Doc wagon to die, and regardless it's probably a bad idea to lynch mastin Day 1 on the off chance that she's town. So will be keeping an eye on.

UNVOTE: mastin
VOTE: Doc

Loooool. Play with the fire and get burned. No backing down from this crapvote on mastin now, scumbutt.

C'mon man, you're better than that.

I actually read Talah's opening posts as pretty townie, and I'm not exactly prepared to give out a read on Mastin yet. I think future interactions in regards to those two will be very telling but I'm waiting. Right now, I don't have a lot that's concrete - my reads need time to develop. But we'll see.

Vote: BipolarChemist

due to the fact that his read on RachMarie looks forced.

Nah man, ain't forced. I've read through a few games and played with her. I'm finding her fairly town, yo. Why do you think she's town right now?

Ok, so why is RachMarie probably town then? (FWIW, RM IS probtown after Chemist flips maf)

I agree with Smudger and Nero, would like to see posts from them, but poking a projectmatt is kinda dumb. He replaced in just about an hour before your post.

Do you plan on doing anything useful this game or are you just gonna keep making excuses for posts?

[AngryPidgeon]

Oh and ThAd is literally voting me for scum-hunting.

Ya that last ThAd post was "huh?" leaning towards eyebrow-raising.

[pisskop]

-On Yates
I think his 'catch up' is crap. I don't want to really sift through it since it appears to be purely reactionary in nature.

-On Rach
5 posts. Not unlike my one game with her.

-On AP
I kneejerked, but I don't want to place a value judgment on him without actual interactions.

-On Thad

Spoiler:

Lemme guess: "reaction testing"?

"Too early to tell" but you'll vote him anyway?

Can you explain why you're white-knighting bjc so much?

Thad has a stick up it. He posts like he should be more aggressive than he is coming off as. He's restrained.

Do I think bjc was literally claiming scum? No, not really.
Do I hate it when people post shit like "I'm scum" and then act all defensive/surprised when people vote them? Yes.
Do I think he's town for his behaviour? Fuck no. I don't get why anyone would think so, he's null at best.

Line one is bad, line two and three are progressively better.

But you're not scumhunting, are you? You're just saying so-and-so is scum, and you're spreading your net wide.

Ill keep this in my pocket for now.

201 the part about Zd I can see coming from an

asshole

experienced player.

In a nutshell, I can see him as town. So I lean him back to null+.

[pisskop]

ebwop: I don't want to sift through Yates without a better understanding of actual producers.

[AngryPidgeon]

lol nah man. Considering I was the first to post after Rach, I think you're mistaking me saying Rach's post seemed uber town with me defending Talah.

You also managed to vote mastin for lolpolicy or something otherwise completely forgettable. Still, Id lynch you independent of Talah flipping scum.

Uhhh, Zd lets not pull bullshit gambits on people. There was nothing town about that reaction, ESPECIALLY the certainty that came with it. No one is that certain about bullshit gambits. Every fucking fake hammer in the game ends up being on scum and they go "LOL IM VT WHATEVER" and then everyone calls them probtown. Fucks sake.

Ok I take back everything I said about zdenek. The fake-vig was golden. bipolar is now basically conf-town, that reaction doesn't look fake at all.

Wow. I expected something more pragmatic from you at least. Thank fuck Yates has the common sense to recognize a nulltell when he sees one.

Rogers v Anxiety is dumb and distracting from people who are actually scum.
PV feels town although his town reads on Talah and admiral need reevaluating.

Your thought progression here makes no sense to me at all.

Actually it makes perfect sense. You are trying to assign scum motivation to people's reaction to the bjc post whilst leaving the -exact- motivation up for interpretation. Is there a distinct -lack- of town motivation in the responses? I don't see any. Its realllly not going to fly to say "Ya these reactions are scum-motivated for whatever reason you want them to be". Justify yourself or get dunked. That vig gambit was pretty damn uninspired as well.

Yup. Not seeing the content I wanted from Pere.

This is town Pere. Im 80% sure. Pere isn't a flash-bang player, give him time. Still probs town though. I wanna say this looks like GoW mafia Peregrine.

I'm not buying the "fake vig". Nor the "town reaction". But I'll have to take a look back to see what exactly irked me about it.

