Xenosaga Mafia (Game Over)

[zMuffinMan]

like i wasn't calling her scum because of interactions with flipped scum, i was saying there's a lack of strong stances and reads from her this game

SHE was the one who brought up flandre and suggested that i was wrong about this, then i went back over her posts and showed that no, she actually didn't take a strong stance on flandre and had very little interaction with flandre

the flandre thing isn't important - it's the fact that i noticed her play for the entire game has basically been coasting with a complete lack of read progression

[zMuffinMan]

also 3495 was a summary, only meant to show that her claims are false (and she's been completely unwilling to go back and quote anything to back up her claims if they had any merit), and yet she still persists in calling me scum for those reasons

as scum, i can see plenty of reason for her to create noise, ignore things, and insist she has a point that isn't being listened to, but as town? i've shown she's blatantly wrong and she isn't reassessing or factoring it into her read. if you think that means nothing about her alignment, where is the town motivation in that line of thinking?

[Iecerint]

OK. I guess I find the specific misrepresentation of history with flipped scum relatively problematic, so I put extra weight onto that detail in my head.

If you antagonized her ahead of time, I doubt she would think very critically about what you told her, even as town. I think mollie will basically attack anyone who attacks her in a very paranoid fashion if she is town. My impression is based on a small number of mafia games on the site and also meeting her in person. She also likes to identify a single suspect and really attack them repeatedly, often because they attacked her, and the previously-discussed paranoia phenomenon becomes a positive feedback loop for her.

I do think that the general claim that she has not really had any dramatic moments in the game is probably a scumtell for her, though, maybe (cf., not taking strong stances, because townMollie stances usually create drama). I haven't actually played with mollie-Scum on the site that I can think of, but this would probably fit with meatworld mollie a little bit.

[zMuffinMan]

i don't think i really antagonised her ahead of time, though

unless you just mean that i antagonised her after she brought up things which i saw to be blatantly false? in which case, yeah i guess that happened, but that doesn't really excuse her bringing them up in the first place? the point then becomes why she even brought those things up when they're not true, and could be shown to be not true to anyone who's read the game (like, say, sangres pointing out that she was completely off base in regards to her accusation re: me sheeping their reads)

[Iecerint]

If you did not antagonize her and she ignored facts despite that, then I both understand why you would find that scummy and think it might be valid.

If you did antagonize her and make her defensive, then the act of her ignoring the substance of what you were saying is not an additional scumtell for her (though the actual facts presented might still be valid).

In your summary post, you go so far as to say that she is so bad at the game that you are inferring her to be scum as a relative indication of respect, you only blame her and have no remorse if she flips town, etc., so I am pretty sure that antagonism happened at some point, though I'm not sure about the chronology. You know it better than I do. Depending upon the chronology, this may be new information about mollie that might be relevant to how you should infer her alignment.

Mollie remembering a better version of her previous posts upon spontaneously being challenged about them is probably more town than scum from her IMO. The only caveat here is that she remembered the better version specifically re: interactions with flipped scum. Instead of being townMollie, that is something I could maybe see mollie doing either way (but still relevant information if it fits a bigger pattern that is most consistent with scumMollie).

[zMuffinMan]

well, i mean, i antagonised her after she brought up stuff that was blatantly untrue, but that was because she was insisting it was true when i'd shown it wasn't

but before that? no. up until D5 she was calling me town, and then i said i don't think she's town D5 and she suddenly changed her tune and decided i'm scum for ignoring her and sheeping sangres. now, i hadn't been ignoring her up until that point and my initial response to this was literally me saying "wat" - and she replied to this saying i shouldn't play dumb because i'd been ignoring her all game or something

[zMuffinMan]

every time I ask him about it he snarls and gets snarky like he won't let me anywhere near him

wat

you've been doing it all game stahp pretending that you haven't.

and you are all like "I do not have the warm glow that you guyz do about mollie lets lynch her" with zero interaction and not to mention that you have yet to state reasons

and you never answered my question *shocker*

[zMuffinMan]

ftr, she'd asked me about sheeping sangres two times prior to that, and i responded to both of them. admittedly, the first time i responded to it was a *shrug* because i didn't think she was serious, but the second time was an actual response explaining it - and nacho also explained it to her, soooooo yeah

i mean you can just read the start of D4 and see how it played out if you want?

