NY 172: Another Large Normal (GAME OVER)

[AngryPidgeon]

No the issue is he's bjc and we cant judge him on that alone.

So you agree with my assessment of the conversation about that post being pointless.

[pisskop]

Nothing standout about ProjectMatt.

Tentative townread on RachMarie.

Do please expound.

This post also gives me a problem - due to the fact that he seems to also be subtly setting up potential candidates for him to tunnel without actually taking a firm stance. Now, I get that taking a firm stance on page 2 would be pretty ridiculous but I'm not a fan of the "pointing fingers at whoever looks bad" play this post gives off.

I don't see that at all. I see a noncontent poster just skimming a thread.

@AP

Yes. I agree bjc claim isn't worth dwelling on.

[AngryPidgeon]

So I should probably give Aptil and Luca an ISO since they are becoming popular scumreads.

[Damon_Gant]

202 is a terrible Luca vote and a Doc gutfeel dressed in logic. Why would he need to dress it up? also, for a player who says this:

Mastin's play continues to be very bleh. Giving garbage reads, and now trying to spoonfeed us what his meta is. That's not going to work - when I have time tonight I'll be looking at Mastin's meta for myself. It does need doing, because of the unorthodox playstyle - but I'm not going to be told by the player himself what his meta is, and essentially that his meta this game corresponds with his meta for town.

And then doesn't meta Luca. My experience with Luca is as a lurker/very unhelpful player until later and additionally there are better fish in the sea to eyeball.

But the answer to why I have metaed mastin and haven't metaed Luca is right there in the post you quoted. Mastin has an unorthodox playstyle and therefore normal scumtells apply less. Luca, I don't exactly know, but based off one meaningful post, does not have such a playstyle. I don't have the time to meta every person in the game to the extent that I looked at mastin's meta. However, if you believe Luca's meta to be important here I will look at it.

Perhaps you believe there are "better fish in the sea to eyeball" - and trust me, I'm eyeballing everyone - but I'm very happy with my vote right now. This is a scummy fish who is hiding away and needs to be dragged out into the open. I will however check on Luca's meta in a few hours and I'll see if I agree with your meta analysis.

And you can dismiss any read you like as a "gutfeel dressed in logic" on Day 1. What a load of nonsense. I gave a reason why I thought the quote I gave from Doc seemed town. Later in the same post I gave a self-admitted gut town read on Mister Rogers. Why would I need to "dress up" one supposed gut read but just admit to another? You're the one who is actually making up logic here, all to give pretend legitimacy to yourself, and even better if you can do it by attacking a town-read on your own slot to give yourself further legitmacy. It certainly doesn't work on me.

[AngryPidgeon]

If you are not voting anybody , that makes you scum ?

Meh. Nothing about aptil is super interesting. His limited content feels lightly townish, but I disliked the above^. Rogers said that townreads on aptil for not voting were silly and aptil feels a little guilty here cause he is responding as if Rogers called him scum there.

Luca hasn't posted even a singular interesting tidbit.

Unless people think voting these players is going to make them magically appear in thread and start vomiting rainbows everywhere, I dont know why they are. Both players are dead null.

[PeregrineV]

Bjc townread

I believe there is more credit to the townreads based on his first post than some people think. Actually consider it.

Scum generally want to avoid attention. This already makes his post quite undesirable for scum, and I think that someone fairly new (as bjc seems to be) would be especially hesitant to do something so potentially controversial. The other scum option is to attract attention, and use it to create early townreads on oneself (e.g. by claiming scum and then making it clear it was a reaction test and 'scumhunting' from it). However, the posts that follow his 'scumclaim' seem to suggest that he isn't trying to look good, but at the same time, the fact that he actually scumhunts from it leads me to conclude that he's genuinely scumhunting while not being showy about it as I feel scum would be.

I just want to point out here that he has succeeded in avoiding attention. He has one vote (mine) and 9000 people townreading him.

[4nxi3ty]

oh lordy this game is making my eyes bleed. It's going to be tough for players to catch up and dig for scum interactions if this keeps up. (imma take a break from posting in this thread til tomorrow night, take some time to actually read shit instead of skimming, and hopefully make some room for some less active players to get involved)

yeah AP, I don't see anything wrong with DV's other reads - yet there's bound to be scum sidling up to my lynch by now - why I want to hear more from him to make sure.

pisskop and roger attacks were fairly reasonable, guts undecided on thad.

[AngryPidgeon]

The Rest:
mastin
Luca
aptil
Snow
Nero

So everyone in the game is a townread except...

Luca (zero content)
aptil (basically zero content)
Nero (zero content)
Snow (mmm, ok)
mastin

Ok?

[PeregrineV]

Anyone else think "scum dayvig" here?

