Marvel Avengers Alliance - Game over

[CrashTextDummie]

Also, Thor, CTD, can you both try being more succinct? My eyes are seriously glazing over at the wall-wars.

I was gonna do another Thor wall, but then I remembered you posted this. <3

[Thor665]

I started with the newest finished game and worked my way down. I discarded games where Thor was scum, games with weird mechanics, multiscum games.

The game you noted stuff from was...really far down the list.

The vast majority of players uses associative tells

[improperly]

at least to some extent. I couldn't name one off hand that doesn't. The fact that Thor doesn't is baffling to me, but I'm willing to accept it as a character quirk.

Fixed that for you.
I use them too - I'm just not asinine enough to decide that one of my reads is so blindingly brilliant so as to affect my other reads prior to a flip. I clearly have it affecting it a bit, but I am able to objectively look at Smarg and admit she's not a blinding wall of town, and I am aware I could be wrong on Pere despite my belief, at the time, that I was not.

Congratulations - you have proven that I'm scumhunting properly.

I'm still trying to figure out how this not only blows your mind, but blows it enough to read as many games as you have, and also, with having read that many and finding nothing at all, how your read on me hasn't shifted when that is the current core of your case outside of "disagree with Thor's suspects" which...also isn't a scumtell.

What's going on in there scumboi?

[PeregrineV]

I'll try to catch up some tomorrow, but out of town for the weekend.

@Mod- V/LA March 28-30.

[smargaret]

@smarg

- Do you feel your answers so far have adequately addressed 884 and 885, as to the specifics of those questions?

Yeah, I do. The townread on Zek wasn't so much anything he posted as it was when (in the context of everything else being posted early in the game) he posted it. The questions were to try and GET reads in the first place on the other players (because no, I didn't have to assume thor/bulba/porkens town to get zek town, and if you'd actually read the dang post that I keep quoting and quoting and quoting, you'd see that).

Bulba is town. Scum is probably antihero/PV; CTD looks like (wrong) town, even if that unvote was weird and scummy. Thor is town, but I'm less confident of this than I am in my Bulba read.

[Bulbazak]

It's not nitpicky to question the fact that you have no real read on Smargaret other than gut at this point in the game. Please address this.

I think it's because I've gotten to the point where I have a lot of other things on my plate then generally one particular mafia game. As such, my play has evolved from the super engaged and precise style of my earlier games to a more detached and reactive style. I've had several games where I didn't have a clue as I moved forward and relied more on impressions than general reasoning, although for the most part I rely on a mix of the two. In this case, I have reasoning for my strongest reads, but for some, like Smargaret, it's more of an impression I've gotten while going through the game, and I can't honestly tell you why. I wish I could, but I can't. There's something telling me she's likely to be town, and I can't figure out for the life of me what it is, and seeing as how I have several stronger scumspects, that's good enough for me. I won't be voting her, but I won't say that I'll cry if she gets lynched.

- My issue with Thor and my issue with you with regards to consistency of reads are not the same. If you feel that I have treated you differently, please be more specific and provide quotes.

I feel as if you've treated Thor and I exactly the same in regards to the way you set up cases.

And you really think challenging his reads, antagonizing him and generally causing a ruckus is the way I as scum would react to that, as opposed to say push a mislynch (Smargaret or Pere) and nightkilling him?

As I said, the stage has been set for a Thor lynch. I don't see why you as scum wouldn't capitalize on that, especially if you could paint his actions as coming from a scum motivation.

-

The only thing that bothers me about that quote is that he utterly ignores your pushing for a quicklynch to end the day early. That was what sent up red flags for me. The fact that he goes "Oh yeah, there was absolutely nothing in your interaction with Zek that would suggest partners." bugs me.

I don't think quicklynches are inherently bad for the town and I don't think people pushing for quicklynches are inherently scummy.