[zMuffinMan]

D5 even

[zMuffinMan]

i don't think i was being at all antagonistic except when she had basically been proven to be wrong and still insisted she had a case

so yeah, i called her bad if she's actually town and didn't see the problem there

but i didn't antagonise her before she started going on and on about bullshit that (a) wasn't true, (b) she refused to back up, and (c) she refused to acknowledge was wrong after been shown exactly why it was wrong

[Iecerint]

well, i mean, i antagonised her after she brought up stuff that was blatantly untrue, but that was because she was insisting it was true when i'd shown it wasn't

but before that? no. up until D5 she was calling me town, and then i said i don't think she's town D5 and she suddenly changed her tune and decided i'm scum for ignoring her and sheeping sangres. now, i hadn't been ignoring her up until that point and my initial response to this was literally me saying "wat" - and she replied to this saying i shouldn't play dumb because i'd been ignoring her all game or something

This sounds like town Mollie to me, just going purely from your description. She got defensive about her posting record and attacked you when you called her scum.

i mean you can just read the start of D4 and see how it played out if you want?

OK.

[zMuffinMan]

you don't

need

to think

liar

LAL

you really don't give a shit who gets lynched do you

VOTE: muffina

oh yeah i'm going back over D5 myself now, and i found where she initially voted me

she took a post that was obviously not a serious post and voted me for this reason

i didn't know if she was being serious here

[zMuffinMan]

you keep saying referring to something borky said or did and for some reason in your mind this clears you!

the only thing that I can think of is what happened in our neighborhood where I asked gooner to quantify his scumread on us.

and that is all I am saying about that.

you have been dogging sangres heels and not really doing any scumhunting of your own.

eta: I have no idea what you are talking about. spit it out cos otherwise it just looks like you are trying to throw up a smokescreen

also this is the first post where i think she really gave reasons for the read reversal on me, i responded to this a couple posts later, pointing out that everything she said here was actually wrong and asked her what scum hunting she'd been doing, and, well, her response was comical

[zMuffinMan]

actually looking back at the stuff i was writing about the deleted QT post and bork's intervention there should be pretty strong evidence for me being town - were i scum using it to push a mislynch, bork intervening there would be kinda dumb. he only intervened because i'm town and wrong about it. possibly also because i'm half-right and it was deleted by a scum player but i'm wrong about it relating to this game.

[zMuffinMan]

also don't think i'd push that angle if i knew it was town who wrote that deleted QT post

so there's that, too

but whatever

[Iecerint]

Could you summarize the deleted QT post fiasco? Or did bork ban discussion during his intervention?

[zMuffinMan]

uh im not sure if it can still be discussed in detail but it's mostly on the page of the last quote i linked (including bork's intervention)

[zMuffinMan]

2959 in particular

[zMuffinMan]

and bork saying "no bad muffin stop doing that" at the bottom of the page

[Skullduggery]

Mollie is townish but after going through cephir's iso mollie wasnt as strong as my other reads.

What did you mean by this, Pidgey?

[Iecerint]

So it seems like maybe someone deleted a post in one of the neighbor threads, and we don't know who.

Have any scum flipped from that particular neighbor thread? Because, ye know. The easy inference is that scum used the wrong QT.

Though the Town Neighbor Mason business could also account for that.

[pidgey]

I know i said i was gonna post yersterday but, real life.

Anyway, ill answer that in a bit, skull

[zMuffinMan]

@iece

bork said deleted post had nothing to do with this game, he also said no discussing it - i only mentioned it because it was a thing that happened at the start of D5 where i was rereading.

[pidgey]

Gah.

After checkng cephir's iso yet again i find myself greatly divided in mollie. I again think that slot is town, i dunno, the cephir call outs seem weird as fuck in there.

Also, its kinda weird how cephir had mastin as the biggest scum read too, dunno what to feel about that.

I think we are all autopiloting this game too hard. Other than ice being jailkept and action dan being followed no one really has an alibi besides like.... words.

Id like to propose a stupid exercise.
"Everyone tell me why you'd debate yourself as town, contentwise"

[zMuffinMan]

Other than ice being jailkept and action dan being followed no one really has an alibi besides like.... words

it's almost like...

it's almost like this is a game of mafia or something?

what the fuck kind of backwards universe have we stepped into?