Unf. Talk to me about this. I agree and Im concerned that Yates is the only other person to step up to the plate on this one.

[Zdenek]

ESPECIALLY the certainty that came with it.

What certainty?

Actually it makes perfect sense. You are trying to assign scum motivation to people's reaction to the bjc post whilst leaving the -exact- motivation up for interpretation. Is there a distinct -lack- of town motivation in the responses? I don't see any. Its realllly not going to fly to say "Ya these reactions are scum-motivated for whatever reason you want them to be". Justify yourself or get dunked.

It was page two and I was trying to provoke reactions. I find it hard to imagine that you could think I was doing anything differently.

[Zdenek]

Actually, that last sentence by AP is so fucking stupid I can't imagine that it's coming from town-AP. It's pretty fucking standard reasoning in mafia to express the point of view that someone is scummy for something for different reasons depending on the unknown alignment of another.

[Zdenek]

Unvote
Vote: AP

[AngryPidgeon]

umm Mastin is a he

Incorrect, check the pronoun.

and the asking to see if he could post before the mod confirmed his "death" just feels genuine.

No? That trust in Zdenek being honest feels entirely misplaced and over-the-top nonchalant.

It seems everyone is giving Mastin a pass due to self-meta

A pass? What has mastin does that is explicitly scummy?

Using meta to read mastin is generally a very weak way to read her since shes pretty self aware of her meta.

Yates is so town. <3

Convince me? I've got him down as a big fat null after that one post.

I'm not going to argue with you over your great desire to create naked town reads. Its scumtastic

Its really not.

[AngryPidgeon]

ESPECIALLY the certainty that came with it.

What certainty?

The part where he auto-claims without bothering to figure out at all if you are full of shit. Townies are generally paranoid about that.

Actually it makes perfect sense. You are trying to assign scum motivation to people's reaction to the bjc post whilst leaving the -exact- motivation up for interpretation. Is there a distinct -lack- of town motivation in the responses? I don't see any. Its realllly not going to fly to say "Ya these reactions are scum-motivated for whatever reason you want them to be". Justify yourself or get dunked.

It was page two and I was trying to provoke reactions. I find it hard to imagine that you could think I was doing anything differently.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 7#p5750757
^ Ok, well this is page 10 and you apparently still believe those reads are good because you are arguing them with PV so cut this crap about it being page 2. I think PV's points make sense.

[Zdenek]

The part where he auto-claims without bothering to figure out at all if you are full of shit. Townies are generally paranoid about that.

He's pretty new, so him taking it face-value isn't really that surprising. Personally, I still think that he could be scum, I really hate the sarcasm excuse that he kept using, but having him locked into a claim is okay for me for now.

Ok, well this is page 10 and you apparently still believe those reads are good because you are arguing them with PV so cut this crap about it being page 2. I think PV's points make sense.

I'm arguing with PV about them because he's bringing them up. They are doing little to inform my reads at the moment.

[Zdenek]

but that doesn't mean that I think they are irrelevant.

[AngryPidgeon]

Im caught up.

I have moderate town reads on: Gant, Anxiety, Rogers, peregrine, DV and bjc.
I like mastin's presence in the game so far but need to talk to her more (tentative townread).

Talah, Chemist, and more recently Zdenek, look bad. Zdenek keeps toying with the Talah vote but hopped onto me for agreeing with PV about him which is pretty sketch. Voting me and simultaneously backpedaling on the inherent seriousness of his reads that I brought up makes me pretty willing to lynch that Today

Admiral is a weaker read, for no real reason other than he feels lackluster.

P-edit: I thought you called him obvtown? I need to read that sequence again, there was way to much towncred being thrown at him from too many people.
Do you believe them or not? You clearly at least partially believe those points since you are bothering to argue them with PV.
P-p-edit: Ok. Like The Doc holiday suspicion in particular bugged me. Saying he needs to vote someone later is scum motivated because? Hes panic-bussing bjc? He wants to see who is willing to ML bjc before hopping on? I mean, it -could- be from scum, but I dont see why town couldnt make that post.

[Zdenek]

The day there is a post that town couldn't make I'll eat my hat.