It has been a trend, but not really an issue unless the "dayvigged" person dies.

I put the Chemist response up to not knowing the dayvig mechanics, so technically it looks town. But that's a dumb reason, and the whole thing *could* be orchestrated.

So, my take on the ENTIRE DAYVIG scenario:

Creates a null-read on Zdenek (as in, it does not affect how I read him either way).
Creates a null-read on Chemist (as in, it does not affect how I read him either way).

[Mister Rogers]

OK. Breakdown time.

Right about the time I started questioning Thad about his views on ZD-Chem (soon before that) I had decided that the issue was an asset to us and that scum would try and knock it down. This is why I started questioning Thad about it in such a focused way.

It also occurred to me that daytalk would be the only way in which ZD-Chem interactions could actually be discredited and so I made a post about daytalk to indicate I was aware of it and waited.

Lo and behold, Yates comes out and attempts to knock ZD-Chem down and then even with daytalk.

What I also didn't like was the general statistical approach to do it; neither him or AP actually address the posts involved and they both quote statistics.

The scum motivation involved here would be to remove a strong universal townie from our townpile.

I don't know how well this worked out in reality but in theory it was a way to identify scum in this thread.

I am kind of worn out trying to work this angle and so I thought I would just air it out; I just can't tell anymore if I even have a valid point.

Call it FAIL, call it Yates catching me in BS, it might even be scum wearing me out but I get the feeling its just not working because objectively I don't know that its possible to reliably determine a scum alignment from someone opposing a town view on the interactions.

I believe that Chem is town. He will be in my townpile.

A major portion of my issue with Yates was on this point and his defense on Pere was more than sufficient.

Unvote

Thinking of going right to Talah but I would like for him to start a new day fresh first.

I need to step back and look at everything again.

[PeregrineV]

I cannot ignore this setup.

you HAVE TO BELIEVE scum would claim scum

I'm scum.

I believe, I believe!!

[AngryPidgeon]

It also occurred to me that daytalk would be the only way in which ZD-Chem interactions could actually be discredited

Its not. It could have been a gambit they talked about pregame. It could be that only one is scum. <-- You seem to think either/both of us are shoving a connection case on the two of them which Im not. Using shortcuts like this for townreads will come back to bite you. Yes its plausible they ARE town, but the dayvig is null as hell. Im reminded of Posh Mafia (ny 161) where Mattp fakes a gunsmith guilty on IaI and IaI immediately claimed cop in response. Matt retracted his claim, but IaI's reaction to the gambit was largely considered probtown. Enough so that he went on to basically carry the game for his team. I think its pretty protown to actually encourage people to check their reads to make sure they aren't based on feelgood quickandeasy heuristics/gambits.

Consequently, do you think Admiral's reaction to this is town? Somebody (Yates?) mentioned his initial response looked sarcastic but apparently it was serious. Either way, it felt fake to me.

[PeregrineV]

Ok, so the issue with bjc claiming scum is that all the conversation about it has been pretty fucking pointless.

No the issue is he's bjc and we cant judge him on that alone.

82 is the only post of actual substance on bjc.

And its a towny post.

[post=Why bjc?]Why bjc?[/post]
He claimed scum with his first post. Maybe to distract from that very fact, maybe to assuage his guilt over the fact.
Maybe he's town and he's trying to catch scum.
For everyone assuming he's town trying to catch scum, analyze the total sum of his followup to his scum claim.
Then analyze the total sum of the rest of his play. Explain how it is town.
Use charts, graphs, links, etc. Use his own words and yours.
TIA.

[PeregrineV]

Welcome, and thank you to the replacers.

I dislike the fact that both of you used post-by-post to catch up, but I'll probably get over it.

Right now, AP is looking the townier of the two of you. Seems like you would compare notes in thread while catching up, but that didn't seem to happen until 450.

Quantity v quality

Everyone thinking lurkers should not be lynched, I want to point out that Yates has 6 posts, and town-bjc has 8. I will contend that Yates 6 posts have more content and scumhunting that town-bjc's 8 posts.

If some sort of activity divsion is going to be argued by anyone, then here's an exercise. Assume 5 scum.

Bottom 50%

DeasVail
bjc
SnowStorm
Yates
RachMarie
mastin2
projectmatt
aptil
Luca Blight
Nero Cain

Divide into town/scum/null. Why?

Posting

Mister Rogers
Zdenek
talah
PeregrineV
AngryPidgeon
BipolarChemist
ThAdmiral
pisskop
4nxi3ty
Damon_Gant

All of these players have been available and responding. If you have a scumread on them, give the post that states your case for why they are scum.

Go!

[Mister Rogers]

Consequently, do you think Admiral's reaction to this is town? Somebody (Yates?) mentioned his initial response looked sarcastic but apparently it was serious. Either way, it felt fake to me.