Pushing it at that point in time, when we had absolutely zero information, and where it would be impossible to look for associations

is

scummy. It's the same kind of reasoning that scum will self hammer to prevent town from gaining more information on the team.

On what earth was I trying to buddy Thor?

Are you trying to tell me that your "Hey Thor, you're on the wrong track! Come join me on the side of justice!" is not any sort of buddying?

[CrashTextDummie]

The game you noted stuff from was...really far down the list.

Newbie 1481, Open 465, Open 463. 3rd game down the list. Are you going anywhere with this?

You have recently started accusing me of lying in situations where the alleged lie serves no purpose at all or is easily debunked.

"CTD is lying about reading my games." Disproven. "CTD is lying about not having read my wall." To what end? "CTD is lying about why he picked the games he read." It's evident that I have read those games, so again why would I have to come up with a lie about my method of choosing?

I'm still trying to figure out how this not only blows your mind, but blows it enough to read as many games as you have, and also, with having read that many and finding nothing at all, how your read on me hasn't shifted when that is the current core of your case outside of "disagree with Thor's suspects" which...also isn't a scumtell.

I still think your reasons to suspect Yiley are a fabrication. If I actually bothered to make a case, there would be more. Hypocrisy for example. Ask, don't presume, remember?

I'll have some questions for you in a bit. In the mean time, I'd appreciate it if you could summarize your case against me as it currently stands. With all this back and forth, it's not clear to me which arguments you're still pushing.

[CrashTextDummie]

I feel as if you've treated Thor and I exactly the same in regards to the way you set up cases.

I haven't made cases against Thor or you. I haven't set up cases either. Your idea that I'm doing so is pure conjecture. I don't have, at this point in time, any plans of making a push against you. At no point during this game did I have such plans. I did consider making a push against Thor at the the time of my Smargaret unvote. I have now decided against it.

As I said, the stage has been set for a Thor lynch.

How and by whom has the stage been set for a Thor lynch?

Pushing it at that point in time, when we had absolutely zero information, and where it would be impossible to look for associations is scummy. It's the same kind of reasoning that scum will self hammer to prevent town from gaining more information on the team.

Given Zekrom's complete and utter failure to cooperate, I don't see it as unreasonable from a town pespective to go "let's just lynch him and be done with it". Zekrom's play was so awkward that I don't think any meaningful associative tells can be gleamed from it, and I doubt extending the day further would have changed that.

Are you trying to tell me that your "Hey Thor, you're on the wrong track! Come join me on the side of justice!" is not any sort of buddying?

Given that buddying involves appeasement and trying to get on someone's good side, I don't think calling him out on bad reads qualifies, no.

[CrashTextDummie]

@smarg

- Do you feel your answers so far have adequately addressed 884 and 885, as to the specifics of those questions?

Yeah, I do. The townread on Zek wasn't so much anything he posted as it was when (in the context of everything else being posted early in the game) he posted it. The questions were to try and GET reads in the first place on the other players (because no, I didn't have to assume thor/bulba/porkens town to get zek town, and if you'd actually read the dang post that I keep quoting and quoting and quoting, you'd see that).

Bulba is town. Scum is probably antihero/PV; CTD looks like (wrong) town, even if that unvote was weird and scummy. Thor is town, but I'm less confident of this than I am in my Bulba read.

Right on queue!

Answers please:

I'm objecting to PV misrepping me.

Please point out where PV has misrepped you. As in maliciously tried to paint you in a scummy light.

cxinlee is massively antitown. Post content or don't post, but posting just for the sake of hearing yourself type is essentially doing the prod dodge thing. Scorpion is town. If one of the thor/porkens/bulbazak mess or zekrom is scum, then the other one isn't - I don't see scum trying to distract from distancing like that. Actually, if thor/porkens/bulbazak are town,then zek probably is too because scum want mislynches, and those don't happen if scum draw attention to themselves by blatantly not commenting.

That said, wtf? RVS is not inherently protown.

VOTE: cxin. Have opinions. Express them.

