In post 3381, Skullduggery wrote: In post 3369, mastin2 wrote:As an aside: zMuffinman and Venmar really look like scumbuddies. Their whole interaction. Their whole way of going about things. How they're treating each other. And even how they treat others treating the other. All looks like scumbuddies.
Can you pull up some examples of this when you get a minute?
In post 3382, zMuffinMan wrote:on phone atm so not gonna do lengthy response but @mastin give me examples of the town stances you think mollie has taken this game
Why does everyone keep asking me to give examples? They know it's my weakness as a player. ;_;
Like, I guess I can try, but largely, this is probably the kind of thing you either see or don't see, and me pointing it out won't change whether you agree with it or not. I guess I could attempt to explain why, but I can guarantee you right here and now that'll fail, and my attempt to do so will take too much time anyway, assuming I even finished because that type of work kinda drains my energy fast.
In post 3385, zMuffinMan wrote:ok, so i'll spell out the mafia tracker thing in very simple terms [blah blah].
While that's all nice and good, the tracker claim wasn't the only instance I was talking about. I'm pretty dang certain there's more. I've thought of them previously, but for whatever reason, didn't post them in-thread and have since forgotten them, but I know I've had similar issues with other things, akin to the tracker knowledge.
Oh. Now I remember one. There may be others, but you've also pushed the idea of two scum. If there actually were two scum, that'd look hella-bad for you. There may be others aside from that, too, but you get the idea. I'm concerned that your insight is too sharp, especially given the overall dullness feeling to your posting overall.
i'm pretty sure i was _the_ most vocal player in pushing the mafiassk lynch, i was also arguably _the_ most vocal player in pushing the aegor lynch through (coz, hey, go figure, it was after like a 2-page exchange with me that he got fed up and self-voted - and while it may not have been entirely because of me, i wasn't exactly "just there" when it happened).
I'll give a look at SSK, but pushing Aegor is no towntell.
D5 and D6? i've been making my opinions pretty fucking clear and i've been vocal about it.
Yet I don't feel the magic of a town-zMuff as much as I feel like I should be.
my stances don't make sense? which ones? coz i've made most of my thoughts on things pretty transparent and i literally don't know which stances you are referring to here.
All of them? Molliescum, Venmartown, basically, everything you've pushed recently has felt...off.
same with my posting not being solid. like, i've made cases, i've argued against cases, i've pushed my thoughts, i've repsonded to people, i don't really know what you're expecting in terms of "solid" posting or why you think my posts haven't been solid
They don't feel like you've put your heart into them? Like, I know you've pushed them. But they seem more reactive than they do proactive. As if you're playing Black rather than White, someone who's of course making moves, aggressive moves, but not playing the offensive long-term game that White would.
(and elaboration on venmar since you still haven't done the analysis you promised, but whatever)
Venmar's basically my number one choice for scum because, well...his mindset simply doesn't seem town from what I've seen, and his interactions with scum (and scum's [lack of] interaction with him) seem terrible. Like...there are elements which look town, especially town at the time. But which when looked at in hindsight, are far more null overall, and perhaps scum. His excessive tunneling on players, for instance, is a convenient way for him to have dodged giving content on other players, and gives him an excuse to stay off of scum wagons. (Which he did.)
Furthermore, other than his initial aggression against the neighbors (and maybe pie--I need to check on pie's stance on Venmar), his play has largely been reactive. He's been tunneling on players, but has put very little effort and energy into actually lynching players. He made a weak case against Metal Sonic, but had basically none against pieguy, and has had essentially no attempt to persuade others to his reads. Like, tunneling can come from town, but when it does, it often has effort attached to making players follow the tunneler. Venmar's got plenty of "Or we could lynch Metal Sonic" posts in there, but I only recall maybe one or two "WHY we should lynch Metal Sonic" posts, which weren't very strong, never followed-through on, and are quite weak overall.
All-in-all? His pushes don't feel genuine. Especially after MS flipped town. That "sorry guiz" attitude, in particular, felt entirely fake. His posting since then has continued the trend. His reads now are OMGUSy in nature, with literally his only two suspects being the players calling him scum. His posting continues to be reactionary, though, because while he calls us scum, he's not provided strong reasoning for it. We're scum 'cuz we are, not because of anything resembling reasoning.
His reads have no strength. There's also an extreme lack of trajectory in his reads. (Don't kill me, ffery.) There's almost no evolution, no change, no shift in them. Static, stale, stagnant reads that he kept throughout the game. It's not the town him that I remember seeing at all. I remember there being elements of this in his posting as town, but never all present at the same time, and even when present, only being a piece of the whole. As town, he gave so much more than what he's given this game, and I know he's capable of doing far more than what he's done.
And bluntly, mollie's been basically the opposite. I haven't done my research, but bluntly, the only thing in her posting that even so much as remotely resembles her scumplay was her early-game lurking, and even that wasn't as bad as I'd expect, with her having been much more active overall. Her reads I remember being better, and I've seen no issue with scum's interactions with her. (Granted, I don't particularly remember many mollie interactions, but those that I do remember point to town.)
But even if not. Even if not for those factors, mollie's posting has been strongly proactive. Yes, there are reactive elements, especially in regards to others' reads on her not being positive, but in her case, that's actually a good sign, because she was justified in being worried from what she knows of us as players...and unlike Venmar or you who've mostly just left that in place, she's been following through on it and trying to sort things out. She's been bridging the gaps. She's done those reach-outs. She's analyzed. She's not been manipulating; she's not been trying to survive. She's been trying to understand. Like, there's a lot more I could say, but basically...there's essentially zero about her that's scum. She's the strongest non-conftown townread I have.
And you ignoring that is yet another reason I'm concerned about
, because a town-you I far more remember respecting my opinion, whereas a scum-you I quite remember discarding it.
In post 3390, Skullduggery wrote:I have a smashing idea: let's not lynch Pidgey today. I just looked through Brian's and Gooner's ISOs and found them both to be painfully Town. I went out of my way to try to find incriminating scummy shit and came away empty-handed.
This is also why pidgey's my second-strongest not-conftown read.
Bluntly. I know this sounds arrogant. I know this sounds stupid. But I legitimately.
Seriously.
Feel like I'm one of the only town players who has their brain not turned off right now. That I've actually put serious thought and effort into figuring out who could be scum. My evidence isn't backed by extensive research. But I've been thinking.
I can't see pidgey's slot as scum; all three have been town in their own ways, without a hint of scum.
I can't see mollie's slot as scum.
I guess Skull being scum is theoretically possible, but I don't think so.
Also, side-note, but I read the first ten or so pages of the game a while back, and seeing things in their full content mode solidified a fair amount of these feelings. That Brian Skies is town (and thus, pidgey as a result), that Venmar is one of the more likely scum candidates, that zMuffinman is another. I didn't go much further, but really. I honestly don't feel like I should have to.
This is something where I really, really feel like saying, "Just...trust me."