My judgement on this is clouded. The only thing I noticed was that he started out 100% strong on it but then came out saying it was all gut. This is contradictory as DV has pointed out. I held back on posting about it because I was attempting to scum hunt the issue.

If you ISO him you can see the two posts.

Gosh I feel like such a schlub saying that it sounds like someone trying to grab town cred but thinking better of it.

[pisskop]

-On Yates
I checked 5 completed games thus far. 3 recent town games and 2 scum.

I still hate your posting this game.
I still hate your bulleting the wall

A notable aspect of your scumgame is presenting fewer points with more omgus reactions.

I figure you bulleting a wallpost could be used for organization, but then so could responding in multiple posts or with smaller posts.
Maybe you combined your posts to hide things. That's something Im suspicious of no matter who does it.

Spoiler:

217,
6) Noted is noted.
10) Agree
Last two lines: noted

[with about 50% players that have some to great meta Yates knowledge] the same?

:IGMOU:
Also explains the posting style. btw it reminds me more of your scummystyle than your towny style.

A VT claim DOESN'T mean that the person is auto magically vanilla OR town.You seem to be assuming this.Assuming this is bad.That's the point.

That's not what he said. ZD gave a list of restriction that resulted from his VT claim. Now, I didn't think it was his towniest moment, but
You jumped over that and started spewing about how it doesn't make them either alignment. <<< This is your scumgame as I understand it.

If it happened over the course of a day or two it would look less contrived. This is a minor point in a big picture gut read.

This is better, even if I disagree with it.

Probably the fact you immediately dropped your pursuit after a VT claim.

Holding onto this.

But on the whole, I don't see why ZD turning away from BP is that terrible. I myself would niggling doubts, but I an see that given BP dropping off the map after would not give said doubt time to resurface. If anything Im more concerned about BP than ZD.

I guess I an see why he would adopt such a style, but I don't like it and I don't know quite what to think of him . . .
Especially given the difficulty I in separating his scum and town games to begin with.

unvote

[Damon_Gant]

Checked Luca's meta - Luca pretty much doesn't have a meta, with as far as I could see, only 1 finished game to speak of. None of Luca's posts from that one game read as scummy as the one post Luca has here. I reiterate - I'm happy with my vote.

[pisskop]

My issue is that there might be present vigs, and you are a liar. Or maybe you are scumvig. Or you got blocked somehow. Or wifom of various colors.
I presume that whomever you give the gun to will verify your status if you still live?

And no, Farside can still be scum. Im not unvoting her over a stale meta. But it is noted that Kush is really stepping up for her. That may be town motivation right there. Im all waffly now.

[pisskop]

Oh my.

@mod: can you erase my post. wrong game.

:[

[mastin2]

Awkwardly enough, my V/LA is lessened to on-guard rather than immediate-emergency due to a very bad line of communication starting from someone who is prone to overreacting and panicking rather than from an actual trained medical professional, which thanks to third-hand communication, I was not aware of. Sooooooo, not true V/LA but possible V/LA.

@Mastin- your posts look like scum-Mastin.

Wut.

Normally [dayvig gambits] read contrived to me but I like this one.

^That. I really liked both players involved.

I don't feel you can adequately assign alignments to reactions-to-bjc without assigning a bjc alignment (without MSU).

You

can

, but it's more effective if you have a read on bjc. I do; town.

I might read Doc's post later. I'm a bit concerned that the first read I actually agree with is PV and the following Doc read. (I also agree with the DV townread.) I agree with the bjc townread, but that's a lot of words for ThAd to only be null and not town, and I'll need to read to see why talah's strong town, since I really don't get that one.

Which continues into the next. I don't understand the 4nx read. I don't see why Damon's just null and not scum. I also don't get the leaning scumread on me. Basically, the only reads I agree with are Zdenek, Snow, Chem, Yates (and he's a stronger-than-nulltown read), and Matt (same). And he takes back the Yates read the very next post. And the PV one, too[/ur;]. It's deeply, deeply concerning to me, considering that I was synching up fairly well overall with him earlier in the game.

HOW WELL

DO

YOU KNOW MASTIN TALAH?

Well enough to know what my preferred pronoun is.

(Also, happy scumday, matt.)

Very bad entrance; very good entrance.

Mastin where are you.

Tired, exhausted, and going to leave the other six pages for later today, after I've rested my mind a bit. Actually, make that six and a half. I'll continue reading from that post.

[talah]

Can we just wagon someone please? At this stage I don't even care if it's me.

@Mister - don't dream it, do it.

@Everyone else who's not voting or thinks #unvote is a cool thing the kids are doing these days - take a fricking position will you? Use your vote for *something*


I've never been so lost in a game of Mafia.