I'm going to ignore the Thor/Porkens/Bulba side of the argument, because it boils down to "whether or not one of these players is scum, Zekrom is town".

Your argument for him being town was therefore "scum want mislynches and those don't happen if scum draw attention to themselves by blatantly not commenting".

I would say that cxinlee was drawing attention to herself by blatantly not commenting. She most definitely wasn't pushing for any mislynches.

Do you disagree with this assessment?

[Thor665]

The game you noted stuff from was...really far down the list.

Newbie 1481, Open 465, Open 463. 3rd game down the list. Are you going anywhere with this?

Well...let's see, you cited Open 473.

By my count that's...56th down the list.
56th.
I may have miscounted though - give or take, I dunno, 2. Let's call it 50. I did skip all the non-games. Let's presume I'm scum, or in multi scum half the time, and toss in some extras too, just in case.
Have you read, say, 20 games of mine?

"CTD is lying about reading my games." Disproven. "CTD is lying about not having read my wall." To what end? "CTD is lying about why he picked the games he read." It's evident that I have read those games, so again why would I have to come up with a lie about my method of choosing?

I still think you're lying about it. I think you read my post and provided very quick and very shallow reads of random games of mine.
You can prove me wrong by posting your notes of all the games read from the most recent down to at least Open 473.
The longer it takes you to post your notes the less likely I'll believe you.

Yes, I am avoiding posting my case on you like I asked.
Deal with it.
Post the notes.
Liar.

[Thor665]

Would you like to claim that I just pulled that out of a hat?

For the record - yes.

[T S O]

Back from V/LA, content coming!

[jasonT1981]

Day 3 Vote Count 11

smargaret 3 - T S O,PeregrineV,CrashTextDummie
CrashTextDummy 2 - Bulbazak,Thor665,
PeregrineV 1 - smargaret
Bulbazak 1 - BROseidon,

Not Voting

AntiHero
penguin_alien

V/LA

PereV - March 28-30
AntiHero - 29th

with 9 alive it takes 5 to lynch

(expired on 2014-04-02 16:40:08)

till Day 3 Deadline

[PeregrineV]

Bulba is town. Scum is probably antihero/PV; CTD looks like (wrong) town, even if that unvote was weird and scummy. Thor is town, but I'm less confident of this than I am in my Bulba read.

Penguin read?

[Bulbazak]

I feel as if you've treated Thor and I exactly the same in regards to the way you set up cases.

I haven't made cases against Thor or you. I haven't set up cases either. Your idea that I'm doing so is pure conjecture. I don't have, at this point in time, any plans of making a push against you. At no point during this game did I have such plans. I did consider making a push against Thor at the the time of my Smargaret unvote. I have now decided against it.

I must have imagined all that posturing then.

How and by whom has the stage been set for a Thor lynch?

There's been a lot of paranoia regarding Thor not being NK'd. I'd say that scum could use that to get a Thor lynch.

Given Zekrom's complete and utter failure to cooperate, I don't see it as unreasonable from a town pespective to go "let's just lynch him and be done with it". Zekrom's play was so awkward that I don't think any meaningful associative tells can be gleamed from it, and I doubt extending the day further would have changed that.

We could have gotten more information on other players, and therefore not have been at day 1 part 2 after the lynch, which was what Bro was pushing.

[CrashTextDummie]

I must have imagined all that posturing then.

Yes, you must have.

There's been a lot of paranoia regarding Thor not being NK'd. I'd say that scum could use that to get a Thor lynch.

Please cite this lot of paranoia.

We could have gotten more information on other players, and therefore not have been at day 1 part 2 after the lynch, which was what Bro was pushing.

Seeing as we lynched scum, I don't consider that a bad thing.

Could I get your thoughts on Thor's attack against me, please?

[CrashTextDummie]

Well...let's see, you cited Open 473.

By my count that's...56th down the list.

I cited Open 463: Black Flag Nightless.

Count again.

I didn't take any notes unless it was pertinent to my search, and as I've already mentioned, I didn't find anything in the newbies I read.

The only other post I noted down was ISO #33, also from Open 463:

Hurm. Looking over stuff Cerulean is actually obv. town unless Piggy is scum.
Cerulean can still answer my questions though because the slot strikes me as pedantic and it will amuse me.

Unvote: Cerulean
Vote: Voided

Let's do a Piggy counter wagon for lulz.

Which is you using associative reasoning to clear a player, but the situation is not the same and so I dismissed it as evidence that you were lying.

[Thor665]

Well...let's see, you cited Open 473.

By my count that's...56th down the list.

I cited Open 463: Black Flag Nightless.

Oh...

Open 473 has mild evidence to support your claimed stance of committing to town reads only conditional to a flip.

So this was a mistype on your part?

I didn't take any notes unless it was pertinent to my search, and as I've already mentioned, I didn't find anything in the newbies I read.

So you didn't take notes unless...you took notes?

And you got two quotes only, and opted to note one.
Eh...

Okay, well, answer about 473 above and then tell me what you've concluded with all this study you've done that actually supports that I'm telling the truth about how I scumhunt (shock of shocking shocks right there).

[Thor665]

Wait, and you noted two quotes, and only two, and they disproved your conclusion...meaning like, literally, you only even found me talking about associative tells twice since you apparently only noted stuff wherein I didn't do what you were looking to find me doing? DO I have that right - like you noted down all the disproving moments as well as proving moments and only got two and one was disproving and the other was a 'not quite the same'? (the ones you noted in your posts 999 and 1040 respectively)

[CrashTextDummie]

So this was a mistype on your part?

Yes. If you actually did a bare minimum of thinking along and actually reading my posts, we could cut down on a lot of clutter.

I wrote #999 at 4:45 in the morning, for the record, before you want to pounce on the fact that I mistyped.

So you didn't take notes unless...you took notes?

And you got two quotes only, and opted to note one.

.

I took notes only on the subject that was the expressed purpose of me reading the ISOs, imagine that.

I noted three posts from that game, actually, the third being ISO #117 where I thought you cleared N because Jesse (whom you scumread) voted him, but then when reading in context figured out that you were town reading N for previous involvement in a scum wagon. The purpose of #999 was to disprove your claim that I was lying about reading the ISOs, not to share a comprehensive account of what I found.

What I've concluded from this exercise is that it's plausible that Thor is telling the truth about how he scumhunts and that his treatment of Smarg here is therefore not a scumtell for him.

Again, where are you going with this? I can't tell anymore which part or parts you are calling a lie and why you treat any of it as indicative of CTD-scum.

[CrashTextDummie]

Mod: Prod PA and Antihero please. I realize the latter is V/LA but he's been gone for a solid 5 days now and needs to know he should get his ass in her ASAP.

[penguin_alien]

VOTE: Antihero

Since my vote from before isn't showing up.

And I know I wall sometimes, but my god the CTD-Thor stuff is dry. I'll go bribe myself with chocolate long enough to read it while caring.

[Antihero]

VOTE: CTD

butt's in here

[CrashTextDummie]

Antihero just earned himself a whole bouquet of scum points.

Given the choice between putting Smargaret at L-1 (a lynch he "approves of" of a slot he's wanted dead since he replaced in, yet only mildly attacked throughout) and putting me at L-2 (a "gut scum" read based on Thor interactions), he went for the latter.

Scum move.

[T S O]

VOTE: CTD

butt's in here

This is really fucking bad.

Guys, I'm feeling incredibly apathetic atm and I'm not sure I can make myself post what I said I would. If I ABSOLUTELY HAVE TO RIGHT NOW NO QUESTIONS then I will but other than that, maybs not.

I'm like this in all my games atm, I just don't get why. I think I'm bipolar.

[T S O]

Actually, no fuck that, I'm doing it.