Ed: wb mastin

[pisskop]

Ok, so the issue with bjc claiming scum is that all the conversation about it has been pretty fucking pointless.

No the issue is he's bjc and we cant judge him on that alone.

82 is the only post of actual substance on bjc.

And its a towny post.

[post=Why bjc?]Why bjc?[/post]
He claimed scum with his first post. Maybe to distract from that very fact, maybe to assuage his guilt over the fact.
Maybe he's town and he's trying to catch scum.
For everyone assuming he's town trying to catch scum, analyze the total sum of his followup to his scum claim.
Then analyze the total sum of the rest of his play. Explain how it is town.
Use charts, graphs, links, etc. Use his own words and yours.
TIA.

What is scummy about it? Im not going to defend him but you need to do the work if you want to make a lynch on him happen. Im not doing it until I think he is scum. His early game play seems to lean anti-town, imo. So nope.

[Mister Rogers]

If some sort of activity divsion is going to be argued by anyone, then here's an exercise. Assume 5 scum.

Bottom 50%

DeasVail

-- I contend that as Yates, DV has the content and is posting. Town. Well thought out & transparent reads. Meh. So many lurkers Aptil is scummy and I'm feeling his pain on hesitating with Thad...

bjc

-- prod dodging lurker scum that got off to a good start. Null-scum.

SnowStorm

-- Well thought out reads; reservations on limited scope & lack of posting. With PK on this, not a good D1 lynch but needs to man up & post full scope or there is going to be trouble. Leaning town with above stated reservations.

Yates

-- Give the man some room he's working here. Null awaiting results.

RachMarie

-- scum IOA, bad vote Pere and dangit if she isn't lurking up a storm. Willing to hold the townread questioning as posturing.

mastin2

-- scum very bad entry reads, bad vote switch backpedal. So sad r/l tho.

projectmatt

-- Town off to a good start but not voting not as good as Snow but benefit of the doubt as with Snow.

aptil

-- scummy prod dodging no voting finger pointing scum

Luca Blight

-- scummy active lurking fencesitting posturing bandwagoning naked voting scum

Nero Cain

-- meh who knows triple lurking (V/LA?) null??

Divide into town/scum/null. Why?

Posting

Mister Rogers

-- Someone give this man a hand up not a hand out, he's confused.

Zdenek

-- rational, scum hunting as with Talah, need to know reads.

talah

-- mostly commentary, mostly commentary on self, focusing on townreads, mentions multiball alot, advised me to vote a lurker, not adding up to town

PeregrineV

-- astonishingly good entrance vote, promises good read content, doesn't belong in the "active posting category" needs to deliver null to town for that entrance and depth of promise -- wait a minute he is still pushing BJC WTH!? Dewd get real? Need to see real or willing to wagon.

AngryPidgeon

-- clarity of catchup (yummy with ketchup?), seems helpful, seems dangerous if scum, prob town, watching reads and actions carefully

BipolarChemist

-- genuine sounding posting, genuine looking reaction to a vig that he appeared to believe, lurking the living crap out of this game just as gleefully, far better targets but unlike Thad I truly am an unwavering sucker for THIS fake dayvig.

ThAdmiral

-- Found it safe to vote for BJC with frustration? Probably genuine because of WK accusation of ZD? Cog-dis over ZD-Chem starting off certain but then being certain its all gut; is this an experienced player re-thinking how people will be viewing him? Don't think he has been posting much? No great scum hunting effort. Something is wrong with this picture somehow. null-scum.

pisskop

-- transparent catchup (not yummy with ketchup ). Def willing to follow along eclipses Doc bad start. Town.

4nxi3ty

-- very low contribution levels. Caught Luca active lurking. Wishy washy with voting. Left off voting DG (popular on, not popular off?) not sure if genuine could be low profile scum. Too cautious. prob scum.

Damon_Gant

-- bad start. rusty. the benefit of the doubt train is hitting its final stop. Needs to post alot. Now. null scum.

All of these players have been available and responding. If you have a scumread on them, give the post that states your case for why they are scum.

Go!

Dang anything to clear my head right now.

Let me stare at this post for awhile and cast a vote.

[AngryPidgeon]

Checked Luca's meta - Luca pretty much doesn't have a meta, with as far as I could see, only 1 finished game to speak of. None of Luca's posts from that one game read as scummy as the one post Luca has here. I reiterate - I'm happy with my vote.

What on earth. How are you going to apply a metaread to somebody who has posted a grand total of 3 sentences, one of which was a proddodge?

[AngryPidgeon]

Unless you actually expect zero content to be an actual tell for him one way or another which would be blacklist worthy behavior if actually the case.